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	<title>Comments on: Libertarianism Versus Socialism for Dummies</title>
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	<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/</link>
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		<title>By: Lynne</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-338834</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-338834</guid>
		<description>I wonder what  Rose Wilder Lane would think of the &quot;progress of USA &quot;and USA as a supposed bastion of human rights (enshrined in the constitution)&quot; post Abu Graib, post anti Terrorism laws  restricting individuals rights to freedom (especially if you are from a Middle Eastern background) and post Afghanistan not to mention the huge numbers of people now living in poverty in USA as compared to the progress of socialist leaning countries such as Sweden and Denmark.with their supportive social systems that have benefited the masses??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what  Rose Wilder Lane would think of the &#8220;progress of USA &#8220;and USA as a supposed bastion of human rights (enshrined in the constitution)&#8221; post Abu Graib, post anti Terrorism laws  restricting individuals rights to freedom (especially if you are from a Middle Eastern background) and post Afghanistan not to mention the huge numbers of people now living in poverty in USA as compared to the progress of socialist leaning countries such as Sweden and Denmark.with their supportive social systems that have benefited the masses??</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-338093</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-338093</guid>
		<description>&quot;Kristin 
October 29, 2008 at 3:07 AM &#124; Permalink 

Thank you Brittany. I feel exactly the same. Socialism gives no incentive to better yourself.&quot;

If bettering yourself means making more money and buying more possessions, than yes. But if you can think outside of a capitalist mindset and focus on actually improving yourself as a human being, then Libertarian Socialism would allow people to better themselves. If we can remove the greed that capitalism relies on to thrive as an economic and social system then we can all realize that we are in this together. 

And what makes you think flipping a burger is worth less than going to medical school. That&#039;s pretty ignorant. Intelligence is not wisdom and frankly I believe wisdom goes a lot farther than intelligence. Anyone can spend time studying and becoming intelligent, but wisdom is a lot harder to come by. Spending years training and then working in a profession requiring a lot of intellectual expertise can surely be rewarding, but it can take time away from a very different kind of learning. 

Besides the discussion on the values of intelligence versus wisdom, anything can be rewarding. I find monotonous tasks to be enjoyable as they give a person time to either deliberate on other matters or to be induced into a meditative state, where one could learn more about themselves. 

Many very intelligent people have chosen a physically demanding job over a more mental one because they enjoy learning for learning. They don&#039;t need to use a job as a social status or a way to increase the amount of possessions they can aquire to distract them. They go to the construction site every day and stay healthy doing their job, then go home and read up on law books for fun.

Life isn&#039;t so black and white. Everything is a matter of perception. And perception itself is limited by the bodies we live in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Kristin<br />
October 29, 2008 at 3:07 AM | Permalink </p>
<p>Thank you Brittany. I feel exactly the same. Socialism gives no incentive to better yourself.&#8221;</p>
<p>If bettering yourself means making more money and buying more possessions, than yes. But if you can think outside of a capitalist mindset and focus on actually improving yourself as a human being, then Libertarian Socialism would allow people to better themselves. If we can remove the greed that capitalism relies on to thrive as an economic and social system then we can all realize that we are in this together. </p>
<p>And what makes you think flipping a burger is worth less than going to medical school. That&#8217;s pretty ignorant. Intelligence is not wisdom and frankly I believe wisdom goes a lot farther than intelligence. Anyone can spend time studying and becoming intelligent, but wisdom is a lot harder to come by. Spending years training and then working in a profession requiring a lot of intellectual expertise can surely be rewarding, but it can take time away from a very different kind of learning. </p>
<p>Besides the discussion on the values of intelligence versus wisdom, anything can be rewarding. I find monotonous tasks to be enjoyable as they give a person time to either deliberate on other matters or to be induced into a meditative state, where one could learn more about themselves. </p>
<p>Many very intelligent people have chosen a physically demanding job over a more mental one because they enjoy learning for learning. They don&#8217;t need to use a job as a social status or a way to increase the amount of possessions they can aquire to distract them. They go to the construction site every day and stay healthy doing their job, then go home and read up on law books for fun.</p>
<p>Life isn&#8217;t so black and white. Everything is a matter of perception. And perception itself is limited by the bodies we live in.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-338091</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-338091</guid>
		<description>Looks like Jay already gave a good little description of Libertarian Socialism. His descriptions about mutualism basically describe what I believe to be a real, true democracy. The United States was never meant to be a real democracy and has never been one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Jay already gave a good little description of Libertarian Socialism. His descriptions about mutualism basically describe what I believe to be a real, true democracy. The United States was never meant to be a real democracy and has never been one.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-338090</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-338090</guid>
		<description>Looks like Jay already gave some pretty good insight. I should have read all the comments first. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Jay already gave some pretty good insight. I should have read all the comments first. <img src='http://www.sandeepweb.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-338089</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-338089</guid>
		<description>I have a huge problem with this little comparison. Not all Socialism involves Statism. There are two types of socialists. Those who value the state above the people and those who value the people over the state. Basically Anarchism vs. Statism.

There are two different types of Libertarians as well. Right-Libertarians are Anti-Statists who believe in Capitalism. Left-Libertarians are also Anti-Statists who believe in Socialism. The Capitalist Libertarians frankly view money and possession as much more important speaking points than human rights and equality. Now that may sound a little slanted, as I am a Libertarian Socialist, but there&#039;s a good deal of truth in the claim that capitalists value money over people.

Anyway, two kinds of socialism and two kinds of libertarians.

I hate when people assume all Socialists are Statists who love big government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a huge problem with this little comparison. Not all Socialism involves Statism. There are two types of socialists. Those who value the state above the people and those who value the people over the state. Basically Anarchism vs. Statism.</p>
<p>There are two different types of Libertarians as well. Right-Libertarians are Anti-Statists who believe in Capitalism. Left-Libertarians are also Anti-Statists who believe in Socialism. The Capitalist Libertarians frankly view money and possession as much more important speaking points than human rights and equality. Now that may sound a little slanted, as I am a Libertarian Socialist, but there&#8217;s a good deal of truth in the claim that capitalists value money over people.</p>
<p>Anyway, two kinds of socialism and two kinds of libertarians.</p>
<p>I hate when people assume all Socialists are Statists who love big government.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-336178</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-336178</guid>
		<description>You know there are different schools within libertarian thought.  There is a school called libertarian socialism which is what they call a left libertarian.  Such libertarians support a non authoritarian (free), more egalitarian, democraic, non hiearchical society.  Libertarian Socialists support a voluntary socialism that comes from the people voluntarily entering into common ownership of the means of production and/or land.  As opposed to state socialism which is authoritarian and is not voluntary.  An example of voluntary socialism would be some religious communities where the people have decided to hold all things in common, this being done without the state.  I lean within a sub school of LS called mutualism.  Mutualism supports a free market socialism.  It argues for individuals owning businesses along with partnerships.  In terms of larger scale businesses it supports worker cooperatives over capitalist corporations where the workers own an interest in the business and have a vote in how it is run.  This is basically the democratic workplace.  Mutualism supports community nonprofit banks/credit unions that would provide loans to such cooperatives at a very low interest rate.  Mutualism supports private property based on possession and use of such property.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know there are different schools within libertarian thought.  There is a school called libertarian socialism which is what they call a left libertarian.  Such libertarians support a non authoritarian (free), more egalitarian, democraic, non hiearchical society.  Libertarian Socialists support a voluntary socialism that comes from the people voluntarily entering into common ownership of the means of production and/or land.  As opposed to state socialism which is authoritarian and is not voluntary.  An example of voluntary socialism would be some religious communities where the people have decided to hold all things in common, this being done without the state.  I lean within a sub school of LS called mutualism.  Mutualism supports a free market socialism.  It argues for individuals owning businesses along with partnerships.  In terms of larger scale businesses it supports worker cooperatives over capitalist corporations where the workers own an interest in the business and have a vote in how it is run.  This is basically the democratic workplace.  Mutualism supports community nonprofit banks/credit unions that would provide loans to such cooperatives at a very low interest rate.  Mutualism supports private property based on possession and use of such property.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-334781</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-334781</guid>
		<description>Capitalism offers freedom and opportunity. Libertarianism empowers the individuals who are motivated, ambitious and self-governed. Socialism relies on the destruction of the individual to empower the state, which is a select few &lt;i&gt;individuals&lt;/i&gt; that control it. Collectivism is a farce, and even if it was probable, which it isn&#039;t.... It is not something at all that is appealing. Individual interest serves the greater good, not creating an illusory equality with those who are clearly not equal. 

Some people say that socialism and communism look good on paper, in theory, but I disagree. It doesn&#039;t look appealing at any angle. Socialism allows the government to control individual virtue, restrict creativity, and abolish self-interest. Turbulent risk-taking freedom is infinitely more appealing than a safe and sedate oppression. 

`Chuck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capitalism offers freedom and opportunity. Libertarianism empowers the individuals who are motivated, ambitious and self-governed. Socialism relies on the destruction of the individual to empower the state, which is a select few <i>individuals</i> that control it. Collectivism is a farce, and even if it was probable, which it isn&#8217;t&#8230;. It is not something at all that is appealing. Individual interest serves the greater good, not creating an illusory equality with those who are clearly not equal. </p>
<p>Some people say that socialism and communism look good on paper, in theory, but I disagree. It doesn&#8217;t look appealing at any angle. Socialism allows the government to control individual virtue, restrict creativity, and abolish self-interest. Turbulent risk-taking freedom is infinitely more appealing than a safe and sedate oppression. </p>
<p>`Chuck.</p>
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		<title>By: Raghavendra</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-311514</link>
		<dc:creator>Raghavendra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 03:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-311514</guid>
		<description>Our civilization has experimented several of these theories,its better to revise these theory from Indian(Hindu) point of view. Our varna system though not feasible today, was once, a successful model,it was cooperative in nature compared to competitive western counterpart. Liberalism in American sense is little dangerous, India believed in free thought but society in terms of its customs, there never was much of freedom. I guess we can improvise on this, Indians should forget the America dream and should follow its own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our civilization has experimented several of these theories,its better to revise these theory from Indian(Hindu) point of view. Our varna system though not feasible today, was once, a successful model,it was cooperative in nature compared to competitive western counterpart. Liberalism in American sense is little dangerous, India believed in free thought but society in terms of its customs, there never was much of freedom. I guess we can improvise on this, Indians should forget the America dream and should follow its own.</p>
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		<title>By: Mahesh</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-311410</link>
		<dc:creator>Mahesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 12:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-311410</guid>
		<description>I guess the more relevant question to be discussed/debated is where does the hindu way of living lie in the socialism-libertarian axis. This is assuming that the people who visit this blog would have a  pro-bjp stand and/or concerned with preserving the hindu way of living. I had the fortune of discussing this issue with Dr. David Frawley (Pandit Vamadeva Shastri, www.vedanet.com) and his view was it would be in proximity to the libertarian thought. I also hold that view. Minimum government, free market principles governing economics and individual responsibility on his/her actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the more relevant question to be discussed/debated is where does the hindu way of living lie in the socialism-libertarian axis. This is assuming that the people who visit this blog would have a  pro-bjp stand and/or concerned with preserving the hindu way of living. I had the fortune of discussing this issue with Dr. David Frawley (Pandit Vamadeva Shastri, <a href="http://www.vedanet.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.vedanet.com</a>) and his view was it would be in proximity to the libertarian thought. I also hold that view. Minimum government, free market principles governing economics and individual responsibility on his/her actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Vance</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2006/03/22/libertarianism-versus-socialism-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-311403</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 10:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/?p=540#comment-311403</guid>
		<description>I think you have illustrated perfectly both points of view.  It all boils down to the question of who is mor important, the individual or the state.  As a long-time Libertarian activist I vote for the individual.  The only way the state has any power is through force (try not paying your taxes).  It&#039;s the iron fist of the government verses the gentle hand of liberty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have illustrated perfectly both points of view.  It all boils down to the question of who is mor important, the individual or the state.  As a long-time Libertarian activist I vote for the individual.  The only way the state has any power is through force (try not paying your taxes).  It&#8217;s the iron fist of the government verses the gentle hand of liberty.</p>
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