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	<title>Comments on: Musings on Uttara Kanda Part 2</title>
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		<title>By: xaiver</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-335888</link>
		<dc:creator>xaiver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would like to know what did mahamta gandhi view of this part of the ramayana?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to know what did mahamta gandhi view of this part of the ramayana?</p>
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		<title>By: ps</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-311656</link>
		<dc:creator>ps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 00:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-311656</guid>
		<description>Whether Ramaya has happend whether Rama lived for 1000s of years or only 100s of years will give us nothing, but another excitement of victory to our curiosity. I don&#039;t defy people&#039;s curiosity but Ramayana offers more. It teaches us obedience, strength, piousness, how greed is distructive, how lust kills a country, how sefl control and belief in righteousness wins.

We should pay more attention to what we can learn and practice rathern than wasting time in thinking if Rama is an Aryan or a Drawidian. We our selves (each of us) not sure of our origin. India was once most flurishing country to which may ethinic backgroungs (like present US) came to dwell in. We had very mixed and highly evolved civilization. So how can you say if which one is aryan, drawidian, indian, american, african ...Please don&#039;t try to loose the essence of Ramayana which is veda itself, please don&#039;t devoid yourself of the values it is bestowing. We should be grateful that such writing is still avaialable for us to read.

I will quote this for all great works even if written in Nothern Pole or Southern Pole, knowledge of any kind is blessing to me ..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether Ramaya has happend whether Rama lived for 1000s of years or only 100s of years will give us nothing, but another excitement of victory to our curiosity. I don&#8217;t defy people&#8217;s curiosity but Ramayana offers more. It teaches us obedience, strength, piousness, how greed is distructive, how lust kills a country, how sefl control and belief in righteousness wins.</p>
<p>We should pay more attention to what we can learn and practice rathern than wasting time in thinking if Rama is an Aryan or a Drawidian. We our selves (each of us) not sure of our origin. India was once most flurishing country to which may ethinic backgroungs (like present US) came to dwell in. We had very mixed and highly evolved civilization. So how can you say if which one is aryan, drawidian, indian, american, african &#8230;Please don&#8217;t try to loose the essence of Ramayana which is veda itself, please don&#8217;t devoid yourself of the values it is bestowing. We should be grateful that such writing is still avaialable for us to read.</p>
<p>I will quote this for all great works even if written in Nothern Pole or Southern Pole, knowledge of any kind is blessing to me ..</p>
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		<title>By: Vinay</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-311279</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 18:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-311279</guid>
		<description>Ramayana is a real story that happened in Treta Yuga.

What about all the places mentioned in the Ramayana.
All places mentioned in the Ramayan can be found today and are similar to the descriptions found in Ramayana.
The places mentioned in Ramayana and Ramcharitmanas eg. Ayodhya, Sri Lanka are real places and the journey of Rama from Ayodhya to Sri Lanka, as depicted, appears to be real. 


What about the Bridge?
Lord Rama, Lakshman, Hanuman and all of their monkey friends/soldiers built a stone bridge from South India to Sri Lanka. Nasa Scientists have discovered (some time ago) the bridge that Rama had built is really there, exactly where the story says it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam&#039;s_Bridge

Some real Ramayana pictures can be found at 
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=859912</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ramayana is a real story that happened in Treta Yuga.</p>
<p>What about all the places mentioned in the Ramayana.<br />
All places mentioned in the Ramayan can be found today and are similar to the descriptions found in Ramayana.<br />
The places mentioned in Ramayana and Ramcharitmanas eg. Ayodhya, Sri Lanka are real places and the journey of Rama from Ayodhya to Sri Lanka, as depicted, appears to be real. </p>
<p>What about the Bridge?<br />
Lord Rama, Lakshman, Hanuman and all of their monkey friends/soldiers built a stone bridge from South India to Sri Lanka. Nasa Scientists have discovered (some time ago) the bridge that Rama had built is really there, exactly where the story says it is.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam</a>&#8217;s_Bridge</p>
<p>Some real Ramayana pictures can be found at<br />
<a href="http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=859912" rel="nofollow">http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=859912</a></p>
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		<title>By: reason &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Re: &#8216;HONOR KILLING&#8217; IS ABSOLUTELY ISLAMIC</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-223874</link>
		<dc:creator>reason &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Re: &#8216;HONOR KILLING&#8217; IS ABSOLUTELY ISLAMIC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 04:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-223874</guid>
		<description>[...] From: Wanderer tripurantaka@yahoo.com wrote: On Jan 25, 8:30 pm, ram19&#8230;@gmail.com wrote: Listen, Einstein: I am intimately familiar with Hinduism! So, please purge yourself of these tiresome assumptions. Yes, I am aware of tolerance within Hinduism. That tolerance is wholly lacking in your posts and those of your fellow Hindu fundamentalists. I am incredulous that you can even say &#8220;tolerance&#8221; without choking, given that in your previous message you advocated the extermination of Christianity and Islam!. Man, I am happy you studied Hinduism. Did you study Christianity also and find out Jeezuz was most probably the illegitimate son of teenage Mary, with either a relationship with a Roman soldier or raped by him. He also made statements advocating violence and killings of those who do not follow him or his disciples. Do you also know that Mohammad married his own daughter-in-law, had sex with nine year old Ayesha when he was 53, he thought of marrying her when she was a baby,, had sex with Marya the slave in Hafsa&#8217;s bed ( one of his several wives- he was permitted 11 by &#8220;allah&#8221; as an exception to four for all other men), advocated murder of those who disobeyed him etc etc. Do you think these are religions? Do not say Hinduism is also similar. If you do, I will challenge you and ask you to show scriptural evidence or disappear and study moreUmm&#8230;.okay&#8230;..Rama was a minor princeling whose wife was abducted by a neighboring ruler and most probably serially raped over a period of months and years[going by your rules of evidence]. Rama set out to recover his wife, and was helped to do so by tribals who he then referred to as monkeys. He gets his wife back, but proceeds to isolate her, suspecting her fidelity in captivity, or maybe he just thought she was damaged goods. Then he actually banishes her to live in a forest like some homeless primitive. Unable to bear this punishment, she commits suicide by jumping into a nice big fire that his brother builds. Do you think a man who behaved in this dishonorable and cowardly manner is a god?You are right, hinduism is not similar. It is very puzzling to anyone who dispassionately looks at it.Here&#8217;s a comment from &#8220;Srini&#8221;, found at http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/&#8221;An off-line thought from my side: I don [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] From: Wanderer <a href="mailto:tripurantaka@yahoo.com">tripurantaka@yahoo.com</a> wrote: On Jan 25, 8:30 pm, ram19&#8230;@gmail.com wrote: Listen, Einstein: I am intimately familiar with Hinduism! So, please purge yourself of these tiresome assumptions. Yes, I am aware of tolerance within Hinduism. That tolerance is wholly lacking in your posts and those of your fellow Hindu fundamentalists. I am incredulous that you can even say &#8220;tolerance&#8221; without choking, given that in your previous message you advocated the extermination of Christianity and Islam!. Man, I am happy you studied Hinduism. Did you study Christianity also and find out Jeezuz was most probably the illegitimate son of teenage Mary, with either a relationship with a Roman soldier or raped by him. He also made statements advocating violence and killings of those who do not follow him or his disciples. Do you also know that Mohammad married his own daughter-in-law, had sex with nine year old Ayesha when he was 53, he thought of marrying her when she was a baby,, had sex with Marya the slave in Hafsa&#8217;s bed ( one of his several wives- he was permitted 11 by &#8220;allah&#8221; as an exception to four for all other men), advocated murder of those who disobeyed him etc etc. Do you think these are religions? Do not say Hinduism is also similar. If you do, I will challenge you and ask you to show scriptural evidence or disappear and study moreUmm&#8230;.okay&#8230;..Rama was a minor princeling whose wife was abducted by a neighboring ruler and most probably serially raped over a period of months and years[going by your rules of evidence]. Rama set out to recover his wife, and was helped to do so by tribals who he then referred to as monkeys. He gets his wife back, but proceeds to isolate her, suspecting her fidelity in captivity, or maybe he just thought she was damaged goods. Then he actually banishes her to live in a forest like some homeless primitive. Unable to bear this punishment, she commits suicide by jumping into a nice big fire that his brother builds. Do you think a man who behaved in this dishonorable and cowardly manner is a god?You are right, hinduism is not similar. It is very puzzling to anyone who dispassionately looks at it.Here&#8217;s a comment from &#8220;Srini&#8221;, found at <a href="http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/&#8221;An" rel="nofollow">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/&#8221;An</a> off-line thought from my side: I don [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vivek Iyer</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-205610</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivek Iyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-205610</guid>
		<description>My compliments on your post. Perhaps you are aware of- and as puzzled as I am about- a recent tendency amongst Western intellectuals (e.g. Fred halliday, Karen Armstrong, etc) to ascribe to the &#039;Hindu fundamentalists&#039; (whatever those might be) a desire to &#039;turn Lord Rama into a vengeful Father God&#039; - i.e. Yahweh- and thus impose an Abrahamic Monotheism on a previously heteronomously (ie. superstitiously) polytheistic populace. According to this view, the demand that India should be called &#039;Bharat&#039;is also a sinister part of the conspiracy because the Bharat after whom our country is named is not (as you and I innocently assumed) the son of Sakuntala but &#039;the step-brother of Lord Rama&#039; (this last piece of idiocy from our own beloved Gayatri Spivak Chakroboty who claims to know Sanskrit and be of Brahmin caste! If you don&#039;t believe me, check her &#039;Critique of Post Colonial Reason)
Clearly these guys are getting their facts from some fatuous book our leftist Historians put out at the time of the Babri Masjid controversy. Indeed, the nonsense written and believed about Lord Rama is our rather than some foreigners fault. 
The uttara kanda portion of the Ramayana is not really a puzzle. What is puzzling is how a previous generation of great Indians totally got it wrong. Thus Rajaji says that the Uttara Kanda is not canonical but perhaps an interpolation reflecting the tragic lives of our womenfolk- i.e. Rajaji is accepting the Colonialist view that Hinduism is basically about making women miserable, just as Gandhiji accepted Katherine Mayo&#039;s view that India&#039;s main problem- and the reason it could not legitimately take up arms to liberate itself- was MASTURBATION. Only the peasants toiling in the fields- she tells us- have not ruined themselves utterly through self-abuse- but only because the ryots under the benevolent British Raj are too emaciated and undernourished to muster up an ejaculation.
What is the key utterance of the uttara kanda? It is this. The barber says &#039;I am not Rama&#039;. But if the barber is not Rama then Ramrajya is just Rama&#039;s Raj not democracy. So long as there are two moralities- one for the Ruler another for the Subjects- there is no democracy. True Ram&#039;s throne was nothing but the love of the people. Tulsi tells us-
Danda jatinha kara bheda jahan nartaka nrtya samaaja
Jeetahu manahi sunia asa Raamacandra ken raaja!
(Much prattles the Machiavellian parrot of Stick &amp; Carrot, Divide and Rule
But Loveâ€™s plural dance of Ego-conquest was Ramrajyaâ€™s only tool!)
How then could Lord Rama change the husband&#039;s suspicious nature with respect to his wife?- i.e how stop the fool from destroying his own happiness? How change Society&#039;s attitude to the return of the wandered wife? (What if it was not your sister-in-law but your sister who had been abducted or gone astray?) Since Lord Rama was the one most beloved, he had to inflict this pain on himself so that through anukrosha all beings could advance. This is the King as pharmakos- the scapegoat- who takes on all the evils of the realm so as to free his subjects from them. However the Greek and Hebrew pharmakos just ended with the slaughter of some dumb animal. The true pharmakos is to take on suffering not for death- death is easy, ask any suicide bomber- but for the sake of knowledge, for true knowledge- as Aeschylus saw- comes only through suffering.
But what is this saving knowledge? The answer addresses the most basic anxiety humans have- what Freud called the &#039;fort da&#039; problem- object permanence &amp; abandonment issues- the baby&#039;s anxiety that the mother ceases to exist when not visible. Baby&#039;s anger at the mother when she returns- baby&#039;s refusal to play and turning angrily away for not having forgiven the mother for ceasing to exist.
Now Indian poets had long ago made the equation between the viyogini (woman separated from lover) and the yogini (woman in mystic trance) both do not eat, are turned away from the input of the senses, have single pointed concentration etc.
Thus emotional dualism is the same as intellectual monism. Puranic and Upanishadic Religion cash out as each other. 
Why is this important? It means there is a bridge between absence and presence, existence and non-existence. Thus Ramrajya does not depend on whether Rama lives or dies, is exiled or enthroned. real or imaginary.
 Uttara Kanda is political. Why? Because it prescribes absoulute reciprocity and symmetry between all agents. There are no priviliged frames of reference or points of view. To quote Brahma Sutra aphorism 3.3.37- vyatihaaraha, viÅ›inÅŸanthi hiitaravat- â€˜Scripture prescribes reciprocity between worshipper and worshippedâ€™
From the point of view of both information theory and our own mimamsa- memory, love, and &#039;identity&#039; are disequilibrium phenomena- but this negentropy is life and so says Valmiki, though presently breath-blinded, the mirror of salvation.
To end let me quote Aziz Mian Qawwall&#039;s &#039;Ram tera gorakh dandha&#039;- &#039;Aaa Ram! Aaram.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My compliments on your post. Perhaps you are aware of- and as puzzled as I am about- a recent tendency amongst Western intellectuals (e.g. Fred halliday, Karen Armstrong, etc) to ascribe to the &#8216;Hindu fundamentalists&#8217; (whatever those might be) a desire to &#8216;turn Lord Rama into a vengeful Father God&#8217; &#8211; i.e. Yahweh- and thus impose an Abrahamic Monotheism on a previously heteronomously (ie. superstitiously) polytheistic populace. According to this view, the demand that India should be called &#8216;Bharat&#8217;is also a sinister part of the conspiracy because the Bharat after whom our country is named is not (as you and I innocently assumed) the son of Sakuntala but &#8216;the step-brother of Lord Rama&#8217; (this last piece of idiocy from our own beloved Gayatri Spivak Chakroboty who claims to know Sanskrit and be of Brahmin caste! If you don&#8217;t believe me, check her &#8216;Critique of Post Colonial Reason)<br />
Clearly these guys are getting their facts from some fatuous book our leftist Historians put out at the time of the Babri Masjid controversy. Indeed, the nonsense written and believed about Lord Rama is our rather than some foreigners fault.<br />
The uttara kanda portion of the Ramayana is not really a puzzle. What is puzzling is how a previous generation of great Indians totally got it wrong. Thus Rajaji says that the Uttara Kanda is not canonical but perhaps an interpolation reflecting the tragic lives of our womenfolk- i.e. Rajaji is accepting the Colonialist view that Hinduism is basically about making women miserable, just as Gandhiji accepted Katherine Mayo&#8217;s view that India&#8217;s main problem- and the reason it could not legitimately take up arms to liberate itself- was MASTURBATION. Only the peasants toiling in the fields- she tells us- have not ruined themselves utterly through self-abuse- but only because the ryots under the benevolent British Raj are too emaciated and undernourished to muster up an ejaculation.<br />
What is the key utterance of the uttara kanda? It is this. The barber says &#8216;I am not Rama&#8217;. But if the barber is not Rama then Ramrajya is just Rama&#8217;s Raj not democracy. So long as there are two moralities- one for the Ruler another for the Subjects- there is no democracy. True Ram&#8217;s throne was nothing but the love of the people. Tulsi tells us-<br />
Danda jatinha kara bheda jahan nartaka nrtya samaaja<br />
Jeetahu manahi sunia asa Raamacandra ken raaja!<br />
(Much prattles the Machiavellian parrot of Stick &amp; Carrot, Divide and Rule<br />
But Loveâ€™s plural dance of Ego-conquest was Ramrajyaâ€™s only tool!)<br />
How then could Lord Rama change the husband&#8217;s suspicious nature with respect to his wife?- i.e how stop the fool from destroying his own happiness? How change Society&#8217;s attitude to the return of the wandered wife? (What if it was not your sister-in-law but your sister who had been abducted or gone astray?) Since Lord Rama was the one most beloved, he had to inflict this pain on himself so that through anukrosha all beings could advance. This is the King as pharmakos- the scapegoat- who takes on all the evils of the realm so as to free his subjects from them. However the Greek and Hebrew pharmakos just ended with the slaughter of some dumb animal. The true pharmakos is to take on suffering not for death- death is easy, ask any suicide bomber- but for the sake of knowledge, for true knowledge- as Aeschylus saw- comes only through suffering.<br />
But what is this saving knowledge? The answer addresses the most basic anxiety humans have- what Freud called the &#8216;fort da&#8217; problem- object permanence &amp; abandonment issues- the baby&#8217;s anxiety that the mother ceases to exist when not visible. Baby&#8217;s anger at the mother when she returns- baby&#8217;s refusal to play and turning angrily away for not having forgiven the mother for ceasing to exist.<br />
Now Indian poets had long ago made the equation between the viyogini (woman separated from lover) and the yogini (woman in mystic trance) both do not eat, are turned away from the input of the senses, have single pointed concentration etc.<br />
Thus emotional dualism is the same as intellectual monism. Puranic and Upanishadic Religion cash out as each other.<br />
Why is this important? It means there is a bridge between absence and presence, existence and non-existence. Thus Ramrajya does not depend on whether Rama lives or dies, is exiled or enthroned. real or imaginary.<br />
 Uttara Kanda is political. Why? Because it prescribes absoulute reciprocity and symmetry between all agents. There are no priviliged frames of reference or points of view. To quote Brahma Sutra aphorism 3.3.37- vyatihaaraha, viÅ›inÅŸanthi hiitaravat- â€˜Scripture prescribes reciprocity between worshipper and worshippedâ€™<br />
From the point of view of both information theory and our own mimamsa- memory, love, and &#8216;identity&#8217; are disequilibrium phenomena- but this negentropy is life and so says Valmiki, though presently breath-blinded, the mirror of salvation.<br />
To end let me quote Aziz Mian Qawwall&#8217;s &#8216;Ram tera gorakh dandha&#8217;- &#8216;Aaa Ram! Aaram.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: A R MOHAN RAO</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-186771</link>
		<dc:creator>A R MOHAN RAO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-186771</guid>
		<description>MY VIEW:  RAMAYAN IS A MANTRA SHASTRA WHICH AROUSES KUNDALINI WITHN THOSE WHO READ IT REGULARLY.  IT IS NOT A HISTORICAL INCIDENT BUT MORE TO AWAKEN SHAKTI.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO THINK THAT A HUMAN BEING CAN LIVE FOR A PERIOD OF ELEVEN THOUSAND YEARS! AND THAT DASARATHA LIVED FOR 60,0000 YEARS! IT ALL OBVIOUSLY REFERS TO THE 72,000 &#039;NADIS&#039; WHICH GET ACTIVATED WHEN KUNDALINI IS AROUSED.  IT IS SAID THAT THE SETHU IS 10 YOJANAS WIDE AND HUNDRED YOJANAS IN LENGTH. THE AREA WORKS OUT TO 1000 SQ YOJANAS.  THESE NUMBERS 60,000 + 11,000 + 10,000 = 72,000.  THE ABOVE ARGUMENT IS AMPLY SUPPORTED BY THE FACT THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY HUMAN BEING TO LIVE FOR SUCH LONG PERIODS OF TIME. RAMA RAJJYA IS THAT AMICABLE ASTRONOMICAL CORRECTION MADE BY HIM THE EFFECT OF WHICH LASTED FOR 11,000 YEARS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MY VIEW:  RAMAYAN IS A MANTRA SHASTRA WHICH AROUSES KUNDALINI WITHN THOSE WHO READ IT REGULARLY.  IT IS NOT A HISTORICAL INCIDENT BUT MORE TO AWAKEN SHAKTI.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO THINK THAT A HUMAN BEING CAN LIVE FOR A PERIOD OF ELEVEN THOUSAND YEARS! AND THAT DASARATHA LIVED FOR 60,0000 YEARS! IT ALL OBVIOUSLY REFERS TO THE 72,000 &#8216;NADIS&#8217; WHICH GET ACTIVATED WHEN KUNDALINI IS AROUSED.  IT IS SAID THAT THE SETHU IS 10 YOJANAS WIDE AND HUNDRED YOJANAS IN LENGTH. THE AREA WORKS OUT TO 1000 SQ YOJANAS.  THESE NUMBERS 60,000 + 11,000 + 10,000 = 72,000.  THE ABOVE ARGUMENT IS AMPLY SUPPORTED BY THE FACT THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY HUMAN BEING TO LIVE FOR SUCH LONG PERIODS OF TIME. RAMA RAJJYA IS THAT AMICABLE ASTRONOMICAL CORRECTION MADE BY HIM THE EFFECT OF WHICH LASTED FOR 11,000 YEARS!</p>
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		<title>By: ramnath</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-166421</link>
		<dc:creator>ramnath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-166421</guid>
		<description>Ram Rajya?

A ruler is prone to comments from all quarters.

And to react to comments is not intelligent action, for any human being; more so for a ruler!

To forsake the subjects and retreat to forests, itself was a callous move for any caring ruler.

Perhaps it is great move from the point of view of Rama, as a son of Dashrath. But he forfeits his responsibility to rule over Ayodhya simply by forsaking his city and its citizens.

And where does Ram Rajya and royal dharma fit within all this?

He was incapable of protecting his wife, knowing fully well about the magical deer that roamed and enticed her.

And to reclaim his one woman, he waged a battle that saw many women, become widows with broken homes.

And even after that his wife had to come through  fire to prove her purity.

And in spite of all this, he again banished the pregnant woman and abandoned her in a forest.

To top it all, he again lost his sacrificial horse, waged a battle with his own sons, and saw his army decimated and defeated.

Upon knowing that the boys were his own progeny, he wanted the guys to leave their mother and accompany him home to live as his sons.

How much more can a sensible woman take from a husband?

The vexed woman took her life in landscape terrains, after the continued shoddy treatment. 

And historians poetically brought in &#039;mother earth&#039; the Bhumi Devi.

It is a tradition even today that Valmiki&#039;s Uttara kanda is not to be read in  homes. 

One who wishes to browse Uttara kanda has to stay in a temple, finish reading, have a cleansing bath, feed the poor and only then return home. 

So much for Ram and Maryada Purushottam&#039;s intelligent, sensitive  life!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ram Rajya?</p>
<p>A ruler is prone to comments from all quarters.</p>
<p>And to react to comments is not intelligent action, for any human being; more so for a ruler!</p>
<p>To forsake the subjects and retreat to forests, itself was a callous move for any caring ruler.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is great move from the point of view of Rama, as a son of Dashrath. But he forfeits his responsibility to rule over Ayodhya simply by forsaking his city and its citizens.</p>
<p>And where does Ram Rajya and royal dharma fit within all this?</p>
<p>He was incapable of protecting his wife, knowing fully well about the magical deer that roamed and enticed her.</p>
<p>And to reclaim his one woman, he waged a battle that saw many women, become widows with broken homes.</p>
<p>And even after that his wife had to come through  fire to prove her purity.</p>
<p>And in spite of all this, he again banished the pregnant woman and abandoned her in a forest.</p>
<p>To top it all, he again lost his sacrificial horse, waged a battle with his own sons, and saw his army decimated and defeated.</p>
<p>Upon knowing that the boys were his own progeny, he wanted the guys to leave their mother and accompany him home to live as his sons.</p>
<p>How much more can a sensible woman take from a husband?</p>
<p>The vexed woman took her life in landscape terrains, after the continued shoddy treatment. </p>
<p>And historians poetically brought in &#8216;mother earth&#8217; the Bhumi Devi.</p>
<p>It is a tradition even today that Valmiki&#8217;s Uttara kanda is not to be read in  homes. </p>
<p>One who wishes to browse Uttara kanda has to stay in a temple, finish reading, have a cleansing bath, feed the poor and only then return home. </p>
<p>So much for Ram and Maryada Purushottam&#8217;s intelligent, sensitive  life!</p>
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		<title>By: Arjun</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-165380</link>
		<dc:creator>Arjun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 06:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-165380</guid>
		<description>Uttar Ramayana brings out the picture of an ideal king... not an ideal husband because a person can give only secondary importance to his/her elations after he/she becomes a king/queen. As a king Rama banished Seeta. but as a husband he lived like a tapasvi(ascetic) in the palace for10 years, thus sharing the sorrws of his wife. He shunned the practice of remarriage even when he had to perfrom the Ashwamedha Yagna. here i would like to mentioned the male hypocrisy of our society, which lays stress on a woman being a &#039;pati vrata&#039; like Seeta. The same people never higlight the fact that Ram was a follower of Patni Vrat- being loyal and devoted to one&#039;s wife. A beautiful potrayal of uttar Ramayan (not perfect) is available in vijay Bhatt&#039;s Ram Rajya and NTR&#039;s Lav Kush. the former was the only movie to be watched by Mahatma Gandhi in his lifetime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uttar Ramayana brings out the picture of an ideal king&#8230; not an ideal husband because a person can give only secondary importance to his/her elations after he/she becomes a king/queen. As a king Rama banished Seeta. but as a husband he lived like a tapasvi(ascetic) in the palace for10 years, thus sharing the sorrws of his wife. He shunned the practice of remarriage even when he had to perfrom the Ashwamedha Yagna. here i would like to mentioned the male hypocrisy of our society, which lays stress on a woman being a &#8216;pati vrata&#8217; like Seeta. The same people never higlight the fact that Ram was a follower of Patni Vrat- being loyal and devoted to one&#8217;s wife. A beautiful potrayal of uttar Ramayan (not perfect) is available in vijay Bhatt&#8217;s Ram Rajya and NTR&#8217;s Lav Kush. the former was the only movie to be watched by Mahatma Gandhi in his lifetime.</p>
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		<title>By: Srini</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-163789</link>
		<dc:creator>Srini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-163789</guid>
		<description>rsn,

It&#039;s highly debatable whether Valimiki himself wrote Uttarakaanda because basic character of Rama doesn&#039;t fit into the character depicted in previous kaandas. I also referred http://www.valmikiramayan.net recently, though it&#039;s somewhat an abridged version, you can see that Rama gets into deeply pensive and suicidal moods just because of few months of separation from his ladylove. Valmiki captured these feelings very touchingly in aranya kaanda and kishkindha kaanda. It appears that his character as a lover puts even the best of lovers to shame. Few other inconsistent points which come to my mind regarding Uttara kaanda : when Rama could not  bear few months of separation, how could he tolerate years of separation from her? Yes, ramayan indicates that he did not enjoy the kingdom pleasures during that time and psychologically he was as devastated as Sita was but based on his character represented in previous kaandas, he or lakhmana or hanuma would have attempted to find her welfare atleast through spies, especially knowing that she was pregnant ! How could he wait till Lava and Kusa were born and brought up to be great warriors and singers (child prodigies?)  and their union with them only after fight with them? In this kaanda, I think he receives few positive points as a king but loses more points as a lover and husband but again gains few positive points by rejecting second marriage (very much prevailing system at that time) and kingdom pleasures in the absence of Seeta. Though I still very much like his character as an idealist, as an ordinary man with modern outlook, I strongly oppose his great misdeeds to Seeta and certainly add those points I deduct from Rama to Seeta. 

An off-line thought from my side: I don&#039;t think many Indians including myself accept the western inflamed Aryan theory. Sri Rama and Seeta were as much native Indians as we are ! And I also do not believe that the epic was based on historical facts because many of the psychological and physical feats depicted in the epic are very super-human. How do we reconcile these points - mystery of Seeta&#039;s birth still un-resolved in the epic ? talking monkeys ? power of Rama&#039;s arrows and lord of ocean&#039;s personal appearance to him ? curses, one of which keeps Ravana away from abusing Seeta physically ? detailed description of the events as if Valmiki saw them all himself ? flying chariots ? demons with illusory powers ? monkey changing its size at will from thumb to mountain sizes ? lords, their boons and curses ? monkey crossing the great ocean in few jumps ? constructing a bridge across a great ocean in few months ? great power of Rama&#039;s arrows, even ordinary arrows capable of piercing seven saala trees with mighty trunks and return to his quiver ? his ever-replenished quivers ? ideal king/husband/son/lover? ideal brother(s) ? ideal and perfect wife ? ideal devotee? adding characters in uttara kaanda, highly accomplished singer &amp; warrior child prodigies ? and many more points.  Valmiki&#039;s imagination was too ideal, his quest for great ideals being served only in his epic. I believe that Ramayan was a great literary fiction, not anything historical except for possibly few things like names of the places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rsn,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s highly debatable whether Valimiki himself wrote Uttarakaanda because basic character of Rama doesn&#8217;t fit into the character depicted in previous kaandas. I also referred <a href="http://www.valmikiramayan.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.valmikiramayan.net</a> recently, though it&#8217;s somewhat an abridged version, you can see that Rama gets into deeply pensive and suicidal moods just because of few months of separation from his ladylove. Valmiki captured these feelings very touchingly in aranya kaanda and kishkindha kaanda. It appears that his character as a lover puts even the best of lovers to shame. Few other inconsistent points which come to my mind regarding Uttara kaanda : when Rama could not  bear few months of separation, how could he tolerate years of separation from her? Yes, ramayan indicates that he did not enjoy the kingdom pleasures during that time and psychologically he was as devastated as Sita was but based on his character represented in previous kaandas, he or lakhmana or hanuma would have attempted to find her welfare atleast through spies, especially knowing that she was pregnant ! How could he wait till Lava and Kusa were born and brought up to be great warriors and singers (child prodigies?)  and their union with them only after fight with them? In this kaanda, I think he receives few positive points as a king but loses more points as a lover and husband but again gains few positive points by rejecting second marriage (very much prevailing system at that time) and kingdom pleasures in the absence of Seeta. Though I still very much like his character as an idealist, as an ordinary man with modern outlook, I strongly oppose his great misdeeds to Seeta and certainly add those points I deduct from Rama to Seeta. </p>
<p>An off-line thought from my side: I don&#8217;t think many Indians including myself accept the western inflamed Aryan theory. Sri Rama and Seeta were as much native Indians as we are ! And I also do not believe that the epic was based on historical facts because many of the psychological and physical feats depicted in the epic are very super-human. How do we reconcile these points &#8211; mystery of Seeta&#8217;s birth still un-resolved in the epic ? talking monkeys ? power of Rama&#8217;s arrows and lord of ocean&#8217;s personal appearance to him ? curses, one of which keeps Ravana away from abusing Seeta physically ? detailed description of the events as if Valmiki saw them all himself ? flying chariots ? demons with illusory powers ? monkey changing its size at will from thumb to mountain sizes ? lords, their boons and curses ? monkey crossing the great ocean in few jumps ? constructing a bridge across a great ocean in few months ? great power of Rama&#8217;s arrows, even ordinary arrows capable of piercing seven saala trees with mighty trunks and return to his quiver ? his ever-replenished quivers ? ideal king/husband/son/lover? ideal brother(s) ? ideal and perfect wife ? ideal devotee? adding characters in uttara kaanda, highly accomplished singer &amp; warrior child prodigies ? and many more points.  Valmiki&#8217;s imagination was too ideal, his quest for great ideals being served only in his epic. I believe that Ramayan was a great literary fiction, not anything historical except for possibly few things like names of the places.</p>
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		<title>By: rsn</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2005/02/22/musings-on-uttara-kanda-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-155624</link>
		<dc:creator>rsn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 20:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.11.51.228/~sandeep/wp/?p=228#comment-155624</guid>
		<description>Sri Rama so humiliated Sita that she finally jumped off a hill.
Rama himself commits suicide by jumping into the Sarayu.

Ramayana is only a eulogised biography of an Aryan invader-king.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sri Rama so humiliated Sita that she finally jumped off a hill.<br />
Rama himself commits suicide by jumping into the Sarayu.</p>
<p>Ramayana is only a eulogised biography of an Aryan invader-king.</p>
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