Comments on: Book Review: Exodus http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/ Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:56:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: cd1 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216902 cd1 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:09:10 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216902 ghostwriter, a few things to clarify...india is not a multi-ethnic society.please don't give the 10 negroids living in lakshwadeep or 20 orientals living in sikkim as an example. 99% of indians have the same genetic characteristics(and yes that includes the "central asian descendant" muslims and parsis. and secondly india is not a experiment. india existed in asoka's time(300bc), sankaracharya's time(the four mutts in the four corners of india circa 700ad) and akbar's time(1500ad). only commies believe the history of india starts at 1947. as for israel or any other country, there are very few deleterious consequences of hardened nationalism(bar a rare meglomaniac like hiter misusing it). israel along with singapore are the only two countries growing at 9% gdp growth in the developed countries. there have been less than 500 israeli people dead in terrorist attacks in last 4 years(vs 5000+ people in india). all the great countries...china,u.s.a,japan,russia...the only thing common between them is hardened nationalism. as for religion mixing with nationalism....a few basic rules solves the problem.1>no positive/negative discrimination against minority religions 2>strict separation of church and state 3>respect/acknowledgment of your cultural/religious heritage. in each of these three counts, india fails miserably. of course, we all wait for the messiah....err sorry i mean modi, to fix these problems. till then look we look at israel as the country hindustan could have been(patel instead of nehru, shastri instead of indira, modi instead of rahul baba?).... ghostwriter,
a few things to clarify…india is not a multi-ethnic society.please don’t give the 10 negroids living in lakshwadeep or 20 orientals living in sikkim as an example. 99% of indians have the same genetic characteristics(and yes that includes the “central asian descendant” muslims and parsis. and secondly india is not a experiment. india existed in asoka’s time(300bc), sankaracharya’s time(the four mutts in the four corners of india circa 700ad) and akbar’s time(1500ad). only commies believe the history of india starts at 1947. as for israel or any other country, there are very few deleterious consequences of hardened nationalism(bar a rare meglomaniac like hiter misusing it). israel along with singapore are the only two countries growing at 9% gdp growth in the developed countries. there have been less than 500 israeli people dead in terrorist attacks in last 4 years(vs 5000+ people in india). all the great countries…china,u.s.a,japan,russia…the only thing common between them is hardened nationalism.
as for religion mixing with nationalism….a few basic rules solves the problem.1>no positive/negative discrimination against minority religions 2>strict separation of church and state 3>respect/acknowledgment of your cultural/religious heritage. in each of these three counts, india fails miserably. of course, we all wait for the messiah….err sorry i mean modi, to fix these problems. till then look we look at israel as the country hindustan could have been(patel instead of nehru, shastri instead of indira, modi instead of rahul baba?)….

]]> By: Kishkindhaa http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216850 Kishkindhaa Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:45:28 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216850 Israel might be an experiment. India is definitely not. I doubt people will fall for the Bogeyman of "Hindu Jihadi" or "Hindu Taliban". Israel might be an experiment. India is definitely not. I doubt people will fall for the Bogeyman of “Hindu Jihadi” or “Hindu Taliban”.

]]> By: Ghost Writer http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216695 Ghost Writer Thu, 03 Jan 2008 01:01:31 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216695 Sorry - posted my comments in the wrong place the first time around :-) Sandeep, I am afraid that you exhibit a tendency quite common among reawakened Hindus of seeing Israel through rose-tinted glasses. Living in a country with a weak state apparatus (soft state??) and certainly books such as Exodus (which I liked too) add to this - but reality in Israel is much more complex and multi-layered. Read <a href="http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4997" rel="nofollow">this article by Daniel Pipes </a>(no Arab bigot that) and please do go to the links provided in the article. The consequence of hardened nationalism based on religious identity are hazardous. From conversations with Jewish friends here in Canada, one concludes that the scientifically bright, secular Jews (who let’s face it will create the next engineering miracles - and not the Haredim) are migrating out. The state is headed for Bearded Jews whose primary allegiance is to the religion and not to the state. The bottom line is - Israel like India is an experiment in building a multi-ethnic society based on shared historical cultural ties. We need to evolve the right balance of cultural pride and institution building. We need to create a firm, even-handed state - which will emerge from getting our institutions to work as opposed to fiery idealism of not refusing hospitality to Hindu pilgrims who wear black and say they are on the way to Sabarimala (the hospitality I am sure can be seen in Bangalore) Sorry - posted my comments in the wrong place the first time around :-)

Sandeep,

I am afraid that you exhibit a tendency quite common among reawakened Hindus of seeing Israel through rose-tinted glasses. Living in a country with a weak state apparatus (soft state??) and certainly books such as Exodus (which I liked too) add to this - but reality in Israel is much more complex and multi-layered. Read this article by Daniel Pipes (no Arab bigot that) and please do go to the links provided in the article.

The consequence of hardened nationalism based on religious identity are hazardous. From conversations with Jewish friends here in Canada, one concludes that the scientifically bright, secular Jews (who let’s face it will create the next engineering miracles - and not the Haredim) are migrating out. The state is headed for Bearded Jews whose primary allegiance is to the religion and not to the state.

The bottom line is - Israel like India is an experiment in building a multi-ethnic society based on shared historical cultural ties. We need to evolve the right balance of cultural pride and institution building. We need to create a firm, even-handed state - which will emerge from getting our institutions to work as opposed to fiery idealism of not refusing hospitality to Hindu pilgrims who wear black and say they are on the way to Sabarimala (the hospitality I am sure can be seen in Bangalore)

]]> By: yadbhavishya http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216456 yadbhavishya Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:20:55 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216456 Sandeep, I have read Exodus, The Haj and Mila 18, Exodus still stands out to be my best book read in long years. Just the sheer description of the situations and the characters reacting to them keeps you gripped and we Indians have tons to learn from the jews and their experiences. In the mid 80s, my father had written to the Israeli publishers and the embassy saying he wanted to contact Leon Uris personally and needed his contact address. He still has the letter that they wrote back saying that the information was confidential at that time! Sandeep, I have read Exodus, The Haj and Mila 18, Exodus still stands out to be my best book read in long years. Just the sheer description of the situations and the characters reacting to them keeps you gripped and we Indians have tons to learn from the jews and their experiences.

In the mid 80s, my father had written to the Israeli publishers and the embassy saying he wanted to contact Leon Uris personally and needed his contact address. He still has the letter that they wrote back saying that the information was confidential at that time!

]]> By: Chakravarty http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216093 Chakravarty Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:58:20 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216093 Frontal attack on Hindu way of life. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6984065.stm Frontal attack on Hindu way of life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6984065.stm

]]> By: Aravind http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216061 Aravind Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:02:15 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216061 Anti-semitism is european phenomenon.....I agree with Gujjubhai that it was a deliberate strategy to create a mess. Along the same lines found this article on Aryan invasion theory by Stephan Knapp. <a href="http://www.stephen-knapp.com/death_of_the_aryan_invasion_theory.htm" rel="nofollow">Death of the Aryan Invasion Theory</a> Where at the end of the article he simply declares.... <i> The point of all this is that even if Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc., all keep their own ideology, legends, and traditions, we should realize that all of these legends and conceptions of God and forms of worship ultimately refer to the same Supreme God and lesser demigods, although they may be called by different names according to present day variations in region and culture. In other words, all these doctrines and faiths are simply outgrowths of the original religion and worship of the one Supreme Deity that spread throughout the world many thousands of years ago from the same basic source, and which is now expressed through the many various cultural differences in the world. Therefore, no matter what religion we may consider ourselves, we are all a part of the same family. We are merely another branch of the same tree which can be traced to the original pre-historic roots of spiritual thought that are found in the Vedic culture, the oldest and most developed philosophical and spiritual tradition in the world.</i> Anti-semitism is european phenomenon…..I agree with Gujjubhai that it was a deliberate strategy to create a mess.

Along the same lines found this article on Aryan invasion theory by Stephan Knapp.

Death of the Aryan Invasion Theory

Where at the end of the article he simply declares….

The point of all this is that even if Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc., all keep their own ideology, legends, and traditions, we should realize that all of these legends and conceptions of God and forms of worship ultimately refer to the same Supreme God and lesser demigods, although they may be called by different names according to present day variations in region and culture. In other words, all these doctrines and faiths are simply outgrowths of the original religion and worship of the one Supreme Deity that spread throughout the world many thousands of years ago from the same basic source, and which is now expressed through the many various cultural differences in the world. Therefore, no matter what religion we may consider ourselves, we are all a part of the same family. We are merely another branch of the same tree which can be traced to the original pre-historic roots of spiritual thought that are found in the Vedic culture, the oldest and most developed philosophical and spiritual tradition in the world.

]]> By: Kumar http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216014 Kumar Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:34:29 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216014 If I'm not mistaken, Uris' "Haj" present's the other side of the same story. If I’m not mistaken, Uris’ “Haj” present’s the other side of the same story.

]]> By: Gujjubhai http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216012 Gujjubhai Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:32:53 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-216012 Bro Sandeep, I don't think the British "made a mess" when they left the colonies. Creating the mess was a deliberate strategy, an extension of their usual divide-and-conquer. They needed to ensure that once the colonies became free and the fervour of nationalism swept the formerly colonized, they would not turn onto their former colonial masters with a vengeance. Hence the need to create other enemies and distract their attention away from the brutality of the former colonial regime. The British would then pretend to be friendly to both sides while continuing to sprinkle fuel to the fire in a subtle fashion. This insurance policy has worked remarkably well - India and Pak have been too busy fighting each other and sending their elite to Oxbride to decolonize themselves from the anglosphere even after 1947. Same thing with the Middle East. Now they will do the same thing in Iraq - watch out : I predict a bloody partition and civil war in Iraq when the Americans pull out in a couple of years and the creation of three countries for Shias, Sunnis and Kurds who will prompty go after each other instead of the Americans. Bro Sandeep, I don’t think the British “made a mess” when they left the colonies. Creating the mess was a deliberate strategy, an extension of their usual divide-and-conquer. They needed to ensure that once the colonies became free and the fervour of nationalism swept the formerly colonized, they would not turn onto their former colonial masters with a vengeance. Hence the need to create other enemies and distract their attention away from the brutality of the former colonial regime. The British would then pretend to be friendly to both sides while continuing to sprinkle fuel to the fire in a subtle fashion. This insurance policy has worked remarkably well - India and Pak have been too busy fighting each other and sending their elite to Oxbride to decolonize themselves from the anglosphere even after 1947. Same thing with the Middle East. Now they will do the same thing in Iraq - watch out : I predict a bloody partition and civil war in Iraq when the Americans pull out in a couple of years and the creation of three countries for Shias, Sunnis and Kurds who will prompty go after each other instead of the Americans.

]]> By: Sandeep http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-215961 Sandeep Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:02:09 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-215961 Shailendra, Unfortunately I haven't read O Jerusalem. Shailendra,

Unfortunately I haven’t read O Jerusalem.

]]> By: Shailendra Mathur http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-215956 Shailendra Mathur Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:38:34 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/31/book-review-exodus/#comment-215956 How does Exodus compare to O Jerusalem, by Dominique Lapierre and Larry Collins? How does Exodus compare to O Jerusalem, by Dominique Lapierre and Larry Collins?

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