Comments on: Another Western Whitewash http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/ Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:00:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Kumar http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231524 Kumar Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:33:42 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231524 kaafir, <i>Now if we were discussing Aurangzeb, that’s a different story</i> It's convenient to remember bad deeds of one and good deeds of other. After all the acorn didn't fall too far off from the tree. kaafir,

Now if we were discussing Aurangzeb, that’s a different story
It’s convenient to remember bad deeds of one and good deeds of other.
After all the acorn didn’t fall too far off from the tree.

]]> By: kaafir http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231301 kaafir Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:53:06 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231301 Kumar, I wasn't comparing Valmiki and Ashok to Akbar - I was merely giving examples of transformation. The scale, the reasons etc. are obviously different in these three cases. I personally have no issue in accepting that Akbar massacred thousands and was cruel in many instances, but he was also the most tolerant and open-minded of the Mughal emperors. I see no need to focus on one and not the other, but if you think that his massacres deserve more airing, then that's your prerogative. Now if we were discussing Aurangzeb, that's a different story. :) Kumar,

I wasn’t comparing Valmiki and Ashok to Akbar - I was merely giving examples of transformation. The scale, the reasons etc. are obviously different in these three cases.

I personally have no issue in accepting that Akbar massacred thousands and was cruel in many instances, but he was also the most tolerant and open-minded of the Mughal emperors. I see no need to focus on one and not the other, but if you think that his massacres deserve more airing, then that’s your prerogative.

Now if we were discussing Aurangzeb, that’s a different story. :)

]]> By: Kumar http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231300 Kumar Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:31:04 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231300 Google for "A Tyrannical Monarch" to get some link on Akbar's achievements that's not really mainstream history. Google for “A Tyrannical Monarch” to get some link on Akbar’s achievements that’s not really mainstream history.

]]> By: Kumar http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231299 Kumar Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:30:20 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231299 kaafir: I'm not denying Akbar's new found religion, compassion in his old age. I'm aware of Din-e-illahi and hindus in his ayroll. Comparing someone who massacared thousands in his youth with a common thief (Valimiki) who looted travellers on a highway is a bit of stretch. And even Valmiki had to do his bit to transition to the other side. More appropriate comparison would with say modern day Kaing Khek Iev (also known as Duch), (Pol Pot's pal) who's recently found Christanity and states that his acts were part of some divine will or design. kaafir:

I’m not denying Akbar’s new found religion, compassion in his old age. I’m aware of Din-e-illahi and hindus in his ayroll.

Comparing someone who massacared thousands in his youth with a common thief (Valimiki) who looted travellers on a highway is a bit of stretch. And even Valmiki had to do his bit to transition to the other side.

More appropriate comparison would with say modern day Kaing Khek Iev (also known as Duch), (Pol Pot’s pal) who’s recently found Christanity and states that his acts were part of some divine will or design.

]]> By: sridhar http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231284 sridhar Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:20:09 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231284 I guess all of us should go back and read S.L.Bhyrappa's "Aavarana" once again !! I guess all of us should go back and read S.L.Bhyrappa’s “Aavarana” once again !!

]]> By: Kishkindhaa http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231264 Kishkindhaa Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:51 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231264 Din-i-illahi was the continuation of an inculturation attempt started by Akbar's teacher Chisti. Fatehpur Sikri built by Akbar reveals a number of defaced Jaina and Hindu murtis. Din-i-illahi was the continuation of an inculturation attempt started by Akbar’s teacher Chisti. Fatehpur Sikri built by Akbar reveals a number of defaced Jaina and Hindu murtis.

]]> By: kaafir http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231263 kaafir Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:57:46 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231263 Kumar, Your comment is a bit unfair. Basically, what you're saying is that humans are incapable of improving themselves by realizing their mistakes and making changes in their lives as their knowledge/experience increases. And if they do, then the focus should remain on their mistakes, and it is a case of <i>sau choohe khaa ke billi Hajj ko chali</i> (or, <i>muh mein Ram, bagal mein churi</i>). Wasn't Valmiki a thief before he became a sage? And king Ashok was very cruel before he came in contact with Buddhism - transformed from <i>chand</i> Ashok to <i>priyadarshi/dhamma</i> Ashok. I'm in agreement that any whitewashing of history to present a rosy picture needs to be criticized and countered, but that also goes for any tarring of history while disregarding the facts just because a king was Muslim. Kumar,

Your comment is a bit unfair. Basically, what you’re saying is that humans are incapable of improving themselves by realizing their mistakes and making changes in their lives as their knowledge/experience increases. And if they do, then the focus should remain on their mistakes, and it is a case of sau choohe khaa ke billi Hajj ko chali (or, muh mein Ram, bagal mein churi).

Wasn’t Valmiki a thief before he became a sage? And king Ashok was very cruel before he came in contact with Buddhism - transformed from chand Ashok to priyadarshi/dhamma Ashok.

I’m in agreement that any whitewashing of history to present a rosy picture needs to be criticized and countered, but that also goes for any tarring of history while disregarding the facts just because a king was Muslim.

]]> By: Kumar http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231261 Kumar Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:09:37 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231261 Sridhar, <i>Akbar was probably a better human being and was constantly looking for spiritual guidance and in the process toyed with all religions including christianity. </i> Better human being at a later point in his life, perhaps. The phrase about cat going on Haj after swallowing 100 rats was coined with Akbar in mind; my guess. Sridhar,
Akbar was probably a better human being and was constantly looking for spiritual guidance and in the process toyed with all religions including christianity.
Better human being at a later point in his life, perhaps.
The phrase about cat going on Haj after swallowing 100 rats was coined with Akbar in mind; my guess.

]]> By: Mayuresh Gaikwad http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231260 Mayuresh Gaikwad Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:48:15 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231260 Forgot to mention - in such instances, I would say that talking about 4 rulers is a statistically significant figure, assuming that each one would have atleast 3 daughters. Has even one of the (atleast) twelve girls born into the Mughal family been married to a Hindu king for a strategic alliance? Why do these historians not resort to logical thinking before making sweeping statements? Forgot to mention - in such instances, I would say that talking about 4 rulers is a statistically significant figure, assuming that each one would have atleast 3 daughters. Has even one of the (atleast) twelve girls born into the Mughal family been married to a Hindu king for a strategic alliance?

Why do these historians not resort to logical thinking before making sweeping statements?

]]> By: Mayuresh Gaikwad http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231259 Mayuresh Gaikwad Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:41:49 +0000 http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/03/21/another-western-whitewash/#comment-231259 I want to know whether any of the magnanimous Mughal rulers married off their daughters to Hindu kings to form strategic alliances with them. Or was it always a one way street? A positive answer to this question will tell me that the Mughals were magnanimous rulers and actually cared about strategic alliances. A negative answer (it is what I expect history to reveal) will surely mean that the Mughals had a conversion agenda! We have four great Mughals starting from Akbar to Aurangzeb (great because the Mughal rule was at its peak during their times). Can someone with a better knowledge of history answer this question? I want to know whether any of the magnanimous Mughal rulers married off their daughters to Hindu kings to form strategic alliances with them. Or was it always a one way street?

A positive answer to this question will tell me that the Mughals were magnanimous rulers and actually cared about strategic alliances.

A negative answer (it is what I expect history to reveal) will surely mean that the Mughals had a conversion agenda! We have four great Mughals starting from Akbar to Aurangzeb (great because the Mughal rule was at its peak during their times).

Can someone with a better knowledge of history answer this question?

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