DUF becomes DDF
Wednesday, 9. May 2007 - 5:54 PM
The Hindu-hating clique that currently rules Tamil Nadu has spilt the stinking family milk on the streets.
Sibling rivalry in the ruling DMK got violent on Wednesday when two employees of Tamil newspaper Dinakaran were killed after a group of persons claiming to be supporters of DMK leader MK Azhagiri, elder son of Chief Minister K Karunanidhi attacked the newspaper’s office and set it afire.
In case you’re wondering what DUF and DDF stand for, here goes: Dravidian Undivided Family now turned to Dravidian Divided Family. Between them, they’ve screwed Tamil Nadu for all it is worth.
9. May 2007 - 9:57 PM
the family was always divided, during the DMK party elections, spat came out in the open, this is first time, and was expected.
secondly, the dravidian parties have not screwed tn, tn is better than many other states. they might have screwed tam brams with reservations, but that too is bullshit since the reservation system in TN isnt technically against merit.
9. May 2007 - 9:58 PM
and why do u moderate ur comments like the stupid leftist/socialist bloggers? are you also closed to debate like them?
10. May 2007 - 3:54 AM
Final count is three.
I am quite sure Modi had something to do with it. They just need to fire up the spycam.
10. May 2007 - 9:20 AM
The TN holocaust is a conspiracy by Hindu fundamentalists.Modi must resign immediately.
10. May 2007 - 9:46 AM
Now even backdated stings are allowed.
Concerned Citizen,
Secular Republic of India.
10. May 2007 - 10:31 AM
Vatsan,
>>secondly, the dravidian parties have not screwed tn, tn is better than many other states.
You need to back up that statement with some proof.
>>they might have screwed tam brams with reservations, but that too is bullshit since the reservation system in TN isnt technically against merit.
Really? So what explains the almost whole sale migration of Tam Brams to other states/countries?
>>and why do u moderate ur comments like the stupid leftist/socialist bloggers? are you also closed to debate like them?
You could’ve been a bit more polite in your tone. And for one, stop making assumptions. I DO NOT moderate comments. Ever cared to check my blog for the several M & B gaalis I’ve received–yes, I’ve approved those comments. If my spam filter suspects a comment to be spam, it puts them in the moderation queue for approval. Now, looking forward to your debate…
10. May 2007 - 12:27 PM
I blame BJP
I hope election commission will derecognize BJP, further Advani, Vajpayeee and Rajnath Singh will be sentenced to life imprisonment and Gandhis declared as the eternal ruler by papal bull.
10. May 2007 - 12:28 PM
Vatsan,
If I was not a “indhi” speaking fella, I would have asked you to lighten up.
10. May 2007 - 1:02 PM
Now that I have a chance, I’d like to have a swipe at the Tamil Nadu government in typical The Hindu ishtyle: The shameless and brutal attack on the office of a newspaper in Madurai is deeply condemnable. It comes as a shock to the conscience that the mischievous elements had targetted a media institution. It is not merely an attack on the newspaper but also an attack on democracy, tolerance, freedom of expression and secularism. Such mindless violence threatens the democratic nature and the secular fabric of this country and so needs to be condemned in the strongest terms. It is deeply regrettable that the police, entrusted with the duty of protecting innocent lives, have not taken any action against the miscreants. This speaks volumes of the support that the government has given to the rioting crowds by giving them a free hand to kill and burn at will. This also hints at the participation of communal elements. Our distinguished reporter, who has been elevated to new heights of fame after her ground breaking expose during the Sohrabuddin episode, Neena Vyas, has documentary evidence to prove the participation of RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal goons in the attack. However, because none of those injured or dead is a Muslim, we cannot communalize this issue. We deeply regret our utter helplessness at the lack of opportunity in this issue to pursue secular agenda. The government should immediately take action to bring the perpetrators of this horrible crime to book without showing any favours to anybody. Secular media, intellectuals and civil society should also take note of the new trend being adopted by the communal forces – they dont leave behind any clues. However, as this constitutes a threat to the secular fabric of the country, they should maintain their vigil against the violent activities, the vicious agenda and the hateful propaganda of the communal forces.
10. May 2007 - 4:54 PM
sandeep, there are two layers to this reservation debate, the perceived bias and the actual bias. the tambrams migrated because of perceived bias in the system, 69% of the seats reserved, 95% of population is backward, doesnt really change the picture rite? if you do look @ cutoffs the differences between BC/MBC and OC will be just a couple of marks.
ST/SC its lower by bout 10 marks since the Sc St list adding is harder. the reservation system in TN doesnt go against merit at all.
my comments were under the moderation, so i presumed like the socialist/left bloggers use the excuse of trolls to avoid comments which u might not be comfortable with.
10. May 2007 - 4:59 PM
and sandeep, if the reservation system was so biased against those who dont benefit from it, how come large scale migration has happened only in the case of tambrams, while the nagarathars and saiva pillais have not migrated in such large numbers? both these castes too dont benefit from reservation
10. May 2007 - 6:25 PM
>>
“..while the nagarathars and saiva pillais have not migrated in such large numbers? both these castes too dont benefit from reservation”
Well,fortunately or unfortunately,TamBrahms were THE most despised people in TN.
That’s reason enough to migrate.And they are none the worse for it.
10. May 2007 - 6:27 PM
Vastan,
Thanks for clarifying. My point about tambrams is more incidental in the larger scheme of things. I recently read a book which explores in complete detail how the Constitution has been totally twisted to implement reservations in TN.
As for the migration of Tam Brams, I don’t have enough knowledge as to the actual reason: perhaps your point about perception is right, and perhaps there’s something else. So I won’t push that point further. More knowledgeable commenters might want to throw light on this.
>>so i presumed like the socialist/left bloggers use the excuse of trolls to avoid comments which u might not be comfortable with.
Happy that this blog is not in that category?
10. May 2007 - 7:14 PM
sandeep, my point is that due to the corruption etc, its an easy conclusion to make that the dravidian parties screwed tn, but is that really true? TN is way better of than other states in india, despite the politicians not being the most presentable, and often making stupid remarks which might embarrass tamilians outside the state, having to defend our politicians, its a simplistic and quick judgement to say that the dravidian parties screwed tn. thanks to the dravidian parties we are spared of the congress and its divisive politics in tn. ever wondered why muslim fundamentalism has no support in tn? dravidian politics, if it were the congress they wud have divided tn onto religious lines and tn would face the brunt of muslim fundamentalism.
10. May 2007 - 7:18 PM
Sri, its a pity the tambrams could not distinguish between political rhetoric and real action. and periyar wanted to break the caste system, which was linked to religion, and tambrams being upholders of hinduism got caught in the cross fire.
sandeep, yes constitution has been twisted to suit the needs of reservation in TN, but the constitution was written by people who were insensitive to the needs of individual states, therefore i don see anything wrong in changing it. most stuff decided in delhi is insensitive to the needs of tamils and i don see why it should not be changed to suit the needs of the state.
10. May 2007 - 10:23 PM
Vatsan, you claim that people who take decisions in Delhi are insensitive to Tamils. Insensitive of what matters? Can you elaborate? As far as I can see, Tamil Nadu is the biggest bully in the Indian federation. You have succeeded in bullying the Centre to force Karnataka to disproaportionately share its river waters (inspite of being an upper riparian state) with your state. You have continuously disregarded the reservation limit of 50% set by the highest court of the land. Your bullish attitude is so pervasive that non-Tamil people should always think twice before they offer criticism (even if it is positive and sane). Everything degenerates into a Tamil vs. Non Tamil issue. Yet you talk like an oppressed and colonialised people. You speak as if you’re from some remote place in the Northeast (a place which is truly neglected). Your claims about the Constitution are hollow and hypocritical. You claim that it was written by people who are insensitive to Tamil issues. Yet you are experts at invoking articles of the same Constitution whenever it suits you, as in river water sharing. You should shed this negative attitude. Stop claiming victimhood always. Your frequent claims to high culture and victimhood frequently coincide with those of Islamists. Both of you are ever so eager to flaunt your culture in front of others. Both of you claim that you and your cultures or language or religion are eternally under attack from outside. Both of you are also intolerant of criticism, even when it is fair. Both of you are experts at claiming victimhood at the first hint of criticism from other people. Both of you try to gain maximum from the same systems that you frequently accuse of being insensitive to your issues. Another thing that both of you woefully lack is introspection.
10. May 2007 - 10:32 PM
Atlantean,
*Clap clap clap*
10. May 2007 - 10:38 PM
aaha, Atlantean, let me respond to individual points, first reservation, no one inside tn is complaining, why does it matter how high the % of reservation is to those outside TN? doesnt really matter does it? none of their business.
second, karnataka, i don see what is wrong with that. why shud we be kind and fair enough to share the water? we as capitalists will try to get as much as we possibly can. nothing wrong in that.
and with regards to the constitution, well we do have to follow it rite? so i dont see the problem in using it. and the victim hood bit, maybe i should refresh history, back when lal bahadur sashrti came to power, he decided to impose hindi on tn, including govt communication. this was against nehrus promise that states would have the choice of opting for hindi or not after 20 years of independence. sashrti went against that promise. and its only now, after the dmk became a part of the govt that the state is having its demands met. the sethusamudram project demanded for over 2 decades, but its only now after controlling 40 mps that its being considered. what is wrong in using the power? being a capitalist, one would maximise their welfare through the means at their disposal. that is all tn is doing, any other state would do that.
we are open to criticism, sandeep has said that the dravidian parties screwed tn, he didnt say how they screwed tn, well in my opinion they did not screw tn.
finally, the north indians seem to forget that the entire nation does not speak hindi, one of the frequent things ive encountered is that the north indians expect an auto driver in madras to speak hindi, why should he? he speaks tamil. this kind of insensitivity is what makes the tamilians feel that they are second class citizens. even the tv channels, IBN is an english news channel, for their videos, the hindi bits dont have subtitles, does this mean that they expect everyone to speak hindi? why should everyone speak hindi? IBN i understand is a private news channel, but then their attitude can be used as a proxy for the general attitude of those in north india. such subtle actions cause resentment amongst the tamilians.
10. May 2007 - 10:40 PM
a capitalist is concerned only with his personal welfare and uses the means at his disposal to achieve it, and actively increase his personal welfare.
my understanding frm adam smiths definition of capitalism.
10. May 2007 - 10:44 PM
ooh and the net welfare gain from claiming victimhood is more than not doing so, therefore i dont see why we should not. we want to increase our welfare, plain and simple.
10. May 2007 - 10:54 PM
“aaha, Atlantean, let me respond to individual points, first reservation, no one inside tn is complaining”
Patently false….
“why shud we be kind and fair enough to share the water”
It is Karnataka which is sharing water not TamilNadu. Erstwhile Mysore state
“my understanding frm adam smiths definition of capitalism.”
This could be Nilu’s definition, it is certainly not Adam Smith’s definition….
10. May 2007 - 11:01 PM
//It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages. Nobody but a beggar chooses to depend chiefly upon the benevolence of his fellow-citizens.//
Wealth of nations – Adam Smith.
we al function according to our own self interest, which is increasing ones welfare. TN did that, why should TN give water benevolently to Karnataka? Especially when it can bully into getting a higher share.
And Gaurav, who inside tn is complaining? except for the tambrams, where ive clearly explained the difference between perceived bias and actual bias. Secondly, in what way has TN been screwed up? That is is worse than any of the indian states like UP bihar etc? And Dravidian parties saved TN from Congress and its divisive politics.
10. May 2007 - 11:05 PM
Vatsan,
I hate getting in to these kind of ”debates” but tell me,
How many languages is CNN-IBN supposed to translate its Hindi content so no one feels neglected?
By and By, How many people understand English in this country especially in North India? I don’t recall anyone claiming victim hood because they are unable to understand the language.
Second, you argument that why should people bother if TN has 69% reservations when people in TN allegedly don’t is wrong again. As long as TN or any other state for that matter is part of the union, everyone has the right to express concern especially since TN politicians cite the ”success” of TN model and expect the rest of the country to adopt their model. Who si the first to shoot off his mouth whenever any questions are raised about reservations in ITT/IIMs?
10. May 2007 - 11:10 PM
confused, being an english channel, IBN shud translate nto english, english is the lingua franca of this nation. the politicians in tn dont expect the country to emulate their model, under their model 95% of india is backward, which does not go against metirocracy at all. other states can express their concern about adopting the model in tn, which is fine, but they have no right ot decide how reservation is implemented within tn, that is infringing on the freedom of the tamils to decide their affairs.
when the constitution was amended, it was done to allow reservations in tn, there was no pressure from tn to make it universal, given that there was no such pressure, other states should respect the independence of tn and allow it ot decide on issues concerning its own affairs.
10. May 2007 - 11:20 PM
Discrimination on basis of caste which is what reservation is not TamilNadu’s own affairs.
10. May 2007 - 11:22 PM
And since when English became lingua franca language of the world……
10. May 2007 - 11:28 PM
aaha now gaurav, who gave u the authority what is TNs own affairs and what is not? now rather than just making statements, why dont u elaborate on those points, and explain why.
secondly, english is te only language which is voluntarily learnt by everyone in india, therefore is the lingua franca.
10. May 2007 - 11:40 PM
confused, CNNIBN is an english news channel, therefore i wud expect english subtitles.
by not providing them, they make the implicit assumption that those who speak enlgish understand english, which is utter crap and is an affront to someone people from tamil nadu.
11. May 2007 - 12:09 AM
Vatsan,
TamilNadu has no sovereignity, neither is it indivisible. it can be reorganized and dissolved by following steps constitutional steps by central government. It is part of India, which means as Indian I have full authority to judge what are TamilNadu’s damned affairs and what are not. If you feel otherwise, start a mutiny and if you succeed establish a Dravid Nadu, and when Prabharakan comes to screw, do not whine.
Also stop complaining that north indians are “bully” and claiming that you have a right to “bully” Karnataka at the same time.
11. May 2007 - 1:24 AM
Vatsan,
That is a fallacious argument. Tamil Nadu is not a sovereign nation and it is bound by the laws of the nation. Can the Tamil Nadu government tomorrow declare murder as legal and declare no one has the authority to interfere in the rights of Tamils? Is the Supreme Court monitoring of the fake encounter in Gujarat an interference in the life of Gujaratis?
Second, you quote Adam Smith and then you are angry that IBN live does not translate Hindi bits into English. Its the market stupid! Maybe IBN live simply doesn’t care enough about its Tamil viewers in which case I suggest simply take it as an example of market at work and not watch it anymore, instead of seeing it as an assault on Tamils!
11. May 2007 - 6:11 AM
Gaurav,
that is the problem with indian federalism, the center is too damn strong. confused, the IBN was just a proxy for a wider trend, i never said that IBN was assaulting the tamils, i used it as a proxy, there is a difference. THis just indicates the peoples attitude, which gives rise to tamil nationalism.
secondly, confused, drawing a parallel,between reservation and fake encounters is stretching it a bit too far. my entire argument is when no one inside TN is complaining, except the tambrams, who perceive it as a problem, i dont see why the anti reservationists are taking it up. as simple as that. no one in tamil nadu is saying that this model has to be adopted, Mandal commission did not follow this model, under this circumstance, why do u force TN to follow the model prescribed by the supreme court, when 95% of the population is backward. what is wrong with 69% reservations?
Why do you people raise this issue now, when IIT/IIM reservations are being implemented, rather than earlier? This system was in place for over a 2 decades, none of you seem to be bothered then. it seems a sore point now, because it is being used as an excuse by Arjun SIngh to usher in reservation in IIT/IIM. the two issues are different.
11. May 2007 - 6:15 AM
Gaurav, your point is the problem with indian fedralism, the state is not an indestructible unit, and the center is way to powerful. and please understand capitalists, no i am not saying TN has a right to bully karnataka or the center, rather there is nothing wrong in doing so, as you point out.
lets say that u are given 10,000 bucks to be shared amongst 3 people. there are two options, one either u share equally, or else two is to try and get the maximum amount possible, ie more than 1/3. any sane person would opt for the latter because they want to maximise their welfare, which is what TN is doing. if you think that is being selfish, then you speak the language of the socialists
11. May 2007 - 9:20 AM
@Vatsan
Please read the responses carefully before arguing for the sake of arguing
I want to show 2 responses
1)gaurav said
“Also stop complaining that north indians are “bully†and claiming that you have a right to “bully†Karnataka at the same time. ” which is a valid point
2)confused said
“By and By, How many people understand English in this country especially in North India? I don’t recall anyone claiming victim hood because they are unable to understand the language.”
You are just showing that you are intolerant, by not considering other’s points. As someone earlier pointed out your arguments are very similar to islamofascists
and finally please respomd to comments with a cool head
11. May 2007 - 9:26 AM
You said
>>Gaurav, your point is the problem with indian fedralism, the state is not an indestructible unit, and the center is way to powerful. and please understand capitalists, no i am not saying TN has a right to bully karnataka or the center, rather there is nothing wrong in doing so, as you point out.
“rather there is nothing wrong in doing so”
NOw exactly , a similar argument on the basis of capitalism, cnn ibn feels it can get away with same profit without spending extra money for translation/subtitles. why should it care about how you feel
11. May 2007 - 10:18 AM
Vatsan,
On Reservation:
1. That no one is complaining in TN is incorrect. There are many General Category students who oppose reservations.
2. Breaking News: We are ONE nation. So whatever happens in TN concerns me as well. So I’d like to have a say on what happens in TN.
3. That those outside TN shouldnt talk about what happens inside it confirms my claim that you are intolerant of criticism. You make specious arguments to discredit others’ criticism. An opinion doesnt become invalidated merely because it comes from outside TN.
11. May 2007 - 10:19 AM
Vatsan,
On Karnataka:
“second, karnataka, i don see what is wrong with that. why shud we be kind and fair enough to share the water? we as capitalists will try to get as much as we possibly can. nothing wrong in that.”
1. Nobody is asking you to be KIND! Karnataka is simply asking you LAY OFF its own rightful share of water. It’s not as if you are doing a big favour to them. This supremacist “me first, care a damn for others” attitude is another parallel between you and Islamists.
2. Small lesson on capitalism: Interstate water sharing is NOT capitalism. The Tamil Nadu Government is NOT a capitalist. The deal (it was hardly one since one side was forced into it against its will) was between two PUBLIC entities: The Karnataka Govt and The Tamil Nadu Govt, and NOT TWO INDIVIDUALS. Moreover, Tamil Nadu is NOT buying water from Karnataka. You “get as much as you can” and pay for it. But when you dont pay for something, you are grabbing or stealing it… under duress. In colloquial Indian English, you will be called a goonda or a rowdy. And what you do becomes daylight robbery, not capitalism.
11. May 2007 - 10:21 AM
On the Constitution and Governance:
1. As for your claim that the Constitution was written by people who were insensitive to Tamil issues (what are these issues? You havent elaborated yet. Why dont you put them in words?), I must present some hard facts:
In the Drafting Committee of the Constitution, THREE of the 7-member committee were TAMILIANS: Gopalaswamy Ayyangar, Alladi Krishnaswami Aiyar, T. T. Krishnamachari. Surely, they wouldnt have been “insensitive” to Tamil issues, even if disinterested?
2. As for your claim that people in Delhi who make decisions are insensitive to Tamil issues, I must point out that FIVE members of the Indian Cabinet are Tamilians, all of them in crucial posts: Finance, Communications, Shipping, Health and another one. Surely, they wouldnt have been “insensitive” to Tamil issues, even if disinterested? Moreover, Tamilians are a very visible part of the Indian admininstration (bureaucracy.) Many top posts are occupied by Tamilians.
11. May 2007 - 10:30 AM
On Hindi and Sethusamudram:
1. The Central Govt. was wrong in doing that but perhaps you can learn from your neighbours that introduction of Hindi in schools did not exterminate Telugu and Kannada in those states, nor did it harm their culture. People of these states are usually comfortable when they go to North India because they can read, write and speak Hindi. Its both a cultural and economic advantage that they have. Yet they havent lost their Teluguness or Kannadaness. This completely discredits the Tamil chauvinist theory that introduction of Hindi will harm the Tamil language or culture.
2. The Sethusamudram Project is a complex issue. There are many who are FOR the project outside Tamil Nadu, many who are AGAINST. There are many who are FOR and AGAINST the project INSIDE Tamil Nadu as well. So, this is not a Tamil vs. non-Tamil issue.
3. You say:
“finally, the north indians seem to forget that the entire nation does not speak hindi, one of the frequent things ive encountered is that the north indians expect an auto driver in madras to speak hindi, why should he?”
Because north Indians cant speak Tamil! Is that so difficult to understand? Should you not try to welcome a person from outside your state, who cannot speak your language, instead of giving him a big headache on language merely? But I’ve noticed that Tamils dont respond even if a North Indian speaks to them in ENGLISH! What’s the problem with English then? What about foreigners (the white skinned ones)? They also cant speak Tamil to auto drivers. How come Tamil people in Chennai are always eager to get them into their autos and to buy their goods?
“this kind of insensitivity is what makes the tamilians feel that they are second class citizens. ”
Oooooh! Ooooh! Insensitivity… what insensitivity? That others dont speak your language? Is that ALL? So you become second class citizens simply because others dont speak your language? That’s a completely ILLOGICAL, UNSCIENTIFIC and FALSE statement that should be exposed for its hollowness by every right thinking person.
This is what I call “claiming victimhood.” You claim victimhood when there’s no reason at all to feel victimised or when the reasons are too feeble. If a Tamilian comes to Hyderabad, starts speaking in Tamil to the autowallah, Hyderabadis cannot claim that the attitude of the Tamils causes resentment among Hyderabadis. That’s foolish and INFANTILE.
“even the tv channels, IBN is an english news channel, foro their videos, the hindi bits dont have subtitles, does this mean that they expect everyone to speak hindi? why should everyone speak hindi? IBN i understand is a private news channel, but then their attitude can be used as a proxy for the general attitude of those in north india. such subtle actions cause resentment amongst the tamilians.”
First, IBN is a private channel and it has the right to telecast whatever it wants in whatever language it wants. Today’s TV channels are governed purely by the market. If you dont like to watch, you have a right not to watch. Please remember that you are watching IBN out of your own choice. Nobody is forcing you to watch IBN.
Frankly, if IBN is not displaying Hindi transcripts, it is IBN’s loss because it will be losing its Tamil subscriber base. That should make you happy.
Moreoever, I dont know how you claim that IBN’s attitude reflects the attitude of north Indians as a whole. That’s a giant leap in logic.
Second, to argue that a channel not displaying transcripts in Tamil will cause resentment among Tamilians is foolish in the extreme! As I said earlier, that’s an infantile claim.
11. May 2007 - 10:37 AM
Vatsan,
I have read all your other comments around here and I’ve noticed a glaring lack of logical reasoning in your arguments. Most of your arguments can easily be discredited by evidence and logic. It’ll be better if you think thoroughly before you post anything here. You’d be wasting your own and others’ time.
A few examples:
1. When people dont speak Tamil to autodrivers when they come to Chennai causes resentment among Tamilians.
2. If IBN doesnt display English transcripts, it will cause resentment among Tamils and make them feel second class citizens.
3. CNN-IBN can be used “as a proxy for north India.” In other words, CNN-IBN represents the attitude of north Indians in general.
All these claims are illogical, unscientific and false. They have more propangandist value than intellectual value.
11. May 2007 - 10:39 AM
*Correction:
In comment 36, please read “Hindi transcripts” and “transcripts in Tamil” as “English transcripts.”
11. May 2007 - 11:41 AM
Vatsan
“Gaurav, your point is the problem with indian fedralism, the state is not an indestructible unit, and the center is way to powerful”
Federalism is a complex subject, and the discussion on it is not suitable to comment. But let me say this Indian federalism is not same as American federalism. States in India are not watertight entities and were not a sovereign entitities.
During last decade Uttarakhad, Jharkhand and Chattisgarh became states. Today Vidarbh and Telangana are clamouring for it, Some parts of North Karnataka and North Bengal are getting restive.
Tomorrow it is possible that Madurai decides that they want nothing to do with chennai or Telugus living in North Chennai decide to join AP, or heavens forbid maravaris decide to join Rajasthan, what then ?
“lets say that u are given 10,000 bucks to be shared amongst 3 people. there are two options, one either u share equally, or else two is to try and get the maximum amount possible, ie more than 1/3. any sane person would opt for the latter because they want to maximise their welfare, which is what TN is doing. if you think that is being selfish, then you speak the language of the socialists ”
Sorry, this is not capitalism this is robbery.
” my entire argument is when no one inside TN is complaining, except the tambrams, who perceive it as a problem, i dont see why the anti reservationists are taking it up”
Yes except the tambrams and who cares about them, as I said somewhere else Tambrams should thank us unwashed northies otherwise in Dravid Nadu Dravidians might have put gassed them like jews.
It is immaterial what anyone inside TamilNadu is agreeing or not, as long as it is part of India it is Indian principles which are relevant and every Indian has right to point out.
11. May 2007 - 12:03 PM
before commenting on reservation, read its impact on tn, who is whinning, and then comment. its the tambrams who left tn, not those in tn. and the jews remark, good laugh.
and as far as capitalism, not my problem. its capitalism, plain and simple.
11. May 2007 - 12:08 PM
please tell me the % of population outside of reservatin in TN, let me list them for you
1) tambrams: 3%
2) Nagarathars
2) Saiva Pilla
4) Sengutha Mudhiliars
4) Kamma Naidu,
totally they are 5% of the population. 95% is backward, 69% is reserved. WHy shud they complain? and it isnt against metirocracy. and when i am saying there is a distinction between perceived bias and actual bias. even without reservation, cut offs wont change much so why shud they complain?
11. May 2007 - 12:13 PM
and why shud tn introduce hindi? if people’s survival depends on hindi, they will learn it. forget culture shulture argument. the idea that hindi is national language therefore tn shud introduce it is stupid, why?
and with TN doing economically well, it is hardly an issue that they dont know hindi, anyway people will learn the language.
Atlantean, youve twisted my arguments, that doesnt make sense to me. i said people expecting tamilians to speak hindi causes resentment, not that they dont speak tamil.
11. May 2007 - 12:26 PM
” Its the tambrams who left tn, not those in tn.”
????
Look if you want to say that you do not consider Tambrams with Aryan blood in them to be Tamil, please say so, because otherwise what you are saying is making no freaking sense to me.
“the jews remark, good laugh.”
Well why not, it could have been, overall I see not much difference between Nazis and Dravidians, thankfully we will never know what would have happened to tambrams.
” even without reservation, cut offs wont change much so why shud they complain?”
Reservation discriminates on basis of caste, state (meaning government)can not discriminate on basis of caste or creed or religion, it is a moral requirement of government.
But I find something interesting let me ask the question if cutoffs are not going to change that much then why have reservation at all.
Is it because it is not about “Social Justice”, but the priviledge of remaining “Backward”, so as to claim “eternal victimhood”, so as to appropriate “Unquestioned moral authority”, so as to have a bogeyman as “the sly brahmin”, so as to have monopoly over framing “political narrative”.
And for the last time Capitalism is freedom of economic transaction “within” the framework of law. Discrimination is not capitalism, nor is slavery.
11. May 2007 - 3:24 PM
gaurav, i dont think you understand thehttp://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/09/duf-becomes-ddf/
Seriously Sandeep » DUF becomes DDF dravidian movement itself. there is a huge difference between then and the nazis, dont make such stupid remarks. take some time to read Periyar (i guess ther wud be some translation, or some commentary on the movement itself). without doing that dont shoot your mouth off that the nazis and dravidians are alike. its just shows ur ignorance and stupidity.
there were a bunch of tambrams, who migrated to places like delhi and bombay way back in the 70s and 80s. they have been away from tn for so long that they do not know what is the ground reality. the ground reality is that things are not as bad as they claim it is. its easier to get some reputed educated director/prof frm some institute in delhi (who ve been away from TN so for so long that they dont know whats happening), and these guys constantly draw the jews example because they first could not differentiate between rhetoric and action and secondly they ve been away for so long that they dont know the ground realities. all that brahmin bashing was just rhetoric, none was action. By the 80s when TN started to perform well economically, the dravidian movement lost it relevance, and along with it the brahmin bashing died. the only time its invoked is in the current reservation debate.
coming to reservation, the entire system in TN is for psychological victory, thats all. thats the entire point of reservation, its just a psychological victory for the OBCs/Dalits that they have managed to wrestle some of the seats from the forward castes, it was never meant to actually uplift those really backward. secondly, its the easiest way of showing that the dravidian politicians are doing something. with reservations the dravidians feel that they have been granted justice for the 4000 years (claimed) denial of education to them by the brahmins in tn. its psychological, not meant to actually have any impact.
i notice that your trying to conclude on my background. let me help you, i am a tamilian, my name is srivatsan. that should give u ample insight into my background.
11. May 2007 - 4:50 PM
I have read some writings of periyar, he was nothing but self serving demagogue. Present society of tamilnadu is testimony to the Darvidian movement, of all the four states of south, it is the most insular, and intolerant.
Yes things are not as bad as previously, the reason is Brahmins have been purged, first from administration, then from public conscious. Brahmins are almost pariah in
Oppression for 4000 years, or is it 5000 years or is it 20000 years? Where do you get figures from, thin air ??
And what about dalits ? They are still being victimized by the middle castes,but I guess it is better to be screwed by a vanniyar than by iyengar I guess.
You are partly right Dravidian movement is about psycho, not logy though it is psychopathy, sheer lunacy.
I don’t think it is very difficult to gauge your background.
11. May 2007 - 6:31 PM
@vatsan
You still havent responed to this
You said
>>Gaurav, your point is the problem with indian fedralism, the state is not an indestructible unit, and the center is way to powerful. and please understand capitalists, no i am not saying TN has a right to bully karnataka or the center, rather there is nothing wrong in doing so, as you point out.
“rather there is nothing wrong in doing soâ€
NOw exactly , a similar argument on the basis of capitalism, cnn ibn feels it can get away with same profit without spending extra money for translation/subtitles. why should it care about how you feel
)
11. May 2007 - 7:49 PM
Gaurav, being a tambram, i can vouch for the fact that things are not as bad as you think they are. secondly, i think the dravidan movement brought about some amount of unity amongst the brahmins, which was not there earlier. the variou caste associations help the needy in their caste, the brahmins did not have ne such association until the dravidan movement came along. until then the iyers and iyengars were fighting, and even amongst the iyengars, there was a huge battle between the vadagalai and thenkalai. the dravidian movement put an end to all this and brought about some amount of unity. I think the brahmins in Tn are better off than in other states, such as up, where caste favouritism is way more open. despite the movement, the brahmins are not hated as you would believe. and finally, administration? why would any sane guy opt for IAS when IT pays much more?
11. May 2007 - 10:05 PM
@vatsan
>>I think the brahmins in Tn are better off than in other states
Whoa!!!….ROTFLMAO!!
12. May 2007 - 8:23 PM
“take some time to read Periyar (i guess ther wud be some translation, or some commentary on the movement itself). without doing that dont shoot your mouth off that the nazis and dravidians are alike. its just shows ur ignorance and stupidity.”
That loser Periyar was not even Tamil, he was exactly similar to the Nazis and a traitor to India (remember his unabashed support for the Muslim league and non stop british arse licking).
What can we expect from brainwashed people like you, you claim that cnn-ibn is insensitive to Tamilians (which is also supposed to translate into the general attitude of North Indians) but you worship a man who said that Tamil was a language of the barbarians.
Venkatesan Garu (a Tamil Dalit by the way just so that the DMK goons don’t get their nickers in a twist about the evil Tambram conspiracy) has written a book in Tamil about the great deeds of “Periyar” the “saviour of Tamils”.
Some extracts can be found here:
http://www.newstodaynet.com/2006sud/06mar/0803ss1.htm
http://www.tamilnation.org/books/Politics/venkatesan.htm
People can read the gems that fell out of Periyar’s mouth and see how he “served” the Tamil language.
This extreme chauvunism displayed by the likes of DMK is exactly why other South Indians scoff at the idea of a “Dravidanadu” contrary to the wet dreams of many Dravidianists.
As for Hindi, well I learned Hindi and I am better with it, but I would have preferred Sanskrit since it is the link language in the sense that a considerable part of the vocabulary of many Indian languages is derived from Sanskrit.
13. May 2007 - 12:37 AM
Vatsan,
a) How do you know everyone in TN agrees with 69% reservation? How do you know everyone is happy? How can you speak for tambrams or dalits or anyone else except yourself?
b) It is immaterial if 99.99% of people agree with something or not. The whole constitutional framework exists or at least is supposed to exists to serve the needs of an individual Even if a single person is disagress and finds the T.N situation unconstitutional, he has the right to complaint. Obviously someone has, because the T.N. reservation has been pending in the Supreme Court for last 14 years. In fact, every year the state of TamilNadu creates extra seats so as to accommodate general category students who would have been admitted to professional colleges if the reservation had been 50%.
c) You seem to suggest that T.N. be left alone because it doesn’t interfere in the rest of the country. Who apart from Arjun Singh is shouting most for OB.C. reservations. It is Karunanidhi of course! Nothing wrong in that, as a citizen of this country Karunanidhi has much right to make his case as anyone else but then so has I to demand constitutional accountability from T.N government.
Finally, it depends on you. For you It seems, a larger Tamil identity subsumes every other identity and you continue to pretend that everything is fine in T.N and including caste is not a factor in T.N. May I point out that apart from U.P, T.N has probably the most number of caste partie: P.M.K and Dalit Panthers to give just two examples. In facT, Karunanidhi recently declared that his government was a government of the non-upper castes, by the non-upper castes, and for the non-upper castes. So much for all being hunky dory in Tamil Nadu!
13. May 2007 - 8:17 AM
confused if u cannot distinguish between political rhetoric and real substance, i pity you. MK has to make those to get votes, but in reality on the ground he cannot do much.
13. May 2007 - 8:19 AM
and as far as periyar goes, he did not do much for the dalits, agreed. his main aims were to bring the entire mookolathu thevars (the OBCs) onto one plank, which he achieved. in south tn it is the very same OBCs who are oppressing the dalits.
13. May 2007 - 8:21 AM
and confused, reservation in TN is restricted to seats which are aided by the government. those seats which donot benefit from govt grants are not under reservation. for students who are admitted to those seats, the mgmt of various colleges gives them scholarship based on their 12th performance. RKM Vivekanands for instance has numerous scholarships for those doing well in the 12 (and must be tambram) in the evening college.
its the UPA which brought in reservation in pvt sector educational institutions (in the mgmt quota not funded by the govt) whch fucked up the entire system.
13. May 2007 - 8:25 AM
and as far as caste being a factor in tn, its quite big, i dont seem to deny that. the entire issue is that those commenting here seem to compare the dravidan movement with nazis, which i think is unfair because the movement is dead from the 1980s, the moment a tambram became the head of a dravidian party, the movement died. most people commenting here donot seem to understand the reality on ground in tn before commenting/judging what is going on.
13. May 2007 - 8:31 AM
and today, the voting is not based on ideology of periyar, rather based on tv and lpg gasses, religion is bck in tn in full swing, and therefore the movement is now dead. only a few politicians are keeping it alive. no one in tn cares about them to a large extent, and it is the very same dravidian governments which have ushered in economic progress in tn, taking the advice of the tambrams (yes the tvs family did have a significant role in convincing mgr and his ilk to usher in econimc liberalisation), the point is that painting them as nazis because of their past ideologies, which was just political rhetoric is unfair to them.
13. May 2007 - 10:01 AM
Vatsan,
You still havent put in words what you mean by “Tamil issues.” Please do.
You said:
Atlantean, youve twisted my arguments, that doesnt make sense to me. i said people expecting tamilians to speak hindi causes resentment, not that they dont speak tamil.
No I havent twisted your arguments. If you expect a Hindi speaking person who comes to Chennai NOT to speak in Hindi, then it follows that you expect him to speak in Tamil. Alternatively, you’d like him/her to speak in English instead of Hindi. But even an English speaking north Indian is not received properly by the autowallahs. Forget about north Indians. People from even Karnataka and AP face this problem if they speak in any language other than Tamil.
21. May 2007 - 8:15 PM
Ok Vatsan,
forget it.. we will never visit TN..