It is now my turn to add fuel to the fire pitch in my bits to the debate that began with Nitin coining a new word: anti-Hindutva. The debate in itself is another proof of how public discourse has been perverted in India. It is impossible to offer any argument in defence of the Hindu view without embarking on a neverending cycle of justification, which finally results in the obvious label: Hindutvavadi. I suppose the mere label suffices: the rest of the argument, whatever its reasonableness, doesn’t matter. The reputation of this blog is just one of the testimonies for this phenomenon.
No one word has been targetted for so long by so many people, and over such prolonged duration. What exactly is their source of dread and/or disgust for Hindutva? These are questions I haven’t had answers from any of these people. I cannot speak for them but from what I’ve seen, heard, and read, here’s a brief list of why they find it appalling:
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Hindutva is based on some aspects of the Nazi ideology, and aggressive and violent nationalism.
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Prominent founders of Hindutva are Savarkar and Gowlwalkar.
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Hindutva stands for granting second-class citizenship to and/or exterminating religious minorities.
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Hindutva preaches regressive ideas.
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Organizations such as the RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc are representatives of this ideology. As examples, the anti-Hindutva folks point us to the violence that these organizations have perpetrated.
Fair enough but not enough. I’d like to know how many among the anti-Hindutva folks have taken pains enough to undertake a reasonable study of Hindutva before reaching this conclusion. Or is their understanding based on what appears in the English mainstream media that routinely splashes pictures of Trishul-wielding people? The English media stands almost entirely discredited today. And the trishul-wielding variety exists in every political party/movement/ideology.
On the other hand, if they base their understanding on the origins and growth of the RSS, I’d say their understanding is incomplete. Koenraad Elst’s masterful two-volume Saffron Swastika is a good start. What we need to understand is what exactly is the RSS (and allied groups) fighting for. Admittedly, –I’ve said this numerous times on this blog–their methods are pretty sloppy and lack sophistication.
One fundamental problem why Hindutva is viewed with suspicion is because it is equated with “militant Islam.”
Tags: Commentary, History, Indian Politics, Media Watch, Pseudo Secularism Hall of Shame, Society & Culture, Weblogs
Did you hit ‘publish’ before you finished the post? It doesn’t read like a complete post!
> One fundamental problem why Hindutva is viewed
> with suspicion is because it is equated with “militant Islam.”
you havent told us why this should not happen.
Maybe because Hindutvavadis do not stone Muslims’ processions, desecrate their masjids and build mandirs on top of them, kill Muslims just for fun, burn Muslim shops because someone put a Gita in the toilet in Guantanamo, cry “Holocaust” after 750 Hindus and 250 Muslims die in a riot that started after 59 Muslims returning from the Haj were targeted and burnt alive?
And here is a reason why Hindustvawadis *should* be called militant:
For having the gall to tear down an out-of-use masjid that was built on top of where they say their Lord Ram was born, and for trying to build a mandir at that spot.
I mean, Muslims have just torn down 64,000 temples and built masjids on top of most. Jeez, so what? I mean, if that number was over 6 million, yes, I would think Hindutwavadis had some claim to wanting their #1 temple back, but for Hindutwavadi monkeys to try to act when less than even a paltry 100,000 temples have been razed..that is just plain militant. Harrumph!
> you havent told us why this should not happen.
Hello, troll - good to see you again.
if you love hinduism, you cannot be anti-hindutva. let me give an example…benny hinn came to mumbai explicity to “harvest souls” and millions attended his 3 day meeting. all the letters/objections from intellectuals/physicians/hindus came to naught. next year all excited, he decided to come again to bangalore. but this time bajrang-dal/vhp got into the act. they called a dharna and burnt the obligatory state buses. less than 50,000 people showed up at his meeting and he has not step foot in india since then.
the sangh parivar, with its ideology of hindutva, is the only thing preventing hinduism from being over-run by billions of dollars of saudi/u.s money. their explicit aim is to eradicate hinduism. now there are plenty of “in name only” hindus who don’t care if hinduism survives the next century. and yes religions do vanish…ask the parsis in mumbai or the buddhists in korea. just like any true patriot will not call for dismantling of the defense forces, no true hindu will castigate the sangh parivar.
as for the use of violence and comparisons to militant islam, sangh parivar has never been branded a terrorist organisation by any country in the world. it either indulges in harmless hooliganism(like burning buses or breaking pots/windows) or it gets involved in “reactive” violence like gujarat riots. people who say that it should totally eschew violence and just do only social service, are living in a fantasy world. in the real world, 80 year old swami’s get brutally attacked by followers of “prince of peace”.
I second what CD1 has put down in a succint manner. Personally I had to cross the Rubicon of secular mindset to jump into the realm of Hindutva(whatever it means). My understanding of Hindutva and my taking to it is to save Hinduism from internal and external onslaught. The sole reason being that the establishment (read Congress and Communists and Secularist) had had a craftily designed program to eliminate self-pride by making Hindus feel guilty for every historical accident our country had faced. This strategy of shifting of blame, though not explicitly, along with deliberate attempt to shield any achievement and contribution of Hindus to this country and the world has been very successful in softening concerted opposition to Congress and Communists alike. Between them they tacitly agree to be each other’s political enemies but wouldn’t want others to oppose them. Hindus, as a vote bank, are the real threat to these people and hence would go to any length to consolidate anti-hindu votes and ensure the sustenance of division amongst Hindus. Arjun Singh wasn’t concerned about OBC’s plight for the last 55 years of Congress rule. His focuss was to divide Hindus in Madhya Pradesh and buy the loyalty of the majority OBC community there to help his son win elections and become Chief Minister. At the same time he wanted reservation for Muslims in the Army. Then they instituted Sachhar committee after a Muslim in America wrote a book on how police force behaves during communal riots in India. This is a clear act of subversion and perfidy to weaken any opposition.
To me all this affects Hinduism and its followers. People often say Hinduism is stronger and can withstand onslaught but for one who has a modicum of understanding of international politics would realise that 40% of our population is poor and are really vulnerable to these soul harvesters. Only a determined government with a long term view on unity and integrity of this country can tackle this organised crime. To me this conversion business is social engineering and we have seen all through history that any social engineering is bound to fail catastrophically. Look at Soviet Union(communism), Pakistan, Bangladesh(West Pakistan), Srilanka(ethnic cleansing), Burma, China(a looming danger always awaits this country) and so on.
India will remain as one as long as Hindus are in majority because they have shown the tolerance it takes to coexist with others but any other religion becoming dominant will tear this country apart.And for that reason I want Hindus to unite to save this country. Also as a Hindu I have the right to protect my people and its culture too.
> it either indulges in harmless hooliganism(like burning buses
> or breaking pots/windows) or it gets involved in “reactive”
> violence like gujarat riots.
the more those who follow hindtutva explain away events this way, the more they ensure it will be faced with suspicion and distrist.
when hindtvawadis face up honestly to the wrongs comitted in their names, and don’t make feeble attempts to wave them off, that’s when the good they do will also be appreciated.
Shuvro Aikath
‘faced with suspicion and distrist’ by whom??
To quote Amit Varma quoting Ranjit Hoskote: “[T]he roots of Hindutva do not lie in Hinduism. Rather, they lie in a crude mixture of German romanticism, Victorian puritanism and Nazi methodology.” The Nazi allusion is controversial. But the other two are certainly true.
And Sandeep one more thing about Hindutva according the deep intellects. It seeks to re-establish hierarchical caste-based Brahmanism/Brahminical Hinduism, an absurd charge if there ever was one.
> faced with suspicion and distrist’ by whom??
for e.g., the same people that made sandeep ask, “What exactly is their source of dread and/or disgust for Hindutva?”
[...] It started with Thapar writing on the “Modification of Indian Politics“. Nitin picked up the gauntlet to define the debate on clear terms. Offstumped carried the debate further with posts on inclusivity and national interest. Sandeep added his perspective on the subject. [...]
Shanth and CD1, you guys took the words right out of my mouth! I too followed the same trajectory from being a leftist intellectual to a pseudo-secularist to a Hindutvawadi for exactly the same reasons.
The reality is that India has been under attack constantly since the 7th century - and we have continued to lose. Both in terms of territory and religio-cultural influence, we lost the north-west, Bangladesh and South east Asia to Islam from 7th century to 17th century. Colonial and post-colonial days have been worse as the elite were converted to anglophilia and its logical counterpart, Hinduphobia. This was done by careful application of divide-and-rule, Macaulayite education, Aryan Invasion Theory, Christian conversion etc.
>People often say Hinduism is stronger and can withstand >onslaught but for one who has a modicum of understanding of >international politics would realise that 40% of our >population is poor and are really vulnerable to these soul >harvesters.
Well, the historical loss of influence and territory show that Hinduism is just not that strong. In fact, it has been quite vulnerable both to military conquests and socio-cultural aggressions. Look no further than Afghanistan and nort-west Pakistan. Once upon a time, they were the center of Hinduism as part of a hihly advanced civilization. That is the land where Takshshila University flourished, Sanskrit was the spoken language and Maharshi Panini wrote the Ashtadhyayi grammar as early as 5th century BC. Look at the same people after they converted to Islam. It has become an intellectual wasteland where the predominant form of entertainment is throwing stones at adultresses or playing football with severed heads.
The biggest mistake we Hindus have made is in thinking that we were finally safe in our country. However, Islam and Christianity never ceased the war, they just adapted to the new political reality but continued their aggression on Hinduism just the same. Islam cultivated fundamentalism and jehidi terrorism while Christians just took control of educating our children and channeled billions of dollars of foreign money to purchase souls of our most downtrodden and vulnerable sections of the population.
The consequences of this will be deadly. It is not too crazy to imagine that states like Orissa, Kerala and Tamil Nadu will become the Christian equivalent of Afghanistan in this century and completely lose their Hindu heritage. After all, if it can happen to the land of Panini, why can’t it happen to the land of Shankaracharya or Lord Jagannath? Make no mistake, people - we are under strong attack on all frontiers. Islam is attacking us in Kashmir and Assam, Communists have captured Nepal and they are extending a Maoist rebellioin right in the heart of the country from Nepal and Bihar down to MP, Maharashtra and AP, and Christianity is attacking us in the south in Kerala and TN. This is a desperate situation, but one that our educated middle classes are blissfully oblivious to.
As always has been the curse on us Hindus through-out history, the sharpest knives in our backs were stabbed by none other than those we thought were our own. The traitors in Congress, Communist parties, and lefty-psec media establishment have been the strongest supporters of this Hinduism eradication campaign that has been going on since 1947. The greatest irony is that these Mir Jaffars and Jaichands of today are digging their own graves. They don’t realize that as soon as Islam and Christianity become powerful enough, the anti-Hindu psecs will also be the targets of their swords.
The only hope in hell we have of saving ourselves in this war is the Hindutwawadis. Yes, they are crude and unrefined. Yes, they are violent. But they are the only people who can save my - and your - ass. That is why my only prayer to Ishwar is to see Modi become the PM of India some day.
Vivek,
You are absolutely right. I’m planning to do a part-2.
[...] This is where I wind up my previous post on Hindutva, which I had left unfinished. I pointed to a fundamental error in understanding Hindutva by comparing it to "militant Islam." [...]
People who are always taking about “violence” and Hindutvavadis should look at history, has being non violent given Hindus anything except massacres and ethnic cleansing?
On the contrary Muslims seized Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangaldesh through violence. So obviously the Hindus (at least the one’s who are not brain dead) realised that being violent pays off, I see it as a blessing that this shift is taking place after years of failure, this was like Shivaji who gave up all that Rajput “honour” nonsense and was not hesitant to adopt the Muslim tactics of deception to liberate Hindus.
But the biggest enemies of Hindus are not Muslimr or xtians but Hindu traitors, the same cowardly commies who ran to Bharat once their dreamland of Pakistan was created and are now openly plotting against Hindus in collusion with Muslims and soul harvesters, they are shameless about their Muslim asskissing (check the coward Dasmunshis “advice” to Taslima http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=0e153ac5-314b-46e2-9d7b-56e6310a44bb)
I am glad at Dasmunshi’s comment, it makes it clear to everyone what Indian secularism stands for.
The secularists will be responsible for uniting Hindus.
Shuvro
‘They’ already have made up their minds(without source) i.e. Hindutva is not good and after that any Hindu reactions/retaliations reinforces it.
Inspite of all the murder and mayhem around all of us caused by islam since times immemorial, ‘they’ still do not utter a word about the source of islamic savagery. Why not start with the benchmark set for Hindutva i.e. “Islam is bad and koran encourages violence against non-muslims”?
> Why not start with the benchmark set for Hindutva
> i.e. “Islam is bad and koran encourages violence
> against non-muslims”?
are you saying benchmark set for Hindutva is “hinduism is bad and bhagavad gita encourages violence against non-hindus?”
please give me link to where this benchmark is mentioned. i would like to go see this kind of craziness.
Shuvro,
That was a rhetorical question but not far off the mark.
Jihad is the word and if you delve further, you can reach its source, koran, which encourages violence against non-muslims and wishes to subjugate(make dhimmis)/kill all non muslims. No?
Everybody please go to faithfreedom.org, a site run by an ex-muslim. It has suras from the Quran and incidents from the life of Mohammed. These sort of murder/loot/rape-inciting statements (all to be done to civilians) are all over the quran (I have read the paper version).
Can anyone point to incitement to kill civilians in Hindu texts? Even in the Gita the teaching is to go fight the *army*, not butcher civilians. And even then the war was about a kingdom stolen by cheating, and not returned even after the exile conditions were met. Not even 5 villages were returned, forget the whole kingdom.
Apologists for Islam should examine how rational they are when they try to equate militant islam with Hindutva. They should also start reading about islam, what it is doing all over the world, what it has done over the centuries, and whether or not all this (including Osama bin Laden’s work) is a deviation from the teachings of islam.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
Explore the site, don’t stop at the main page.
(Of course, nothing opens your eyes like reading the original quran and hadith, but people are too lazy to do that. They just want to lay out their views without doing research/homework. That is the meaning of “rational” nowadays)..
[...] Here is the fourth in a series of posts originally provoked by this debate on Nitin’s blog and additional perspectives from Sandeep on his blog. [...]