A brief roundup of different edits featured today on the latest Tehelka sting reveals several interesting but stale findings about the Indian media.
Swapan Dasgupta nails it down perfectly in this article (reproduced from the Pioneer in full below).
The [Tehelka] reporter Ashis Khetan quite openly admits that he was initially despatched to Gujarat to do “a sting operation on Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s involvement in a spate of fake encounter killings.” When that pre-judged investigation failed, Tehelka fell back on the riots of 2002. It successfully exposed the warped minds of those who participated in the killings. However, there is no question that the sting was driven by the sole aim of securing the downfall of Modi by non-electoral means. Journalism was the means to a political objective.
Despite inconsistencies in some of the videos, and the sting op itself being highly suspicious, nobody in the mainstream media except the Pioneer has the courage, or inclination to think critically. They have been quick to do what they’re adept at doing: demonizing Modi in the name of spurious secularism.
So, while Indian Express sees and listens to ghosts and calls Manmohan Singh an exemplary Prime Minister, Outlook has occupied itself in giving us riveting details of “internal dissensions” in the Gujarat BJP wing.
I’d have appreciated their honesty if they openly proclaimed what they’re actually doing: readying up for the Congress party’s campaign for the upcoming Gujarat elections.
A naked contrast between the Indian Express edit piece, which says: the post-Godhra carnage will not allow us to move on, while the Pioneer counterpart observes that the riots — horrible as they were - are fast becoming history. The people of Gujarat, both Hindus and Muslims, have moved on.
Gujarat has moved on, the media hasn’t. For obvious reasons. Enough of my rants. Read Swapan Dasgupta now.
Gujarat has outgrown riot
Swapan Dasgupta
A decade ago, during President Clinton’s embarrassment over his relationship with Monica Lewinsky, the White House spin doctors excelled themselves. At a time when the world was eagerly awaiting the publication of the Starr inquiry report, the President’s image handlers put out the word that this was a hurdle he would find extremely hard to negotiate. Soon the beltway was agog with speculation of an extremely damaging report and Clinton’s imminent resignation.
The Starr report, when it was released, was certainly an indictment of Clinton’s waywardness. However, it was nowhere as damaging as the political grapevine anticipated. In the backdrop of soaring expectations, the Starr report came to be viewed as a virtual exoneration of the President and provided him a much-needed political respite. Clinton’s handlers successfully created a mismatch between promise and delivery and neutralised the potentially damaging effects of the Starr inquiry.
The editors of Tehelka certainly succeeded in creating a buzz over a sting operation they promised would be “the most important story of our time” — a claim that invoked visions of Bob Woodward emulating what the Google advertisement suggested the Indiana Jones’ of the world do: Retire. It was also known that the story would centre on Gujarat and the one man who has defied the stormtroopers of secular fundamentalism. With Assembly elections a few weeks away, Tehelka’s hype suggested that this was the end of the road for Narendra Modi.
There was never any ambiguity over the central aim of the sting: To secure the downfall of Modi. The covert filming of half-crazed killers and braggarts had one objective: To somehow implicate Modi. The reporter Ashis Khetan quite openly admits that he was initially despatched to Gujarat to do “a sting operation on Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s involvement in a spate of fake encounter killings.” When that pre-judged investigation failed, Tehelka fell back on the riots of 2002. It successfully exposed the warped minds of those who participated in the killings. However, there is no question that the sting was driven by the sole aim of securing the downfall of Modi by non-electoral means. Journalism was the means to a political objective.
Journalists are not historians; they live for the moment. The bloodshed that began with the jihadi arson in Godhra has been in the public domain for five years. The butchery at Naroda Patiya and the Gulbarga Housing Society in Ahmedabad has been dissected and some of the perpetrators identified and charged in the courts. Activists have made films on the 2002 riots and been showered with awards by a grateful Congress establishment. Novels centred on the Gujarat riots have routinely filled the remaindered sections of warehouses and “academic” studies have argued that “Hindu militancy” poses a greater threat than Al Qaeda.
The only problem with this inspired activism was that it left Modi politically unscathed. In the five years since the riots, Modi has established a few things. First, he has conclusively demonstrated that he has the popular mandate. Second, that despite loony voices on both sides of the sectarian divide, he is not going to be bogged down by identity politics. There have been no riots in the past five years and hopefully this track record will persist. The thrust of his administration has been rapid economic growth, administrative efficiency and modernisation. In five years, Modi has not only aroused regional pride, he has made Gujarat the best governed State.
The riots — horrible as they were - are fast becoming history. The people of Gujarat, both Hindus and Muslims, have moved on. No one, and certainly not the Congress, wanted the forthcoming elections to be dominated by sectarian tensions. There are other pressing concerns. By resurrecting the riots, without at the same time being able to nail Modi personally, the sting has raised the communal temperature needlessly and fuelled minority victimhood.
This is not to suggest that Tehelka shouldn’t have exposed the monsters; it should just have avoided the desperate search for a high political dividend.
Postscript: Arun Shourie had warned about two decades ago about the muck that the Indian press had become. It pays to read that warning again.
Tags: Commentary, Indian Politics, Media Watch, Pseudo Secularism Hall of Shame, Society & Culture, War on Communism, Weblogs
On 10.28.07 Prasanna says:
If people have not forgotten Godhra,it’s a good thing.Because that was the first time the muslims paid very dearly for their islamic acts.It should not and must not be allowed to be forgotten.
On 10.28.07 anonymous says:
sadly mr. swapan das gupta is not as visible to the naive indian readers or watchers as sardesais and barkhas and mehtas.
therein lies the right-wing’s (sorry to use that term but it’s convenient) predacament.
fox news - however crass and “over the top” it is - single handedly balances off cnn,nytimes,nbc etc, in the usa
but in india we still have a long way to go.
On 10.28.07 socal says:
We cannot really have a rightist media in India unless those with right views support it. Rajdeep TV and Barkha TV have their own agenda and they are not going to change it. Either Hindus can keep scoffing at them or choose to vote with their legs, and wallet, and support whatever rightist media we have. As of now there are not very many career prospects in siding with, or speaking for, conservative right — no institutional support, no stable career etc. Building institutions takes time and money. Little pooling of resources from those concerned will eventually get us there. But a long term commitment is required. Meanwhile we got to learn to ignore these leftist motormouths.
On 10.29.07 Palahalli says:
What is and what is not in dispute;
1. Not in dispute; The fact that those who got interviewed were boasting about their acts.
2. Not in dispute; The fact that Modi was the target. Lesser fry would in any case draw inspiration from higher authorities.
3. Not in dispute; Babu Bajrangi’s notoreity-This man commanded the support of Gujarat BJP. He is not new fish at all. He is well known also for his infamous abductions of “Hindu” girls who also dared to marry Muslims. Please google for more info.
4. In Dispute; The possibility that the tapes themselves may be doctored. By no means confirmed.
5. In Dispute; The possibility that Modi allowed the killings to continue.*The grayer this area…the longer his lifeline*
What I found interesting was this part-
“In the five years since the riots, Modi has established a few things. First, he has conclusively demonstrated that he has the popular mandate. Second, that despite loony voices on both sides of the sectarian divide, he is not going to be bogged down by identity politics. There have been no riots in the past five years and hopefully this track record will persist. The thrust of his administration has been rapid economic growth, administrative efficiency and modernisation. In five years, Modi has not only aroused regional pride, he has made Gujarat the best governed State.”
Swapan is a man who will not write to please any constituency. I remember the flak he drew when he wrote in praise of Nirad Choudhury and provocatively, about the loss of British Imperial spirit. So, the man is straightforward.
Modi draws support from murderous loonies and folks who want to see true progress. His skill lies in managing these groups without losing his balance. So far so good. Not everybody loves a riot.
In so far as lack of “Right Wing Media” is concerned, this lament will forever continue.
But…the H-Vadis have never had support amongst mediapersons. And yet they won a General Election once. Me thinks…there is now a primary disconnect…that is refusing to close.
Modi himself draws his support from a stance of defiance to “authority”. Central, Judicial…and positively for Gujarati asmita.
How he transforms himself in greater authority…i.e. If Central BJP trusts him enough with it..remains to be seen.
The one thing Modi can do is round up the blackguards on that video and have charges filed. That much, his supporters can also insist on..without losing face.
On 10.29.07 Palahalli says:
I see folks here like The Pioneer. I have been reading this paper for some years now. Chandrabhan Prasad was my draw.
The day the “Right” can reconcile with “C.Prasad”…will be the day they will truly command respect.
On 10.29.07 Ot says:
###
I disagree with Swapan Dasgupta that Tehelka’s target was Modi. Secondary target, maybe, but causing damage to Modi was not the primary objective because the Tehelka/Setlavad gang is well-aware that damaging Modi is not that easy. I disagree also with him that the Congress sees no advantage in raking up 2002 incidents.
The choices before Congress in Gujarat are two: suffer a “diginified” defeat, like in Lok Sabha elections of 2004, or suffer an ignominious loss, like in assembly elections of 2002. Electorally, much has changed in Gujarat since both 2002 and 2004. The BJP has won spectacular victories in local body elections where the campaign was based on issues of development and local governace, and caste and religion played a far less significant role. There was a “realignment of forces” — to use the terminology of pundits — even in Godhra, where the local body was elected with the support of BJP! If this trend continues, Congress is staring it a situation worse than 2002.
In 2002 and 2004, and in various elections since then, Muslim vote was rallied round the Congress or Left, depending on the local political situation, with the help of inflammatory videos that projected Muslim victimhood. The Election Commission should have cracked down on this communal propaganda, but of course, we know why it didn’t or wouldn’t crack down. This video-based propaganda was carried out not only in Gujarat, but in all the states that went to elections since 2002. Godhra is justified as a “spontaneous” reaction to an attempt to molest a Muslim girl, while the subsequent events are shown in gory detail — often embellished by fiction such as Parzania — as activities carried out Modi and his men — subtext, by Hindus.
In Gujarat, this material has become a bit stale. Its effectiveness a third time round is questionable. Fresh new video material with claims to “authencitity” (among Muslim aduiences, that is) is required to convince the faithful to not commit electoral heresy. (They even chose TV Today network, with a “neutral” political stand, and not known Congress stooges like NDTV or IBN). Recall that Teesta Setalvad had to persuade even Zaheera Sheikh to lie in the name of “quam”. The name of the quam needed to be invoked again.
Note that the Tehelka “sting” sticks to the well-established plot. The “sting” carefully avoids the killers who pepetrated a genocide on the train passengers. Far from it, it provides the usual rationalization that the train passengers invited it on themselves. This is followed by fantastic tales from, as Dasgupta rightly calls, “braggarts and half-crazed men”. No mention of the Hindus who fell prey to the violence or police bullets. This script is meant to reinforce the sense of victimhood of Muslims: how they were first blamed for “no fault” of theirs for Godhra (they were only trying to protect a girl) and how, again, for no fault of theirs, they were attacked in the subsequent violence by “Hindu police” and “Hindu government”.
In summary: even when a defeat is looming large for the congress, a secular election campaign based on development issues makes it worse for the party, whereas a communal campaign helps it save face. The Tehelka “sting” is meant as propaganda material to be distributed among “Muslim” voters of Gujarat ahead of the elections to make sure Muslims come out in full strength as always and vote Congress.
On 10.29.07 Qumran says:
>>>>>>>>>>> If people have not forgotten Godhra,it’s a good thing.Because that was the first time the muslims paid very dearly for their islamic acts.It should not and must not be allowed to be forgotten. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Don’t worry. Sikulars will moan about “Gujarat” for years to come. It is quite a needed distraction over tackling the real problem of Islam’s murderous ideology and track record in the subcontinent.
On 10.29.07 Ot says:
Sandeep, its very frustrating that your blog doesn’t let comments from any browser other IE (and that means from any OS other than Windows as well). When I try to post the message again with Micro$oft software, the server complains of a duplicate comment. (And I need to resort to trickery to circumvent that problem). I suspect the comment is reaching the server but is not appearing in the client-side rendering. There’s a bug somewhere. Please get that fixed. If you’re receiving comments as emails, do you see the missing ones?
On 10.29.07 Ot says:
Comrade Halli,
I kinda like you because for me you’re the textbook case of ill-effects of indoctrination.
Chandrabhan Prasad himself said that Pioneer was the only newspaper that gave a platform for regularly airing (through himself) what he called the Dalit viewpoint. Now, I am not sure his views are in alignment with the paper’s; but that makes it all the more noteworthy The Pioneer gives space to him.
The Pioneer also gives space to one Bhambri, who is obviously a communist. It used to publish another commie earlier, whose name I forgot and don’t see his byline these days.
An oped today’s Pioneer is headlined: “It’s Advantage Congress”. Imagine that! Are you willing to wager your life’s savings (include petro-money
on the bet that in the near future we shall see an article that says, “It’s Advantage BJP” in The Hindu?
A respectable newspaper is the one that gives uncoloured news, and provides space for ALL competing opinions, while of course editorially asserting its own stand on issues. The Pioneer does much better on this score than leftwing propaganda machines like The Hindu. When was the last time you saw a leader piece in The Hindu detailing the genocides perpetrated by communism? Or one that lambasted the commies but had words of appreciation for the BJP?
Ergo, I have a new benchmark. To ascertain if something is repspectable or not, I turn to you, asking: “hey Comrade, did your ‘dad’ teach you that such and such a thing is not respectable?” If you say yes, then I know I better sit up and take notice of such and such a thing and start respecting it pronto
On 10.29.07 Palahalli says:
Ot; Welcome back! Sorta missed you round here
All I want to know is if your “half-crazed men and braggarts” are going to be booked. Because…dear Ot..this still doesn’t mean they are lying. Especially brave Bajrangi
The fact that Pioneer was the first to “allow” a Dalit column is a reflection on the paper’s high standards…and not in any way, an assertion of H-Vadi principles. Unless of course…you want to prove to me that the Pioneer’s owners are H-Vadis.
Plenty of the usual strawmen in your hair Ot. I have never made a defence of The Hindu or the likes of them. There are no “Right” wing papers…so I cannot comment.
My intention of pointing out to “Chandrabhan” was obvious. Can “you” appreciate his arguments?
On 10.29.07 Umesh says:
Awesome site!
On 10.29.07 Sandeep says:
Hi OT,
I checked with other systems and browsers with at least 3 people. They don’t face the problem you’ve mentioned. After posting your comment, did you refresh the page once to see if it did appear?
Better still, give me your email id (offline to sanwriterATgmailDOTCOM) and I’ll add you as a trusted commenter. That should get rid of your problem. Better still, you can register and I’ll approve your ID. My comment-moderation thingie must be working overtime.
Just my suggestions, feel free to ignore them if they don’t work for you.
On 10.29.07 Anonymous says:
tarun tejpal’s “sting” is now going to be used in pakistan’s and bangladesh’s madrassas as a school subject on hinduism.
these videos will be used as a course material in the jehadi factories across the globe.
tarun tejpal has just crossed the line into being totally useless or may be a useful idiot for the maulvis
On 10.29.07 Anonymous says:
as i said
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/oct/29pak1.htm
On 10.30.07 Qumran says:
Hey joker Pallu. Can you quit with shrill Nana Patekar philmi dialogue? It does not pay to lecture Dalai Lama about feudal Tibet being saved by egalitarian Communists. Intelligent people know exactly what these murderous ideologies of Christianity, Islam, and Naxalism mean for native cultures.
Modi called in the Army within 24 hours. Many policemen died in the riots doing their duty. People should explore the underlying causes of why there is a religious problem in India, namely the ideology of Islamic supremacy, imported in with the murderous Islamic invasions.
On 10.30.07 Palahalli says:
Qumran; A simple question. Why would you be interested in saving the lives of folks belonging to “murderous” ideologies?
However, let me assume you are inconsistent and do want to save such lives; but your story of “Army within 24 hrs” is false.
I call you a liar to your face and ask you to prove otherwise. I assure you, I will prove that you are a liar if you circumvent or ignore this charge.
We’ll talk about Tibetan tales later…
On 10.30.07 shadows says:
If it had been any other person in place of Modi, even a Kangressi, he would have been unable to control the riots….
Question to ponder - If its the Hindus who killed 750 muslims, who killed the 250 Hindus ??
On 10.30.07 shadows says:
>>>> your story of “Army within 24 hrs” is false.
No, its true.
An article from the Pioneer - http://indiaview.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/the-myth-and-truth-of-godhra/
You can always say its false, motivated whatever, since it appears in the Pioneer, but still…
Army or no army, but I am very sure that Reserve police was called in very quickly. I was in Amdavad that time.
On 10.30.07 Palahalli says:
Nothing before Friday.
On Thursday, Fernandes was still discussing deployment with Modi.
I am not sure how long it takes for the Army to be deployed under these conditions, but “within 24 hours” indicates the possibilities…not the reality.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/mar/01train.htm
Another thing I found interesting in Shadows’ link was the Vanavasi anger against Muslims. Presumably because these Muslims were also fleecing moneylenders and contractors.The precise same reason is used by the Commies in support of the Moplahs in their brutality against “Hindus”.
On 10.30.07 Kumar says:
CCurious Palahalli,
On 27th….
Two companies of the Rapid Action Force and one company of the State Reserve Police were deployed at Godhra
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/feb/27train4.htm
On Feb 28th paramilitary was already deployed and army was on stand by:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/feb/28train18.htm
On 10.30.07 Kumar says:
Sandeep - I can’t see half of what the hell I’m typing..first 2 characters around left side is always chopped.
Palahalli,
GGoing back to army deployment - hypothetical question, though you may know the answer: Nation’s PM assassinated, in Nation’s capital. How much time would you give the govt to deploy army, paramilitary etc… ?
On 10.31.07 Palahalli says:
Kumar - How is that “hypothetical”?
We all know the butchery that followed without let or hindrance. Forget the army…not even the police was in sight!
I would like to boot the fellow who claims otherwise for the Congress!
How many here know that an unwell Vajpayee actually went out on the street and tried to stop rioters? That many Sangh activists sheltered Sikhs?
But I remember my father coming home that day *Banks had shut down*….and clearly telling us, “now the Sardars will have it!…there will be bloodbath!” He was/is by no means a Congress supporter..and inspite of Ot’s protestations :)…he was/is a “Hindu” hardliner.
1984, was a “Hindu” against Sikh massacre. The only difference was..that the Congress and not the VHP, led it.
For confirmation…let’s remember Rajiv Gandhi’s scale of victory and the election campaign his party ran. “Rediffusion”…wasn’t it?
On 10.31.07 Qumran says:
Joker Palahalli - eat this
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020304/main1.htm
Ridiculing the criticism of delay in sending the Army to the state, Mr Advani said after state Chief Minister Narendra Modi sought help of the Centre on February 28, a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on security was called by the Prime Minister to discuss the issue.
On 10.31.07 Palahalli says:
Qumran; Allow me to help you better…
“Ridiculing the criticism of delay in sending the Army to the state, Mr Advani said after state Chief Minister Narendra Modi sought help of the Centre on February 28, a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on security was called by the Prime Minister to discuss the issue. He said while the presence of the Army had enormously helped in restoring order, he could not understand the logic behind the demand for handing over the state to the Army.”
Feb 28th 2002 was Thursday. That day, the issue of Army deployment was discussed. The next day was Friday. That’s when the Army was actually called in and started to deploy. Trouble had started on the 27th with the VHP calling for a bandh. Unless you now want people to believe the govt had no knowledge of what was coming. I know that the VHP is not THAT disorganized. In Gujarat, the VHP and BJP had/have much better co-ordination than in any place else.
In what way does Advani’s statement prove your “within 24 hrs” assertion/lie?
On 10.31.07 Kumar says:
PaPalahalli,
You are splitting hair here on the army deployment with other commentators. I had pointed that on 28th itself paramilitary forces were deployed. Advani was in touch with Goujarat. On 27th Vajapayee had cancelled his Austalia trip.
timelines here: http://www.rediff.com/news/godhra01.htm
BTW, on my hypothetical question - thanks for the answer.
On 10.31.07 Ot says:
>>However, let me assume you are inconsistent and do want to save such lives; but your story of “Army within 24 hrs” is false.
>>I call you a liar to your face and ask you to prove otherwise. I assure you, I will prove that you are a liar if you circumvent or ignore this charge.
Spiteful Comrade,
Let me tell you what a lie is. A squared off fanatic once tried to “prove” that the killings of two Muslims in a taxi triggered the Radhabai Chawl massacre in Bombay in which a Hindu family was burnt to death. For this “proof” he invented a chronological order all his own, in which the killing of the taxi passengers PRECEDES the killing of
Radhabai tenants, whereas in matter of fact it FOLLOWS.
*That* is what is a LIE. Caught Redhanded by another columnist, he left the field bleeding, never mentioning his lying feat again.
Whether army was called in Gujarat “within 24 hours” or not is a matter of technicality, perspective, and interpretation.
For example, what epoch in time is the starting point to count the 24 hours? Is it when the Gohdra genocide was triggered by the butchers who set the train on fire, or is it that point in time when the first incident of major retaliatory violence occured in Ahmedabad? When did the latter happen?
Furthermore, when was army’s assistance actually sought? How long did it take from the moment army was “called in” and it actually staged marches in Gujarat?
But while at it, let us also draw a parallel. Let’s draw the timelines for both 1984 and 2002. After all, your commie-Islamist alliance is in a sort of informal alliance with Congress party, the killers of Sikhs, and Setalavad (yes, the one that justified Godhra genocide) even proudly proclaimed that she wangled funds from the Congress. So you ought to have intimate knowledge of the killing of Sikhs, though I can understand you don’t want to talk about it.
On 10.31.07 Ot says:
###
>>However, let me assume you are inconsistent and do want to save such lives; but your story of “Army within 24 hrs” is false.
>>I call you a liar to your face and ask you to prove otherwise. I assure you, I will prove that you are a liar if you circumvent or ignore this charge.
Spiteful Comrade,
Let me tell you what a lie is. A squared off fanatic once tried to “prove” that the killings of two Muslims in a taxi triggered the Radhabai Chawl massacre in Bombay in which a Hindu family was burnt to death. For this “proof” he invented a chronological order all his own, in which the killing of the taxi passengers PRECEDES the killing of
Radhabai tenants, whereas in matter of fact it FOLLOWS.
*That* is what is a LIE. Caught Redhanded by another columnist, he left the field bleeding, never mentioning his lying feat again.
Whether army was called in Gujarat “within 24 hours” or not is a matter of technicality, perspective, and interpretation.
For example, what epoch in time is the starting point to count the 24 hours? Is it when the Gohdra genocide was triggered by the butchers who set the train on fire, or is it that point in time when the first incident of major retaliatory violence occured in Ahmedabad? When did the latter happen?
Furthermore, when was army’s assistance actually sought? How long did it take from the moment army was “called in” and it actually staged marches in Gujarat?
But while at it, let us also draw a parallel. Let’s draw the timelines for both 1984 and 2002. After all, your commie-Islamist alliance is in a sort of informal alliance with Congress party, the killers of Sikhs, and Setalavad (yes, the one that justified Godhra genocide) even proudly proclaimed that she wangled funds from the Congress. So you ought to have intimate knowledge of the killing of Sikhs, though I can understand you don’t want to talk about it.
On 10.31.07 Ot says:
>>Trouble had started on the 27th with the VHP calling for a bandh
“Trouble” is not calling for a bandh. Many people call bandhs many times. Your pals do it on a routine basis in WB, though they are in power there.
The “trouble” that warrants army’s assistance is large-scale occurence of mob violence that the state administration deems is beyond the ability of the police to deal with. That happened on on 28th.
So what you have claimed is a lie. I call you a liar to your face.
Are you taking inspiration from the squared off fellow I wrote about?
All that you need to do redeem yourself is to produce news reports dated 27th Feb that show that violence has escalated in Gujarat by 27th itself.
On 10.31.07 Mayura says:
Hi Pal,
Come on buddy leave Gujarat riots alone and move on …how long are you going to beat a dead horse..I bet there are more exciting times ahead…
Mayura
On 10.31.07 shadows says:
>>> Presumably because these Muslims were also fleecing moneylenders and contractors.
Palahalli, Dear Comrade, read carefully. The muslims were fleecing the Vanvasis, not moneylenders. Muslims were harassing their womenfolk. Muslims were the exploitative (capitalist?) moneylenders.
By the way, I thought interest is haraam for muslims… Oh, its all right, you can use it to fleece the Kaffirs, but not fellow muslims.
On 10.31.07 shadows says:
>>>>>
But I remember my father coming home that day *Banks had shut down*….and clearly telling us, “now the Sardars will have it!…there will be bloodbath!” He was/is by no means a Congress supporter..and inspite of Ot’s protestations
…he was/is a “Hindu” hardliner.
=============
Palahalli,
Your dad is a bit confused it seems (with all due respect). He is either misinformed, or he is not sure whether he is Hindu or communist. A half-secular maybe. Or he just said it in the heat of the moment. It happens.
Well, dont get charged up, one of my uncles is also the half-secular, pseudo-intellectual elite types who think abusing south-Indians/sindhis/punjabis/sikhs and lower-castes/upper-castes etc is all right, but considers himself a “hardline Hindu”. Once in a while, he even favours muslims. A confused guy really. I pity my cousins.
Most of the times, people dont even know what constitutes a “hardliner”
On 10.31.07 Qumran says:
Can anyone psychoanalyze this pallu guy? Thanks in advance.
On 10.31.07 socal says:
>>>1984, was a “Hindu” against Sikh massacre. The only difference was..that the Congress and not the VHP, led it.
No, it was a Kangressis against Sikh massacre. Delhi had even larger share of RSS sympathisers then than is now- Hindus mostly. When so many Hindus were against it, how can it be termed Hindu vs Sikh? It should be termed Congress-led pogrom, which would be more apt since mostly Congressis were charged for atrocities. During post-Godhra riots even Congress corporators have been alleged to be involved in rioting, showing that the fighting was not politically partisan but rather communal. Looking at casualties on both sides post-Godhra was nothing but communal riots.
In fact Hindus took disproportionate casualties which can only be attributed to terrible murdering capacity on part of Islamists or stern police action. Unfortunately there is no apparent record as to how the Hindus or the Muslims died i.e. whether by bullet injuries or laceration due to sharp objects?
Terming the post-Godhra riots “pogrom” has readily handed
the Islamists with a recruiting tool which in turn resulted in the 7/11 Mumbai blasts. If secularists don’t desist from their vulgar drumrolling we might sadly see many more innocents getting killed, by Islamic terrorists.
On 11.01.07 Palahalli says:
I’ll take this one by one;
Kumar; No question of splitting hairs. The question was of deployment of the Army “within 24 hrs”. I think it is clear that the “Army” gets deployed in cases of civilian emergencies for a certain reason. The fact that Advani was in constant touch with Modi; and Vajpayee cancelled his trip abroad points to the reality that what occured in Godhra was no mere mugging..but one that would point to increasingly serious portends.
****
Ot; First, an accusation of “spite” coming from you is funny. Second, let’s discuss Dilip in a thread dedicated to him. Third, you say that the Army being called in “within 24hrs” is a matter of “technicality, perspective, and interpretation.” Really? I wonder why it then becomes a big deal to quote this incidence at all…like Qumran did. Fourth, your “epochal” starting point is a good idea. Let’s use 1984 and 2002 as examples. I think the Army should have been brought out as pro-active measure as soon as Indira Gandhi was pronounced dead. That is the duty of a watchful govt. Govts cannot afford to mourn and weep. Similarly, the Army should have been called out in Gujarat hours after the Sabarmati coach was burnt. The presence of overwhelming force dissuades killers from organizing and executing. That chance was missed in 1984 and in 2002.
In this country..people have acquired the sense of expecting trouble from certain types of tragedies. But govts have also been notorious for not using their heads and sometimes, as in these cases, of criminally neglecting obvious precautionary measures.
For an early instance of such negligence; please study the partition tragedy.
“Furthermore, when was army’s assistance actually sought? How long did it take from the moment army was “called in” and it actually staged marches in Gujarat?”
- The Army started arriving on Friday. The first Flag Marches occured on the same day. I know that the Army co-ordinates with local authorities…but are they under “local” command? So, when the Army gets in, its effectiveness is self defined.
On the “bandh”..I hope your reasoning is just naivete’. If that is the level of administration you ask from govt., your already living in paradise
Dear Ot, there is such a thing as “intelligence” gathering, preventive arrests, “feel” for the ground situation. You might sell your theory to our Disneyland “Indians” on board…but please spare me. If sincere Modi’s govt did not anticipate the Gujarat VHP’s mood and actions…then his govt failed in preventing the massacres that followed. Muslim…and “Hindu”!
I keep ignoring your post “ends”. Why do you descend into crappy writing at these points? Hardly punchlines..
****
Shadows; Error in reading my post. Perhaps, I should have been clearer. Please re-read that as “Muslims were also “fleecing moneylenders and contractors.”" Or, “were moneylenders and contractors who fleeced”. But, I can see you’ve accepted the Commie logic on Moplah angst.
On analysing my father…I started to think of the Shiv Sena. Do you think they are “confused” too? Remember their boycott of Sikhs and their establishments?
Again…remember Rajiv’s seat share in the post assasination Parliament? Remember the BJP’s? Who were these two parties representing? Who was garnering the “Hindu” vote? Remember those ad’s?
*****
Socal; So, all those who massacred the Sikhs in Delhi were members of the Congress? Not “Hindus”? Were there Sikh Congressmen killing Non-Congress Sikhs? Hmm?
No doubt the RSS view on Sikhs is one of “acceptance”. That does not mean all RSS sympathisers..even lay sympathisers respect such subtleties. I will be surprised if Swayamsevaks took part in that killing. Again…is it so easily forgotten that the RSS actually worked for the Congress in the ensuing polls? You might want to check with your local BJP leader for details. Maybe refer to Balasaheb Deoras’ statements at the time.
And then…maybe the ascendance of Advani and Palampur will start making sense.
On 11.01.07 Kumar says:
Palahalli, I see you keep ignoring to the reference of Rapid action force being deployed on 27th. I think I can see why.
On 11.01.07 socal says:
Hmmm so were there no Christians or Muslims amidst the Congress killers charged? What then was the common aspect between most people charged? That they were Congressis or that they were Hindus. Wonder which part of their Hinduness were the muslim and christian congressi killers were avenging?!
Hint: Jagdish ‘Tytler’ who was brought up by one Rev. Tytler, a missionary, was a prime accused in the ‘84 Sikh massacre.
It shouldn’t be difficult to dig out some muslim names who too were Congress leaders of some sort.
On 11.01.07 rawem says:
socal
It shouldn’t be difficult to dig out some muslim names who too were Congress leaders of some sort.
Google up Ms Tajdar Babbar.
On 11.01.07 Palahalli says:
Kumar; It can boil down to this. Modi underestimated the VHP in Gujarat. Underestimated Togadia and his gang. Even gave them a free hand initially…or was forced to. Later soured relations between them are also pointers.
Socal - Willing to buy your argument that there were non-”Hindu” Congressmen also who led mobs. But I think drawing up a list might damage your argument further.
It is unrealistic to say there was no anti-Sikh upsurge amongst “Hindus” post murder. Poll campaign and results prove this beyond doubt.
On 11.02.07 Ot says:
>> First, an accusation of “spite” coming from you is funny
When you are cornered, all you can do is feel funny. Enjoy, Comrade..
>> Second, let’s discuss Dilip in a thread dedicated to him.
I am not “discussing” D’Souza. I’m teaching *you* the difference between LIE and OPINION. Twist it whichever way he can, with all his commie ingenuity, Comrade D’Souza cannot obfuscate the fact that he let out the lie of the century (and humiliated himself caught letting it out) because he cannot obscure the fact that event #1 happened BEFORE event #2. A claim so blatantly and brazenly contradicting truth, as Comrade D’s is, is a LIE. On the contrary, “army within 24 hours” is a matter of *opinion*, because its depends on such factors as your starting point in time for the 24 hours, and whether army was asked for within 24 hours (government’s action) or whether the army arrived in 24 hours (matter of logistics).
>> Third, you say that the Army being called in “within 24hrs” is a matter of “technicality, perspective, and interpretation.” Really?
Yeah! Really!
>>I think the Army should have been brought out as pro-active measure as soon as Indira Gandhi was pronounced dead. That is the duty of a watchful govt..Similarly, the Army should have been called out in Gujarat hours after the Sabarmati coach was burnt.
I asked you to reproduce news reports showing that major riot incidenrs happened on 27th itself.
That the army should have been called soon after Godhra genocide is _your_ opinion, a cornered commie’s opinion. It is no where written down in the Constitution as to precisely when a government may call in the army. A government does not make its moves on the basis of post-facto judgments (20-20 hindsight eh) of cornered commies. Moreover, there is a school of thought that deprecates the use of army for quelling internal conflicts. Why, of course, your own commie pals are opposed tooth and nail to deploying the army to tackle marxist terrorists, aka Naxals.
Ergo, given the diervgence of *opinion* on when should army be deployed and whether it should be deployed at all, the *opinion* of another person — more importantly of a commie - does not show Qumran to be a “liar”. On the other hand, all of us now understand what a real LIE is, eg: Comrade D’s obscene sleight of hand that switches the order in which two events occured.
But never mind, comrade, because I admit that a cornered commie’s standards are exemplary standards. Except that commies themselves are not following them. Buddhdev Bhattacharya should have called in the army as soon as his police and CPIM goons joined hands together in perpetrating a genocide in Nadigram (a genocide that is raionalized by the CJP gang, by the way). I also contend that by the cornered-commie standards army should have been out as soon as your pals the Islamists perpetrated a genocide on commuter trains in Mumbai. The army should have been called out in Hyderabad as soon as innocent people having a snack in a fast-food joint were buthcered by Islamists. The army should have been called within minutes of terrorists killing Hindus at a temple in Varanasi.
So it seems no government in India is “watchful” by cornererd commie standards. But to its credit, Gujarat government did call the army within 24 hours of retaliatory violence breaking out, whereas some other governments, such as whose crimes are rationalized by “Citizens for Justification of Party committed crimes”, did NOT call the army at all, so that the CPIM goons could continue killing. Thus in comparison Guj had done much better than all other governments.
A while ago, I was reading an interesting exchange triggered by Comrade D’s big lie. It led to the conclusion that the Srikrishna Commission Report is a piece of horse manure. You set out to “prove” that army was not called in 24 hours in Gujarat. It leads to the realization that the Guj government had done much better than other governments in that regard. You should watch your step, Comrade, unless you believe that self-goals are also “funny”.
On 11.02.07 Kumar says:
Ot,
Ot,
Good post. You ought to realize that some people think they could can administer Gujarat better but have no such scantimonious advice for CMs of other state. It’s like Modi got flak from secular crowd for awarding Pathan brothers after T20, no one bothered to check as to how many weeks passed before Karthik was even mentioned in his state.
Palahalli,
Even gave them a free hand initially…or was forced to.
Pure speculation. Check timeline and his background. Sabarmati happened barely couple months after he took over the state and Modi’s past didn’t include any administrative experience. The train passes through half dozen states but is lit in Gujarat. And it happens just 2 months after army’s deployed on border (12/13). Col. Avathale(?)’s written on rediff as to how Sabarmati torching and subsequent events let Pak off the hook; read it.
If Modi’s the kind he’s made out to be how come there were no similar riots after Akashadharm? Or Dangs?
On pinko dcubed: Man, it’s such a shame. Hottest topic that he’s bet his career on and he’s getting less hits and posts on his blogs than all other blogs for this topic. It’s karma I say.
On 11.02.07 shadows says:
>>>> But, I can see you’ve accepted the Commie logic on Moplah angst.
No, I have not commented on it at all…
Please read my comments carefully and see whether I have accepted whatever regarding moplah and commies or not..
Like I said once much earlier, stop coming to stupid conclusions without facts or reason.. You are again blatantly lying, wrongly quoting me and putting words into my mouth.. (I can understand Modi’s plight now, that guy just cant talk to anyone. If he says development, the seculo-progressive terrorists hear godhra)
And yes, that sentence you wrote regarding fleecing moneylenders… it could be interpreted either way. You could have been more precise.
On 11.02.07 socal says:
>>>”Willing to buy your argument that there were non-”Hindu” Congressmen also who led mobs. But I think drawing up a list might damage your argument further.”
~
That’s intriguing indeed. Apparently such listing seems to work in different ways depending upon the circumstances. Thus, after Hyderabad blasts few Muslim names in the victims list is proof enough to take away the Hindu character of victims, but during the anti-Sikh massacre by Congressis it is the Hindu identity that prevails. Some tortured logic there.
Anyway, if we were to draw a list of ‘84 rioters, I wonder which of the following identities will have most matching entries. That the rioters were:
a. Congressis
b. not Congressis but liked Indira Gandhi
c. Hindus
d. Muslims
e. Christians
etc.
Usually such characterization is based on the respective claims of each sides. Claims about what they were fighting for. Thus it would be a mischaracterization if Islamic terrorism were to be dismissed merely as West Asian terrorists, because they are not fighting for West Asia or Central Asia.
>>>”It is unrealistic to say there was no anti-Sikh upsurge amongst “Hindus” post murder. Poll campaign and results prove this beyond doubt.”
There must have been anti-Sikh upsurge amongst all non-Sikh Indians, why single out Hindus only? Indira Gandhi claimed to be a secular politician; why will her assasination affect mostly Hindus with a particularity? Is it being implied that Muslim or Christian affection for Indira was lesser than say a Congressi Hindu’s affection?
Most analysts seem to give equal credit to the ‘84 poll results to sympathy and Rajeev’s promising look towards a “youthful” leadership. Anti-Sikh sentiment rarely figures in it which is understandable because of the sparse presence of Sikhs throughout the country.
On 11.02.07 socal says:
>>>Google up Ms Tajdar Babbar
What about her? Babbar is a Jat surname. Tajdar can be Sikh Jat or Muslim, don’t know which.
On 11.03.07 rawem says:
Socal
AFAIK, Babbar is a Punjabi name but not Tajdar.
“Also in the race are Tajdar Babbar and Arvinder Singh Lovely, who are being considered for representation from the Muslim and Sikh communities.”
This is an excerpt from a Spindian Express article.
http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19981128/33350474.html
On 11.03.07 rawem says:
Kamini Jaiswal (lawyer)
Kamini said one of the survivors told her they were attacked by a group of people led by Congressmen Bhagat and Tajdar Babbar.
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/aug/11spec.htm
On 11.05.07 Palahalli says:
Ot; I apologize for being late in responding…work caught up and admittedly, I also needed some time to think about what you were saying. So, as far as getting “cornered”…we’ll see.
For some reason…and I feel, with “Communist” singlemindedness, you are hell bent upon identifying me with your pet hates. Again with “Communist” singlemindedness, you refuse to base your silly conclusions upon anything more solid than water! Well…that is your problem.
Now, as far as D’Souza is concerned, I am not interested in discussing him or learning about his “lies” from you. Why should I? You refuse to substantiate your own “truths”.
However, if folks are interested in that debate you keep referring to -to…http://www.sandeepweb.com/2004/08/16/indebted-to-dilip-dsouza/
Maybe now, you have something more substantial to comment upon
Coming to the topic on hand, This is what Qumran said -”Modi called in the Army within 24 hours.” That is an ASSERTION. Not an “OPINION”. Unless of course, you want to attach less importance to words being used here.
I ASSERTED he was a liar early. Let me tell you why. Unlike your candid defence of his position, he himself further tried to reinforce his ASSERTION with a further post about Advani ridiculing any contrary opinion other than “within 24 hrs”. It would benefit you to “teach” these folks the fine distinctions between “assertions” and “opinions” and of course…”lies”.
Your usual self-righteousness has allowed you opportunity to miss what I have already said.i.e. “….your “epochal” starting point is a good idea.” Do I have a problem with your self confessed “OPINION”? Nope.
But you do this with magical abandon.
You persist with your illusion that I am a “Disneylander”. I assure you I am not. I was cheer leader for Modi in 2002. I was cheer leader for the VHP and a Swayamsevak in 2002. I have been in and was very much in India..following those events closely. It was what happened in Gujarat 2002 that made me rethink my position.
The VHP was the reason for the BJP’s strength in Gujarat. The VHP and the Gujarat BJP have worked successfully, with much greater co-ordination than in any other state of this country.I will like anyone on this board to contradict this statement. Modi, then, could NEVER have refused the VHP! It is my ASSERTION that Modi rues the day he gave in. But he had no choice THEN. It has been 5 years since and without a riot post any of the other Islamist incidents. The VHP has not been able to start anything.It has taken Modi 5 years to assert himself and build a contrary identity for himself. He has lost the favor of the VHP and is suspect for other reasons, in the eyes of his Delhi bosses. When was the last time a Swayamsevak built his identity upon his State’s asmita? Who in the Gujarat VHP speaks about Gujarati asmita?
The VHP started making threatening statements on the 27th itself.
One thing I will say, folks seem to have internalized the “need” for the Muslims in general to be “taught a lesson”. Post Godhra…post any Islamist atrocity.
The Army should be called in when the State has knowledge about “impending plans”. And when the State knows that it cannot control such a situation by itself.
It is stupid to claim that Modi did not have knowledge of what was being planned. It is stupid to claim..as you have not, that the Congress govt post Indira’s murder did not have knowledge of what was being planned.
Sure the “Army” is representative of substantial force and impartiality. The former is even more important under some circumstances. If police apparatus in the State was just as strong, we would have no requirement for the Army. If the State knows that it will not be faced with dire challenge to law and order, there will be no requirement for the “Army”. There is also a school of opinion that says, in the face of overwhelming force, rioters will not riot. I refer to Julio Rebeiro. Au contraire…you seem to be voicing convenient opinions of Liberals, on the “Army’s” role in internal strife.
On the Naxals and “Marxists”. I am amused. The Naxals would have the heads of these “conventionalists” on a platter at the first opportunity
Confusion confounded! Only an H-Vadi can berate Buddhadev B on Nandigram and by implication, let Mamta off the hook! My god man! Make up your mind! You guys want to fight the Commies or not? The one person who can start helping is Buddhadev! Jyoti Basu refuses to talk to him and so does the BJP and so obviously, does Ot! Only in India! Phew!
What if Reagan/Bush had refused to speak with Gorbachev??!
*****
Kumar:
Pure speculation.- Why?
Sabarmati happened early on in his CMship, good reason for Modi not to refuse the VHP’s bloodlust. What has Modi’s supposed lack of Admin experience got to do with all this? Would you defend Rajiv for his?
I have no issue with the good Col’s opinion. It also makes sense. But why are we defending the folks who made such a need for the Army in Gujarat possible?
Ah…Palahalli! You always blame the victims!
Not really. In my opinion, the locality where these folks came from should have been cordoned off and inflicted collective punishment until they gave up the criminals. Then try the blackguards and hang them publicly. If the VHP takes off…do the same with those “patriots” too!
****
If Modi’s the kind he’s made out to be how come there were no similar riots after Akashadharm? Or Dangs?
- Well, that has been my point for some time now Kumar. Except you seem to think that the VHP was running Daycare centers in 2002!
****
Shadows: I said you have accepted Commie logic on the Moplahs. Their logic was that the Moplahs killed off “Hindu” landlords and such like for purely “class” oppression reasons. What have you supported differently in the Vanavasis vis a vis Muslim contractors and moneylenders?
No..you don’t have to accept anything on the Moplahs or comment on them in order to accept this Commie logic.It is no precondition ;)But if you refuse this bullshit logic..Im your fan!
****
Socal: I don’t think I have denyed the “anti-Hindu” character of any Islamist atrocity/murder. All I have opposed is the blanket view that “Muslims” in general condone such acts. I have said…there are Muslims also getting killed in the same atrocities. At the same time, it can be that Muslim/Christian legislators took part in the anti-Sikh riots..that does not make the violence any less “Hindu”. Did the Rama Janmabhoomi lose it’s “Hindu” character just because there were “Shila” contributions from various political/religious shades including a Jade “Shila” from China!? Admittedly, there are respective negative and positive connotations here.But no reason to refuse the logic.The Congress campaign of 1984 appealed to the “Hindu Nationalist” sentiment/insecurity. Something that unnerved the BJP but thrilled the RSS. These are facts. Probably the reason why the RSS was also targetted by Sikh Terror later on. I remember helping organize an anti-Moga massacre day.
*****
There must have been anti-Sikh upsurge amongst all non-Sikh Indians, why single out Hindus only? - Hmm? The Sikh body guards did not kill a “secular” Prime Minister doing her job. They killed a “Hindu” Prime Minister who they felt, was bent upon humiliating the Sikh Panth.
****
Indira Gandhi claimed to be a secular politician; - How can Vajpayee’s Durga be “secular”? I hope you see my point here.
****
why will her assasination affect mostly Hindus with a particularity? Is it being implied that Muslim or Christian affection for Indira was lesser than say a Congressi Hindu’s affection? - Nope. But the sheer numbers that took part in the killing in Delhi, was “Hindu”. Period. Congressi or otherwise. Why make a convenient distinction?
****
Most analysts seem to give equal credit to the ‘84 poll results to sympathy and Rajeev’s promising look towards a “youthful” leadership. Anti-Sikh sentiment rarely figures in it which is understandable because of the sparse presence of Sikhs throughout the country.- Then the Congress campaign had absolutely no effect on voters(?)Allright…sympathy granted. This in the face of the simply demonic anti-Sikh massacres? Genocide? Granted too.The 400 odd seats the Congressis won…was in no small measure due to 20% minorities…probably including Sikhs!(?)..Must be…cause the “Hindu” hand was clean! They all stayed home.Except of course…the blasted Congressi “Hindu”! Yes! Got it! That’s why the BJP scored all of 2! This logic is surely less cumborsome.
Btw Tajdar Babbar is Muslim.
On 11.05.07 Kumar says:
Pallahalli, this is for you, got this in email on some yahoogroup:
Apologies to Sandeep, I don’t have a URL for this:
————–
October 29, 2007
GUJARAT KA SACH
by
B. P. SINGHAL, IPS. (Retd.), Ex-MP Rajya Sabha.
They-THE SECULARISTS - are at it once again.
“It was a well planned ‘GENOCIDE’”, “it was ‘POGROM’”, “it was state sponsored ‘TERRORISM’”, is what they had said in screaming headlines day after day after day in 2002, in the Delhi based “SECULAR” English dailies and the “SECULAR” electronic media. So complete was the Goebblesian propaganda and so effective was the concealment of truth, that even the Supreme Court lost its judicial balance and without verifying what steps the Government of Gujarat had taken, it went on to write on page 72 of its judgement in the Best Bakery Case that, “The modern day NEROS were looking elsewhere when Best Bakery and innocent children and helpless women were burning ………..”.
It was media power at its worst that caused this unwarranted outburst from the Hon’ble Supreme Court. All the Gujarat language dailies were giving truthful accounts which were at complete variance with the Delhi based Media.
“The Hindu”, the leading-most South India daily reported on 1st March 2002 : “The Chief Minister Modi frantically asked for the Army units to be called in.” On 2nd March 2002 ‘The Hindu’ reported : “Unlike February 28 when one community was entirely at the receiving end, the minority backlash on 1st March has further worsened the situation ………. and the Army staged a flag march in Ahemedabad on 1 st March 2002 at 9.00 A.M.”
It was therefore truly shocking that on 25.8.2007, “Aaj Tak” harped on the same old refrain that “Modi did not call the army until three days had passed”. Even more outrageous was their insistance on this point. When “Aaj Tak” contacted me on phone to get my response, I told the anchor that the GODHRA carnage took place on February 27th 2002, that the Hindu backlash commenced on February 28th and the Army was doing flag march on the forenoon of March 1st ………… He cut me short by saying that “this is exactly what we had said, no action was taken by Modi on 29 th, 30th and 31st thus giving three clear days to the murderers ……..” I had to cut him short by reminding him that the date 28 th was 28th of February 2002 and there was no 29th, 30th or 31st in that month. The phono was of course disconnected. However, it has to be said to the credit of “Aaj Tak” and “Headlines Today” that they called me for a full length studio debate from 9.15 P.M. 11.45 P.M. next day. But the details of that debate shall have to wait. For the present, however, it is imperative that certain facts are stated to prevent perpetuation of the LIES propagated in 2002.
Fact 1: That SHOOT AT SIGHT ORDERS had been given by the Government on 28th itself.
Being an Ex-DGP and also a Member of Parliament at that time, I was personally in touch with the office of DGP Gujarat and the Commissioner of Police Ahemedabad. I was keen to tell them, (a) To call in the Army atonce and (b) To issue “SHOOT AT SIGHT” orders to all officers of the rank of Sub-Inspectors and above. It was very comforting to learn that the Government of Gujarat had already taken both those steps by 2.30 P.M. on 28 th February itself. In fact the State Government had also requested for Armed Police reinforcements from neighbouring states, besides calling for the Army.
Fact 2: On the 28th February itself 10 Hindus had been shot dead and 16 Hindus had been wounded by POLICE BULLETS.
Fact 3: On the next day i.e., 1st March an additional 24 Hindus were shot dead and 40 Hindus wounded by POLICE BULLETS.
Fact 4: In the entire period of riots total Hindu casualties were 80 shot dead, and 207 wounded by POLICE BULLETS alone. (But no Delhi-based media showed any interest in giving coverage to these casualties.)
Fact 5: The Muslim counter attack which commenced from 1st March 2002 was no less ferocious. In the first three days alone, out of a total of 611 deaths, 101 were caused by POLICE FIRING. Of these, 61 were Hindus and 40 were Muslims.
Fact 6: As on 5th of March, as many as 40,000 Hindus had had to be given shelter in Relief Camps. (There was plenty of media coverage given to the plight of Muslims in relief camps but no Delhi-based media covered any Hindu relief camps.)
Fact 7: In answer to the Parliament questions, the UPA Home Minister gave the figures of casualties during Gujarat riots. There were Muslims killed 790, Hindus killed 254, wounded 2500 in all missing 223. Thus this proves the lies that what happened in Gujarat was a one-sided affair for every three Muslims who died in Gujarat, one Hindu was also killed.
Such heavy casualties in riot control are UNPRECEDENTED in the entire history of Indian Police. The figures of casualties caused by Police firing in the first three days alone indicate the FEROCITY of Police action. (And the “SECULAR” PARTIES and their MEDIA cohorts even to this day proclaim unabashedly that Modi ordered the Police “to look the other way” to give a free hand to murderers for three days). If they have any respect for TRUTH, they can cross-check the casualties with the records of the concerned hospitals. The Police is duty bound to carry the dead or the wounded in Police firings to the concerned Government hospitals.
With the Muslim counter attack commencing from 1st March onwards till the riots were quelled altogether, what took place in Gujarat was a full-fledged Hindu-Muslim Riot. It was no GENOCIDE, or POGROM, or STATE TERRORISM against the Muslims of Gujarat. “No modern day ‘NERO’ was looking elsewhere”. The modern day Chief Minister was dealing with the situation as best as was possible with the highly limited forces at his command.
Because of the spontaneous conflagration at scores and scores of locations, it is entirely possible that the Police or Fire brigade may have failed to reach a scene for hours, OR, having been spread so thin, the posse of Police that did reach the scene was deterred from intervening by the sheer ferocity of violence at that point in time. But to say that Police was restrained as a measure of Government POLICY is completely belied by the sheer immensity of casualties caused by Police firings.
The insane FEROCITY and BRUTALITY with which Ram Bhaktas including “innocent children and helpless women” were roasted alive at Godhra set the benchmark for the equally insane ferocity of the Hindu backlash and the ferocity of the Hindu backlash was followed by an equally insanely ferocious counter attack by the Muslims.
The Delhi-based media made out as though the whole of Gujarat was in flames. It concealed the fact that out of 18,600 villages, 240 Municipal towns and 25 Districts, the number of locations that were affected by riots was just 60. Not a single man-day was lost in the 200 odd Industrial townships by any Industry in Gujarat because of the riots. The examinations in Schools, Colleges and Universities were conducted as per schedule during the period of riots.
Irrefutable confirmation that it was a Communal RIOT and not a GENOCIDE or POGROM, came from the verdicts of Courts in POST-GODHRA riots cases:
(i) Deccan Herald reported on May 2004: Conviction of 3 confessing Muslims for 7 years for attempted murder.
(ii) Indian Express dated 19.03.2006 reported: 7 Muslims convicted for life for the murder of Mukesh Panchaal.
(iii) Indian Express dated 29.03.2006 reported: 9 Muslims convicted for attempted murder and Arms Act with sentences ranging from 10 years to 18 months.
(iv) Indian Express dated 19.05.2006 reported: 4 Muslims nailed by DNA tests and convicted for LIFE.
While the “SECULAR” PARTIES and the “SECULAR” Delhi-based Media singled out the Hindu backlash for mega-publicity, they BLANKED OUT the Godhra carnage, as well as the Muslim counter attack for reasons best known to them. Nevertheless, not only the MINORITY community of Gujarat, but the entire population of Gujarat had been well aware of “GUJARAT KA SACH”, ALL ALONG. As a result, all the Goebblesian propaganda had to bite the dust when the BJP was not only returned to serve Gujarat for a second term, by an overwhelming majority in the legislature, in the Post-Godhra-Post-Gujarat elections, but also continued to win the Corporation, the Municipal and the Gram Sabha elections with overwhelming margins. In a DEMOCRACY, THE PEOPLE KNOW WHO IS WHAT. AND THE PEOPLE ARE THE FINAL ARBITERS.
Tehelka and the sponsors of Tehelka have once again tried to vitiate communal harmony not only of Gujarat but of the entire country. People overwhelmingly believe that the Tehelka “sting operation” was sponsored by the Congress. If it is so, then, this would be the third major attempt of the “SECULAR” Congress to stoke the communal flames in the country. The first major attempt was made through the Sachar Commission who ordered a headcount of Muslims in India’s Defence Forces. Thanks to the Army Chief who firmly put his foot down to prevent the communal virus from infecting the Army. The second attempt was made when the Government of India filed the affidavit in the Supreme Court, in the Sethusamudram case wherein it QUESTIONED the very existence of Sri Ram. Now by sponsoring Tehelka, “Sting operation” it made a despicable third attempt to communalize the Indian Polity. What Tehelka “Sting operation” has done, clearly attracts Section 153A of the IPC and if Congress has not sponsored this “Sting operation” then it should not hesitate to prosecute Tehelka u/s 153A IPC. As Tehelka as well as the T.V. Channels who aired those tapes are headquartered at Delhi, it is the Delhi Police and consequently the Government of India to take the legal action against them u/s 153A IPC.
Nobody could have had any grouse if “Tehelka” and the T.V. Channels had passed on those tapes to the Supreme Court, for suitable action, or even telecasted the so-called confessions of VHP activists or the BJP MLA for the information of the people. And, if indeed, those confessions are genuine and have any evidentiary value in them, then the law must take its course against those whose guilt is stablished. The real MISCHIEF that attracts Section 153A IPC is the JUXTAPOSITION AND INTERSPERSION of rising flames and bellowing smoke with the earlier recorded bytes of the Gujarat riots, accompanied with crashing cymbals, beats of drums, screaming voices, and the highly provocative comments of the ‘anchors’ of the channels that aired those tapes.
There is a clear intention to inflame communal passions through what all was telecast in the name of “Gujarat ka Sach”, and it would be dangerous for the future of the country if such a nefarious act goes unpunished by default of the UPA Government.
Date: 29.10.2007
(B. P. SINGHAL)
IPS. (Retd.), Ex-MP Rajya Sabha
On 11.06.07 Palahalli says:
Kumar; Reasonable article. Even for one who is the younger brother of Ashok Singhal.
I really have three questions;
1. Most “Hindus” it would appear, were killed in Police firing. Singhal says March 1st was marked by an “equally” ferocious Muslim counter attack..Toll - Muslim -40/”Hindu”-61. The numbers are sorta close…but equally “ferocious” counter-attack?
2. The list of convicted in rioting, include only Muslims. Were there no “Hindus” convicted at all? Am I correct in assuming Singhal meant “Gujarat” riots as a whole?
3. Why is there no action against those that confessed on the Video? Because BarbarIndians conjectured that they were doctored?
Aside: As far as incitement is concerned, will the BJP promise never to use it’s CDs again and always use something like a Tehelka?
On 11.06.07 Kumar says:
As far as no actions against those confessed on Video, there are Nanavati, Banerjee commissions out there which is tasked with this job, so let them do their job. Expecting arrests by Modi govt could be construed as intereference. Though BarbarIndian and Offstumped have both dissceted the videos pretty darn well.
The venom’s missing in the sting:
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20071112&fname=Cover%20Story%20%28F%29&sid=6
On 11.06.07 Kumar says:
Palahalli, I’m glad that you found the article reasonable, despite the relatives of the messenger.
We can discuss the definition of ‘ferocious’, but doesn’t change much given the number of people killed - of which there were about 1/3 hindus. And police too.
It’s really hilarious to note that journos who were complaning about ‘3 days of army not being deployed’ were counting Feb 29th, Feb 30th and Feb 31st.