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	<title>Comments on: Short of Hindu Fascism</title>
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	<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/</link>
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		<title>By: Abhijit</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-181842</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhijit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-181842</guid>
		<description>HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY SEEN CHANDRAMOHAN&#039;S PAINITNGS? CAN YOU PLEASE PUT IT UP ON THE WEBSITE??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY SEEN CHANDRAMOHAN&#8217;S PAINITNGS? CAN YOU PLEASE PUT IT UP ON THE WEBSITE??</p>
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		<title>By: Seriously Sandeep &#187; &#8230;the Fascism Debate Continues Here</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180839</link>
		<dc:creator>Seriously Sandeep &#187; &#8230;the Fascism Debate Continues Here</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 16:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180839</guid>
		<description>[...] My questions to Amit Varma&#8217;s fascism post stirred up quite a debate. Work kept me from responding to Amit&#8217;s responses. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My questions to Amit Varma&#8217;s fascism post stirred up quite a debate. Work kept me from responding to Amit&#8217;s responses. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: amit varma</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180826</link>
		<dc:creator>amit varma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 11:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180826</guid>
		<description>OT, you write: &quot;You do have the resources to organize protests. You have your blog.&quot;

I did protest it on my blog. But the resources you need to organise a real-world protest involves tons of time, volunteers to make banners etc, someone to organise a venue etc, and I do not have all this, especially time. All I have is the blog, and my post in support of the Danish cartoonists is one of my most-read posts ever.

As for Ashok&#039;s piece, Ashok is a good friend of mine, but he lives in Delhi, and my post was not based just on other press reports but also on first-hand reports from people at the scene in Baroda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT, you write: &#8220;You do have the resources to organize protests. You have your blog.&#8221;</p>
<p>I did protest it on my blog. But the resources you need to organise a real-world protest involves tons of time, volunteers to make banners etc, someone to organise a venue etc, and I do not have all this, especially time. All I have is the blog, and my post in support of the Danish cartoonists is one of my most-read posts ever.</p>
<p>As for Ashok&#8217;s piece, Ashok is a good friend of mine, but he lives in Delhi, and my post was not based just on other press reports but also on first-hand reports from people at the scene in Baroda.</p>
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		<title>By: Ot</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180818</link>
		<dc:creator>Ot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 08:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180818</guid>
		<description>Sandeep, for HTML reasons, my comment is not appearing as it should. Please ignore the previous one and approve this instead:

Hello there again Amit,

As I am getting familiar with this issue, I am uncovering facts I have not known earlier. 

Question for you: Does freedom of  expression itself need to be defended with falsehoods, and with suppression of information that is vital to making reasonable judgements about the issue? For that is what you and some journalists in the media seem to be doing!

You claimed in your blog:

**
An internal evaluation of students is on at the Fine Arts Faculty in Baroda
**

But Ashok Malik writes in The Pioneer:

**
Contrary to an erroneous impression being created, the paintings were not on display at a private gathering but, rather, at an exposition open to walk-in visitors.
**

You said in your blog:

**
A BJP leader named Neeraj Jain storms in with a bunch of gundas. He has a problem with some paintings by a student named Chandramohan that use religious imagery.
**

You avoided  mentioning what kind of &quot;religiou imagery&quot; this was. Was it unitentional? Or were you in blissful ignorance yourself, fired as you were, no doubt, by the opportunity to fight fascism? Malik explians:

**
A large cross depicting Christ with his penis hanging out, semen dripping from it into a commode.

A nude woman with a baby attempting to push its way out of her vagina. The caption below the painting reads: &quot;Durga Mata&quot;.
**

And you claimed:

**
&quot;Jain and his gundas beat up Chandramohan, and abuse faculty members and students.&quot;
**

Whereas Malik says:

**
&quot;A group of irate Hindus, led by Niraj Jain, a BJP activist, also marched into the exhibition venue. Jain, who had complained to the police about the apparently blasphemous nature of the &quot;art&quot;, demanded the paintings be removed.

Chandra Mohan and the Dean of the Faculty of Fine Arts, SK Pannikar, refused. Pannikar turned down a request from the university&#039;s vice-chancellor as well and was quoted as telling mediapersons that the Faculty of Fine Arts was like his &quot;personal bedroom&quot; and he was free to do and display what he wanted.

After persuasion from the police, the paintings and other works of &quot;art&quot; were taken down and locked up in a room. Despite the anger of Jain and his compatriots, there was no major violence, no damage to university property and Chandra Mohan&#039;s creations were left untouched. They are still safe in that room.
**

From Malik&#039;s narration of events, the following sequence emerges:

1. The paintings were grotesque and offensive.

2. Neeraj Jain first complained to the police about them.

3. The vice-chancellor asked the dean to remove the offensive paintings. The dean  disobeyed the orders of his boss.

4. Then Jain organized his own protest.  While this protest was not very quiet and peaceful, it was not what it was claimed to be in the media either. I suspect there must have been some heated exchanges at the protest, some pushing and jostling perhaps, and probably the threat of breaking out of violence must have hung about in the air. At any rate, there was no violence, and it is not certain whether the so-called artist was beaten up at all. The police arrive, persuade the exhibitors to remove the offensive paitings, and defuse the situation.

I return to my question to you: does freedom of expression need to be defended with falsehoods? Does fascism need to be fought with suppression and censorship of crucial information? I hope your answers are in the negative, and I also hope that in your hunt-a-fascist zeal, you were misled by your colleagues in the leftwing media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandeep, for HTML reasons, my comment is not appearing as it should. Please ignore the previous one and approve this instead:</p>
<p>Hello there again Amit,</p>
<p>As I am getting familiar with this issue, I am uncovering facts I have not known earlier. </p>
<p>Question for you: Does freedom of  expression itself need to be defended with falsehoods, and with suppression of information that is vital to making reasonable judgements about the issue? For that is what you and some journalists in the media seem to be doing!</p>
<p>You claimed in your blog:</p>
<p>**<br />
An internal evaluation of students is on at the Fine Arts Faculty in Baroda<br />
**</p>
<p>But Ashok Malik writes in The Pioneer:</p>
<p>**<br />
Contrary to an erroneous impression being created, the paintings were not on display at a private gathering but, rather, at an exposition open to walk-in visitors.<br />
**</p>
<p>You said in your blog:</p>
<p>**<br />
A BJP leader named Neeraj Jain storms in with a bunch of gundas. He has a problem with some paintings by a student named Chandramohan that use religious imagery.<br />
**</p>
<p>You avoided  mentioning what kind of &#8220;religiou imagery&#8221; this was. Was it unitentional? Or were you in blissful ignorance yourself, fired as you were, no doubt, by the opportunity to fight fascism? Malik explians:</p>
<p>**<br />
A large cross depicting Christ with his penis hanging out, semen dripping from it into a commode.</p>
<p>A nude woman with a baby attempting to push its way out of her vagina. The caption below the painting reads: &#8220;Durga Mata&#8221;.<br />
**</p>
<p>And you claimed:</p>
<p>**<br />
&#8220;Jain and his gundas beat up Chandramohan, and abuse faculty members and students.&#8221;<br />
**</p>
<p>Whereas Malik says:</p>
<p>**<br />
&#8220;A group of irate Hindus, led by Niraj Jain, a BJP activist, also marched into the exhibition venue. Jain, who had complained to the police about the apparently blasphemous nature of the &#8220;art&#8221;, demanded the paintings be removed.</p>
<p>Chandra Mohan and the Dean of the Faculty of Fine Arts, SK Pannikar, refused. Pannikar turned down a request from the university&#8217;s vice-chancellor as well and was quoted as telling mediapersons that the Faculty of Fine Arts was like his &#8220;personal bedroom&#8221; and he was free to do and display what he wanted.</p>
<p>After persuasion from the police, the paintings and other works of &#8220;art&#8221; were taken down and locked up in a room. Despite the anger of Jain and his compatriots, there was no major violence, no damage to university property and Chandra Mohan&#8217;s creations were left untouched. They are still safe in that room.<br />
**</p>
<p>From Malik&#8217;s narration of events, the following sequence emerges:</p>
<p>1. The paintings were grotesque and offensive.</p>
<p>2. Neeraj Jain first complained to the police about them.</p>
<p>3. The vice-chancellor asked the dean to remove the offensive paintings. The dean  disobeyed the orders of his boss.</p>
<p>4. Then Jain organized his own protest.  While this protest was not very quiet and peaceful, it was not what it was claimed to be in the media either. I suspect there must have been some heated exchanges at the protest, some pushing and jostling perhaps, and probably the threat of breaking out of violence must have hung about in the air. At any rate, there was no violence, and it is not certain whether the so-called artist was beaten up at all. The police arrive, persuade the exhibitors to remove the offensive paitings, and defuse the situation.</p>
<p>I return to my question to you: does freedom of expression need to be defended with falsehoods? Does fascism need to be fought with suppression and censorship of crucial information? I hope your answers are in the negative, and I also hope that in your hunt-a-fascist zeal, you were misled by your colleagues in the leftwing media.</p>
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		<title>By: Ot</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180817</link>
		<dc:creator>Ot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 08:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180817</guid>
		<description>Hello there again Amit,

As I am getting familiar with this issue, I am uncovering facts I have not known earlier. 

Question for you: Does freedom of  expression itself need to be defended with falsehoods, and with suppression of information that is vital to making reasonable judgements about the issue? For that is what you and some journalists in the media seem to be doing!

You claimed in your blog:

&gt;&gt;
An internal evaluation of students is on at the Fine Arts Faculty in Baroda
&gt;
Contrary to an erroneous impression being created, the paintings were not on display at a private gathering but, rather, at an exposition open to walk-in visitors.
&gt;
A BJP leader named Neeraj Jain storms in with a bunch of gundas. He has a problem with some paintings by a student named Chandramohan that use religious imagery.
&gt;
A large cross depicting Christ with his penis hanging out, semen dripping from it into a commode.

A nude woman with a baby attempting to push its way out of her vagina. The caption below the painting reads: &quot;Durga Mata&quot;.
&gt;
&quot;Jain and his gundas beat up Chandramohan, and abuse faculty members and students.&quot;
&gt;
&quot;A group of irate Hindus, led by Niraj Jain, a BJP activist, also marched into the exhibition venue. Jain, who had complained to the police about the apparently blasphemous nature of the &quot;art&quot;, demanded the paintings be removed.

Chandra Mohan and the Dean of the Faculty of Fine Arts, SK Pannikar, refused. Pannikar turned down a request from the university&#039;s vice-chancellor as well and was quoted as telling mediapersons that the Faculty of Fine Arts was like his &quot;personal bedroom&quot; and he was free to do and display what he wanted.

After persuasion from the police, the paintings and other works of &quot;art&quot; were taken down and locked up in a room. Despite the anger of Jain and his compatriots, there was no major violence, no damage to university property and Chandra Mohan&#039;s creations were left untouched. They are still safe in that room.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello there again Amit,</p>
<p>As I am getting familiar with this issue, I am uncovering facts I have not known earlier. </p>
<p>Question for you: Does freedom of  expression itself need to be defended with falsehoods, and with suppression of information that is vital to making reasonable judgements about the issue? For that is what you and some journalists in the media seem to be doing!</p>
<p>You claimed in your blog:</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;<br />
An internal evaluation of students is on at the Fine Arts Faculty in Baroda<br />
&gt;<br />
Contrary to an erroneous impression being created, the paintings were not on display at a private gathering but, rather, at an exposition open to walk-in visitors.<br />
&gt;<br />
A BJP leader named Neeraj Jain storms in with a bunch of gundas. He has a problem with some paintings by a student named Chandramohan that use religious imagery.<br />
&gt;<br />
A large cross depicting Christ with his penis hanging out, semen dripping from it into a commode.</p>
<p>A nude woman with a baby attempting to push its way out of her vagina. The caption below the painting reads: &#8220;Durga Mata&#8221;.<br />
&gt;<br />
&#8220;Jain and his gundas beat up Chandramohan, and abuse faculty members and students.&#8221;<br />
&gt;<br />
&#8220;A group of irate Hindus, led by Niraj Jain, a BJP activist, also marched into the exhibition venue. Jain, who had complained to the police about the apparently blasphemous nature of the &#8220;art&#8221;, demanded the paintings be removed.</p>
<p>Chandra Mohan and the Dean of the Faculty of Fine Arts, SK Pannikar, refused. Pannikar turned down a request from the university&#8217;s vice-chancellor as well and was quoted as telling mediapersons that the Faculty of Fine Arts was like his &#8220;personal bedroom&#8221; and he was free to do and display what he wanted.</p>
<p>After persuasion from the police, the paintings and other works of &#8220;art&#8221; were taken down and locked up in a room. Despite the anger of Jain and his compatriots, there was no major violence, no damage to university property and Chandra Mohan&#8217;s creations were left untouched. They are still safe in that room.</p>
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		<title>By: Sri</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180814</link>
		<dc:creator>Sri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 07:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180814</guid>
		<description>Hey guys,take a look at Vir Sanghvi taking on the pseudo-liberals..it&#039;s for real!
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=ebce8724-1e20-44f8-9e29-9a0f03fa3881&amp;MatchID1=4464&amp;TeamID1=10&amp;TeamID2=6&amp;MatchType1=1&amp;SeriesID1=1109&amp;MatchID2=4466&amp;TeamID3=2&amp;TeamID4=4&amp;MatchType2=1&amp;SeriesID2=1110&amp;PrimaryID=4464&amp;Headline=Art%2c+tolerance+and+religion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys,take a look at Vir Sanghvi taking on the pseudo-liberals..it&#8217;s for real!<br />
<a href="http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=ebce8724-1e20-44f8-9e29-9a0f03fa3881&amp;MatchID1=4464&amp;TeamID1=10&amp;TeamID2=6&amp;MatchType1=1&amp;SeriesID1=1109&amp;MatchID2=4466&amp;TeamID3=2&amp;TeamID4=4&amp;MatchType2=1&amp;SeriesID2=1110&amp;PrimaryID=4464&amp;Headline=Art%2c+tolerance+and+religion" rel="nofollow">http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=ebce8724-1e20-44f8-9e29-9a0f03fa3881&amp;MatchID1=4464&amp;TeamID1=10&amp;TeamID2=6&amp;MatchType1=1&amp;SeriesID1=1109&amp;MatchID2=4466&amp;TeamID3=2&amp;TeamID4=4&amp;MatchType2=1&amp;SeriesID2=1110&amp;PrimaryID=4464&amp;Headline=Art%2c+tolerance+and+religion</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ot</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180810</link>
		<dc:creator>Ot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 06:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180810</guid>
		<description>Hi Amit,

Interesting discussion here. Been travelling and missed a lot of fun!

You said:

&quot;you may wish to note that I also spoke out in favour of the Danish cartoonists&quot;

Excellent! I applaud your spirited defence of freedom of expression!

You also said:

&quot;If I had the resources to organise protests, I would do so for each of these events.&quot;

Here is where you err! You do have the resources to organize protests. You have your blog. A blog is a powerful medium, especially a blog like yours, which seems to be attracting  quite a bit of attention. Indeed, the internet, being a relatively democratic medium, allows all of us to organize protests.

May I suggest that you host the Danish cartoons prominently on your blog in protest against the censorship and the thuggery imposed on them? I&#039;d really love to see them on your blog, and, if comments are enabled, would like to leave a comment too, in appreciation of your defence of freedom of expression. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Amit,</p>
<p>Interesting discussion here. Been travelling and missed a lot of fun!</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<p>&#8220;you may wish to note that I also spoke out in favour of the Danish cartoonists&#8221;</p>
<p>Excellent! I applaud your spirited defence of freedom of expression!</p>
<p>You also said:</p>
<p>&#8220;If I had the resources to organise protests, I would do so for each of these events.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is where you err! You do have the resources to organize protests. You have your blog. A blog is a powerful medium, especially a blog like yours, which seems to be attracting  quite a bit of attention. Indeed, the internet, being a relatively democratic medium, allows all of us to organize protests.</p>
<p>May I suggest that you host the Danish cartoons prominently on your blog in protest against the censorship and the thuggery imposed on them? I&#8217;d really love to see them on your blog, and, if comments are enabled, would like to leave a comment too, in appreciation of your defence of freedom of expression. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: kural</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180714</link>
		<dc:creator>kural</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 15:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180714</guid>
		<description>I left this on Prof Abi&#039;s blog &lt;i&gt;Prof Abi it is hard to &quot;tone down rhetoric&quot; before a hypocrite.  Read this post every time to remind yourself how far you are from what you profess.  It would be OK if you were a journalist or some chatterati.  You are a person of learning hence you are obliged to uphold the highest standards of fairness.  This post on this thread is about you and your standards of fairness.  As long as you ignore this question I will continue to post on this thread.  This is your blog.  You can hit the delete button as many times as you want to.  But there is no delete button to quell your own self.&lt;/i&gt;  Let&#039;s see what the good professor does about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I left this on Prof Abi&#8217;s blog <i>Prof Abi it is hard to &#8220;tone down rhetoric&#8221; before a hypocrite.  Read this post every time to remind yourself how far you are from what you profess.  It would be OK if you were a journalist or some chatterati.  You are a person of learning hence you are obliged to uphold the highest standards of fairness.  This post on this thread is about you and your standards of fairness.  As long as you ignore this question I will continue to post on this thread.  This is your blog.  You can hit the delete button as many times as you want to.  But there is no delete button to quell your own self.</i>  Let&#8217;s see what the good professor does about it.</p>
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		<title>By: kuraL</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180672</link>
		<dc:creator>kuraL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 23:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180672</guid>
		<description>Sandeep,

Left a post here about our professor at IISc who is getting hot all under and deleting comments.  Looks like this &#039;liberalism&#039; is a cheap wannabe variant of Voltaire&#039;s - simply skin-deep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandeep,</p>
<p>Left a post here about our professor at IISc who is getting hot all under and deleting comments.  Looks like this &#8216;liberalism&#8217; is a cheap wannabe variant of Voltaire&#8217;s &#8211; simply skin-deep.</p>
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		<title>By: kural</title>
		<link>http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/comment-page-2/#comment-180658</link>
		<dc:creator>kural</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 14:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/05/15/short-of-hindu-fascism/#comment-180658</guid>
		<description>Sandeep,

The professor of IISc - Prof. Abi - is showing us that while his bleatings about &#039;freedom of speech&#039; etc., are in the Mega and Giga range, his willingness to be examined or accept criticism is in the Nano and Pico range.  The guy does best what commies are best at (well, he is no commie, but unfortunately under their spell) - deleting comments that embarrass.

http://nanopolitan.blogspot.com/2007/05/outrage-at-ms-university-baroda.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandeep,</p>
<p>The professor of IISc &#8211; Prof. Abi &#8211; is showing us that while his bleatings about &#8216;freedom of speech&#8217; etc., are in the Mega and Giga range, his willingness to be examined or accept criticism is in the Nano and Pico range.  The guy does best what commies are best at (well, he is no commie, but unfortunately under their spell) &#8211; deleting comments that embarrass.</p>
<p><a href="http://nanopolitan.blogspot.com/2007/05/outrage-at-ms-university-baroda.html" rel="nofollow">http://nanopolitan.blogspot.com/2007/05/outrage-at-ms-university-baroda.html</a></p>
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