Says John Howard, the Australian Prime Minister,
Australian Prime Minister John Howard has ruled out apologising to Mohamed Haneef, jailed for almost four weeks as part of a bungled terror probe, and rejected the view that the Indian doctor was victimised.
Howard said mistakes happened from time to time and when dealing with terrorism, it was better to be safe than sorry.
Howard said mistakes happened from time to time and when dealing with terrorism, it was better to be safe than sorry.
“Australia will not be apologising to Dr Haneef,” Howard told reporters in Sydney.
Try to recall the last time somebody did such plainspeaking.
Back home, if sufficient people put the sufficient amount of pressure for sufficiently enough time, the Indian non-Prime Minister might well agree to grant clemency for Afzal. We have a new President in place.
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Tags: Commentary, Indian Politics, International Politics, Pseudo Secularism Hall of Shame, Society & Culture, Terrorism & Pakistan, Weblogs
On 07.30.07 Alka says:
Oh! How can we call that person the PM? When he was asked to bend, he crawls?
On 07.30.07 Palahalli says:
Sandeep,
Are we discussing the number of people we have in jail..for a long time..without even being charged? These do not include just terror suspects.
Who has seen any Indian Prime Minister apologize for such detentions? I find them VERY “gutsy” indeed.
Is it fair to club Haneef’s case with Afzal’s? Post what we know now?
I do not understand the point here. Are we discussing Howard’s savvy or are we discussing something else?
Regards,
On 07.30.07 Shailendra Mathur says:
Ah, but we must allow for mistakes to be made in a state of somnambulism. The poor bugger spends so many sleepless nights, worrying about assorted Jehadis all over the world that his day to day functioning must have been hampered
On 07.30.07 Anonymous says:
Heard a good quote - “There may be some peaceful Muslims, but there’s no peaceful Islam”
And the peaceful muslims that we know of , exist not *because* of Islam but *inspite* of that.
If given half a chance, these peace lovers would willfully throw their hats in the ring for the great crusade (against infidels), as seen in most Muslim majority states.
On 07.31.07 socal says:
Christopher Hitchens has a great piece on slate:
“Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?”
http://www.slate.com/id/2171371/fr/flyout
A must read.
On 07.31.07 shadows says:
>>> I do not understand the point here. Are we discussing Howard’s savvy or are we discussing something else?
====================
Sandeep ,
From now on, please be a lot more elaborate and use double the number of lines for the same post.. Palahalli should understand, right ?
BTW, you have an entertainer on this blog too
On 07.31.07 shadows says:
>>> “Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?”
We are not scared of offending muslims.. but we are scared of palahalli..
bhaaagoo…. palahalli aya.. (I think even troll is too soft a word for him)
On 07.31.07 Ot says:
Comrade Halli brings in his usual perverse commie “perspective”:
“Who has seen any Indian Prime Minister apologize for such detentions?”
While on the subject, which Indian prime-minister apologized for his failure to restore Kashmiri Pandits to their rightful land, property and dignity? Which Prime Minister even sounded vaguely apologetic while spouting homilies about peace in Kashmir, dialog with Pakis etc but totally foregetting to say even a word about Kashmir’s most brutalized and neglected victims: the Pandits?
To understand the nature of Communism, you need to look closely at the priorities of the likes of Comrade Halli. Communism believes in killing as a matter of routine. Giants such as Stalin and Lenin have given us wonderful quips such as “stick the badge of a convict on a person and then hang him”, “the murder of one man is assassination but the killing of thousands is a statistic” etc, etc. In the warped, violence-obsessed worldview of Communism, those deserving of sympathy are NOT the innocent victims of mindless hate and violence, but those perpetrating or suspected of perpetrating violence. THAT precisely is the worldview that Comrade Halli, trained as he is by his “father”, repeatedly exhibits in these forums.
On 07.31.07 Palahalli says:
Ot:
Do you believe “innocent until proven guilty” is a good and decent standard to go by?
Are you also aware, that there are innumerable “Hindus” in the same bracket, detained only because they lack the resources to fight their cases or the pull to influence a police SI?
It would appear you will “buy” anything that the State sells you. This thinking is actually no different from the people’s who catapulted Communists to power.
All power to the Proletariat “representated” by the Party that “represented” the State…that “became” God to its people….who then laid low.
Anything from the State as long as it appears that it bashes Muslims. This, apart from being sick, is suicidal.
Unless you want to forget what Pastor Neimuller said, you might want to rethink your position.
Coming to Kashmiri Pandits, please also consider the fact that folks who are bashing Muslims, also are not doing anything for the welfare of Pandits. Our Pandits themselves will tell you this.
And “Shadows”…you have become a shadow of your former self. That’s sad. You can do much better.
On 07.31.07 Ot says:
Comrade Halli persists in clever commie strategems of evasion, diversion and blame-shifting:
“Coming to Kashmiri Pandits, please also consider the fact that folks who are bashing Muslims, also are not doing anything for the welfare of Pandits.”
I don’t know how it is possible to bash “Muslims” when it is ridiculous to think of “Muslims” as a single entity (except perhaps in the fantasies of Comrade Halli and his “father”) but the larger point is, what are Hindu-baiters (hint: commies) doing to end the victimization of Pandits? These rogues are siding mostly with those very forces which have marginalized Kashmiri Hindus. Talk to any of them and they will lose no time in blaming the victim. They will shamelessly tell you atrocious lies like that old chestnut: that the Pandits fled of their own volition at Jagmohan’s insistence. That is how low the commies will sink. In order to suck up to their allies the Islamic fundamentalists, they will tell you that the Pandits just wanted to live in shantytowns so that “Muslims” of the valley can be harassed.
At least I know of no “Muslims”-bashers who are flinging such obscenities at the Pandits. This art of vicious anti-Pandit propaganda is solely the preserve of commies. Comrade Halli should ask his “father”. He will definitely get to listen to more such commie yarn denigrating Kashmiri Hindus.
“It would appear you will “buy” anything that the State sells you.”
Yes, the State is trying to sell the bakwaas theory that it is not possible to restore Kashmiri Pandits’ homeland to them. Comrade Halli seems to have swallowed this state-sponsored cock-and-bull story hook, line and sinker.
The State is also selling the nonsense that it is more important to suck up to Pakistan and its lackeys like Hurriyat than to do what is the state’s *humanitarian* duty: get the Pandits out of their misery. Comrade Halli is not only buying this, but in an act that should warm the state’s cockles, he will sell this to you along with the Brooklyn bridge.
It is noteworthy how deftly commies become the conduits to push these state-sponsored excuses. Our slippery comrade proves no exception.
On 07.31.07 Palahalli says:
Ot: “Coming to Kashmiri Pandits, please also consider the fact that folks who are bashing Muslims, also are not doing anything for the welfare of Pandits. Our Pandits themselves will tell you this.”
- This was my contribution to a beginning of a possible “Pandit” debate…and you have woven an epic around it already. Well done. Can you do more without me contributing at all? I am certain you can. When Lord Haw Haw could over the Nazi radio…why not you…an able student?
On 07.31.07 Ot says:
Halli: “- This was my contribution to a beginning of a possible “Pandit” debate…”
How rich. Definitely more spectacular than the Al Qaeda offering to have a debate on 9/11 victims.
“and you have woven an epic around it already. ”
Epic? Can the good comrade be serious? Is he unaware that commies blame the Pandits — and even project them as aggressors — for their own plight? If he is genuinely unaware of this fact, then his “father” needs to be worried, and send him to a (re)indoctrination camp.
On 07.31.07 Palahalli says:
Ot: I take you seriously…actually, very seriously
But…let people know when you seek an opinion next time round. My thinking on the Kashmir issue may actually surprise you
So…chill
On 08.01.07 shadows says:
>>> And “Shadows”…you have become a shadow of your former self. That’s sad.
Do you think you are smart or funny… well, you fail miserably.
>>You can do much better.
Not much time to waste on clowns like you.. You are just a means of entertainment (like someone else told you earlier on this blog, but you did not realize) You are a fool if you think you can convert people here to your viewpoints, by playing around with words, writing long comments, dishonest assumptions, or deliberately misquoting and misunderstanding other comments..
Keep going, we need some more fun here
On 08.01.07 shadows says:
Palahalli,
What.. how can anyone give them their land back ? Do you think before you type in stuff ??
>>Do you believe “innocent until proven guilty” is a good and decent standard to go by?
Hahaha.. sentimental fool.. what about “muslims are innocent even though proven guilty” ?
>>> This thinking is actually no different from the people’s who catapulted Communists to power.
What an oxymoron ..
On 08.01.07 Palahalli says:
Shadows:
Well…it did not take much time did it? Now you’re reduced to hurling insults….
What happens when folks get angry and thrash about in a rage…is simple. They make mistakes. Embarrassing mistakes.
But first, I am not at all interested in “converting” anyone. But it is reasonable to expect good arguments. Well substantiated and argued. Not slander…abuse..insults…plain lies..broad brushing…etc.
Now, Mistake 1.
“What.. how can anyone give them their land back? Do you think before you type in stuff ??”
- The two times “land” was mentioned in the context of Pandits, it was by Ot.
This is what he said on both occasions -
# 8 - “While on the subject, which Indian prime-minister apologized for his failure to restore Kashmiri Pandits to their rightful land, property and dignity?”
# 10 - “Yes, the State is trying to sell the bakwaas theory that it is not possible to restore Kashmiri Pandits’ homeland to them.”
Well, Ot was responding to a straw man, because I had not brought up the “Pandit” question yet. I, however, responded on..
# 9 - “Coming to Kashmiri Pandits, please also consider the fact that folks who are bashing Muslims, also are not doing anything for the welfare of Pandits. Our Pandits themselves will tell you this.”
No mention of any “land” there.
Mistake 2.
“Hahaha.. sentimental fool.. what about “muslims are innocent even though proven guilty” ?
- I was responding to Ot’s -
“In the warped, violence-obsessed worldview of Communism, those deserving of sympathy are NOT the innocent victims of mindless hate and violence, but those perpetrating or suspected of perpetrating violence. THAT precisely is the worldview that Comrade Halli, trained as he is by his “father”, repeatedly exhibits in these forums.”
And I said…
“Do you believe “innocent until proven guilty” is a good and decent standard to go by?
Are you also aware, that there are innumerable “Hindus” in the same bracket, detained only because they lack the resources to fight their cases or the pull to influence a police SI?”
The key and dangerous proposition in Ot’s post I was referring to was, “or suspected of perpetrating violence.” This meant Ot had buried any sense of “innocent until proven guilty”.
Well, we really have no need for a degree in Law in order to fathom the basic disregard to human rights here. In his silly rage…Ot even failed to realize that I had “Hindus” as victims, on my mind. And now, “Shadows” comes along and polishes this obscenity afresh!
But then….”This thinking is actually no different from the people’s who catapulted Communists to power.
What an oxymoron .. ”
- All of such imbecilities crop up due to basic misconceptions about my stance. You find it difficult to fit me in any groove. So, the next “best” option in order to slot my decidedly inconvenient views is to give me an ugly label.
Some of my friends here are good students of Joseph Goebbels.
Bottomline - Write trash…i’ll make certain you know about it. Good arguments, you have my respect.
On 08.01.07 shadows says:
>>> Good arguments, you have my respect.
Thanks, but we dont need it
Brevity is an art.
On 08.02.07 B Shantanu says:
All,
This post will interest several of you and in the comments section, you can see the contrast between our response to the Indian suspects held after the Madrid blasts and Dr Haneef.
http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/08/01/one-mans-folly-another-victory/
On 08.14.07 Palahalli says:
Sandeep,
I request you to post details on Deputy Chief Minister Yediyurappa’s statement on Haneef and also if he, the DCM, did in fact visit Col. Vasant’s widow in Bangalore?
I look forward to a response from members too.
Regards,
On 08.15.07 Aram says:
Re: Haneef
Here is an interesting observation by Edward Luce, Washington Bureau Chief, Financial Times and author of ‘In spite of the Gods.’
“But in the grander scheme of things, Haneef’s extended detention hardly merited the sense of injured nationalism I observed. One English-channel programme devoted an entire half-hour segment to the injustice of Haneef’s situation without once referencing the hundreds of Indians, including Indian Muslims, languishing in Indian jails, many on the flimsiest of pretexts, not all of them in Gujarat and Kashmir.
“Nor in all of the (largely justified) criticisms aired about the excesses of Australian and British terrorist detention laws was there a serious effort to compare them with India’s own panoply of antiterrorist and public order statutes, which are among the most sweeping in the democratic world.
“…. But India maintains scattered Guantanamos. And unlike in the US, where the media is scrambling to atone for the dismal cheerleading it offered Bush in the build-up to the invasion of Iraq, India’s most influential news outlets rarely conduct sustained investigative reporting into human rights abuses at home.
“What has any of this got to do with India’s 60th anniversary? One relatively commonplace observation….. Little else could explain the media’s disproportionate focus on Haneef and New Delhi’s own high-octane protestations. You would have thought Canberra had sent a gunboat into the Bay of Bengal.”
…( Outlook magazine, 20 August 2007 or visit http://www.outlookindia.com)
On 08.15.07 Palahalli says:
Aram…us Indians are hardly known for subtlety. We do everything “BOLLYWOOD” style
Lots of drama and over acting…lots of tears…
Like at the end of the movie…all emotions are drowned and most realize..it was only play acting.
But I do hope someone responds to me query about Yeddi’s statement and the martyred Colonel.
On 08.15.07 Aram says:
@palahalli:
Hi PAL:
thanks for commenting on my comment. No I did not come across Cheddi Yeddi’s anything anywhere, nor about the martyr maybe because I am only a cursory reader of newspaper headlines.
I did see a photo of beloved CM Kumaranna posing with his beloved Haneefbhai.
Now, as Edward Luce asks: why is Kumaranna so PALLY with Haneef when there are hundreds of our undertrial bhaiyaan in our cells?
Have all our journos been bought lock, stock and barrel by our politicos?
On 08.15.07 Palahalli says:
Aram….
Any talk of undertrials and police brutality is taken to mean…”sleeping with the bloody liberals” or worse…P-Secs. Rest assured the liberals talk a lot about the subject. Indian ones also mess it up by focussing excessively on the “minority” aspect and forget that loads of “Hindu” low castes suffer a worse fate. On the flip-flop side….our conservatives don’t talk about this at all!
Coming back to Shri. Yeddi. The link - http://www.hindu.com/2007/07/29/stories/2007072953020400.htm
“Deputy Chief Minister B.S. Yediyurappa said he too was pained by the harassment of Dr. Haneef by the Australian Federal Police.”
But nothing about our “Nationalists” in power visiting Col. Vasant’s family. If I remember right..the residence is less than 7 KM from Vidhana Soudha.
Comments??
On 08.16.07 Aram says:
I thought the reasons were obvious.
Visiting or even talking about Haneef will ensure the minority votes which will be a major factor for winning in the elections.
Visiting Col. Vasant’s family is a pure waste of time with no possibility of electoral gains.
Besides, the honorable CM or even Yeddi are concerned only with Karnataka and do not bother about the bigger picture of India as a whole.
On 08.16.07 Palahalli says:
Aram….is the feeling still abroad that our minorities vote en masse..basing themselves on such issues?
I ask this because not even a Bukhari can today, pull off a “Vote” Bank magic trick.
Are you saying…Muslims will now assuredly look to the JD and BJP??
But I was also on the BJP’s so called “Hindu Nationalist” mode. What is happening to that?
Aram/Mathurji - I have posted a response to Mathurji’s plan on “Aavarana”. I would be please if you could make comment.
On 08.16.07 shadows says:
Aram,
Friend, please avoid feeding the troll .. or this thread too will end up like this..
http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/06/14/book-review-aavarana/
The troll is illogical, self-contradictory, intellectually dishonest, etc and has a lot of free time for bakarchod (typical of commies). No point talking to him.
On 08.16.07 Palahalli says:
“The troll is illogical, self-contradictory, intellectually dishonest, etc”
- Oops Aram…I forgot to tell you. You must most certainly seek permission from the “Bureau of Opinion Mongering & Judgment Dispensing” headed by a Shadowey figure before responding to me.
Else…you might just end up “bakarchoding”..Whatever that means.