On Female Infanticide in India

The image of India as caste-cow-curry seems to have receded a bit despite the exertions of Indian gatekeepers of the West to perpetuate it. Of the three, the first is definitely the most favourite stick to beat India. However, there exists a far more powerful stick used with increasing ferocity: female infanticide.

The brutes who continue this abhorrent practice must be skinned alive in public. It is not difficult to trace the origins of female infanticide.

A few ancient Hindu scriptures do mention that only sons are entitled to kindle the funeral pyre of parents. But how far do we go back to trace the origins of this undue emphasis on males as the be-all end-all of a family?

The earliest record of Hinduism’s philosophical, cultural, and social foundations is undoubtedly the Vedas. So, do we have any reference to the male-first commandment there? Nope. On the contrary, we have numerous instances to the contrary. The Rg Veda for example, holds women in very high regard. Today’s ultra-feminists need to have at least a cursory look at what it says. Most Vedic suktas (verses/aphorisms/hymns) were composed mostly by male sages, which would give the impression of a male-dominated society. Yet that does not automatically prove that women were relegated to the kitchen and bedroom. We have the lofty example of Anasuya, wife of Sage Atri, who was highly respected as one who had conquered/free of jealousy. Incidentally, that’s the meaning of the word, “Anasuya.” Women like Vishvavaraa, Vaak, Ambhruni, Ghoshaa, Shachi, Gaargi, Maitreyi were themselves suktakaraas (composers of hymns).

So, a Wikipedia article on infanticide reveals only part of the picture when it says:

…in India’s patrilineal and patriarchal system of families is that having at least one son is mandatory in order to continue the familial line, and many sons constitute additional status to families. The final factor of female deselection is the religious functions that only sons are allowed to provide, based on Hindu tradition. Hindu tradition says that sons are mandatory in order to kindle the funeral pyre of their late parents and to assist in the soul salvation.

That doesn’t really explain the cause for female infanticide. If you try and attribute the cause for female infanticide to our scriptures/sastras, you are guaranteed to fail miserably. Not a single Hindu scripture asks you to kill an unborn child–isn’t it strange that a philosophy that urges everybody to respect all forms of life–plant, insect, animal, human–would somehow enjoin its adherents to kill a foetus? On the contrary, a famous sukta in the Mahanarayana Upanishad says, bhroona hatyaam vaa ye te ghnanti–forgive me/save me from the sin of killing a foetus. The scriptures list out several “deadly” sins: killing a Brahmin, a foetus, parents, warriors, teachers, and so on.

What explains it is time and a host of political, economic, social, and changes. It is relevant to mention dowry as a contributing factor to female infanticide. Most families that practise female infanticide dread the fact that they’d have to cough up huge sums as dowry at the time of the girl’s marriage. That in today’s condition is the only plausible explanation for female infanticide. That, majority cases of female infanticide occur in the poor/low income families is also a crucial point to note. Tie this with the dowry element to derive the obvious conclusion. To attribute only religious injunctions as the cause of female infanticide–as the Wikipedia entry has done–is speaking from ignorance at best or being fraudulent at worst. Because several Hindu religious rituals compulsorily require the wife to be present.

Yet, this was always not the norm. We also have numerous instances of “reverse dowry” where the groom was (is still in some parts of India) expected to pay dowry to the bride.

Nor is female infanticide limited to India alone. The same Wikipedia entry also mentions Pakistan, China, and South Korea. From this report on China,

A body of Chinese poetry, The Book of Songs, believed to date from 1000-700 B.C., offers this advice to new parents:

When a son is born
Let him sleep on the bed,
Clothe him with fine clothes.
And give him jade to play with. …

When a daughter is born,
Let her sleep on the ground,
Wrap her in common wrappings,
And give her broken tiles for playthings.

Now, show me ONE sloka/verse/injunction in the Hindu tradition that resembles this by at least a fraction.

Yet, this is rarely reported in the NYT or other giant opinion-shapers. We’re back again to the question of bias. Like dowry and caste, reports of Indian female infanticide are blown out of proportion more often than not, deliberately. This is an area where Professional Milkers of Human Misery–the NGOs, can make serious money. Their favourite justification for said milking: a random Sanskrit verse or passage that has a male bias –which anyway the conscience-stricken donors won’t understand–and the dollars keep flowing in.

Female infanticide is truly brutal and should stop immediately. But that won’t happen by (falsely) blaming Hindu scriptures. Is it the fault of the scriptures that others misinterpreted them to mean that giving birth to a girl child was bad? Clauses that said females were forbidden from certain rituals were twisted to mean that the female sex itself abominable. A few individuals went the next logical step ahead: nip it in the bud. Yet these selfsame individuals worship the Devi. What explains that? I can raise hundreds of such seemingly-contradictory questions but that’s for another post.

Condemn our Shastras to your heart’s content but that’ll not stop these despicable murderers. Few questions to the Professional Milkmen/women:

  • Have you taken pains to read, understand, and explain the original doctrines to those who commit female infanticide?
  • Have you pointed the fact that the doctrines actually condemn the practice of bhru hatya (foetus-killing)?
  • What is your track record of actually changing mindsets, preventing further incidents, and genuinely making a difference?

I’m open for debate.

PS: Does that help, Tushar?

Cross-posted on Desicritics.

312 comments for “On Female Infanticide in India

  1. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 8:44 AM

    @Arvind.. I am neglecting you ’cause you are like a White Christian who believes Dinosaur Fossils were put by Devil to Trick Humans.. You are like a Christian who wants to be praised always.. You are like a Christian who worship Middle Age Gods… You are like a Christian who believes in Supremacy… You are like a Christian who believes everything is a Propaganda and Conspiracy Theories.. So your Hindu Thoughts make no different from a White Christian.. Both pulled down the World Centuries behind… So, Thanks for your Idiotic Contributions to the Planet…

  2. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 8:09 AM

    @Arvind.. Yeah.. Knock it off.. You have no idea what on earth you are talking about… You didn’t understand a thing from my statements.. Did you? Let some Intellectual ask the question.. I will try to answer it.. It ain’t worth having a conversation with you… I suppose I am not in a Girl World to be silly .. Seriously, How old are you? Grow up and Go Clean your Room…

  3. Arvind
    May 22, 2012 at 7:00 AM

    Why I am not against Abortion.. is ’cause It’s simply a Personal Choice and it’s not against nature…
    But if you do Selective Abortion… Then species may go Extinct..

    We know *exactly* why you are inconsistent. You don’t have to cook up idiotic explanations. You hold these positions because you suffer from inferiority complex and look up to White Christian socialists and have adopted their positions and are parroting them here.

    BTW, your explanation confirms that you fit the classical definition of a moron. If 50% of the babies are killed, the species will become extinct and that worries you. However, if 100% of babies are killed, the species will thrive. Keep it coming. Did you learn logic from White socialist women? You seem dumber than even them.

  4. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 4:32 AM

    @Nash.. How does one score above? Try to relate it with Honor Killing and Selective Abortion?

  5. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 4:06 AM

    @Nash.. Why I am not against Homosexuality, Bisexuality, Asexuality is ’cause They ain’t against Nature.. It’s been observed in hundreds of Species…. and It’s simply a Personal Choice… Homosexuality was common in Ancient India and Ancient Greece and other parts of the World.. But the Human Species still survived…

    Why I am not against Abortion.. is ’cause It’s simply a Personal Choice and it’s not against nature…
    But if you do Selective Abortion… Then species may go Extinct.. ’cause There are no evidence which suggest 100% Homosexuality can produce Offspring.. But there are evidences for Asexual Organisms can produce Offspring..

    If you think Abortion is wrong and it’s against Nature and it kills a life.. Then you are doing a Genocide by doing Hand Job or Masturbation… Each Sperm and each Egg is a Life…

    In the 21st Century Producing an Offspring may not be a Concern.. ’cause we have in vitro fertilization, Artificial Insemination, Cloning etc.. It’s not Only Gods can create a new Life or reboot a life even Humans Can and we already did…

    Even You can find Natural Abortion… where the Nature does the Abortion..

  6. May 22, 2012 at 3:45 AM

    @Ruru: “I suppose you don’t know the difference between ‘Mostly’ and ‘Only’.. I said ‘Mostly’ not ‘Only’.. ‘Mostly’ means a greater part.. Did I say ”

    as in, *initially* i wasted my time responding to u when u were only mostly an idiot, but now,..

  7. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 3:09 AM

    @Avinash… Hinduism never existed during the time of Carvakas.. There were no Hinduism in the beginning.. It was like Vedic Religion, Shaivism, Vaishnavism, and other indigenous Religions and they fought each other and had the presence of Untouchability.. In Modern Times they Mix all these beliefs.. to win, like Christianity.. Even Christians did the same… In the Past these worked, but present these are not gonna work..

    Persians introduced the Word Hindu.. and to the British the word Hindu was whoever practiced Indian Religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, etc).. In these Sense.. an Indian Christian, Indian Muslim would be also a Hindu…

    Later For Indians, it was a notion of bringing all the Indigenous Religions into a Single Umbrella to avoid foreign invasion.. and that led to the decline of Buddhism, Jainism & Atheism in the Indian Sub-Continent..

    Carvakas mocked all these Gods and Texts in ancient India… What are these Hindus trying to prove? Why these Hindu Religious say they have atheism, agnosticism.. when all of them worship Personal Gods?

    Christianity destroyed Science and Suppressed the Truth and massacred Millions in the West, Muslims did the same in the Middle East and South West Asia and Hindus did the same in South Asia…

  8. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 2:43 AM

    @unratedish… Guys, Please don’t post links.. If I search Google, certainly I can get there..
    Why don’t you go to the sites which refute his claims…
    There are Aryan Nazi Explanations which say Jewish Persecution is a Propaganda..
    There are Islamists believe that Islamic rulers were deliberately projected as Intolerant…
    There are people who consider Aryan Dravidian concept is a Myth…
    There are people who believe Humans didn’t go to Moon…
    Muslims believe Jewish Land is a Propaganda by Zionists..
    Christians believe Dinosaur & Chimpanzee bones were put by Satan to Trick Humans..etc…
    There are many sites which says these are wrong, these are right..

  9. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 2:22 AM

    @Arvind.. You are an Illiterate, Ignorant, Racist Evil SOB.. I don’t know What on Earth you are talking about? Either you can put a Stop to your Brain Fart or continue spewing Venomous, Illogical Fallacies…

    I give a Rat’s ass if you believe that I am a Communist or Christian.. I better speak with some Intellectuals.. who is capable of providing some Logical Inputs…

  10. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 2:16 AM

    @Kedar.. Do I need to talk Present day?.. I suppose you would be knowing that? Hindu Terrorism is no different from Islamic and Christian Terrorism…

  11. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 22, 2012 at 2:09 AM

    @Kedar.. 1) According to Buddhists Texts such as Ashokavadana and Divyavadana contain accounts of Buddhist Persecution during Sunga Reign.

    2) Indianized Huns massacred Buddhists and destroyed their Shrines and Monasteries..

    3) Pallava Rulers have destroyed by Buddhist Shrines.

    4) Buddhist Shrines have been converted or destroying in many parts of India including Kerala

    During the Reign of Mauryan Empire Ashoka banned Vedic Sacrifices.. and the Successor Shungas reinstated the Vedic Sacrifices.. and conducted Ashwamedha Yagna.
    Buddhism challenged the divinity of Vedas, questioned Caste System and the rights of the Oppressed.. and many Lower caste been converted to Buddhism like the present day Islam and Christianity.. due to lack of respect in Hinduism…

    You can try to refute by saying it’s Exaggerated, but Unfortunately, It has basis of Truth.. due to vandalizing Stupas.. You can try to refute by saying Hinduism and Buddhism Co-existed together.. there are many buildings been contributed to Buddhism during Hindu Reigns..

    If that’s the case.. Akbar persecuted many Hindus in the past but later he was tolerant towards Hindus. He never discriminated Hinduism and Islam.. and These co-existed peacefully. During Islamic Rule Muslims persecuted many Hindus but still they co-existed peacefully in many Parts.. Does that erase Islamic Atrocities?

    Christians Persecuted Jews in the Past.. But, Christians Consider Jews as the chosen people and Jews need to be Protected and they believed in the restoration of the Jewish Land.. Does that hide their involvement? So, Co-existing Peacefully won’t hide the involvement.

  12. Arvind
    May 21, 2012 at 10:25 PM

    @menka: nobody cares about keshubhai, modi, bjp, etc. everyone knows that the issue is that some religions perpetrate terrorism and such terrorism needs to be opposed. congress harbors such terror spreading cults and so those who oppose it end up going with whoever promises to oppose them. it so happens that for a few years, it seemed like bjp was the best among the scoundrels for this purpose.

    everyone knows that all political parties contain corrupt people. you may be a sonia sycophant but that does not mean that everyone else bases their support based on personalities and sycophancy. no matter what corruption exists, if the conditional support of some people for bjp is based upon the promise to oppose jihadists, that support is really an opposition to terrorism.

    btw, we all know you suffer from inferiority complex. terror perpetrating cults are not equal to hinduism just because you suffer from inferiority complex and want to make an assertion that all religions are equal. you do that so that you get appreciated by white-skinned “liberals.” that won’t change the truth.

  13. Arvind
    May 21, 2012 at 10:17 PM

    @nash: you asked, “how does one score above the other?”

    you need to understand the mindset of these people. they just follow what their white masters say. baby-killing is the sport of their white masters and so they call it freedom of choice. the unfortunate situation of poor people aborting female babies due to poverty is condemned by the same white people who kill babies to score a political point. so this is how one scores over the other for these white-worshipping people. they memorize whatever the whites tell them and repeat it here.

    btw, it is not individual choice to slaughter babies. murder is murder no matter who is the perpetrator and who is the victim.

  14. nash
    May 21, 2012 at 7:42 PM

    to Ruru Koshy Varghese

    a selective sentence from your comment

    “I am not against Abortion or Homosexuality.. ’cause it’s simply a Personal Choice… But if you do Selective Abortion your Next Generation would be Homosexuals…”

    May be you have to rethink again on what you have posted as above.
    Notice by reason Both “not against Abortion and Homosexuality” and “Selective Abortion” leads to the same conclusion that is next generation would be …….

    i know you have a case in terms of individual rights and so forth.. but dont you think,the same argument holds to both the cases as above -in case of discussion.
    how does one score above the other?

  15. Avinash
    May 21, 2012 at 5:35 PM

    @ menka, pl read this also and enjoy:
    http://www.rediff.com/news/report/soldier-blows-himself-up-in-yemen-killing-96/20120521.htm
    Religion of Peace granting (eternal) peace to its followers!!!!!!!

  16. Avinash
    May 21, 2012 at 5:33 PM

    @ menka, pl read this also:
    http://www.rediff.com/news/report/soldier-blows-himself-up-in-yemen-killing-96/20120521.htm
    Religion of peace giving (eternal) peace to their followers!!!!!!!!!!

  17. Avinash
    May 21, 2012 at 5:32 PM

    @ menka, it seems that you suffering from Modiphobia!! P,l read this and enjoy.
    http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-narendra-modi-most-popular-national-leader-says-survey/20120521.htm

  18. menka
    May 21, 2012 at 5:04 PM

    No reply from Modi boys now. Is it because even they are unable to deny factual events which took place recently?

  19. Avinash
    May 21, 2012 at 1:37 PM

    @ Ruru Koshy Varghese, >>>>>>Instead of Supporting Hinduism>>>>>>Hinduism is not a Religion in its narrow sense. It is a conglomeration of various beliefs and even non-belief (Atheism). Atheists existed even in Vedic era and were called Carvakas.

    Pl download and read “The Necessity of Atheism” by Dr. D.M. Brooks. He has graphically described the atrocities committed in the name of Religions, especially Christianity and Islam, the world over.

  20. unratedish
    May 21, 2012 at 12:40 PM

    @ Ruru
    —If Abrahamic Religion is trying to destroy Hinduism.. Then, Why ain’t you pointing out Hindu attrocities on Buddhists? Hinduism destroyed Buddhism… Hindus forcefully converted Buddhists.. and done Mass Murder.. and Destroyed or Converted their Shrines.. Even now they do the same…—

    Hey champ, will you try to put some facts instead of making sweeping statements? Please cross-check the myths in the below article first and still if you have anything left than and only comment.
    http://agniveer.com/5936/were-buddhists-persecuted-by-hindus/

  21. Arvind
    May 21, 2012 at 11:11 AM

    @Ruru: In your exchange with cricfan, you wrote, “You believe that I am a Christian or Communist.”

    Believe me, your name is a dead giveaway. Besides, all your talking points are straight out of the playbook of the bishops. So it is clear you are a Christist. In fact, you are either a bishop or a person indoctrinated by a bishop. Besides, you are from Kerala and it is very likely you are a Communist as well. If so, that would make you a Christist Communist.

  22. Arvind
    May 21, 2012 at 10:54 AM

    @Ruru: You prove your stupidity and the fact that you are completely brainwashed by parroting the White people’s claims because either all infanticide is wrong or no infanticide is wrong.

    Your position is that only that infanticide is wrong which will not convict White people. I think you are in awe of White people.

    On your previous comment in which you wrote: “Then, Why ain’t you pointing out Hindu attrocities on Buddhists? Hinduism destroyed Buddhism… Hindus forcefully converted Buddhists.. and done Mass Murder.. and Destroyed or Converted their Shrines.. Even now they do the same…”

    ROFL! Is this what your bishop speaks from the pulpit in the Sunday Mass brainwashing sessions? Keep it coming!

  23. Kedar
    May 21, 2012 at 10:22 AM

    Shri Ruru Koshy Varghese, can you please provide 2 or 3 pieces of evidence for each of these accusations on Hinduism:

    1) Why ain’t you pointing out Hindu attrocities on Buddhists?
    2) Hinduism destroyed Buddhism…
    3) Hindus forcefully converted Buddhists.. and
    4) done Mass Murder.. and
    5) Destroyed or Converted their Shrines..
    6) Even now they do the same…

    Looks like we are going to have those naaaice history discussions again. Wonderful.

  24. menka
    May 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM

    Whoa ..Keshubhai has risen like a phoenix. He attracted a crowd of over 60000 people recently in saurashtra while Modi rallies are only attracting empty chairs and stray dogs. A mere 6000 people attended a Brahmin community gathering at Surat on April 24 while the caterers prepared food for around one lakh. Modi was left fuming and frothing after this fiasco. It is sign of things to come because people are disgusted with this Modi propaganda done by APCO world wide. Leaders in the state BJP like Nalin Bhatt, Yamal Vyas are already in talks with Keshubhai and they are ready to revolt. Modi’s future it seems will be spent in prison now.

  25. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 21, 2012 at 12:48 AM

    @Arvind.. I suppose you should know the difference between ‘Mostly’ and ‘Only’.. I don’t understand.. instead of refuting my points.. why are you making such Irrelevant Statements… Propaganda.. Aryan Nazi says.. Jewish Persecution is a Propaganda.. Pakistanis believe 26/11 is a Propaganda and it’s done by Indian Government… Are you ready to believe that those are Propagandas? Evidence matters dude.. We have Evidences… So, don’t try to put your Conspiracy Theories…
    It’s just a common sense to say Female Infanticide is high in India due to Human Sex Ratio…
    I am not against Abortion or Homosexuality.. ’cause it’s simply a Personal Choice… But if you do Selective Abortion your Next Generation would be Homosexuals…

  26. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 21, 2012 at 12:36 AM

    @cricfan… Seriosly, You are one big Moron.. Instead of Supporting Hinduism.. you simply criticized Christianity and Communism.. which made your Statements Absolute Fallacy..

    I suppose you don’t know the difference between ‘Mostly’ and ‘Only’.. I said ‘Mostly’ not ‘Only’.. ‘Mostly’ means a greater part.. Did I say these doesn’t happen anywhere else..

    You believe that I am a Christian or Communist.. Isn’t that why you criticized only Christianity and Communism.. Remember Atheists/Agnostics Ideology is different than Leftists.. Don’t Mix it.. I suppose You lack Knowledge and you are a History Denier… like a Person who follows Religion..

    Caste System & Racism are different.. I suppose you should be intelligent enough to understand the differences.. Christianity in India has Caste System.. Rest of the World it’s Racism..

    Murder for Insurance and Murder for Dowry are different and it has a differnet definition in Law… Rape happens everywhere… Check the facts and numbers…

    If Abrahamic Religion is trying to destroy Hinduism.. Then, Why ain’t you pointing out Hindu attrocities on Buddhists? Hinduism destroyed Buddhism… Hindus forcefully converted Buddhists.. and done Mass Murder.. and Destroyed or Converted their Shrines.. Even now they do the same…

    Criticizing without Reason.. won’t hide your Involvement.. You are as guilty as others.. I suppose you are affected by Temporal Lobe Epilepsy.. to support an Middle Ages Organized Religion and stupid Gods.. Age of your Religions and Gods are over..

    This is 21st Century.. We don’t need your Stupid, Idiotic, Illogical, Middle Ages Religions and Gods… We have Science… Our brains have evolved.. not stuck with 7th Century…

  27. Arvind
    May 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM

    “Caste System, Female Infanticide, Sati, Child Marriages done mostly by Hindus”

    Have you fallen for the UN/Amnesty propaganda? The leader of infanticide is Russia followed by USA. Europe also leads the way in infanticide. We all know that they now even want to legalize it by passing a law which says that cutting the head of babies with a pair of scissors should be permitted.

    As for selective abortion, you need to look at Muslims in Bangladesh, but to be fair, what happens there and in much of the subcontinent is sad as it is due to poverty. In USA and Europe, they kill babies just to prove that they are socialists and this is their idea of proving that women are equal to men. This is the most criminal thing ever done. Even Hitler pales in comparison as the total number of murders in this form in USA alone in the past 30 years is 100 million. Unofficial sources put that number as high as 350 million!

  28. May 19, 2012 at 6:53 AM

    Ruru Koshy Varghese: “Caste System, Female Infanticide, Sati, Child Marriages done mostly by Hindus”

    utter nonsense (and im picking just one line for sample sake).

    there is a well defined caste system in Islam, trashing its fake notion of equality. Neither Mohd nor Jesus criticized slavery. Female infanticide is very common in China, and some of the more popular religions out there today are Christianity and Communism. There is a caste system in Christianity as well. I’ll let u dig that out. it shouldn’t be difficult. Some of the biggest wife-abusers in the world are Swiss Christians. Murder of wife for insurance money (little different from “dowry deaths”) is quite common among Christians in the US and the west. There is a documented study on this. Child rapists infest churches all over the world, and is very well known. Under-age sex is rampant in the US.

    Hindus have been free of Abrahamic tyranny for just 65 years now after 800 YEARS of the most brutal suppression, cultural and human genocide the world has seen, and have had their native culture violently uprooted and a subset of the society has been forced to adopt some vile practices in response to this inhuman occupation.

    Every people have their defects. This is not about superiority. The church, Islam, and leftists are better of minding their own goddamn business and fixing glaring defects in their own crappy products (instead of trying to sell it to gullible, uprooted Hindus), even as Hindu society works on fixing its own problems and regaining is moorings by restoring Dharma in India.

  29. Ruru Koshy Varghese
    May 16, 2012 at 3:56 PM

    It’s certainly a Religious thing.. It’s root is Religion.. and Religion influence everyone.. There are Verses and Sutras which Promotes or Influence.. But it doesn’t matter whether their books says it or not…
    Slavery, Racism is done mostly by Christians, Mass Murder, Considering Women as Lower Class, Child Marriages done mostly by Muslims, Caste System, Female Infanticide, Sati, Child Marriages done mostly by Hindus

  30. Puneet
    May 16, 2011 at 8:15 PM

    Sikhs are not Hindus. We are a different sect- who worship the One Almighty. Why is it that wherever I go… I always find people joining us with other religions, and cultures. In our own country we are stated and labeled by the government as “Hindus.” Where do our rights go, and what makes you come up with that statement? This is absurd. With a different identity, language, religion, scripture- and all the fights we’ve fought for India itself, until day- why aren’t we given our identity and rights. It’s been 500 years! And when we step up, and call for ourselves- we’re labeled as terrorists- that’s real nice of you guys. Being the majority of India,you have no right- to put my community in a label that fits your own rights.

  31. September 16, 2009 at 1:30 AM

    Babbar was unlikely to have spent anytime considering any other faith and was unlikley to have regarded hinduism(not that a such a term exsisted at the time) as a faith at all. Contrasting the past with the future it is a fact that what we regard today as hinduism has less correlations with Sikhism than say there are betwixt Christianity and Islam but these semitic faiths do not feel the need to claim ownership over the other, why do so many hindus feel this need? Also if you were to claim that someone was a hindu, what would that mean? What is the definition? Some believe in animal sacrifice, some in total sanctity of life, some eat faeces in graveyards whilst others purge themselves incessantly, some believe in a creator and some worship solely a idol, some believe in abstinence whilst others believe the divine is found in the act of sex, some tie rocks to their genitals, some castrate themselves in what they regard as a religious ritual, some perform a religious ceremon(devadasi) to enter a life of ‘blessed’ prostitution… how may accept the vedas and purans? How many have read them? According to the laws of Manu, how many would be allowed to hear let alone read them? Of those who have read them,how are their modern sensibilities affected by the stories of bestiality as in the rig veda? Who wrote them? Are these the canon of the faith? Is it a religion at all? Or is it more akin to a tradition, in the vein of paganism?

  32. prachetas
    September 12, 2009 at 11:35 AM

    @ansh

    The problem with many Indians today is that they buy propaganda of sheep brains like you and think that they are different from Hindus and Hinduism, but they forget that the semetic cults of Islam and Xtianity think otherwise. The best definition of Hindu ever given was by Babar and according to him, a person who isnt a Muslim or a christian is a Hindu. The stupid jains, buddists ad numerous others who were thinking that they were not Hindus perished in the onslaught.
    Every Indian can have grandeur visions of how independent and sophisticated he and his school of thought is, the name he would give to his cult, the tradition and beliefs he would follow, but that wont make an iota of a difference for the Abrahamic semetic cults which are pure political and un-spiritual movements started in uncivilized barbarian lands

  33. ansh
    September 12, 2009 at 9:12 AM

    As a guy, it would only be honest to confess that I have read a lot of Jain literature, almost became a shadhu while I was young, and have come across countless shlokas prefering males over females. Too many to mention. Scriptures are full of them. That is main social problem that Mahavira took an issue with. And no Jain I know think of themselves as Hindu. They think of them as Jain or often Gujaratis.

  34. May 12, 2009 at 10:36 PM

    give me some more information about this topc va e-mail

  35. Incognito
    March 11, 2009 at 8:49 AM

    @ Namita

    Attributing a quote to Vedas without specifying which sloka it is from and what is its context is not helpful in understanding, it will merely advance the cause of those who propagate lies against indian civilisation.

  36. Namita
    March 10, 2009 at 12:06 AM

    The Atharvaveda says, “The birth of a daughter, grant it elsewhere, here grant a son”.

    This is from our Indian Scriptures. this clearly shows a preference for the male child.

  37. sriram
    February 8, 2008 at 5:31 PM

    Actually sandeep Tamilnadu is the only state which deliberates the subject matter very transparatly through discussions in village panchayaths and educate the rural community particularly women through print,visual and street dramas explaing the evil of female infanticide. Due to this continous effort the ratio is slightly higher 986/1000 than other affected states.

  38. September 13, 2007 at 3:15 AM

    Sandeep wrote “The highest incidence of female infanticide in India is Tamil Nadu.”

    I asked myself why this is so and found the reason from a person in the census department in the state. The reason was that Tamil Nadu was the state that was tracking it with some sincerety. It was suspected that Punjab had the worst female infanticide with their sex ratio being so skewed. It was supposed to be a combination of infanticide and abortion after finding the sex, something not allowed in India too.

  39. nishtha
    August 1, 2007 at 5:50 PM

    thanku u .so much ur website helped me a lot in my projects thanks a lot

  40. Nikhilesh
    May 3, 2007 at 12:56 PM

    Sandeep,
    Excellent article!
    But I think neither religious nor social factors are that important regarding this brutal practice.
    If you see, all the religions were (some are) biased against women, only in practice & not in scripture generally.
    I think that the problem is generally with the male mindset of having domination & control. And certainly, women are nevr together to fight for their cause. It is the mother-in-law who asks for dowry.

    And speaking of dowry, it was just a gift given to the son-in-law, not a compulsion.
    Scriptures ask to marry a good women, even if she belongs to a poor family.

  41. Sandeep
    March 8, 2007 at 11:02 AM

    Sowmya,

    I read that link and I think it is pretty obnoxious. As I mentioned in my post, women were treated with immense respect in the Vedic period, upanayanam and all.

  42. Harish Duggirala
    March 8, 2007 at 9:47 AM

    “I partially agree. And please, Sikhs and Jains are Hindus.”

    I go by what those communities think, maybe the majority of Jains still see themselves as Hindu but most Sikhs do insist that they are not Hindu so why insist that they are.

    “The highest incidence of female infanticide in India is Tamil Nadu.”

    But isn’t that contrdicting the evidence, going by the sex ratios we can see that Punjab has one of the most skewed up sex ratios (much more than TN).

    Here is the link that lists the state wide sex ratio between the 0-6 age group:

    http://www.censusindia.net/results/provindia2.html

    For Tamil Nadu its 939 while for Punjab its 793.

  43. Vaishanava
    March 8, 2007 at 9:43 AM

    first of all, it is sex-selective abortion, not infanticide. If we were to give the number of aborted fetuses in western countries with extrapolations of all the missing children, it would also be very shocking. Wait, anti-abortion nuts already do that and nobody takes them seriously.

    Second, it is the upper classes who bought into the nehruvian population control propaganda. Sex selective abortion is just a consequence of such secularist propaganda. Same problem dynamic is seen in China.

    Another consequence of the population control propaganda is the muslim demographic bomb. I would not be surprised if excess mulla growth was the original nehruvian intent behind population control.

    about the solutions:

    Someone simply needs to tell the Jats and other affected communities/castes:

    IGNORE ALL THE NEHRIVIAN LIES ABOUT POPULATION CONTROL> ANY EXCESS POPULATION WILL BE EXPORTED TO THE DYING WEST.

    Sex-selective abortion will be history. Guaranteed.

    This is not about Sikh or Hindu views on women. Sikhs have unisex names. Hindus worship Goddesses.

  44. March 7, 2007 at 8:49 PM

    A little unrelated to your post..

    A while ago I actually read this crap about why women should not recite the gayatri mantra – which according to thisperson increases the testesterone levels and women will grow facial hair and won’t be able to breast feed etc. While in the vedic age women actually had the upanayanam done so that they could learn the vedas like their male counter parts.

  45. March 7, 2007 at 1:18 PM

    Harish, Sandeep,

    I suppose we never come to know about what the poor do ? But we do come to know of the actions of the upper classes.

    Like everyone knows that the poor consume drugs too. But the students in Pune are in the limelight… not the ones who consume drugs near Matunga/Parel railway tracks in Mumbai…

  46. Sandeep
    March 7, 2007 at 12:41 PM

    Tushar,

    >>However, my question was more about the actual practice. And Sandeep no its not really blown out of proportion if any of the statistics are correct.
    The actual practice” is basically a perversion. Ï repeat, you cannot trace female infanticide or even male-female superirority to ANY scripture or doctrine in Hinduism. On the contrary, all scriptures uphold the Female. If you pervert a noble doctrine and then blame the doctrine for your perversion, how does that work?

  47. Sandeep
    March 7, 2007 at 12:37 PM

    Harish,

    I partially agree. And please, Sikhs and Jains are Hindus.

    >>it seems as if someone gets “educated” and becomes more wealthy they become more greedy, certainly Dowry murders which are rampant in big cities occur less in the villages.
    this is a little contradictory: India has an overwhelming number of poor people and although your point on educated people murdering for dowry is well-taken, even a cursory reading of dowy death reports in the papers point to the low-income families. And two, my post was focussed on female infanticide, and I mentioned dowry as one of the main causes for it. The highest incidence of female infanticide in India is Tamil Nadu.

    Thanks.

  48. March 7, 2007 at 7:19 AM

    Thanks a lot Sandeep, I see the perfect need to defend the scriptures from leftist defiling. However, my question was more about the actual practice. And Sandeep no its not really blown out of proportion if any of the statistics are correct. Sure they could be. But if we believe the stats, then it is a huge problem, leave aside the communist and jihadi media nonsense.

  49. Harish Duggirala
    March 7, 2007 at 12:13 AM

    “That, majority cases of female infanticide occur in the poor/low income families is also a crucial point to note.”

    Actually Sandeep, that’s one of the things I doubt, because the communities with the highest female infanticide are the Sikhs followed by the Jains, both communities are by no means impoverished when compared with say a state like Bihar which is mostly Hindu, I think the opposite is true, female infanticide is the most rampant in communities that are the richest, it seems as if someone gets “educated” and becomes more wealthy they become more greedy, certainly Dowry murders which are rampant in big cities occur less in the villages.

    Check the male female ratio by religion here:

    http://www.censusindia.net/religiondata/index.html

  50. March 6, 2007 at 4:47 PM

    Yep, true. Sad to see pseudo-intellectuals who dont know a thing about Hinduism trashing it for all of India’s ills.

    Practices like female infanticide and sati are social problems, and not because Hinduism ordains these.

    F**king idiots !!

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