Musings on the Babri Masjid Anniversary
Tuesday, 9. December 2008 - 6:18 PM
I know I’m a little late but hear me out.
Interesting sights open themselves up when you saunter inside Muslim-dominated localities in Bangalore (perhaps in other cities as well, I don’t know). Over the past two weeks, I was witness to large, bold signs of December 6, BLACK DAY FOR MUSLIMS and variations thereof. One sign was an exact replica of what I saw in the U.S when I was there in the aftermath of 9/11: Dec 6, NEVER FORGET.
And I agree. It’ll do good for all Indians to never forget Dec 6, 1992. And we haven’t forgotten it. Only, we remember it for all the wrong reasons.
It is both meaningless and beyond the scope of this post to delve into dissecting the right or wrong of the demolition.
The Babri Masjid demolition (or Ayodhya 1992 as I’ll alternatively call it) is definitely one of the watershed events of Indian history, comparable to maybe the Emergency in terms of sheer significance. Communal polarization and the nature of public discourse are two chief aspects among the things that it definitively changed, perhaps forever. These two aspects were simmering ever since Nehru set to work his destructive machinations on the Indian people and his daughter consciously winnowed it. Needless to say, both are inseparable. But it is arguable whether the nature of public discourse is the result of the polarizing style of politics or the other way around. I’d like to think it is the former especially after Nehru-worship was institutionalized in public life. One of the defining characteristics of Nehru-veneration was censorship. Although under Nehru, censorship was largely surreptitious, it set a precedent. Paraphrasing Arun Shourie, it started a prefatory where politics, bureaucracy, and discourse began to coagulate around moral degeneration. SL Bhyrappa perceptively notes that Indira Gandhi was singlehandedly responsible for hastening the erosion of ancient Indian values still current when she was consolidating her position. Her mantra to attain democratic tyranny, in Bhyrappa’s words was to “do whatever, but I want my cut.” The revelations from the Mitrokhin Archives show the dangerous extent to which this “do whatever” mantra went.
Readers of this blog are familiar with the “there’s no smoke without fire” conviction I hold. In this case, the fire was mostly lit by the British, and later, the Communist version of Indian history. In a line, it is dishonest history. At no time in India’s history has there been the kind of Hindu-Muslim amity that secular historians want us to believe. Each time ordinary Muslims have either wanted to return to Hinduism, or tried to follow Hindu customs, Mullahs would pierce the air with the standard Islam is in danger warcry. There’s also the argument that asks us not to blame present-day Muslims for the atrocities of their forefathers. Fair enough. But the point is not to blame but to let the truth out in the open so that we learn from historical mistakes. However, our eminent historians insist on perpetuating lies: the classic and now-familiar example is trying to twist poor Aurangzeb’s character. Had Aurangzeb been alive, he’d kill these historians first: he carried out his savagery with resolute faith that he was committing the most holy acts. On another note, will these secular eminences extend the same courtesy to historical injustices in the Hindu society? Are they as magnanimous in asking the Dalits/Lower Castes to “forgive and forget” the historical injustices done to them by the “upper castes.” On the contrary, they ensure that the pressure against today’s “upper castes” is steadfastly maintained.
While we are quick to internalize the latest manure from the West, we aren’t similarly agile on the good side. The example stands out is the Holocaust Museum, and punishing Holocaust denial . Attempts to host a similar Hindu Holocaust musem, or exhibitions of Aurangzeb’s tyranny are derided with the familiar shrillery.
This hypocritical narrative is what continues to bleed Indian society. Ayodhya 1992 is no different. Blame-game replaced honest instrospection. I’ve read a few secular narratives on Ayodhya 1992, and they all echo if not embellish the same hypocrisy: Hindu communalism and more specifically, L.K. Advani was behind it. Not one narrative cared to present the complete perspective of the five-decade-long politics of pushing Hindus to the corner. And so, ten years later, in the aftermath of the Gujarat riots, the same narrative was revived: Narendra Modi instead of L K Advani, and a passing reference to the train fire (oh, which is now an accident!).
The character of public discourse and politics are what lead to the Babri Masjid demolition. As numerous other writers have noted, unless this fraudulent history is purged, India will witness Ayodhya 1992 in numerous other forms. That history-correction is but a dream given the current atmosphere.
Tags: Ayodhya 1992, Babri Masjid Demolition, Babri Masjid Demolition 1992, Fraudulent Indian History, History, Indian History, Islamic Conquest of India, L K Advani, Narendra Modi, Perverted Public Discourse, Pseudosecularism Hall of Shame, Random Thoughts on Ayodhya 1992, Rath Yatra, Secular History
9. December 2008 - 9:56 PM
Valid point. I guess the way BJP has progressed after that event shows exactly what the people who led the movement stand for.
10. December 2008 - 12:34 AM
nice post sir. I really hope BJP comes to power and builds the temple.
But the thing that worries me is the impact that rural+muslim population will have on the general elections this time.
kindly visit my blog.. bertienjeeves.blogspot.com on quite similar lines…
10. December 2008 - 1:41 AM
please dont call the disputed structure a Masjid. It wasnt.. It was just a disputed strucutre.
10. December 2008 - 10:36 AM
Well said Sandeep. Am an instant-fan.
10. December 2008 - 9:50 PM
Hey did you see this Sandeep- http://www.indiabanao.org/petitions/Mumbai_attack/
10. December 2008 - 10:06 PM
You see the rumblings of Ayodhya 1992 in Shivajinangar, Frazer Town, Benson Town- some are pretty provocative in nature.
Whilst I agree that the the event itself was a watershed in Indian politics, I am not sure what relevance it has today’s political landscape. Lets face it- in the era of coalition politics the BJP cannot afford to promise a temple in its manifesto. It will be political harakiri.
As for the telling the truth about Hindus, we can rant about the Communist version of History in our schools but the fact of the matter is truth has been hidden far too deep in the anals of history, for anyone who tries to bring it up might just rake up too much dust.
11. December 2008 - 1:20 AM
The destruction of the mosque (and we should call it as such if the secular-mullah combine insist) was a bigger event than the emergency (which really was nothing but passing madness). I think Hindus shed a very big historical burden that day (of being defeated, tame, lily-livered etc.)
The Islamic invasions did more than destroy temples and architecture – they undid a complete civilization. What would happen if Osama Bin Laden broke through all of America’s defenses, destroyed every building in NYC and rounded up and shot every scholar and student in each of the Ivy League universities? Would it not set American power and influence back a couple of generations – would it not shatter their creativity and pursuit of excellence?
But that is exactly what happened in India. The destruction of Taxila and Nalanda – not to mention Vijaynagar – robbed India of all her human capital. It left us limping in the race amongst nations. Hence the term “wounded civilization”
However, reality is that no one can undo history – the important thing is to be honest about this history, learn from it and then move on
11. December 2008 - 1:22 PM
Nice analogy Ghostwriter…and a fantastic article by Sandeep..I liked it..may be it is time now to rewrite the history books and the rules of public discourses and debates, even if it means raking up too much dust..
One thing I’m not sure of is BJP’s ability, under Mr Advani and Mr Rajnath Singh, to act on its promises made to millions of Hindus
11. December 2008 - 2:26 PM
All roots of present day’s problems are directly related to the following four things.
1- Kashmir: Terror by Indian military and agencies
2- Demolition of Babri Masjid
3- Injustice and killing of Indian Muslims.
4- Helping US in Afghanistan and Iraq to Kill Muslims.
We should be ready to face all such attacks as we are inviting them by our deeds.
We are supporting and involved with US and Israel to kill Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine
Do you think these polices will bring peace and progress to our country. You cannot ignore sentiments of 250 millions Indian Muslims, if they starts retaliating to racists policies and planned genocide, then Indian will become next Iraq.
11. December 2008 - 4:20 PM
I would like to point out that Pakistani Muslims like OS Ahmed do not speak for Indian Muslims. It would do well for them to stop killing Shias in Pakistan and India. W
11. December 2008 - 11:17 PM
@ Ahmad..
Your post is laughable and invokes disgust in me. In effect you are saying that you are not to be blamed if you become a terrorist one day.
P.S. Don’t use ‘we’ again in your post because WE INDIANS classify your kind of bunch as terrorists.
Take all the offense and get lost.
12. December 2008 - 5:25 AM
Ahmed,
If you dont like what India is doing you are free to leave India and go to any other place of your liking. We have already sacrificed land worth two countries for people like you who think they cannot live with Hindus. You did not leave when you had a chance, now you have lost to right to crib about how we live.
16. December 2008 - 11:26 AM
Hi Sandeep
We all were wondering where is the so-called human rights activist and secularist Arundhati Roy is and what is she upto? I happen to come across her article after Mumbai terror attacks, which was as usual filled with the crap of Gujarat Riots, Babri Masjid and Kasmiri Muslims’ plight. It was such a sickening article. I thought of sharing it with all the readers and let them understand her true face. I would also like you to dissect her article and enlighten us, as you have always done with other such articles.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/12/mumbai-arundhati-roy
Jai Hind
16. December 2008 - 5:27 PM
hey BABRI MASJID was a MOSQUE not a temple , and ISLAM was never imposed on anyone if that was the case then u all ppl out there known as hindus and cristians would be in books only and might be wiped off by the MUSLIM EMPERORS who once ruled the whole world but our religion does not accept a forced conversion and it is clear in our HOLY QURAN , there is complete freedom in our religion for every religion on this earth and we dont kill in the name of religion but sure if the war is imposed on us by several means and ppl like posters here support that Shahadat of BABRI MASJID that was in no way controversial it was a very old place and there is no evidence of so called JANAMBHUMI as pressed by RSS and other cowards which u ppl have no courage to hunt down SURE WE WILL DONT WORRY , we are only against these extremists , ASK URSELF
HAVE U SEEN BURNT BODIES OF FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN IN GUJRAT ?
DO U SEE BLOOD SHED IN KASHMIR ?
DO U SEE U.S KILLING INNOCENT IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN?
IN PALESTIN BY ISRAEL ?
NO U DONT BCOZ AMERICA AND ISRAEL is ur FRIEND
U always make ties with all countries working against MUSLIMS AND ISLAM and we are getting this feeling BCOZ
U are making deep relations with ISRAEL ?
SENDING TROOPS to AFGHANISTAN WHY to kill MUSLIMS THERE ?
u dont have any connection then y the hell u are going there , if u dont have courage to defend urself y the hell u r going in other countries against MUSLIM , BE IN UR LIMITS and INDIA will be a nice place to LIVE otherwise it will be converted in to HELL bcoz of ur policies
CLEAN UP UR POLITICIANS everything will b fine
u want some facts on mumbai attacks
10 TERORISTS , 1500 COMMANDOS POLICE ATS ETC ………….. 60 HRS huh…………. LOL
120 SEPARATIST MOVEMENTS only MUSLIMS are BLAMED COL PROHIT SHARMA is a MUSLIM haan
FABRICATED evidence daily and freq changing statements !
within FIRST 2 HRS of ATTACKS conclusion reached PAKISTAN…….
MUSLIMS ON JIHAD drink BEER and GO TO CLUBS KEEP CREDIT CARDS to IDENTIFY them immidiately and with ID’s with no sign of Extremists at all on there body wearing Six Pockets on PICNIC haan
Only terrrorist captured AJmal so called was having a PHOTO SESSION from different angles and other 9 dont have any live photos in action !!
U believe i dont , OPEN UR EYES
DO U KNOW how these org and agencies work they hire local ppl they train them there they wash there ID’s and wash the links by any means even the best MI’s cant investigate even after years in 2 hrs u got conclusion . hey ………..all this locally planned and executed in the name of MUSLIMS
INDIAN NAVY WAS SLEEPING in waters they came by sea they traveled for hours in waters and they left traces everywhere for U DUMBS to get conclusion
USE UR MIND DONT BLAME PAKISTAN THE ONLY SOLUTION FOR U PPL DONT IMPOSE WAR ON US AS THERE WILL B DEATH EVERYWHERE that is not good
SOLUTION:
INVESTIGATE FIRST COME TO THE CONCLUSION ALLOW ALL AGENCIES TO INTERROGATE TERRORIST FBI MI SCOTLAND YARD EVEN ALLOW ISI THEN COME TO CONCLUSION THIS IS THE BETTER WAY TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE IMPROVE TIES BUILD BETTER UNDERSTANDING
OR JUMP TO CONCLUSION BELIEVE WHAT MEDIA SAYS AND COME EYE TO EYE THEN INDIA WILL B TAUGHT IN THE BOOKS OF HISTORY ONLY WE HAVE SO MUCH THERE OF OUR ANCESTORS WE DONT WANT TO LOOSE AND AGAIN I CLOSE WITH ONE QUOTE OF HOLY QURAN
KILLING OF ONE INNOCENT IS KILLING OF WHOLE MANKIND
ZOHAIL WELL WISHER OF BOTH COUNTRIES
16. December 2008 - 7:36 PM
BOY OH BOY!!! If there ever was a Cyber Bloodshed, here it is. I know a lot of Indian muslims who were devastated with the attacks and also heard of a muslim family that lost 7 members of the family. Terror definitely has no religion but am really worried that there is still a miniscule population of the Indian muslims who are pleased it happened.
17. December 2008 - 7:18 PM
to Zohail,
U run to a type, The terrorist Kasab used the AK47 to kill and terrorise,you appear to use your pen (keyboard ?!) to attempt to terrorise. Get it straight- your attempts to terrorise won’t work, we Indians have survived gazni mohammad etc etc who tried to plunder India.I am from India where am glad to say that a large number of Indian Muslims(unfortunately for u) are sick and tired of people like u and kasab’s masters.Remember- Islam teaches tolerance and compassion ,not violence and terrorism,by the way where are u from ??!
17. December 2008 - 8:04 PM
i read that arundati roy’s article on mumbai blasts , after reading that I agree with Arnab Goswami, She is disgusting and worse..,in parts of her sermon, she (unwittingly?) appears to provide the (much needed) justification for their(terrorists) gory deeds. Not surprising though, What else does one expect from dunces like Arundati Roy ?
18. December 2008 - 5:20 PM
hey mr indian read my whole comments i am in no way supporting terror i am showing u the root cause of all this , hundreds of attacks are carried out in these two countries , who knows who is KASAB who created and trained him or he is involved or not in the said attacks or a photo model and if he has done it then for sure he is not a MUSLIM at all name does not mean that someone is muslim DO U KNOW IN PAK ONE IMAM MASJID IN KASHMIR WAS A JEW and he was imam since 10 years and he was teaching about jihad and actually spying for ISRAEL , u never know whats happening see BOTH SIDES of the PHOTO ok i was not TERRORIZING but i was replying to ur MEDIA PROPAGANDA in all of ur news channels about pakistan within 1 hour of attacks started, and some of u mindless people believe what is taught there is too much violence in india in the name of RELIGION as BURN MUSLIMS , BURN CHRISTIANS killing them without any reason u saw all those bastards from RSS and BJP coming on TV and describing their acts of terror how they raped , and burned muslim in gujrat u ppl dont go on roads for that , TERROR IN NO WAY SUPPORTED IN ISLAM, MEANING OF JIHAD IS TO DEFEND AND KILL THE ATTACKERS OF ISLAMIC STATE NOT TO CONQUER PLACES AND FORCIBLY CONVERT PPL IN ISLAM OK ATLEAST READ HISTORY THE CORRECT VERSION NOT THE FORGED ONE , I DONT KNOW WHO IS KASAB ANOTHER PROHIT SHARMA MAY BE ! ASK UR SELF INVESTIGATE FIRST BUDDY OTHERWISE SUFFER GO TO ROOT CAUSES ELIMINATE THEM U ARE ASKING FRUIT FROM FROM A FRUITLESS TREE, AFTER 9/11 ALL THE SYMPATHIES WERE WITH AMERICA NOW PPL HATE THEM AS A NATION BCOZ OF THESE 2 WARS THEY SUPPORTED NOW THEY HELPED MAKING TERRORISTS OTHER THEN ELIMINATING THIS MANIAC THEY NEVER WANT WORLD TO BE SAFE PLACE OTHERWISE WHERE WILL THERE NUKES AND ARMS GO, WHO WILL BUY THEM THEY ARE TRADERS OF DEATH AND PPL WHO SUPPORT THEM ARE ALSO DOING SO AND WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, READ MY WHOLE PREVIOUS COMMENT AND THIS ONE AND THEN ANSWER IF SOMEBODY HAVE COURAGE ALL MY QUESTIONS U PPL ONLY KNOW ONE WORD TERRORIST THATS IT !!! WHERE THEY CAME FROM U DONT WANT TO KNOW , AND THIS IS UR HABIT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS IMMEDIATELY …………..
18. December 2008 - 5:39 PM
@ Zohail
Ur passion is amazing and this is the passion we Indian’s need to face up to people like you. Anyway, you are trying to tell your side of the story but it is getting lost in your writing. Atleast I would like to know what you are really trying to convey. Please get someone who can pen your thoughts accurately and we will carry it forward.
18. December 2008 - 7:43 PM
i am telling u buddy stop blaming Pakistan and convey this message to all at home , strengthen ur self inside and improve ties from neighbors , childish behaviour like throwing paki artists out from the country , cancelling cricket ties, blaming only muslims and pakistan is not the solution this is what ur media is doing and showing creating hatred between religion and society will damage both countries in the long run , and supporting people who bulldoze a WORSHIP PLACE like BABRI MASJID and declare it controversial place is not good , now if u dont understand all this then u should stop writing and start thinking about how stupid u are
18. December 2008 - 10:29 PM
zohail..you seem to be goign nuts, perhaps the misdirected passion in you is proof of where it takes people like you (and Kasab). You’re brain dead, it’s time for you to contact your nearest LeT recruiting centre. Or may be you’re already there.
19. December 2008 - 5:21 PM
when u ppl dont have anything to answer becomes BLANK u keep sayin this shit over and over again NOBODY can help u PPL if U are not ready to help URSELF then GOD also dont help ppl like u MAY ALLAH HELP THOSE LIKE U i can only say that and these LeT is self created by ur govt u wipe them off it is ur responsibilty atleast recognize ur responsibilities …………… complete from my side
19. December 2008 - 11:35 PM
Zohail etc:
If you have time to look at the facts:
Gujarat: 750 muslims dead, 250 Hindus dead
(what would have happened in pak if 56 mulims returning from the Haj were burnt alive by a Hindu mob? No riots? You think? You think a single Hindu would be alive in pak? Not that many are alive today, anyway..)
Kashmir: 350,000 plus HIndus kicked out of their homes and languishing in tents in south of valley.
Orissa: Have you seen the porn against Hindu dieties being circulated by New Life Churh which started the riots?
One Koran abused by a yankee soldier in Gitmo, and Hindu shopkeepers shops are burnt. Such is the price on “Muslim sentiments”. And Hindus are openly killed and no one even mentions that.
Let us see how you high and mighty “muslims” like you fall!
Do not take cover under the whole of Islam, because I know many decent muslims.
Peace is a two way street.
Stop spreading lies.
20. December 2008 - 6:56 PM
To Mr. ASHISH
Hindus living in pakistan freely practicing there religion freely u are actually dis informant like your media, thousands of hindus come every year at gwadar in baluchistan for worship not even a single one is killed they are served and treated well , even Sikh come here at nankana saheb ask them how they are treated here , ppl like u are actually supporting EXTREMISTS infact ur JUSTIFYING THE RIOTS and killing of MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS , MOST OF THEM KILLED IN MUMBAI ATTACKS ARE MUSLIMS DO U KNOW GO AND INVESTIGATE AND GUJRAT AS WELL AND SAMJHOTA EXPRESS also , u never said anything about kashmir how indian gov is killing there how would u justify afghanistan and iraq killing which india supports and actually sending troops there to kill Muslims Why dont u support Palestine against ISRAEL haaan u are helping them occupy there land by supporting them , this all Mumbai thing is MOSSAD operation some support from ur RAW , ur Media is speaking up but they are very few who see the correct side of the picture others are puppet and dummy GO IN STREETS AGAINST ISRAEL SUPPORT FROM UR GOV AND AGAINST KASHMIR ATROCITIES then only muslims will feel like home there otherwise ur all ur Promises about the freedom of Religion and Expression is FAKE thing and MUSLIMS ARE HARRASED, ABUSED they always afraid of there lives and property, anything happens pointed towards muslim either pakistan and islam , FOR UR INFO I WAS BORN IN INDIA RECENTLY SURRENDERED MY CITIZENSHIP OF THIS SHAMEFUL STATE WHERE MUSLIMS HAVE NO FUTURE SEE THE REPORTS of international agencies , MUSLIMS ARE MOST POOR SUFFERING AND UNDER PRIVELEGED CLASS IN INDIA, DONT ARGUE bcoz u cant………. WE DONT BELIEVE IN KILLING OF INNOCENTS NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION THEY BELONG TO AND THIS IS OUR TEACHING …………
20. December 2008 - 9:43 PM
zohail..congrats on your pakistani citizenship mate! Now you’re a citizen of a failed state. By the way, it looks like the LeT is giving you big doses of the nonsense that you go about blabbering on this forum. You want to make a point here- say it with decency and poise rather than shout your lungs out. It just shows your insane you’ve got in that LeT camp of yours.
22. December 2008 - 4:45 PM
Ok Mr. N.Shah
Time will tell WHICH IS A FAILED STATE ……. and i just made my point clear but LeT is on ur mind which is infact a Branch of ur State created and used by INDIA WHY DONT U PRESS UR GOVT TO FINISH OFF KASHMIR ISSUE SO THEY CAN NO MORE USE THIS LeT SLOGAN but NO U WILL NOT bcoz like tension with pak and killing Muslims and dont want to live in peace, infact and this is all u can say about the atrocities . 600 attacks so far in pakistan we have never shouted INDIA IS A TERRORIST STATE dont be childish be mature stop Supporting ur State Terrorism and go to the root cause rather than hiding behind a BUSH (GEORGE W)
22. December 2008 - 9:44 PM
Zohail,
you have solved the minorities problem by eliminating minorities.LeT represents the sick mindset of the sick people of pakistan and the sick religion you are following.
You might pretend that your religion is peaceful,but the truth is in practice your sick army follows a violent perverted killigion.
22. December 2008 - 10:03 PM
I am not a great fan of the Janmabhoomi movement.Nor do i approve what happened in Gujarat.
The Gujarati people who are among the most peaceful in the world and who are fervent indian nationalists and devout hindus were reacting to a 1000 years of humiliation,rapine,plunder,rape,hate and wanton destruction starting from mohammed of ghazni in somnath to mughal atrocities to the evil Jinnah,a gujarati muslim,many bohra,kwoja memon butchers indicted in mumbai 93 blasts to Godhra train burning to IC 814 hijack to atrocities in kalachuk.
The Gujarat incidents and Babri destruction ,unfortunate as they are,pale before the genocide of hindus in pak and bangladesh by porki army butchers.
Modern India would have learnt lessons from the unfortunate incidents and moved on.but for sekkular mullahs and paki mullahs,butchers and barbarians who want to keep the wounds fresh.Zaheer Khan opens the bowling for india.There has been no loss of life in gujarat after 2001.Yousuf Pathan and Munaf from Gujarat play for india.
The mohammedan reaction to babri is incredible given the fact you have destroyed thousands of temples many times over including Ayodhya,Kashi,Mathura,Somnath,Jwalamukhi,Amritsar,Madurai,Srirangam,Hampi,temples in MP,Gujarat,Assam,Rajasthan,rape,plunder,massacre of innocents over the past thousands of years.
Atleast now you barbarians know a little bit of the pain you have inflicted over a thousand years many times over.
You scream and rant when an invaders mosque is razed.It should have been avoided but the wailing,screaming and howling seems to have no proportion.
That is too much to expect from a paki .
22. December 2008 - 10:05 PM
Zohail,
why are you screaming with capital letters
22. December 2008 - 10:09 PM
You claim you are peaceful.The Baloch HATE you.Afghans have contempt for you.You are terror capital of World.You are fiends who are ready to spill innocent blood.Your army is only good at genocide of innocents like in bangladesh and training terrorists
23. December 2008 - 1:04 PM
Mr. Y atleast give ur whole name why the hell u r so afraid !!! atleast have a least amount of courage but NO U ARE ONE OF THE COWARDS WHO ATTACK IN RIOTS AND KEEP THEMSELVES HIDING
U ppl are EXTREMISTS infact One is taking revenge and justifying the gujrat riots and the other one is busy on showing HOW INNOCENT IS THEIR GOVT AND ARMY IS ,and LINKING RELIGION WITH ALL THIS UR OWN CREATED SHIT ………….. SO BYE FOR NOW GO TO HELL ………..we’ll MEET IN THE BATTLE GROUND WHEN INDIA WILL BE WIPED OFF FROM THE FACE OF THIS WORLD WE WILL TEACH U THE LESSON NOW DONT WORRY…………….
23. December 2008 - 4:42 PM
Zohail,
paki,we do not condone riots.Genocide is your speciality.Ooo WAR ….i am shivering in my dhoti.
23. December 2008 - 5:00 PM
u keep on Shivering in Dhoti this is what u can do and Yes cowards like u Justify Riots and take benefit from them u give Birth to RSS Bajrang Dal and other Bastards and say that u are taking revenge for the killings of Mahmood Ghazni which he did 1000 years ago as u said 2 wrongs does not make a Right ……… i cant help criminal thinking bcoz it is based on HINDU TERRORISM may be u r linked with RPOHIT SHARMA AND SADHVI AND BJP ………. we will teach u lesson for sure in delhi dont worry
23. December 2008 - 5:04 PM
u touch our land . we’ll wipe u off for sure !!! which is infact ur destiny………..
23. December 2008 - 6:09 PM
zohail, we’ve touched your land thrice and you couldnt do a darn thing about it. In Kargil, your dear PM made a cowardly run to the US. You guys havent had the guts to come and fight for what you really want for the past two decades and instead you’ve been leaning on hired monkeys to do the dirty job for you AKA the Mujahideen and now you have the audacity to think that your generals are going to make us piss in our pants. Ha! you have wishful thinking.
By the way, please can you stop shouting on the forum.
23. December 2008 - 6:39 PM
thats why u cry again and again for Kargil check the facts hundreds of ur soldiers were dead yes u said correct the cowardly act of our prime minister thats why he is out of power , and we feel proud of our ARMY for how they made ur ARMY cry in KARGIL the GRAVEYARD of ur SOLDIERS U PPL ARE WEAK AT WAR…. WEAK AT PEACE and SURE we have some BURDEN and DEBT to RETURN U PPL and WE WILL RETURN IT WITH INTEREST write in ur books ……and yes i dont feel like wasting my time with MINDLESS PEOPLE LIKE U AND MR. Y………bye from me we’ll meet in Delhi if u have COURAGE TO ATTACK…………..
23. December 2008 - 8:15 PM
z,
you dont seem to be a bad guy.I think you believe in a relatively decent strain of Islam.I dont want to offend your faith.I respect it.How one wishes the Paki army butchers were also like you.
It is monstrous to take revenge on Indian muslims today for the atrocities of mahmud of ghazni.But the problem is this butchering is continuing through Aurangzeb to Jinnah to genocide in Bangladesh to Kasav.I already said that Babri and Gujarat were not right but they pale before the atrocities of muslims.There has been no further incident in Gujarat.Munaf,Irfan,Yousuf and Zaheer all of whom are from Gujarat play for india.We would have learnt the lessons and moved on but your butchers have taken revenge by spilling innocent blood with trillion bomb blasts.
The monotheism of Pak army is evil,devious,terrorist.Your version is relatively decent.I pity you.You do not know what religion is.You cant help it given the circumstances.
24. December 2008 - 1:43 PM
Mr. Y actually u only see one side of picture what u r fed thru media and Govt. pls have courage to inquire ur self find truth go for it , dont wait for false statements come to u, thru these malafide means and ARMIES ALWAYS PLAY GAMES THIS IS THEIR WAY OF WAR BUT ITS URS AND MY RESPONSIBILITY TO ONLY SPREAD THE TRUTH AND STOP HATRED , instead of justifying the massacre or genocide it is people who press Govt’s to go on WAR and this is exactly what ppl in india are doing as we see on media this is the first time we have seen such response of war from ppl of india which is not good , we realize that u ppl are going thru a bad situation but it does not mean that u prey for the disaster and WAR , ACCUSE ppl and Religion ,hate the whole Nation or Followers bcoz of some miscreants and misguided ppl , u should realize that we PPL are the victims of Terrorism in both countries , ARMIES always try to create TENSIONS bcoz it is there way of doing things , HOW they will get 70% of the whole budget of the country if Everythin is right 100% sometimes they dont like Peace , BUT THIS BLAME GAME should be over, it was the peace process stopper attack and also Election stunt in ur side i dont know what type of forces are behind that but i am sure it is not like that what it seems like for that i am 100 % sure. EXTREMISM should be ended in both Religions this is our Duty and if we keep on blaming each other then only we will fulfill the Aims of Terrorists whoever they are ………… i hope u understand my point …… Peace is the msg what we give u right now getting excited will take u nowhere……….. just sit and watch these IBN7 CNN STAR NEWS …see what they are showing according to their own agenda and how they are showing …..and what message they r spreading see from different perspective now ………
24. December 2008 - 1:53 PM
IF U HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT ISLAM PLS GO AND READ WITH TRANSLATION ABOUT JIHAD AND OTHER THINGS CLEAR UR DOUBTS …
1. Talk about Similarities among religions Not Differences …. this is what we are taught in Islam …
2.Do not Attack innocents and Women and Children even in the state of War this is what we are Taught …if some of the Emperors or Conquerors did it in past Islam did not Endorse it nor they created Islam.
3. Always ask for Dialogue b4 going for War.
4. Dont attack unless they attack u.
5. Find the Truth b4 sayin Something. Dont believe unless u see or u get strong witness.
It is not written anywhere that kill ppl without any reason……. Pls try to find the truth unless it is too late……..
24. December 2008 - 6:59 PM
zohail, you base your arguments on the basis of a reaction of a single incident. What you see in India is pent up anger against the constant butchering of Indians for the past 15 years. You blame us for our twisted and concocted views on Islam, if that were the case, there would have been bloodshed across India by now after what happened in Mumbai- still nothing. It is quite ironic that you blame us for being war and Pak obsessed in these times, but the fact of the matter is that Pak’s obsession of looking at things from an India-centric prism right from its inception have made things to come to such a pass. Had we been the warmongering nation that you think us to be, the Indus Water Treaty wouldnt stand three wars. We could parch Pakistan but obviously we didnt and still havent. That the ISI and the Army are string pullers in Pakistan isnt a revelation- we know and you know it all too well. As a Pakistani citizen, you have the right demand that it be accountable to the State, obviously, things have gone awfully wrong in that area. However, we now refuse to pay the price for that, we’ve done it for far too long. It is clearly your business now, not our problem. By the way, I’m glad you now know how it feels to be in India shoes, i.e. to be constantly bludgeoned by a band of people who are essentially brain dead.
26. December 2008 - 1:23 PM
One thing for ur abstaining from massacre thru out india bcoz the attack is totally blamed on ISI and Pakistan just include some Muslims from India in that list of Ten terrorists or there Bosses just include some names and then see what will happen in India there will blood shed of Muslims ,
for ur knowledge there is no INDUS WATER TREATY WORKING it is just on papers india has been cutting the supply of water since 8 months and we are facing shortage of power and agriculture is also going thru a bad period. for Which pakistan is shouting since 6 months see the media international one dont rely on just indian media who is quite deceptive and sometime very one sided, i can only pray for the well being of both and just like to nake my point that WAR IS NOT A SOLUTION it can only bring disaster and by the way no one in this World can parch Pakistan and infact have no courage to do so and TRY for that will be destructive …………Peace is the Word for Now ………
26. December 2008 - 1:25 PM
ARMIES ARE COMING FACE TO FACE NOW time is running short it is the time for Both nations to cry for Peace or it will too late
26. December 2008 - 2:50 PM
I donno if its only me or all other readers can see the anguish and fear in Zohail’s comments about a possible India-Pakistan war.Both countries have nukes, and inspite of an almost bankrupt economy, Pakistan would be able to sustain a conventional war for about 3 weeks.So, why the fear now? Why the increasingly shrill appeals to India and Indians to show restraint?I don’t understand.Some thing has clearly changed.Pakistan seems to be a failed state, and it is possible that a war, even a limited war, especially on the Sind border, may actually result in a balkanised Pakistan.Hmm..interesting times ahead..if war is a must, then lets ensure that this is the last India-Pakistan war, and more importantlly, lets do war to forge peace again.
26. December 2008 - 4:54 PM
Mr. Kumar your comments are the most Hopeless one’s which i expect from General Public of India if ur are one of them…… u r praying for war and taking my urge for PEACE as a weakness of Pakistan .pls see my last 2 lines of my previous post and my all posts. U PPL ARE IN HEAVEN OF IDIOTS dont see the figures only need 7 minutes to finish off INDIA thrice BUT WE ARE NOT HERE FOR THIS, war is a war i am not a Military Chief of Army i am one of the general public like many of u , I hope that majority in india does not support Mr. Kumar’s statement if this is the case then pls write something on paper and Bury it deep in the Ground So people can know in future that once upon a time there was a State named India……….. and u used the correct word LETS DO WAR TO ‘FORGE ‘ peace again what India is doing since 60 years i hope it Change……….
26. December 2008 - 7:07 PM
zohail, you’ve gone insane mate. You’re beating yourself into war obsession. Your comments smack of insecurity and ignorance. You land up on this forum everyday and start to clamour and squeal. You’ve got to take a chill pill. India will do whatever it needs to, just sit back and relax and see how it all unfolds.
26. December 2008 - 7:23 PM
Ok then lets face the future ………… India cant do anything, except warnings , nothin will unfold N.Shah except Disgrace for India if War breaks it will FINISH OFF INDIA’S PASSION TO BECOME REGION’S POLICE MAN with no proofs or evidence u cant do anything even on Diplomatic grounds and war time will tell who’s the beneficiary …….. bye
26. December 2008 - 7:25 PM
GOD DO NOT HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT READY TO HELP THEMSELVES
26. December 2008 - 8:25 PM
this is the original story
see this ur media reporting
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/nariman-house-story
http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/2008/12/04/the-nariman-house-story-must-read.html
26. December 2008 - 9:06 PM
I have gone through Mr. Zohail’s comments with amused interest (if little irritation).
The indoctrination of hatred towards non-Muslims shows up pretty clearly.
If Pakistan is not weakened now, India may lose this chance.
Expect more of our blood to be spilt by these people.
27. December 2008 - 1:24 AM
Mr Zohail, I have experienced your lot in the streets of Oslo, Norway. I have experienced how two generations of Pakis in Norway fare worse in schools than any Indian fresh of the plane. I have experienced how our politicians lie and cover up the statistics of your misdeeds. I have experienced (on the body) how 5 of your ppl attacked me at night because I was “walking with a Paki girl” (according to them, but my wife is Indian).
In my eyes, you are lucky that India considers you a mere political nuisance rather than a significant threat. The Indian army wold wipe the floor with your crackest trops at any moment and there won’t be a USA to save you this time. Be blessed that your country is still breathing, despite being in the ICU, intubated, having a feeding tube and with little or no brain activity. Please do yourself a favor and be silent, because every time idiots like you open your mouth you will awaken 10 more extremists. Eventually too many extremeists will pressure the Indian manstream and your days will be numbered even if you WELD the caps-lock button in-place. So just be quite, OK? The most iliterate in India has intellectual superiority to your blind-sighted fanatism.
To all Indians reading this: You are a great nation, a great people and have so many smart people around that it takes alot to sway you any way. I have met so many briliant Indian docs, nurses, PT’s, engineers and businessmen that there is no doubt in my mind that India wil even dwarf China 20 yars from now. I thank God every day for meeting my lovely, smart, wise and tough Indian wife. If you guys ever will need anything we will be there in a heartbeat and I know tens of thousands in the same situation.
28. December 2008 - 5:36 PM
@Ariel,
Everytime I loose faith in future for India, some foreigner comes and instills it back eg., Brannon Parker, David Frawley, Koenraad Elst, Stephen Knapp, Francois Gautier and now you!
Hoo boy! and then Indian politicians and media and the brainless intellectuals go back and destroys all hope!
I am not too concerned abou the likes of Zohail here. At least we know him for what he is. Trouble is with the billion people who inhabit India. Don’t know how many will stand up to fight for principles.
And those few who might, stand every chance of getting killed due to a hit fom the back more than from the front.
29. December 2008 - 1:17 PM
Mr. Ariel i dont feel like wasting my words on useless people like u bcoz u ppl are the main Creators and Bosses of these Terrorists we all are facing so u dont have any right to speak up here go in ur Hole where u belong to…….
The idiotic baloon of courage has been blasted by ur Govt. when Pakistan comes forward with a gun India is now playing on the Back foot NOW THEY ARE CRYING NO WAR pls only ask for something when u need it otherwise u will be billed for that ……….
Now they are talking about peace what Pakistan was asking b4 but u ppl always take demand for peace as weakness of us ………. first decide what do u need PEACE OR WAR…….
and Idiot i think is not a correct word for Mr. Ariel and he is not describing what he was doin when Pakis beat him bcoz he feel shame for that…….. u ppl will get this treatment when u follow the concept of Divide and Rule this was the main problem which u ppl created …….. First create Talibans now kill them , Then shouted for WMD’s in Iraq now admitted ur mistake and got stuck……. now u r shouting for Iran and creating tensions in india and Pakistan bcoz u dont want us to be in Peace. actually u ppl are in ICU not us……….. i htink enuff dose i have more but i dont want to waste it on Dying Patient
bye
Bye for now
30. December 2008 - 5:00 AM
Hi Zohail, I will let the Mr be for this time.
All I need to tell you is that 5 of your buddies kicked me in the back so I fell, then kicked me in the head and I later woke up in the ER. The (Indian) resident doctor (no surprise) found a bleed in my head, but unfortunately for you they got me fixed up and I am therefore able to type this to you today.
What did I do? I didn’t give up a cab I had been waiting for to these guys as they came running. Didn’t say anything except, this is mine and I called for it. I guess I should yield to the masterfolk and be a good Dhimmi, right?!
Who was driving the cab? A Paki. The Punjabi-Paki yelled something to him as he opened the door to the front passenger seat. Then he told me to get lost and let them take the cab. I am fortunate that I didn’t succumb to more severe injuries. To this day I am not sure why these parasites upon our society, that absolutely none has any like for, didn’t kill me right there, but I can only attribute it to my wife standing right there and letting them know that they would have to do it over her dead body. Maybe they saw her Kara and realized that she was serious, I don’t know.
I just know that to treat you Pakis with anything but the utter disdain and watchfulness is a bigger mistake than even assuming that there is any place for me in their world. You guys are destroying our country. Little Norway is crippled by you parasites and our native population is heading the same way as the Hindu Pandits in the Kashmiri valley, just 30 years behind in timeline.
So listen up Sohail, you pathetic P. O. Sh.!!!!! I would lay down my life for the nation of India, if it would keep her away from vermin like you. Not by strapping bombs to myself and murdering innocent people, but by dedicating my time and future to helping my common friends. It is absolutely beyond any doubts that my kids will be born in India and make sure the nation of India will not sail into the muslim abyss like Europe currently is. You know I am right sohail, you know this is a fight you ilks cannot win. Even if you strap a bomb on yourself and blow me up there are countless of people like me that will make India win this unequal fight on walk-over. You have been warned. I wouldn’t even spit upon you if I saw you, but you can count on my blessings, resources and infinite committment to this cause and I won’t squander it by blowing myself up. Also, don’t try detracting this debate with bringing in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel or whatever else bogus you pull in here. This is ABOUT INDIA, OK?! I wouldn’t lift a finger to stop twpo muslims from killing each other and as far I am concerned Saddam could just have carried on. My beef with you guys goes WAY beyond the 5 thugs beating me up. If you wanna kill Americans go ahead and try, I bet you would prefer their prisons and rights tenfold over the treatment you would ge tby the black cats, say no more.
A long post and I won’t bore with much more to the pig nuisance on the west side.
So to my endeared Indian friends. I understand your concerns of apathy, but I also know there is more passion in India, more thinking and MUCH MORE culture and civilization than you find most other places. You want “apathy”? Go to Europe of today. Go to LONDON! Talk about apathy there. All India needs is a strong leader. A new Shivaji, a new Nanak or a New Ashoka. This is not something that can be legislated, but will come when the time is right. Please my friends, have some faith, I cannot say enough how much I have believe in your people. I cannot say enough how astonished I am at your minds, from the waiter at Mayur in Manali, the 16-year old medical school genius that beat everybody in tennis here in Norway while he aced all his exaams, to the 75 year old Yogi that has arteries like a newborn. I read at least 5 books a month about India and it’s history, I try to gobble up whatever I can, because I am still learning from a scratch. My wife’s family is obviously of great help as well, but I got to learn it all by myself at the end. I am working on learning Hindi and Punjabi, but will have to wait for real traction when I spend more time there again.
When you got your strong leader that has the gentle touch of a healer, the passion the Gurus and the brilliance of Shivaji there are nobody in the world that can stop India. You have a collossal democracy with a booming economy and a military might that is more underestimated than the Finnish army in WW2. When you got that strong leader, my family will already have been there for a good while, because be sure there are many of us that is watching what is going on.
*Strong leaders don’t get killed if they got strong people at their side.
*Strong ideas don’t falter due to circumstantial apathy.
*corrupt leaders and faltering intellectuals don’t make history.
*Karma and fate are interlinked and one begots the other.
*Traitorous journalists only thrive when there is no dangers around and everybody puts up with them.
*The gifts of knowledge, reason and tolerance are not bestowed upon a country, but inherent in it’s culture.
Be brave, bright and optimists my friends, dare I say:
JAI MATA DI.
-Ariel-
31. December 2008 - 2:09 PM
All I need to tell you is that 5 of your buddies kicked me in the back so I fell, then kicked me in the head and I later woke up in the ER. The (Indian) resident doctor (no surprise) found a bleed in my head, but unfortunately for you they got me fixed up and I am therefore able to type this to you today.
What did I do? I didn’t give up a cab I had been waiting for to these guys as they came running. Didn’t say anything except, this is mine and I called for it????? so simple
AND FOR THAT U HATE ALL MUSLIMS AND PAKIS WHAT A THINKING U HAVE
and do not defend those BAS**** Americans it seems u are one of them ur statement clearly shows that U R TRYING TO CREATE HATRED and Racism is on ur Mind which i hate u ppl for u are supporting Indians bcoz right now u are getting ur job done from them and u hate Pakis bcoz they are blowing ur A** EVERYWHERE IN iraq afghanistan and Pakistan and where u are, main aim of u ppl is just spread hatred among ppl thats it u dont bother killing innocents to fulfill ur sick aims and u wait for ur destiny to be un folded
this is a warning u better stop spreading this S*** among ppl and clean up this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan and stop supporting Killings by Israel otherwise u will be treated for the every crime u support dont complain for this treatment bcoz ur brothers are doing much more in other places
Suggestion which do not go inside ur head as it is filled of Pig Meat i know, everythin will be alright if u follow
31. December 2008 - 2:12 PM
as the matter of FACT i am not PAKI for ur knowlege Ariel
31. December 2008 - 2:57 PM
I would request moderator to block zohail. He has gone insane.
He is just shouting without saying anything meanigful.
31. December 2008 - 3:46 PM
yes dhramvir bcoz u ppl do not want to hear Truth then dont argue with me ,,and block oh u dream a lot……………….
31. December 2008 - 10:35 PM
Zohail,
You don’t understand truth and neither basic logic. and your funny comment that mohammed in mentioned in bhagawat geeta ( or other hindu scripture) somewhere shows that you are clearly brinwashed by zakir naik.
Dude your mind is damanged beyond repair. Even allah cannot help you now
1. January 2009 - 1:52 PM
SO WHY DONT U SEE ur scriptures in detail and tell me Zakir naik also gives references to ur scriptures just saying that i am brainwashed by someone is not helping here , ok
Just say Black is Black and white is white , DONT support lies and false statements and Massacre whether it is Hindu Muslim or Christian stand for everybody’s rights thats what i want to make clear
1. January 2009 - 9:34 PM
Zohial,
using zakir naiks logic I can prove that vedas has been mentioned in quran as well and hence you should follow vedas and do idol worship as well . Here is my logic zakir naik style ” veda is derived from root word vid which means knowledge” In quran word knowledge is used multiple times which is basically reference to vedas. So you see quran also places vedas on higher authority as they are mentioned in quran. Since vedas do not condemn idol worship directly and hence support it, so does the quran. so according to this advice of quran muslims should also worship idols. The sura which is mentioned in quran where it says that you should not worship idols was bascially given by mohammad when he was under the influence of satan.
See it is not difficult to be logical zakir naik style……
2. January 2009 - 3:19 PM
Hey u r not even following ur own Holy Book this is not the way to prove something as u said about this veda Just see concept of God in ur Religion and see if it allows u to Worship Idol , which is ur One Holy Book infact i will study that for sure tell me Mr. Dharamvir , dont get angry if i am presnting my thoughts or Religion everybody have right to follow his religion as u have i am not proving anything wrong in ur scriptures i am just saying that atleast follow ur books when it says that GOD IS ONE AND HE IS THE ONLY CREATOR AND HE DOES NOT HAVE ANY FACE HE IS NOT HUMAN NO ONE HAS CREATED HIM HE HAS CREATED EVERYTHING whats wrong in it u have any objection in it Mr. Dharamvir pls answer does this defination allow u Idol Worshipping and if u r still not agreed with me then i am not imposing on u my logic u have the right to accept or reject……….. dont give examples in Religion see only the Genuine and Original and un disputed version of Holy Books no matter which religion they belong to
nice talking to u
2. January 2009 - 4:07 PM
Zohial,
If you really want to understand what is there is vedas then leave aside the logics of zakir naik. Let me tell you the interpretation of zakir naik is not correct ( in fact they are foolish). Nowhere in vedas it is said what you should do and what you shouldn’t. It is not a guide book like Quran where it specifies what is legal and what is illegal in clear terms. In simplified manner Vedas are prayers to god. and these prayers were discovered and complied by humans. Not like Islam where god actively comes and gives instructions to humans about do’s and don’ts. concept of god in Hinduism is completely different from that in Islam. It might be difficult for you to understand the concept of god is Hinduism because of your Islamic background. if you really want to understand Vedas forget you are Muslim and knows anything called Allah and his commandments.
One more thing Hinduism is not a religion is strict sense . There are at least six major school of philosophies which are not at war with themselves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_philosophy). Though there are some philosophical disputes among them,
but none of that dispute is worldly. sankhya philosophy which was promoted/given by sage kapila was atheistic is nature in starting. which never believed in force called god. It believe in purush ( human in higher consciousness)
and prakriti ( nature in crude translation). This philosophy later turned to be theists. surprise for you you can be a Hindu without believing in god itself.
I know things are going beyond your understanding, But if you are really serious to understand give yourself some time and read from original source, rather that few words pointed by zakir naik.
If you need help write back to me.
Note : Mohammed is never mentioned in Geeta and veda for that matter. Go to original source and verify by yourself.
2. January 2009 - 4:20 PM
Zohial
zohail said :”God in ur Religion and see if it allows u to Worship Idol ”
Yes my religion allows idol worship. Tell me where it says that idol worship is haram.
zohail said :”GOD IS ONE AND HE IS THE ONLY CREATOR AND HE DOES NOT HAVE ANY FACE HE IS NOT HUMAN NO ONE HAS CREATED HIM HE HAS CREATED EVERYTHING ”
How does this statment shows that idol worship is not allowed.or it is wrong.
Zohail my friend read some philosophy, There is a big world outside quran. This is a sincere advice.
2. January 2009 - 8:55 PM
If one moderate can drown out 1000 kufr with so much lungpower and pakilogic and injured innocence and we 1000 kufrs are exhibiting our dhimmitude by arguing with you,it is NO WONDER that your kasavs,porki army butchers and terrorists who have support of Saudi Arabia,China,a section of US State Dept feel so confident of raping india by taqqiya,hudubaiyya and jihad terrorism.