Weak Before Bullies
Friday, 9. January 2009 - 12:24 PM
After a long stint of academic silence, the Lamb has emerged with an indirect roar against Israel, shaming India again.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh voiced India’s strong condemnation of the Israeli strikes in Gaza and expressed the hope that international community will get together to restore peace and normalcy in the region…”It is our hope that the international community will come together to restore peace and normalcy”… He also declared India’s “unstinted and unwavering support to the just cause of Palestinians”.
Needless to say, this is a continuation of Nehru’s chickenhearted foreign policy, which believed in siding with the worst regimes and ideologies and railing against democratic and open societies. No other world leader “regretted the demise of Marshall Stalin” as much as Nehru did. Thus, the Stalinist USSR and the Islamic tyrannies of the Middle East were dear to Nehru. Manmohan Singh merely represents the non-dynastic continuation of this immoral policy.
Taken to its logical conclusion, this will mean that India has no moral right to complain against Pakistan’s regular incursions on the Indian soil because this is what the rogue outift Hamas has been doing to Israel. Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization in the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, Israel, and UK. It is banned in Jordan! However, India’s spinelessness under the Headless Wonder a.k.a Puppet Minister, has touched record levels of cowardice. India’s advanced stage of cravenness is evident from the fact that Manmohan Singh hasn’t taken the name of Hamas.
Do we interpret “unstinted and unwavering support to the just cause of Palestinians” to mean steadfast support to all brands of terror, illegal incursions, manslaughter, and wanton destruction of a peaceable nation? In the madness that is the Middle East, Israel distinguishes itself as a perverse exception because it doesn’t abide by the brute, jungle laws that its neighbours adhere to. Yet, the head of the Indian democracy has tears in his eyes for the dead terrorists and not even a note of sympathy for the innocent Israelis murdered at their hands.
I see no difference between our Puppet Minister and the Mullahs that united worldwide in baying for the blood of Israel. Oh, but the Lok Sabha elections are nearby….
Tags: Gaza, Hamas, Headless Wonder, Indian Politics, Islam Watch, Israel, Manmohan Singh, Puppet Minister, Shame on Indian Foreign Policy
9. January 2009 - 1:08 PM
The chicken puppet minister is saying this less than two months after the Mumbai attacks, in which Israeli citizens were killed.
Its not just chickenhearted, its highly insensitive (to both Indians and Israelis) and a very dumb thing to do !!
I sometimes wish I were not living in this country when I see this puppet in the news…. The Mumbai attacks did not shame me as much as the antics of Madame Sonia, Puppet Minister, and deshmukhs and patils after the attacks.
9. January 2009 - 5:47 PM
Keep supporting Israel and USA for killing Muslims and turn ur country into Living Hell !!!! thats not wise do not buy hatred of Muslims from all over the world by paying a tribute to Israel Barbarians of Modern Era……….. why u support forced occupation so much Open ur eyes , dont buy ur dreams at this cost always be un-biased and by the way comments of Mr. Manmohan doesnt make any difference at all bcoz under the table India support all the attrocities by Israel in Palestine bcoz u get War equipment and support from them but this is a high price u r paying think about it !!!!! Palestine does not only consist of Hamas there are also innocent women and children which u forgot to mention in ur post ur are turning ur head from the Facts and Photos and figures u r talking about un known israelis dead in the conflict just compare the number of Casualties of Palestine ppl and Israel 500: 10 and you are supporting the Israel it is beyond my thinking that you learned ppl like sandeep do that
9. January 2009 - 6:05 PM
Pls always stand for Truth , only those PPl flourish who support Truth based on Facts, do not feed these so called islamic Terrorists or do not help them in directly to create hatred among religions bcoz this supports them in directly and they use this stuff to create hatred among muslims and other Religion……. ur post should not reflect Hindutva Thoughts or not look biased…………
9. January 2009 - 6:09 PM
“Yet, the head of the Indian democracy has tears in his eyes for the dead terrorists and not even a note of sympathy for the innocent Israelis murdered at their hands”
these 500 killed and 1000′s injured are all Hamas Terrorists are u 100 % sure ……………. No think b4 u right something …..infants . children women all are terrorists u have proofs for that ………….. Act Responsibly not blindly
9. January 2009 - 6:53 PM
“ur post should not reflect Hindutva Thoughts” – There’s not an iota of evil or falsehood in Hindutva. It isn’t macabre that you make it out to be, however, if you believe the pseudosecular Indian media then that’s a different story.
If your heart goes to the women and children of Palestine, may be you should spare a thought for innocents in India and in Israel as well.
9. January 2009 - 7:24 PM
Yes sure my heart also feel the same for the massacre wherever it exists i am not the supporter of Hitler killing innocent Jews and also do not support Indian Muslim Mobs killing innocent Hindus or Christians this is not Allowed in Islam. but ppl should also think the same dont let any one between you and me use Religion for massacre and Hatred this is wrong……….. what do u think about the post dont u think it is biased and not about mass but minority
9. January 2009 - 7:53 PM
hello brother zohail i am frm india i was read ur longthy messages. but brother u ppl frm pakistan shud think how bad u r affecting good names of indian muslims. see urself so much hatred for india and all ur messages only here for giving so much hatred no good point. why brother. why u ppl in pakistan have textbook say hindus evil jihad good. it was in indian papers. even u say india was in pakistan earlier what this funny tamasha brother. because of u world think all muslim r fanatic and foolish but inshallah we indian muslim show that is not true only pakistani muslim are fanatic.
brother pls change the hatred in ur heart for india for indian ppl and even hindu. u send terrorist that kill forty muslims also.
see brother only two days ago u were heckling ppl here that indian are gay indian r showing impotency bcoz u ppl killed so many in bombay and it was success for u killing so many ppl. now u say about isreal on palestine “atrocity atrocity” what a impotency brother. see hatred is making u say these foolish things calling indian impotent when u terrorist kill but shouting atrocity when somebody kill u terrorists. so world is laughing at all muslims because of u pakistani ppl brother who say different funny thing at different time brother.
anyway take care and b happy and so many times u said u will not come here again pls do not come again as u r funny and all ppl will think indian msulims also funny bcoz of u brother.
9. January 2009 - 8:44 PM
If I remember correctly zohial find this blog full of us rabid hindu fundamentalist and vowed never to come back on this blog again…
Zohial my dear friend you are wasting your time and energy. People on this form knows history and philosophy of islam too well to be brianwashed..
Try some islamic site they may shed few tears by your narrations…
10. January 2009 - 12:04 AM
Zohail, Jordan and Egypt are Islamic countries, and even they are not supporting Hamas.
10. January 2009 - 9:02 AM
Personally I am happy that israel is killing so many of the Ummah
The ummah is an octopus with many tentacles worldwide
and even if our vote seeking UPA will not take action against
local tentacles, the fact that israel is killing thousands and maiming tens of thousands is giving great pain to the islamic octopus
10. January 2009 - 11:37 AM
“Keep supporting Israel and USA for killing Muslims and turn ur country into Living Hell ”
My dear Zohail, you are right, muslims dont’t care about the laws of the land they are living in, they will fight their own country men if they do not support the muslims living thousands of miles away. Muslims are loyal only to islam not to their motherland….. this is what they are tought by Islam.
10. January 2009 - 1:37 PM
“Personally I am happy that israel is killing so many of the Ummah”
Mr. G Subramanium SHAME ON U AND UR THOUGHTS who is happy on killing of innocents sure u will get same like this then u will know what pain is !!
I am not here to support HAMAS i am here to support innocents killed in the conflict, and u ppl are expressing ur views of Hatred this show how Extremist , Fundamentalists u are,
dont point ur finger on Mullahs bcoz ur thoughts are uglier then these so called mullahs and u are not innocent if u keep these type of thoughts and if u dont condemn this type of ppl as Subramaniam ur destiny depends on how many ppl u have like this in ur society and how u treat them First before going out for others !!
10. January 2009 - 1:42 PM
If u ppl support all this then the True TERRORISTS are u ppl!!! who support Terror by Israel against Innocents bcoz ur Eyes only shed Tears for Hindus and this is called Extremism !! right thats the difference between u and me!!!
10. January 2009 - 2:23 PM
G. Subramanium ! i am curious that u are Human or something else
10. January 2009 - 3:16 PM
All muslims have two faces as elephants have 2 type of teeth, one for display and another for eating. When they are on receiving end they talk of innocent people being killed, schools being targeted etc, but once they are power, they take little time to eliminate non muslims from the territory.(egs hindus wiped out from pak in last 60 yrs, population of hindus have decreased from 25% to 7 % in bangladesh, 500K hindus have been flushed out from kashmir)
Irony is that once they have eliminated non-belivers they find enimies within themselves. Then they start fighting with each other. As figures show that in last year about 1800 terror attacks were carried out by Islamists and around 17000 people were killed from which more than 90% attacks and casualties occured in Islamic countries.
Zohail ! I am wating for your justification, which I am sure you would be ready with !
10. January 2009 - 4:53 PM
Zohail moslem,
Have you heard of Black September in the history of palestine.When paki troops massacred palestinians in Jordan.Muslims are bullies and cowards.Excellent terrorist material.Saudis and pakis kiss american asses.Jordanians,kuwaitis,saudis have done nothing for palestinians.
Indians have consistently supported palestine unlike pakis.We respect their position.
You pakis have driven hindus from rawalpindi and West Punjab and Sindh and East Bengal and kashmir while breeding like PIGS in India and killing hindus in bomb blasts.It is an insult to a pig to compare it to a paki.
10. January 2009 - 5:41 PM
might be off topic but never the less @ZOHAIL or wateva…i have been reading ur comments for quite some time now and if I’ve got the drift right i hope the day doesn’t come when u start openly expressing your sympathies towards the dastardly acts of the bozos who commit such heinous atrocities thinking 72(?) sexy virgins (6 yr olds???) await them at the other end of the tunnel…
when its your community at receiving end you talk sense,so to speak, but when its the other way around there is a totally new perspective put forth…there can be no peace/sense, as close to it as possible, achieved if the foundations are flawed or lack a holistic view.
it is a bounden duty of everyone to examine critically and in an unbiased manner what one is following…it is to be realized that religion/holy books/what say you are just a means to achieve the end/goal and nothing more…it irks the sentiments…yes sure but that desnt mean we need to acquiesce and blindly follow every thing said in it or by someone else on its behalf….there are a few people out there kind enough to “re-educate” us, if i may say so, and get us out of the maya created by the “gomukhavyaghra” who have been ruling, literally and figuratively,india for quite sometime.
if i remember correctly u sad something about the “Upper class Brahmans” some where which is a very typical ecample of how people have swallowed the regurgitated concoctions of the aaforementioned nitwits…yes tere was a time when Brahmanas were powerful…but in a different sense; KNOWLEDE was the zeitgeist of that era and kings upon kings used to bow humbly to these venerable rishis…not powerful in the sense that they created fear in the hearts of the “lesser mortals” or they had a favourable disposition towards violence to meet the ends which was (is?) characteristic of a certain community….
i humbly tank sandeep et.al for the efforts in creating/fostering the new “indian renaissance”…
before i sign off i would like to quote a small incident…here i am on the couch on jan 8th reading the paper..the 2nd page has a story about the “celbration” of watever it is…the pic shows countless youths in a preocession in richmond town beating themselves and bleeding their guts out and the caption below reads : MUSLIMS CALL FOR PEACE….i mean i just don get it….
10. January 2009 - 7:01 PM
No hindus have been driven ur reports are false or fabricated u dont have evidence for that come here and ask hindus urself in karachi lahore where ever u want this is all a false propaganda driven out by mindless ppl there
paki’s have no role in so called black september
10. January 2009 - 7:03 PM
and i know how India support Palestinians by shaking hands with Israel under the table to get benefits from them military and war equipment , but let me tell u if u buy equipment of the whole world and all war stuff even after that One thing needed is Courage in which u lack ……….. Double game is not good
10. January 2009 - 7:06 PM
Pig is ur Friend not ours so there is no need to compare it with Humans ok ………u know what i mean
10. January 2009 - 7:22 PM
Zohail muhammadan,
Punjab and sindh and bengal and kashmir were inhabited by hindus from time immemorial.You MOHAMMEDAN pakis drove us out after 1947 while muslims are breeding like *.. in india.
What about paki pigs massacring palestininians in jordan.
We have sympathy for the palestine cause.We have sympathy for iraqis.We will wipe out vile paki fauji pigs from the face of Mother Earth.Wait and see.Already your fauji pigs have fled from pakthoonistan.
11. January 2009 - 1:29 AM
I believe that we must maintain certain decorum in the debate we do through comments. So it would be better if we stop swearing at anyone and defeat him/her through cool headed arguments.
It seems that increasingly that the level of debate is going down on this blog and turning into a fight of slangs.
I personally believe that it is time now that Bharat follows a strong foreign and security policy like Israel. Also, this clearly exposes USA’s self serving and two-faced foreign policy on world peace and terrorism. It hasn’t issued a single statement on the unilateral action by Israel but when it comes to Bharat-Pak, they make sure that we don’t take military action against Pakistan and hence issues repeated statements so that it can undermine the Bharat’s right of self defense.
Jai Hind
11. January 2009 - 6:33 AM
Zohail, I am actually a reciprocalist against the 1400 year
history of islamic crimes
I actually feel the Palestinians must be moved to islamic countries
to fill the vacuum left by fleeing kafirs since 1947
this would include xtians fleeing middle east and hindus and sikhs and buddhists fleeing pakistan and bangladesh
The gaza muslims look fat and overfed and middle class
The rich saudis must invite them in as mujahirs
11. January 2009 - 10:22 AM
@ G Subramaniam
How can you possibly justify supporting Israeli action against innocent civilians in Gaza by using 1400 years of Islamic crime? Have you even seen or read about the way of life of the people in Gaza? Its shocking and heart rending. People like you should be forced to spend some time in such an environment to understand it firsthand.
11. January 2009 - 7:04 PM
Rajeev Mohata says above -
“It seems that increasingly that the level of debate is going down on this blog and turning into a fight of slangs.”
I tend to agree.
Sandeep,
There is a point in taking views divergent from yours.
But there is no point in tolerating cr*p.
The character Zohail is dirtying the blog here with inconsiderate comments.
Recommend you welcome only people who offer considered thoughts
12. January 2009 - 6:59 AM
Zohail: Dont tell us we lack courage. Pakis are the ones that lack courage and come to our country illegally and kill people. If you dont know what courage is, stop using that term. courage is fighting face to face. Terrorists are the greatest cowards. If you wanna fight, fight like a man. Ask you want a fight and see where your country ends up. there is no point in replying to your comments, as long as you approve and justify the acts of terrorists and look up to them as people with great courage. Adios.
12. January 2009 - 11:45 AM
“No hindus have been driven ur reports are false or fabricated u dont have evidence for that ”
Which proof you are asking about dear Zohail !! Kindly refer to your country’s census data, but I am afraid you will not believe that too, because u ppl only believe in those proof which are pro islam and u discard all other authentic proofs which are anti islam. Recent proof war over Mumbai attack is an example.
12. January 2009 - 12:02 PM
Dear Zohail!! what about 500k kashmiri pundits flushed away from J & K and decrease in population of hindus in bangladesh
12. January 2009 - 2:50 PM
zohail,
12. January 2009 - 2:52 PM
hello brother zohail i am frm india i was read ur longthy messages. but brother u ppl frm pakistan shud think how bad u r affecting good names of indian muslims. see urself so much hatred for india and all ur messages only here for giving so much hatred no good point. why brother. why u ppl in pakistan have textbook say hindus evil jihad good. it was in indian papers. even u say india was in pakistan earlier what this funny tamasha brother. because of u world think all muslim r fanatic and foolish but inshallah we indian muslim show that is not true only pakistani muslim are fanatic.
brother pls change the hatred in ur heart for india for indian ppl and even hindu. u send terrorist that kill forty muslims also.
see brother only two days ago u were heckling ppl here that indian are gay indian r showing impotency bcoz u ppl killed so many in bombay and it was success for u killing so many ppl. now u say about isreal on palestine “atrocity atrocity†what a impotency brother. see hatred is making u say these foolish things calling indian impotent when u terrorist kill but shouting atrocity when somebody kill u terrorists. so world is laughing at all muslims because of u pakistani ppl brother who say different funny thing at different time brother.
anyway take care and b happy and so many times u said u will not come here again pls do not come again as u r funny and all ppl will think indian msulims also funny bcoz of u brother.
12. January 2009 - 5:53 PM
Mr. Abdullah first study my posts and then only comment on it
Could u pls tell my one post referring Mumbai Attacks as a Very Good thing carried out by these Terrorists? No u cant put ur words inside my mouth and here what posters are doing Creating a Link Between Islam and Terrorism this is un acceptable if it is acceptable for u then bro this is ur choice loosing ur religion i cant do it!!!
Secondly When u give threat without going into details it will only damage relations and nothing else , there is no need to give threats to me as i am not a military chief of Pakistan and after all it doesn’t help, i was offering peace comments then ppl were thinking that Mr. Zohail is crying for it ok dont take it as a weakness so i answered in the same manner as i was threatened by the poster
Thirdly i am offcourse muslim and i truly believe and Support my holy Book and my Religion and the true difference between u and me Abdullah is this faith i hold in both
and the slangs are used by some poster thats why it was answered accordingly in the same manner i was not the First to use it but offcourse returned back the gift from the mindless Poster….
and about attrocites of Palestinians i am not wrong they are suffering if u think they are terrorists and justify that killings then i think u have lost ur status of a Human Being, if u think this all is Funny thing then u brother should join Mr, G Subramanium ask for his address as posted by mr sandeep
#
On 01.11.09 Sandeep says:
@ G Subramaniam
“How can you possibly justify supporting Israeli action against innocent civilians in Gaza by using 1400 years of Islamic crime? Have you even seen or read about the way of life of the people in Gaza? Its shocking and heart rending. People like you should be forced to spend some time in such an environment to understand it firsthand.”
this is what i am trying to say over this blog and ppl dont like it i never justified the killings by these Terrorists but everybody here is busy in Justifying killings of Gujrat Godhra, Babri Masjid incident and all other Riots with atrocities of Mughal Era which they study in there text books and relating Islam to Terrorism which is un acceptable and i will Protest and Argue for that if u say ME FANATIC , MINDLESS , EXTREMIST, Funny ,whatever u want to say i will accept it asa compliment……….
thanx for ur suggestions and recommendations from which i was able to understand more what is the position of muslims in India these days………….. We are here to condemn the heinous acts of Israel and we should do that instead of taking this topic to somewhere else……………
i always decided not to come here but i cant be quiet if ppl target my faith and Religion ………
12. January 2009 - 6:15 PM
“what about 500k kashmiri pundits flushed away from J & K and decrease in population of hindus in bangladesh
i dont know why these 500 K hindu Pundits have been flushed away by these kashmiris but i wonder how in the presence of a million soldiers of indian Army this thing happened to these Hindu Pandits ?
But if this has been done then It is not right in any case Hindus if they are native and living there for years then nobody have right to flush them away from there this needs to be condemned and i condemn this if Muslims have done this i dont support the wrong doings of Muslims as i explained earlier……… nor i say that Muslims are always right !!! i said thousand times Followers make Mistake but dont blame Religion for those mistakes !!!!
12. January 2009 - 6:31 PM
“i dont know why these 500 K hindu Pundits have been flushed away by these kashmiris but i wonder how in the presence of a million soldiers of indian Army this thing happened to these Hindu Pandits ”
I dont know why the Palestinians have been cornered into tiny bits of land in Israel. I wonder how in the presence of the Arab states this thing happned to these Palestinians.
12. January 2009 - 6:32 PM
Now isnt that a just cause for jihad by the Hindu Pandits Mr Zohail?
12. January 2009 - 7:00 PM
……… nor i say that Muslims are always right !!! i said thousand times Followers make Mistake but dont blame Religion for those mistakes !!!!
Zohail !!!can u name any muslim country where population of nonmuslims have not decreased drastically in past 100 years ????
1 Population of minorities always falls in Islamic countries
2 Minorities don’t have equal rights in many islamic countries
3 No Islamic country gives special benifits to minorities
4 Condition of Women is worst in Islamic Countries.
5 There is no public holiday for Deepawali in Pakistan
(http://www.qppstudio.net/publicholidays2009/pakistan.htm)
6 more than 90% terror attacks in world are by Muslim
fudamentalists
7 Maximum no of state disputes across world involve muslim
countries
8 Only muslim law allows 4 wives for a man, despite sex ratio
in favour of men(eg 52:48 in pakistan)
9 Muslim countries do not allow rationalism, not even
questioning, reasoning about Islam, if any anyone does that
then he/she is met with unhuman punishment(eg death sentence
on raising doubt about Mohammad)
list continued …..
Still u are saying don’t blame Islam, I do not see any other thing other than Islam to blame.
Dont’ discard above statements merely by saying that I have no evidence or my knowledge is based on propaganda etc, I am ready to discuss each and every point in detail along with authentic proof.
12. January 2009 - 7:37 PM
“….but i wonder how in the presence of a million soldiers of indian Army this thing happened to these Hindu Pandits â€
Zohail!! Now from where u got this “million soldier” figure
12. January 2009 - 8:03 PM
I know Mr, Jai u are frustrated with the spread of Islam in the world but truth is truth
*
1 Population of minorities always falls in Islamic countries (Islam is spreading even in US and other places and it is ranked top on Fast spreading Religion in this World)
2 Minorities don’t have equal rights in many islamic countries (what type of Equal rights ? they are equal but not special)
3 No Islamic country gives special benifits to minorities
(no special rights Why there should be?)
4 Condition of Women is worst in Islamic Countries. (yes u are right if u think that in India is better then its ur thinking in ur mind what is worst may be ok in my mind this will never end Let me tell u one thing Conversion from other religion to islam the ratio is 4 Women : 1 men bcoz of the rights islam grants to them Equal )
5 There is no public holiday for Deepawali in Pakistan
(http://www.qppstudio.net/publicholidays2009/pakistan.htm Why there should be Hindus are allowed to celebrate Deepawali within their Homes they are of course provided paid holidays at work on deepawali what else u want Should we start making Deepawali with u on Govt Level and u should also start slaughtering Goats and Cows with us on Eid , We greet hindus here on deepawali for sure ppl get rights according to their population and representation in the assemblies on Govt level)
6 more than 90% terror attacks in world are by Muslim
fudamentalists (CNN , FOX NEWS , STAR NEWS …….etc )
7 Maximum no of state disputes across world involve muslim
countries(bcoz in Kashmir u Occupy n Israel ur friends are slaughtering Muslims in Palestine have u ever seen Israel Map for 100 years see the changes in it it is gettin bigger and bigger by Force and killings)
8 Only muslim law allows 4 wives for a man, despite sex ratio (it was only allowed to stop Adultery in Society to stop indecent sexual relations to stop disease like aids and others there are benefits of that and not everybody is allowed in Islam only person who have enuff wealth and health to meet the requirements of 4 wives is allowed not free for all stuff)
9 Muslim countries do not allow rationalism, not even
questioning, reasoning about Islam, if any anyone does that
then he/she is met with unhuman punishment(eg death sentence on raising doubt about Mohammad) ( bcoz my Friend this is our Religion this is not a text Book in which u can change whatever u want this is not Fun this is Religion, this is what Emperors in old Ages before Islam Did changed Laws of Lord according to their Luxury ….. not allowed at all and our religion is like that Surrendering ur self to the Will of Allah without any question and to accept what is presented to us Full and final that is why Islam is spreading No changes Allowed……. in Quran)
see this link and see for urself various proofs to attest the authencity of Quran
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html
list continued …..
Still u are saying don’t blame Islam, I do not see any other thing other than Islam to blame. (this is what u can do without going deep and studying it, if u dont accept it dont Argue on it and spend ur Health and Wealth to prove it wrong bcoz u cannot do any harm)
Like Christianity, Islam permits fighting in self-defence, in defence of religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good men were not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause. The Quran says:
‘Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors.’ (2.190)
‘If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things.’ (8.61)
War, therefore, is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term jihad literally means ‘struggle’, and Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad. The other jihad is the inner struggle which everyone wages against egotistic desires, for the sake of attaining inner peace
13. January 2009 - 9:13 AM
India is a junk country ruled by Islamists. Hindus are 3rd class C grade citizens
13. January 2009 - 10:13 AM
zohail,
why did the brave paki fauj send palestinians to jannat in jordan?
13. January 2009 - 1:02 PM
Because these arab states does not possess War Equipment and Soldiers and machinery and nuclear arsenal , Phosphorus Bombs , Cluster Bombs, Chemical Weapons and all stuff they are believing in Peace and thats Why they are getting this treatment from Israel tell me One Arab state who possess Weapons and Soldiers compared to Israel now they are suffering becoz of this they should develop all this stuff to defend them selves
You dont have any idea what these Palestinians are going thru 365 days of the year they have been blocked from both sides Land ,Sea majority is living like minority, Israel is usinf Chemical weapons Phosphorus Bombs it has been confirmed by various sources internationally , destroying hospitals whats the use of it , No food , no water , all type of war crimes they are commiting, 900 killed and 4000 injured do u think all are terrorists, what they can do they dont have weapons thats why they are being killed How many Israelis do u know got killed or injured , israel carry out 100 air strikes in day and Hamas Fires 15 Rockets what damage ddo u think they can do, Israel wants to finish off the retaliation force so He can easily wipe off palestinians easily by Bulldozing there homes and making new colonies and everyone is silent but One should condemn what is wrong other wise he will be held liable at the day of judgment !!!
Resolution in U.N is not passed in earlier days to stop the War bcoz U.s and Britain opposed it but planes and special flights are carrying weapons from U.s thru Britain route to Israel easily even chemical weapons this is creating Terrorists !! if u are silent on the acts of Terror then u are creating Terrorists !!!
13. January 2009 - 1:13 PM
#
On 01.13.09 dhimmi says:
zohail,
why did the brave paki fauj send palestinians to jannat in jordan?
Pls show me the link to this info i cant find it Mr. DHIMMI
13. January 2009 - 1:38 PM
Zohail:
You havent commented on the nine points Jai raised regarding Islamic countries. Interesting
13. January 2009 - 2:35 PM
so Mr Z, shouldn’t you be applying the standards of horrendous conditions of the Palestianians to the Hindu Kashmiri Pandits who’ve been reduced to the status of de facto refugees in their own country, isnt that ground enough for jihad by the Pandits against Pak?
13. January 2009 - 3:06 PM
“I know Mr, Jai u are frustrated with the spread of Islam in the world but truth is truth ”
You know every thing!!! it seems that you are god.
Please introspect and find out whether u are frustrated !!!
Regarding points I raised
1.As every Muslim does, you are also in complete denial mode.
You did nothing rational, except denying my points without any logic.
2.For Miseries of muslims u blamed others as usual.
“It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good men were not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause. The Quran says:”
Muslim invaders almost all of them plundered india and killed inocents, took their women, destroyed temples, forcly converted, destroyed places of learning(eg Nalanda), all in name of Islam.
And they felt proud of doing so and they were considered heros of islam. What more they themselves have recorded each and every act of voilence and justified the cruelities in name of islam.
I have got nearly 3000 Muslim chronical references in which all these atrocities are described as acts of heroism.
If u wish I can get u those. but i am afraid sandeep will get short of space so i’ll get u one by one if u wish.
“Only muslim law allows 4 wives for a man, despite sex ratio (it was only allowed to stop Adultery in Society to stop indecent sexual relations to stop disease like aids and others there are benefits of that and not everybody is allowed in Islam only person who have enuff wealth and health to meet the requirements of 4 wives is allowed not free for all stuff”
Dear Zohail can u kindly elaborate more why it is still continued.
” Minorities don’t have equal rights in many islamic countries (what type of Equal rights ? they are equal but not special)”
Can u please give me the names of muslim countries out of 52 countries where minorities have equal rights.
“Condition of Women is worst in Islamic Countries. (yes u are right if u think that in India is better then its ur thinking in ur mind what is worst may be ok in my mind this will never end Let me tell u one thing Conversion from other religion to islam the ratio is 4 Women : 1 men bcoz of the rights islam grants to them Equal )”
You mean to say there are 4 muslim women against one muslim men, I will be very very very grateful to u if u please provide me the source of your information.
“Maximum no of state disputes across world involve muslim
countries(bcoz in Kashmir u Occupy n Israel ur friend………”
You mean to say Muslims will destroy world because of kashmir and israel. Take a pen and paper, draw 2 colums, in one column note down islamic country with dispute and in other column note down non islamic country with dispute.
“bcoz my Friend this is our Religion this is not a text Book in which u can change whatever u want this is not Fun this is Religion,……… ….. not allowed at all and our religion is like that Surrendering ur self to the Will of Allah without any question and to accept what is presented to us Full and final that is why Islam is spreading No changes Allowed……. in Quran)”
who, why and when made it full and final. There is nothing full and final in these universe. it is ever changing. “Parivartan sansaar ka niyam hai”
13. January 2009 - 3:20 PM
i commented on these 9 points yesterday but they were held for moderation now they are clear i think u can see them , i always try to answer in a timely manner but if it delayed its beyond my control but i never eat questions as some here does !!!!
13. January 2009 - 3:35 PM
u see mr. jai i even dont know the names of these all emperors u are saying heroes of Islam no they might be celebrated by some islamic scholars but it does not mean that Islam attest all bad acts of these emperors , i only know my My Allah,Holy Book and my Messenger for everything else i am not responsible Every Human has a separate contact with the Creator and he stands alone in the Good and bad he does
u have not mentioned this verse let me repeat u love to explain things out of context
‘Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors.’ (2.190)
Only he knows who is transgressor in fact God is talking to ?Muslims in this verse and warning them
again i tell u Stop blaming the religion for the followers it is turning the world into living hell !!!!
13. January 2009 - 3:38 PM
that ration thing is for conversion rate, those who are converting to islam from other relgions are 4 women and 1 men in five new muslims ok
13. January 2009 - 4:01 PM
“that ration thing is for conversion rate, those who are converting to islam from other relgions are 4 women and 1 men in five new muslims ok”
My dear brother Zohail!! I am again requesting u to kindly please let me know the source of this information.
13. January 2009 - 4:05 PM
” see mr. jai i even dont know the names of these all emperors u are saying heroes of Islam no they might be celebrated by some islamic scholars but it does not mean that Islam attest all bad acts of these emperors ”
Glad to know ur view point, this means if I provide u the names of emperors with proof, will u condenm them ???????????????? Kindly let me know
13. January 2009 - 4:13 PM
“Every Human has a separate contact with the Creator and he stands alone in the Good and bad he does ”
Fine !!! if this is what u believe(which I also believe in my heart), then why should an individual not have his own view point, abot religion/god ?
Why an individual not be allowed to reason/questioed when his contact with god/allah is peronal and it has nothing to do with others ?
When contact of person with allah is so personal then why should be there any rules/regulations imposed by any religion ?
13. January 2009 - 4:16 PM
“that ration thing is for conversion rate, those who are converting to islam from other relgions are 4 women and 1 men in five new muslims ok”
This means Muslims can have extra 3 wives only from converted women ???? kinly enlighten me
13. January 2009 - 4:31 PM
“i only know my My Allah,Holy Book and my Messenger for everything else i am not responsible ”
My dear brother Zohail I am not at all holding u responsible. I am holding stiffness/untolerability/unquestionability/no right to relious freedom/ in Islam responsible for it.
13. January 2009 - 4:43 PM
see bother sohail u r still act funny u say u will go away u come back again and again what problem brother when u ppl hate india why u ppl come again and again to india blogs very funny. see this is the problem with u pakistani ppl so obsesioned with hating india we just want u to leave alone. but u hatred so much in ur hearts u want fight. but u send ur terrorist ppl and becoz of u success killing 300 indians in bombay with forty muslim in them in you laugh indian impotency. R U human being brother? isreal kill hamas terrorist becoz they lunch rocket from school kill school children you cry atrocity atrocity why brother. see i beleave allah, allah decide i will lost religion or u terrorist ppl lost religion u dont worry brother. why u think all muslim r like u brother! allah know hamas put innocent ppl in risky fire rocket from school and complex who atrocity brother? r u human being is i ask? u think allah happy u ppl kill 300 indian and call india importency but not say word when hamas put children risky? what kind ppl r u in pakistan brother. kill shia kill indian kill always obsessioned with pulling india down??
see in india also we have ppl like u indian communist they killed innocent muslim in nandgram and they r ur friend brother? they also talk like u only? funny haan. indian ppl think communist jokers they no longer get vote they speak like u feeling indian muslim fool when they kill so many ppl like u in nandgram right. good couple brother indian communist & u. u r viagra for them they r ur condome ha ha ha ha.
13. January 2009 - 4:50 PM
and see brother some hindu talk very bad about islam it make me very bad u see. but u ppl send terrorist kill indian ppl bombay kashmir this what happens? all ppl become hard in mind?? and indian communist ur condome they speak bad abt hindu to support u it become more minds harder? world think pakistan is international head ache. u stop killing then u see the bad name u give to islam go away?? i will not lost religion brother all all merciful. u ppl have religion u kill innocent ppl?
13. January 2009 - 5:14 PM
see bother sohail u r still act funny u say u will go away u come back again and again what problem brother when u ppl hate india why u ppl come again and again to india blogs very funny. see this is the problem with u pakistani ppl so obsesioned with hating india we just want u to leave alone. but u hatred so much in ur hearts u want fight. but u send ur terrorist ppl and becoz of u success killing 300 indians in bombay with forty muslim in them in you laugh indian impotency. R U human being brother? isreal kill hamas terrorist becoz they lunch rocket from school kill school children you cry atrocity atrocity why brother. see i beleave allah, allah decide i will lost religion or u terrorist ppl lost religion u dont worry brother. why u think all muslim r like u brother! allah know hamas put innocent ppl in risky fire rocket from school and complex who atrocity brother? r u human being is i ask? u think allah happy u ppl kill 300 indian and call india importency but not say word when hamas put children risky? what kind ppl r u in pakistan brother. kill shia kill indian kill always obsessioned with pulling india down??
see in india also we have ppl like u indian communist they killed innocent muslim in nandgram and they r ur friend brother? they also talk like u only? funny haan. indian ppl think communist jokers they no longer get vote they speak like u feeling indian muslim fool when they kill so many ppl like u in nandgram right. good couple brother indian communist & u. u r viagra for them they r ur condome ha ha ha.
13. January 2009 - 6:22 PM
No its not like that muslims can have extra 3 wives from conversions only , i was describing that due to the rights Islam gives to women they convert more to islam if compared to men converting to Islam. that 4 wives issue is something else it is only allowed to the person who is scrupulously Fair to all wives ……… two separate issues u are trying to make it one…….. clear ur mind
and if these muslim emperors about whom u r talking if u provide me names and proofs i will study and definitely condemn their bad acts i will study in deep before making my statement ………
that question thing u asked there certain rules in every society and they are provided by the creator u have to follow
Look asking questions about religion and faith or Islam is allowed but if u have something else in ur mind and asking and trying to derive benefits while degrading the Religion or the messengers is punishable in Islam nothing wrong in it do not like it leave it dont argue or pass comments it hurts sentiments of the follower or the person from whom u are asking but if u try to make changes in Religion is also Forbidden this is the basic of Islam Allah dont allow humans to make changes in his Laws so simple otherwise Faith will become Fun……….
have u checked that link i have posted about Quran and Science attested by various Doctors, scientists who are not Muslims pls check it out how Quran 1400 years ago told about things that were later revealed to the science……….
13. January 2009 - 6:31 PM
“No its not like that muslims can have extra 3 wives from conversions only , i was describing that due to the rights Islam gives to women they convert more to islam if compared to men converting to Islam. that 4 wives issue is something else it is only allowed to the person who is scrupulously Fair to all wives ……… two separate issues u are trying to make it one…….. clear ur mind ”
1 “4 women converting against 1 men converting” if you don gave this statement against my question of why men can have 4 wives then my question of 4 marriages still remains unanswered.
2 also u have yet not given me the source of figure of 4:1 conversion. I will be highly obliged/thankful/grateful to u if u let me know the source.
3 Also I would also like to know the benifits islam gives to women due to which more women are converting to islam then men.
wating for your answers to above 3 queries
13. January 2009 - 6:36 PM
M. S. IS either completely out of touch, or he choses to bend over to the muslim constutents in his own party. Hopefully, the Indian people will get rid of this fool at next elections. I cannot believe that he now is carrying water for hamaZ and believs their every lies.
Finally, Israel will not yield or bend over anymore and this should ne a lesson to India in the future as they will struggle about which decisicion to make.
Ariel
13. January 2009 - 6:39 PM
Sandeep – shishupAla came with an integer limit. hope you have one in mind for sudarshana treatments.
13. January 2009 - 6:42 PM
Mr Z, I’m still waiting for a response on this:
‘so Mr Z, shouldn’t you be applying the standards of horrendous conditions of the Palestianians to the Hindu Kashmiri Pandits who’ve been reduced to the status of de facto refugees in their own country, isnt that ground enough for jihad by the Pandits against Pak or the terrorists?’
13. January 2009 - 6:42 PM
Mr. Abdullah pls try to improve ur english i am unable to understand what u r saying
13. January 2009 - 6:54 PM
Ariel, you’re quite right. However, MS comes from a party that has had a history of pandering away to the minorities. He and his party would bend over backwards to seduct them. They would corrupt every institution in India to do that.
13. January 2009 - 6:54 PM
ur question of 4 wives answered here
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife’s permission)and prefers you marry only one wife {Koran 4:3} The Koran gives the woman the right to choose who to marry.
see the surah and tell me if u are clear in this or not
This is why more women converting to islam from other religions
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}.
The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Koran 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says “The Birth of a Daughter is a loss” {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}.
The Koran says both are an Equal Blessing {Koran 42:49}
3. The Bible forbids women from speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}.
The Koran says women can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as an Adulteress, not men {Matthew 5:31-32}
The Koran does Not have Biblical double standards{Koran 30:21}
5. In The Bible, widows and sisters do not inherit Any property or wealth, only men do {Numbers 27:1-11}
The Koran abolished this male greed {Koran 4:22} and God protects all.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives {I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the wife’s permission)and prefers you marry only one wife {Koran 4:3} The Koran gives the woman the right to choose who to marry.
7. “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives” {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the rest of your life with the man who raped you.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book 86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:”It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage)”.
Would the Non-Muslim men reading this prefer the Women they know to be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}
ur 4:1 ratio question i am trying to find a source that is acceptable to u as u will not accept an islamic source i will get back to u for this Mr. Jai
13. January 2009 - 6:57 PM
want to see the status of Women in Islam how they are treated follow the link…… if u are really in search of truth regarding Islam otherwise it is waste of time
http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Converts
13. January 2009 - 7:03 PM
How can u compare these Hindu Pansits with palestinians if they are suffering its a separate issue but there is no comparison between these two
1. Are they attacked daily do they get killed by the Govt or militants,
2. someone use chemical Phosphorus bombs on them so there body parts get pierced even doctors from norway today confirmed that Israel is testing new chemical weapons on them it is a special type of bomb that dont injure but kills the victim instantly by piercing the whole body.
3. Are there 100 air strikes in a day on hindu pandits are there children getting killed 5 or 8 years or there families ?
list goes on and on pls dont compare the two both are condemnable but no comparison at all
13. January 2009 - 7:08 PM
I am not interested in bible v/s quran. when quran say men can marry 4 wivws then why women cannot marry 4 men ????
also u have yet not given me the source of figure of 4:1 conversion. I will be highly obliged/thankful/grateful to u if u let me know the source
it will be better if u direcly post your views. references to the sites sholud only be given for verifications and not for content.
I can also mention no of links showing animal like status of women in islam
It seems u are relying on these unlimited sites for your information.
13. January 2009 - 7:19 PM
Mr Z, their conditions are incomparable except that the Hindu Pandits have lost their homes permanently and have little to get back even if they have a chance to. Isnt this really a situation of the Nakbah where you blame the Israelis of evicting Palestinians from their lands and throwing them into the ghettos that they are now in. Wasnt that reason enough for you to start your jihad against Israel and the US? By your jihadi standards, this can be a call for a legitimate jihad by the Pandits for forcing them out of their lands by the terrorists. I’m sure you agree that you dont need phosphorous bombs pounding over you to declare jihad.
13. January 2009 - 7:28 PM
Islam was not spread by the sword. It was spread by the word & the example of its followers. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256 & 10:99)
13. January 2009 - 7:55 PM
if this is the case with hindu pandits then off course they need to struggle for just cause sure Allah will help them ,
13. January 2009 - 9:56 PM
z,
you dont seem to have the brains to do a search on wikipedia.You are a paki.Cant expect either intelligence or integrity.
Just to humour you,i love rafi saab-the great hindi film singer.
13. January 2009 - 10:03 PM
I am astound, flabbergasted. Dear Zohail you got to be monumentaly STUPID, STUPID AND STUPID. Has Islam made you such a hair brained individual that you cannot listen to logic? Guys do not easte time . you cannot change ass to a horse.
13. January 2009 - 11:19 PM
why no answer brother zohail. bad english and some stupid exCuse and running away? like indian communist u dont want talk when u r caught ur hatred & Desire for killing indian and pulling india down Got exposed??
anyways pls stop support for killing innocent ppl brother. allah do not like if u pakistan terrorist ppl kill innocent indian ppl. if u ppl start to be human being then bad name u gave islam go away and peaceful muslim like us in india live better. stop act funny also, ok.
13. January 2009 - 11:23 PM
>>You are a paki.Cant expect either intelligence or integrity.
no no no brother dhimmi, brother zohail is very very intelligence paki. as intelligence as ISI! two peoples are very intelligence in this world one is indian communist and other is pakistani. they kill and they ask where is proof?
14. January 2009 - 3:45 AM
Mr Shah, don’t know much about Indian politis (yet), but stil learning.
My point is this: If the current Indian leader is SO eager to self-destruct his own people, then the people have to get rid of him. Look to Europe and see how OUR leaders is about to make the entire Europe intoa full-blown Ummah and nbody is standing up to it.
As the future is now, I am unlikely to ever return to Europe and it is getting worse by the day. You guys still have the possibilty to stand up, but then get rid of your crapy leaders that say or do things like this.
14. January 2009 - 5:21 AM
Islam was not spread by the sword. It was spread by the word & the example of its followers. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256 & 10:99) – zohail
—
Read the muslim historians themselves
In living memory, over 1 million hindus were forcibly converted in pakistan and bangladesh during partition
In Nuristan in Afghanistan, the kafirs were forcibly converted to islam in 1890
In kerala, 20,000 hindus were forcibly converted to islam during moplah riots and then reconverted by Swami Shraddananda
The above meccan koran verse has been abrogated by sura 9:5
kill the kafirs wherever you find them
14. January 2009 - 7:41 AM
I do infact support zohail in statement that Islam was not spread by the sword, if that were the case then all of us would be living in Islamic republic of india by now.
And as will duranat said
“A civilization is not conquered from without until it is destroyed from within.
”
Now all you losers cry Islamic invaders pillaged india, what were indians doing then? eating pav bhaji!!!
FOr your referance i am indian, hindu, narendra modi supporing indian
14. January 2009 - 9:33 AM
Chowk
On September 15 (1970), King Hussein declared martial law. The next day, Jordanian tanks (the 60th Armored Brigade) attacked the headquarters of Palestinian organizations in Amman; the army also attacked camps in Irbid, Salt, Sweileh,Baq’aa, Wehdat and Zarqa. Then the head of Pakistani training mission to Jordan, Brigadier Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq (later Chief of Army Staff and President of Pakistan), took command of the 2nd division.[2] [3] In addition, the Iraqi army in Jordan after 1967 war serving as a reserve forces supported the Jordanian army.[4]
Arafat later claim that the Jordanian army killed between 10,000 and 25,000 Palestinians, although more conservative estimates put the number between 1000 and 2000.
14. January 2009 - 12:04 PM
“two peoples are very intelligence in this world one is indian communist and other is pakistani. they kill and they ask where is proof?”
Wah ! wah! abdulla bhai kya baat kahi hai, kya comparision kiya hai, maan gaye tumko. Well said!!!
14. January 2009 - 12:17 PM
Dear Zohai
Following is a article which explains , how temples were destructed by muslims and how they were recorded by muslim historians themselves and how later on those parts were secretly removed from the english versions books available in libraries to fool the west and other non belivers……
By Arun Shorie
Article starts..
A case in which the English version of a major book by a renowned Muslim scholar, the fourth Rector of one of the greatest centres of Islamic learning in India, listing some of the mosques, including the Babri Masjid, which were built on the sites and foundations of temples, using their stones and structures, is found to have the tell-tale passages censored out;
The book is said to have become difficult to get;
It is traced: And is found to have been commanded just 15 years a-o by the most influential living Muslim scholar of our country today, the current Rector of that great centre of Islamic learning, and the Chairman of the Muslim Personal Law Board.
Evasion, concealment, have become a national habit. And they have terrible consequences. But first I must give you some background.
The Nadwatul-Ulama of Lucknow is one of the principal centres of Islamic learning in India. It was founded in 1894. It ranks today next only to the Darul-Ulum at Deoband. The government publication, Centres of Islamic Learning in India, recalls how the founders aimed at producing capable scholars who could project a true image of Islam before the modern world in an effective way; it recalls how Towards fulfilling its avowed aim in the matter of educational reform, it (the group) decided to establish an ideal educational institution which would not only provide education in religious and temporal sciences but also offer technical training; it recalls how It (the Nadwa) stands out today-with its college, a vast and rich library and Research and Publication Departments housed in fine buildings-as one of the most outstanding institutions for imparting instruction in the Islamic Sciences; it recalls how A salient feature of this institution is its emphasis on independent research; it recalls how The library of the Nadwa, housed in the Central Hall and the surrounding rooms of the main building, is, with more than 75,000 titles including about 3,000 handwritten books mostly in Arabic and also in Persian, Urdu, English etc., one of the finest libraries of the sub-continent. That was written 10 years ago. The library now has 125,000 books.
Maulana Hakim Sayid Abdul Hai, was an equally well known and influential figure. When the Nadwa was founded, the first Rector, Maulana Muhammad Monghyri, the scholar at whose initiative the original meeting in 1892 which led to the establishment of the Nadwa was called, had chosen Maulana Abdul Hai as the Madadgar Nazim, the Additional Rector.
Abdul Hai served in that capacity till July 1915 when he was appointed the Rector.
Because of his scholarship and his services to the institution and to Islam, he was reappointed as the Rector in 1920. He continued in that post till his death in February 1923.
He too wrote several books, including a famous directory which has just been republished from Hyderabad, of thousands of Muslims who had served the cause of Islam in India, chiefly by the numbers they had converted to the faith.
During some work I came across the reference to a book of his and began to look for it.
It was a long, discursive book, I learnt, which began with descriptions of the geography, flora and fauna, languages, people and the regions of India. These were written for the Arabic speaking peoples, the book having been written in Arabic.
In 1972, I learnt, the Nadwatul-Ulama had the book translated into Urdu and published the most important chapters of the book under the title Hindustan Islami Ahad Mein (�Hindustan under Islamic Rule�). Ali Mian, I was told, had himself written the foreword in which he had commanded the book most highly. The book as published had left out descriptions of geography etc., on the premise that facts about these are well known to Indian readers.
A Sudden Reluctance
A curious fact hit me in the face. Many of the persons who one would have normally expected to be knowledgeable about such publications were suddenly reluctant to recall this book. I was told, in fact, that copies of the book had been removed, for instance from the Aligarh Muslim University Library. Some even suggested that a determined effort had been made three or four years ago to get back each and every copy of this book.
Fortunately the suggestion turned out to be untrue. While some of the libraries one would normally expect, to have the book-the Jamia Millia Islamia in Delhi; the famous libraries in Hyderabad-those of the Dairutual Maarifal-Osmania, of the Salar Jung Museum, of the Nizam�s Trust, of the Osmania University, the Kutubkhana-i-Saidiya – did not have it, others did. Among the latter were the Nadwa�s library itself, the justly famous Khuda Baksh Library in Patna, that of the Institute of Islamic Studies in Delhi.
The fact that the book was available in all these libraries came as a great reassurance. I felt that if reactionaries and propagandists have become so well organised that they can secure the disappearance from every library of a book they have come not to like, we are in deep trouble. Clearly they were not that resourceful.
The fact that, contrary to what I had been told, the book was available also taught me another reassuring thing: factional fights among Muslim fundamentalists are as sharp and intense as are the factional fights among fundamentalists of other hues. For the suggestion of there being something sinister in the inaccessibility of the book had come to me from responsible Muslim quarters.
The book is the publication number 66 of the Majlis Tehqiqat wa Nashriat Islam, the publication house of the Nadwatul-Ulama, Lucknow.
The Arabic version was published in 1972 in Hyderabad, the Urdu version in 1973 in Lucknow. An English version was published in 1977. I will use the Urdu version as the illustration.
Maulana Abul-Hasan Ali Nadwi, that is Ali Mian himself, contributes the foreword.
It is an eloquent, almost lyrical foreword.
Islam has imbued its followers with the quest for truth, with patriotism, he writes. Their nature, their culture has made Muslims the writers of true history, he writes.
Muslims had but to reach a country, he writes, and its fortunes lit up and it awakened from the slumber of hundreds and thousands of years. The country thereby ascended from darkness to light, he writes, from oblivion and obscurity to the pinnacle of name and fame. Leaving its parochial ambit, he writes, it joined the family of man, it joined the wide and vast creation of God. And the luminescence of Islam, he writes, transformed its hidden treasures into the light of eyes.
It did not stick away the wealth of the country, he writes, and vomit it elsewhere as western powers did. On the contrary, it brought sophistication, culture, beneficient administration, peace, tranquility to the country. It raised the country from the age of savagery to the age of progress, he writes, from infantilism to adulthood. It transformed its barren lands into swaying fields, he writes, its wild shrubs into fruit-laden trees of such munificence that the residents could not even have dreamt of them.
And so on.
He then recalls the vast learning and prodigious exertions of Maulana Abdul Hai, his 8-volume work on 4500 Muslims who served the cause of Islam in India, his directory of Islamic scholars.
He recalls how after completing these books the Maulana turned to subjects which had till then remained obscure, how in these labours the Maulana was like the proverbial bee collecting honey from varied flowers. He recounts the wide range of the Maulana�s scholarship. He recounts how the latter collected rare data, how a person like him accomplished single-handed what entire academies are unable these days to do.
He recounts the structure of the present book. He recalls how it lay neglected for long, how, even as the work of re-transcribing a moth-eaten manuscript was going on, a complete manuscript was discovered in Azamgarh, how in 1933 the grace of Providence saved it from destruction and obscurity.
He writes that the book brings into bold relief those hallmarks of Islamic rule which have been unjustly and untruthfully dealt with by western and Indian historians, which in fact many Muslim historians and scholars in universities and academies too have treated with neglect and lack of appreciation.
Recalling how Maulana Abdul Hai had to study thousands of pages on a subject, Ali Mian writes that only he who has himself worked on the subject can appreciate the effort that has gone into the study. You will get in a single chapter of this book, he tells the reader, the essence which you cannot obtain by reading scores of books. This is the result, he writes, of the fact that the author laboured only for the pleasure of God, for the service of learning, and the fulfilment of his own soul. Such authors expected no rewards, no applause, he tells us. Work was their entire satisfaction. That is how they were able to put in such herculean labours, to spend their entire life on one subject.
We are immensely pleased, he concludes, to present this valuable gift and historical testament to our countrymen and hope that Allah will accept this act of service and scholars will also receive it with respect and approbation.
The Explanation
Such being the eminence of the author, such being the greatness of the work, why is it not the cynosure of the fundamentalists�� eyes?
The answer is in the chapter �Hindustan ki Masjidein�, �The Mosques of Hindustan�.
Barely seventeen pages; the chapter is simply written. A few facts about some of the principal mosques are described in a few lines each.
The facts are well-known, they are elementary, and setting them out in a few lines each should attract no attention. And yet, as we shall see, there is furtiveness in regard to them. Why? Descriptions of seven mosques provide the answer.
The devout constructed so many mosques, Maulana Abdul Hai records, they lavished such huge amounts and such labours on them that they cannot all be reckoned, that every city, town, hamlet came to be adorned by a mosque. He says that he will therefore have to be content with setting out the facts of just a few of the well-known ones.
A few sentences from what he says about seven mosques will do:
�Qawwat al-Islam Mosque
According to my findings the first mosque of Delhi is Qubbat all-Islam or Quwwat al-Islam which, it is said, Qutbud-Din Aibak constructed in H. 587 after demolishing the temple built by Prithvi Raj and leaving certain parts of the temple (outside the mosque proper); and when he returned from Ghazni in H. 592, he started building, under orders from Shihabud-Din Ghori, a huge mosque of inimitable red stones, and certain parts of the temple were included in the mosque. After that, when Shamsud-Din Altamish became the king, he built, on both sides of it, edifices of white stones, and on one side of it he started constructing that loftiest of all towers which has no equal in the world for its beauty and strength�
The Mosque at Jaunpur
This was built by Sultan Ibrahim Sharqi with chiselled stones. Originally it was a Hindu temple after demolishing which he constructed the mosque. It is known as the Atala Masjid. The Sultan used to offer his Friday and Id prayers in it, and Qazi Shihabud-Din gave lessons in it�
The Mosque at Qanauj
This mosque stands on an elevated ground inside the Fort of Qanauj. It is well-known that it was built on the foundations of some Hindu temple (that stood) here. It is a beautiful mosque. They say that it was built by Ibrahim Sharqi in H. 809 as is (recorded) in �Gharabat Nigar�.
Jami (Masjid) at Etawah
This mosque stands on the bank of the Jamuna at Etawah. There was a Hindu temple at this place, on the site of which this mosque was constructed. It is also patterned after the mosque at Qanauj. Probably it is one of the monuments of the Sharqi Sultans.
Babri Masjid at Ayodhya
This mosque was constructed by Babar at Ayodhya which Hindus call the birth place of Ramchanderji. There is a famous story about his wife Sita. It is said that Sita had a temple here in which she lived and cooked food for her husband. On that very site Babar constructed this mosque in H. 963�
Mosques of Alamgir (Aurangzeb)
It is said that the mosque of Benares was built by Alamgir on the site of the Bisheshwar Temple. That temple was very tall and (held as) holy among the Hindus. On this very site and with those very stones he constructed a lofty mosque, and its ancient stones were rearranged after being embedded in the walls of the mosque. It is one of the renowed mosques of Hindustan. The second mosque at Benares (is the one) which was built by Alamgir on the bank of the Ganga with chiselled stones. This also is a renowned mosque of Hindustan. It has 28 towers, each of which is 238 feet tall. This is on the bank of the Ganga and its foundations extend to the depth of the waters.
Alamgir built a mosque at Mathura. It is said that this mosque was built on the site of the Gobind Dev Temple which was very strong and beautiful as well as exquisite��
�It is said�
But the Maulana is not testifying to the facts. He is merely reporting what was believed. He repeatedly says, �It is said that��
That seems to be a figure of speech with the Maulana. When describing the construction of the Quwwatul Islam mosque by Qutubuddin Aibak, for instance, he uses the same �It is said.�
If the facts were in doubt, would a �scholar of Ali Mian�s diligence and commitment not have commented on them in his full-bodied foreward? Indeed, he would have decided against republishing them as he decided not to republish much of the original book.
And if the scholars had felt that the passages could be that easily disposed of, why should any effort have been made to take a work to the excellence of which a scholar of Ali Mian�s stature has testified in such a fulsome manner, and do what has been done to this one? And what is that?
Each reference to each of these mosques having been constructed on the sites of temples with, as in the case of the mosque at Benaras, the stones of the very temple which was demolished for that very purpose have been censored out of the English version of the book! Each one of the passages on each one of the seven mosques! No accident that.
Indeed there is not just censorship but substitution. In the Urdu volume we are told in regard to the mosque at Qanauj for instance that �This mosque stands on an elevated ground inside the fort of Qanauj. It is well known that it was built on the foundation of some Hindu Temple (that stood) here.� In the English volume we are told in regard to the same mosque that �It occupied a commanding site, believed to have been the place earlier occupied by an old and decayed fort.�
If the passages could have been so easily explained away by referring to the �It is saids�, why would anyone have thought it necessary to remove these passages from the English version-that is the version which was more likely to be read by persons other than the faithful? Why would anyone bowdlerise the book of a major scholar in this way?
Conclusions
But that, though obvious, weighs little with me. The fact that temples were broken and mosques constructed in their place is well known. Nor is the fact that the materials of the temples-the stones and idols–were used in constructing the mosque, news. It was thought that this was the way to announce hegemony. It was thought that this was the way to strike at the heart of the conquered-for in those days the temple was not just a place of worship; it was the hub of the community�s life, of its learning, of its social life. So the lines in the book which bear on this practice are of no earth-shaking significance in themselves. Their real significance- and I dare say that they are but the smallest, most innocuous example that one can think of on the mosque-temple business-lies in the evasion and concealment they have spurred. I have it on good authority that the passages have been known for long, and well known to those who have been stoking the Babri Masjid issue.1
That is the significant thing; they have known them, and their impulse has been to conceal and bury rather than to ascertain the truth.
I have little doubt that a rational solution can be found for the Babri Masjid-Ram Janmabhoomi tangle, a solution which will respect the sentiments, the essentials, of the religions of all.
But no solution can be devised if the issue is going to be made the occasion for h show of strength by either side, if it is going to be converted into a symbol for establishing who shall prevail.
The fate of Maulana Abdul Hai�s passages-and I do, not know whether the Urdu version itself was not a conveniently sanitised version of the original Arabic volume-illustrates the cynical manner in which those who stoke the passions of religion to further their politics are going about the matter.
Those who proceed by such cynical calculations sow havoc for all of us, for Muslims, for Hindus, for all.
Those who remain silent in the face of such cynicism, such calculations help them sow the havoc.
Will we shed our evasions and concealments? Will we at last learn to speak and face the whole truth? To see how communalism of one side justifies and stokes that of the other? To see that these �leaders� are not interested in facts, not in religion, not in a building or a site, but in power, in their personal power, and in that alone? That for them religion is but an instrument, an instrument which is so attractive because the costs of weilding it fall on others, on their followers, and not on them?
14. January 2009 - 1:02 PM
In living memory, over 1 million hindus were forcibly converted in pakistan and bangladesh during partition
In Nuristan in Afghanistan, the kafirs were forcibly converted to islam in 1890
In kerala, 20,000 hindus were forcibly converted to islam during moplah riots and then reconverted by Swami Shraddananda
could u please provide me link to this info G.Subramanium
And i dont have any desire to pull India’s legs and bring India down u are again putting ur words inside my mouth, dont impose ur thinking over me its ur perception , I was only here to defend Palestine ppl and protest with the ppl who have sympathies with Israel and not palestine ppl who are suffering…………..
14. January 2009 - 1:18 PM
And about this India -Paki support thing when i use to live in india my perception was also according to the text books i read and media i heard there and always supported India against Paki whether India was right or wrong in the so called National Interest but after i moved to Dubai that is more independent in Media and news here are not biased so i always speak according to free press not the biased and forced news………..
so i will never support Pakistan Army for all the bad deeds and nor declare that Indian army is Innocent like Angel there are several black dots on them as well, no body is innocent stop supporting this crap.
But sure cannot take any attack on my religion and messenger and for that i will retaliate with full force……….. if u accept those attacks living in India Mr Abdullah its ur choice……….
14. January 2009 - 1:32 PM
For u Mr. Abdullah and all others who have brains for the so-called attacks by Pakistan ISI and Army see for urself there so much to question in this funny dossier?
Contents of Dossier of Proofs Provided by India to Pak
According to sources, who literally laughed off the India dossier, the evidence also includes a list of items recovered from a motorboat which was hijacked by the attackers to make their way to Mumbai. The list talks about a bag of flour from Karachi, Medicam toothpaste, tubes of the Touch Me shaving cream, toilet paper manufactured by ‘Zik Brothers, Karachi’ and T-shirts with ‘made in Pakistan’ labels. The evidence further talks about a Thuraya satellite phone found on the boat which was used to make several calls to Lahore and Karachi. The phone set was manufactured by a Dubai-based company and purchased from a Karachi-based dealer.
1. What about the rest of the nine terrorists?
They were not only NOT photographed. They also didn’t survive. There are no bodies. No DNA testing. No fingerprints. Indian media reports say their faces and fingers and bodies are all mutilated. And yet, Indian police comes out with perfect studio photos of each one of them and says they are Pakistanis. Were they carrying passports and IDs in their pockets?
1. Why was Ajmal Kassab so lucky?
The lone terrorist survivor in Mumbai is a lucky man. For some strange reason, the hordes of Indian photojournalists failed to capture the picture of any of the terrorists except Ajmal Kassab. And strangely, he was the only one to survive. Even more strangely, he turns out to be Pakistani.
If anything, ISI would want Hemant Karkare to be alive today, not killed execution-style through a carefully laid out trap at the hands of snipers in the very first hours of the Mumbai tragedy. Karkare was leading Indian investigations that proved that the killers of 60 Pakistani visitors to India in 2006 were active duty Indian army officers brainwashed by Hindu terrorist organizations. Who in Pakistan would want Karkare dead? Many in India, however, wanted to see him dead for betraying the cause of Hindu extremism. But the Indian government refuses to pursue this lead.
1. Is ISI an amateur spy agency or a professional one?
Would ISI, which makes both Americans and Indians pee in their pants, send 10 amateurs to Mumbai in a boat with Medicam toothpaste and Touch Me shaving cream and T-shirts with ‘Made in Pakistan’? During the Afghan Jihad, CIA took satellite images of Soviet positions in Afghanistan and then had them sketched in an unprofessional manner on plain paper using pencils and then handed over to the Mujahideen so that the Soviets won’t be able to trace them back to CIA if found. If that’s the level of professionalism in spy work, would ISI fail this standard?
14. January 2009 - 2:01 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/11/28/mumbai-attacks.html
“In a telephone interview with CBC News from outside the centre, freelance journalist Arun Asthhana said there are reports that some of the militants had stayed at a guest house there for up to 15 days before the attacks.
“They had a huge mass of ammunition, arms and food there,†Asthhana said.
That some stayed there before the attacks seem no longer in question. Later news reports state that the terrorists came to Nariman House posing as Malaysian students and were given lodging. Why Ultra-orthodox Jews would give lodging to these unknown Malaysian Muslim students is baffling; they could have been ‘terrorists’. After all they did not know them.
However, it is well known that those housing quarters are rented only to religious Jews passing through Mumbai, so much so that the Indian Police wanted to know why they were rented to non-Jews in this instance.
14. January 2009 - 2:10 PM
Matter of Shame for All who support Israel against Palestinians they will answer before there Lord on the Day of Judgment
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/gaza-horror-large-photo-gallery-of-gaza-massacre-by-israel/
14. January 2009 - 2:25 PM
This is what happens to Minorities in India Land of Peace and Very Merciful Hindutva Thoughts
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/india-kill-a-pastor-for-250/
14. January 2009 - 2:41 PM
HISTORY OF UR SO CALLED ANGELS OF INDIAN ARMY
just a brief one for ur kind info
The Indian Forces including Para Military Forces and police are playing in the hands of politicians. These opportunists are using them for crushing Sikhs, Muslims, Christens, Tamils, Sri Lankan, Kashmiri and harassing their political opponents. Carrying out such illegal intelligence and state sponsored activities totally converted the psyche of Indian soldiers. It becomes their second nature to commit unlawful and inhuman actions without considering their repercussions. Indian Armed forces are being known as Rogue Armed Forces. They are terribly involved in corruptions, looting, raping women, and drinking, unnatural and indecent acts, selling of issued items, embezzlements, theft, kidnapping, desertions, and disobedience of their seniors. Since 1947 there is not a single year could be found free from occurrence of criminal act amongst the troops. Quite frequently soldiers of Indian Armed Forces become the news of the day in locals, national and international media as a result of their involvement in malicious activities. Indian soldiers found committing immoral acts in peacekeeping forces too. On the night of 3 and 4 December at around 12:00 A.M. Indian troops of 36 RR and 146 Battalion CRPF barged in the house of Mohammad Abdullah Khatana in south Kashmir village at Dandipora, Kokernag.. The troops who were six in number asked them to switch off the lights before breaking the bolt of the main entrance. While narrating the incident the father of the victim said, we were locked in a room after thrashing me and my brother in law who also stays with us. After locking us in one room they took the victim in another room. The four troop’s gang raped the 17-year girl for an hour, while other two were guarding us. Its not one incident, in fact Indian Army are in the habits of repeating such type of valiance against the innocent public. According to Indian National Human Rights Commission, there were 1,039 cases of human rights violations ( which include, rapes, terrorizing, abduction & killing of innocent women, children youngsters & communal violence) by the security forces from 1990-1999, an average of 109 per year. I would also like to reveal here that no downward trend in crime ratio have been noticed so far. The indecent activities against the innocent agitators almost raised 100%. If we consider that it reduced by 50 % even then figures will be quite alarming for the international community. Indian Ministry of Defence reported that it filed 17 rape cases against army personnel whereas media reported 20 cases of rapes from 2003-2004 and by adding 50 % per annum will make this figure 80 till December, 2008. There are reports that till to-date only two or three rape cases have been concluded so far in a guilty verdict. In the remaining cases, the investigations are still in process or terminated because of tremendous pressure on the presidents of the court of inquiries, investigating officers or on the eye witnesses. After the death of Anti Terrorists Chief Karkara it becomes further difficult for the investigators to produce the genuine results in the criminal cases against powerful security forces.
Another bleak picture of Indian Armed Forces have been revealed by “The Times of India’ on October 3, 2005 , according to the newspaper War-room leaks, liquor scams and fake kills to garner gallantry medals and even rapes, murders has forced the authorities to stag 6,000 courts martial just since 20005. It further stressed that latest statistics show the, Army alone court-martialed 1,215 soldiers in 2000; 1,034 in 2001; 1,031 in 2002; 945 in 2003; and 872 in 2004. In just the last two years, over 20 rape and 10 murder charges have been leveled against soldiers.
The remaining soldiers including officers were charged on the offences of absent without leave, “acts prejudicial to good order and discipline†and desertion to accepting bribes and dishonest misappropriation of funds. The point here to be noted that it’s not only the “lower ranks†which have been afflicted; it included the cases of 30 officers too. The Tehelka generals, booze brigadiers and ketchup colonels, a major-general have been fired through court martial. Numbers of seniors and juniors officer were found guilty and punished too for the offence of bedazzlements. We can well imagine that officers of the rank of Lt General and Major Generals are under trial or convicted in various criminal cases. If the leaderships of an institutions gets themselves involved in such like offences then how they can stop their subordinates to abide by the laws.
It has also proved that Indian army officers are indulging themselves in terrorists and communal violence against minorities in and outside the country. On June 6, 1984 Indian military attacked on the holiest shrine of the Sikh religion, the Golden Temple in Amritsar, and 38 other Sikh temples throughout Punjab. It is an esteemed and established fact that Indian Army had slaughters over 20000 Sikhs and over 70000 Kashmiri in last few years. In 2008 Indian Army has also received a jolt when a serving Lt Col Srikant Prasad Purohit along with retired comrade were arrested in Malegaon Hindu violence against Muslims
14. January 2009 - 2:51 PM
See for Massacres at home before pointing ur finger on someone else do not take this discussion to somewhere else
as Politics, Religion, Terrorism, Armies, War, Hatred everything is in but what is not “talk of PEACE” it will take u nowhere this Fire of Hatred towards Religion is turning this world into Hell…………
14. January 2009 - 2:53 PM
zohail, your utterly dumb Q&A about the dossier is the same old nonsense about which you’ve been ranting in another post in this blog. I think ‘independence of the media’ is pretty relative. What you might consider ‘objective’ isnt objective to us and vice-versa. However, by saying that, I dont mean to absolve you of the rigidity of your thoughts about Islam, India and Indians.
14. January 2009 - 3:00 PM
Your participation on this forum here has degenerated our thus far healthy discussion into an ugly cacaphony of accusations and counter-accusations (me included). So if you’re done spitting your disgust on Hinduism and India, I’m going to take the liberty of requesting you to leave.
14. January 2009 - 4:01 PM
Mr. N. Shah
so called utterly dumb Q&A about the dossier make sense to me doesnt make to u bcoz ur brain is covered with blind belief and faith in ur Army and Govt and accusing ppl without proofs is ur Old habit and after 45 days proofs came out and look like rubbish !!!
at least u included ur self in turning this blog into rubbish, Stop talking about Religion and Supporting Israel against Palestine i will leave there is no need to ask me before that i have the right to speak and no one can take it from me , why u ppl come to blogs when u dont have courage to take the shot on chest u said so much disgusting about Islam , Messenger and Quran i always tried to clarify things but u always attacked on Religion and i never degraded or expressed hatred towards Hinduism i am the person who convicts followers not religions u are the other one
“far healthy discussion ”
u are having on this blog involve Religion and affect lives and thoughts of innocent individuals and contains false statements and fabricated evidence and sick thoughts u possess so it is un healthy for society what is healthy for u
14. January 2009 - 4:18 PM
u think that u keep on producing Hatred stuff against Muslims and u dont get any retaliation u keep on saying whatever u want and all goes un challenged in closed door discussions………………u know the purpose of creating blogs go and know it first
14. January 2009 - 9:44 PM
Z,
I am so happy that you are now liberated.Can you suggest a way so that we can be liberated from your co-religionists like kasav,kiyani,musharaff,terrorists,bomb blast merchants,dawood,deobandis,bukhari,MIM,mehbooba,mufti both in pak and also in bombay,delhi,UP,Rajasthan,Gujarat who are f****** our life.
Will pak or dubai take them.Can you sponsor a few.Surely a few more deserve ‘liberation’
14. January 2009 - 10:49 PM
Dear Zohail,
First of all, we (Indians) know about our country and system very well and we don’t need your ‘advice’ for making our motherland a better place .
First you think about your own country, make it as good and democratic as India and then come and give your ‘suggestions and advices’.
Sandeep,
I have seen very healthy discussions in your blog.
But I think your blog should not be a place where anybody can add his/her anti-Indian slogans. Let them find their own place for that.
So, please do remove the baseless and irrational anti-Indian commends
15. January 2009 - 2:38 AM
Your faith must be defended here: Jihad Watch. I WILL absolutely love to watch you defending your faith here. IF YOUR OBJECTIVE PRESS LOVING country has not already banned this site.
15. January 2009 - 8:29 AM
Pro-Israel demonstration in Florida
It was a show of unity and solidarity between various Hindu, Jewish and Christian groups which came and stood together against the nefarious design of Jihadi terrorists. The crowd was not to be deterred by a windy South Florida afternoon and lit candles and immersed flowers in the ocean in the memory of victims. A resolution adopted on this occasion urged the government of United States to intensify its campaign against global terrorism, particularly the one perpetrated by its so-called allies and others in the Indian sub-continent and declare such nations as Rogue nations.
Coalition of Community Organizations United against Global Terrorism
Americans Against Hate
Ramat Shalom
Christians and Jews United for Israel
Unitarian Universalist Congregation
World Wide Christian Center
Shiva Vishnu Temple
South Florida Hindu Temple
Jain Center Of South Florida
Shiva Mandir
Florida Arya Samaj
Sindhi Association of Florida
Florida Security Council
Shri Laxmi Narayan Temple
Palm Beach India Association
International Kashmir Federation (IKF)
Indian Religious and Cultural Center (IRCC)
United Hindu Front
World Hindu Council of America
15. January 2009 - 8:54 AM
Zohail – forced conversion of nuristanis
wiki
Until the 1890s, the region was known as Kafiristan (Persian: Land of the unbelievers) because of its inhabitants: the Nuristani, an ethnically distinctive people (numbering about 60,000) who practiced animism, polytheism and shamanism[2]. The region was conquered by Emir Abdur Rahman Khan in 1895-96 and the Nuristani were forcibly converted to Islam. The region was renamed Nuristan, meaning Land of the Enlightened, a reflection of the forced “enlightening” of the pagan Nuristani by the “light-giving” of Islam.
15. January 2009 - 8:56 AM
Zohail – moplah forced conversion in kerala
Swamiji’s fears proved to be correct when in August 1921, Moplahs started armed aggression against Hindus in Malabar and declared that the Dar-ul-Harab had been converted into Dar-ul-Islam. The Moplahs are a band of fanatic Muslims who have descended from the Arabs who settled in the Malabar Coast in about the 8th or 9th century A.D. and married mostly Indian wives. They had over the years acquired an unenviable notoriety for crimes perpetuated under the impulse of religious frenzy. Government property was destroyed. Europeans who did not succeed in escaping were murdered. A certain Ali Musliar was proclaimed Raja, Khilafat flags were flown, Ernad and Walluvanad were declared Khilafat kingdoms. The main brunt of the Moplah ferocity was borne, not by the government but by the Hindus were constituted the majority of the population. Massacres, forcible conversions, desecration of temples, foul outrages upon woman were perpetuated freely. To those who appealed to the Moplahs in the name of Gandhi they said, “Gandhi is a kafir, how can he be our leader?†Said Mrs Annie Besant, “Malabar has taught what Islamic rule means and we do not want to see another specimen of Khilafat Raj in Indiaâ€.
Gandhiji brushed the whole thing away by maintaining that “brave God-fearing Moplahs who were fighting for what they considered as religion, and in a manner, which they considered as religiousâ€. When a resolution condemning the Moplahs for their atrocities against the Hindus was brought before the subjects committee of Congress session, several amendments were proposed to water down the resolution. But even such a modest resolution was unacceptable to the Muslims. Maulana Hasrat Mohani was then known as a staunch nationalist but he, too, opposed the condemnation of Moplahs. He pleaded, “The Moplah country no longer remained Dar-ul-Aman but became Dar-ul-Harab and they suspected the Hindus of collusion with the British enemies of the Moplahs. Therefore, the Moplahs were right in presenting the Quran or sword to the Hindus. And if the Hindus became Mussalmans to save themselves from death, it was a voluntary change of faith and not forcible conversion.” At the annual session of the Khilafat Conference in 1923, Shaukat Ali, President of the session praised the Moplahs while conceding some Hindus had suffered at their hands, he said the while chapter was a closed book since they had a duty to the brave Moplahs. He announced that he and his brother Muhammad Ali would provide for the maintenance of one Moplah orphan.
15. January 2009 - 1:47 PM
Forced conversion is forbidden in Islam it is not allowed in any case, there are several verses in Quran regarding this issue, i have explained earlier, I dont car if Hasrat Mohani gave his support for the forced conversion he is not god he is a human being and he can go wrong or any body of this ulama can go wrong human error thing exist for all
Mr. G. Subramanium
as u used this protest was against JIHADI TERRORISTs this is the correct term used for the first time as far as Islam is not targeted all can protest it is their right but if u can see the list majority is Hindu Organisation for the cause of Jews and Christians but they never staged protest for innocent ppl Killed by Israel in Palestine this is a point to be noted here this event seems like organized by Hindu org more than Jews and Christians Am i right ? they dont see 1000 killed and 5000 injured Palestinians majority of them were innocent children and women
Important Fact:
If Israel is targeting Hamas Rocket Launching Sites as they say it is very easy as Rockets need a huge launching Pad which can easily be located thru any flying object and can easily be destroyed using a light war plane and for those ppl who claim that they can read the number plate of the car running on highway from satellite and who claim there targets can be destroyed with accuracy in inches this thing shows what there aims are
Main Objective:
Just to Widen the Jewish Occupied State and accomplish there objective of Greater Israel , we are against Zionism not Jews these are two different categories, Zionist believe in Greater Israel thing which Jews in majority oppose who use to live side by side to these Arab Muslim tribes 1400 years ago there was no war or massacre but occupying the land for minority and make the majority suffer thru force and bulldozing homes of innocents and make new colonies for Jews is not allowed and will meet some force they just have Stones or Rockets to retaliate them , in Lebanon War scenario was different Hizbollah was well armed they fired thousand of rockets in some days and fought back with force they are well armed but these Palestinians they are not that type in all of this conflict only like 300 rockets are fired at max in retaliation to this huge force of Evil mind…. but sure Allah will do the rest inshallah for the innocent………..
Ramat Shalom
Christians and Jews United for Israel
Unitarian Universalist Congregation
World Wide Christian Center
Shiva Vishnu Temple
South Florida Hindu Temple
Jain Center Of South Florida
Shiva Mandir
Florida Arya Samaj
Sindhi Association of Florida
Florida Security Council
Shri Laxmi Narayan Temple
Palm Beach India Association
International Kashmir Federation (IKF)
Indian Religious and Cultural Center (IRCC)
United Hindu Front
World Hindu Council of America
15. January 2009 - 1:57 PM
this is a routine of Israel every other day they go inside Gaza and kill innocent ppl and when they want with draw partially but the area is always controlled by Israel from both sides Sea and Land whenever they want they stop Food , medicine Fuel aid without any reason they dont even allow palestine to do trade freely to maintain the living there aim off course is to completely throw them into poverty and finish them off thru these tactics but they dont know the Game of the Lord Almighty …………time is near
15. January 2009 - 6:19 PM
z,
why dont you liberate a few more indian muslims?
Why are the saudis and kuwaitis licking american asses?
why are the kuwait sheikhs interested in maintaining harems than caring for iraqi children?
What are people doing in dubai?
why was zia-ul-haq so cruel to palestininans in Jordan?
Moron,we respect your faith in islam.The maximum islam can produce is a mentally retarded decent guy like you.And a trillion kasavs.Paricularly in Pakistan,when confronted with Hinduism which is far superior to your desert cult.Mo is at best second rate for us.At worst a pedophile.Do you get it?
16. January 2009 - 7:26 AM
Forced conversion in islam
The prophet forcibly converted arab pagans in
Taif, Mecca etc
after Sura 9:5
slay the kafirs
16. January 2009 - 2:14 PM
Saudis , kuwaitis and now Indians pls add
they are getting treatment of what they are doing, Allah dont help ppl who leave there Religion and start there own !!!
Mr. Dhimmi u are getting out of ur Limits pls be in them , avoid directly attacking the Prophet and Islam there is no comparison in Worshiping these 1000 Gods and One God there is a major difference and u r failed again in creating Hatred in my heart for Hinduism and again i forced my self of describing some of the stories from ur Mythological Gods and Books (several of them) thats why u r confused and frustrated i understand , but attacking religions thats why ur Population in this world is going down, attacking Religion and creating hatred between ppl , there is a way of peaceful discussion but indecent way which describe the religion u follow and the way u brought up is un accceptable……………
16. January 2009 - 2:17 PM
u will create thousands of Kasav’s or Kasab thru ur thoughts this is the approach u have to change to stop creating this menace !!! think
16. January 2009 - 2:53 PM
Zohail,
I have only one advice for you.
“Grow up”
Please contribute something usefull to this form rather than cribbing this and that and so called innocence of muslims.
I can understand that you have commanded by Allah not to use your mind but to follow a book written by 7th century arabian. This Mohammad guy must be very advanced for his time and space, (By bringing social justice and equality). But he is far behind from todays standards.
Standards of humanity cannot be derived from any of the religious books, They have to come from human conciousness. Look inside your conciousness if you belive you are human.
Come out of 7th century, If there is Allah in this world. He must have better things to do than controlling our actions by sending out commandments one in few milleniums. and unfortunately never again in future.
You believe that mohammad was true prophet. Do you have any proof. Did you saw him by yourself, or you believe in that because you ammi and abbu told you so.
There is enough proof that Islam has created lot of problems in this world.For once forget what was told by ammi and abbu when you were younger. Try to analyse things objectively.
May allah give you sense to you use your mind (If he exists at all)
16. January 2009 - 2:59 PM
Sandeep, I repeat my suggestion for the sudarshana-treatment for the shishupAla.
16. January 2009 - 3:51 PM
Mr. Dharamvir !!
People are using there mind more as compared to past including Muslims so they are easily mis guided by using there mind much and getting a wrong meaning of Holy Books thats why all these tragic events are occurring in this world and thats why it is close to an end. This is what destroys the world everything bad is occurring in this last century bcoz PPL like u started using ur mind in Religion instead of what their purpose was………. u are right I am alhamdolillah Muslim by birth but Islam says dont follow the God of ur Father and Mother if it fails the Basic characteristics of God. and i feel Allah will help me if i have desire for the truth……………. but wait am i talking to a Man who does not believe in God at All then it will not apply
16. January 2009 - 4:14 PM
Sandeep, I repeat my suggestion for the sudarshana-treatment for the shishupAla.
Mr. Sarvesh u dont have courage to speak in English so u came in Sanskrit …………. not strange to me i am use to. in this case u are the shishupala with multiple hands and legs infact (Retard) so u really need it and this Sudarshana Chakra will be coming soon to all out there who deny The One and Only God…….. and worship hundreds of Gods in place of One………
16. January 2009 - 4:23 PM
Mr. Dharmvir !
You believe that mohammad was true prophet. Do you have any proof. Did you saw him by yourself, or you believe in that because you ammi and abbu told you so.
so counter questions for u
How u believe that all these over 200 Gods and Godessess exist did u saw them by yourselves ???
My answer !!!
I have only one Book and One Allah that i Believe in thats why the chance of error does not exist if Mohammad PBUH was a messenger or not it is in various places written even in different Religions as Christianity Bible it is written about him telling about “One messenger of God that will come in future” and his characteristics and attested by various religions if my parents have given me a Religion that is weak and illogical then it should have faded away from my heart…….but this i snot the case ……………..Allah Knows Best
16. January 2009 - 4:50 PM
Zohail,
I don’t normally moderate discussions but you persist in your foolhardiness by posting nothing of value. If you find Mohammad and Allah and Islam the best for you, good for you. But don’t expect others to follow it or try to stop them from questioning Islam. Moreover, increasingly, your comments have taken a vitriolic color and tone.
May I PLEASE ask you for a final time to desist this form of commenting? If I will have to ban your comment, you’ll down in the 8-year old history of this blog as the first one to get that treatment. Please don’t force me to do that.
16. January 2009 - 4:58 PM
Zohial,
I don’t blindly believe in 200 Gods. If God comes and tells me to kill and my concisousness tell me not to. I will listen to my concisouness unless God manipulates my Mind( Assuming he is real and possess power of manipulation).
So answer to your question is I don’t believe in 200 gods. I believe in nature and there are more than 200 forces in this nature. for example Sun is a reality, you can see him if you want. we worship him beacause he is giver of life. How ? To know this check 5th standard text book.
Now counter question to you: ” will you kill kafirs wherever you find them as told in quran?”. Will you listen to your god blindly ?
Zohail Said : “People are using there mind more as compared to past including Muslims so they are easily mis guided by using there mind much and getting a wrong meaning of Holy Books thats why all these tragic events are occurring in this world and thats why it is close to an end”
So you are saying that we humans shouldn’t use our mind but believe in what is told to us as correct by our parents. Zohail you can start a new religion .just tell your children about it and they will start believing it. and I can bet you they will not get rid of it in their lifetime, if you are intellegent enough.
Your This statment is proof itself that islam is an oppresive religion. Whenever the followers of this religion aquires power, they try to shut down everybodies mind and free will as they have shut down their own. and the whole conflict starts here itself. Where Religious muslims are preventing non belivers from using their mind and forcing their 7th century belief. I can bet you will behave in the same way if you had power.
Islam has a very bloody history. It could be because of misreading of quran or overreading of it. Islam has been killing innocent people everywhere. Muslims need to come out of illusion of “religion of peace”.
zohail You are living an illusion. Nobody can bring you out.
I have a question for Fellow Non muslims. How can we deal with people like zohial in real life. You can see the using logic is a waste of time with people like him. Is organisations like Bajrang dal or RSS for matter is only way ?
Do they only understand the langauge of force and voilence ?
I seek comments from all of you Except from zohail
16. January 2009 - 5:00 PM
Z,
I am impressed by your faith in islam.Friends,we have to give that to Z.
Z,There is only one GOD.The Vedic Scriptures declare “EKAM SAT,Viprah Bahudah Vadanti”.The Truth/GOD is one,seers call it differently.
There is a wonderful song by Lataji “Iswara Tero Naam/Allah Tero Naam.Iswara is your name.Allah is your name.God is beyond names and forms.Do you think a muslim can disentangle GOD from the name Allah.
The Vedic religion is about inner quest.The standards of the rishis on truth,self-control were much higher.Look at Pak,Saudis.Islam has always used the sword.It is not some belief,but to live by the ideals of Universal Religion that is more important.
Islam will always be more appealing in this kali age.It is based more on fanaticism,less on reflection.Also it gives more scope for sexual depravity.
The ideals of austerity in Hinduism puts it at a disadvantage.Islam in india is the religion of marauding invaders,so rape/plunder puts it at an advantage.Look at porki army/kasav.But this is not 1092 AD.
As i discussed more,theoretically a brahmana should control himself.He should have only a tuft of hair in his head.He should practice momogamy.
A muslim is cosmetic.He will wear a cap and have a goatee.He will have four wives at a time.
The difference is so clear.A brahmana should bathe in the morning.A muslim has just to clean his hands.
A brahmana boy has to take bath after masturbation.(This is puerile,but cant help it).A muslim can clean his penis after intercourse and go to prayers.
In vedic religion anushtana(austerity) is important.In Islam,preaching with sword is important,
Hinduism can adapt and renew itself.Islam is fixated on 7th century arabia.
Z,you win because i fail by my standards.While you are exemplary by your standards.
But India as a political entity is not going to fail because a million flowers are blooming and the creative energies of a billion people are on the move.
16. January 2009 - 7:01 PM
“If I will have to ban your comment, you’ll down in the 8-year old history of this blog as the first one to get that treatment. Please don’t force me to do that.”
Keep watching sandeep, you’ll be forced to do it. It is going to be his way of attaining an online martyrdom, thus taking his first baby steps towards a place in heaven.
16. January 2009 - 8:13 PM
Zohail you have stumped me completely . All my three wickets are up in the air. I have never known a man who could be so very brilliantly stupid. so far all your arguments are deeply flawed. you quote quran when it suits the argument you have put forward. Bang on the drum of Islamic tolerance. However when someone shreds it to pieces by citing other contradictory verses in Quran then according to you that is not true interpretation. Are you by any chance suggesting the that Quran could be linguisticaly flawed. that is to say, it does not mean what it says. If that is true then we have succeeded in sowing the seed of doubt in your head, you may not admit it now. Correct me if I am wrong Quran is word of all knowing , all mighty allah and cannot be chanllanged by mere mortals.
“believing blindly in 200 gods”
Zohail, you fool, have not heard of symbolism. It is integeral part of psychy of humans regardless of their belief. All faiths have one form of symbolism or other. Are you seriously telling me that, kissing a stone will show you the ladder to Allah? Trying to pray in enclosed space without any sense of direction does not bring Mecca to direction you are facing. It is symbolic , idol worship of highest order. By the way Haj was pre-islamic ritual pagan Arabs performed to worship there Gods.
let me ask you question you nitwit. Will you marry a 6 year old girl and then consumate the marriage while she is still a child? If the answer is yes then you are a paedophile if the answer is no then explain why would not you follow the deeds of Mohammed? Is he not the most wisest, purest and the ideal human blessed by Allah.
16. January 2009 - 9:55 PM
Sandeep – Please do not ban Zohail
Let me try to prove my case.
1) There is a myth among lot of people in India that the problems with attributed to Islam is not because of Islam but because of illiteracy, poverty…. Everytime any attack happens by the soldiers of Islam first comment among seculars is “These are sokme fanatics who are mis-quoting Islam and religion of peace” I assume Zohail is well educated his representation of Islam is correct. The best part is I do not see any difference between what the others say and what Zohail says. Both have a supremacist attitude towards Islam. So Zohail can be a good myth-buster.
2)Devoid of logical reasoning – The first thing a muslim will do when confronted with any question is consult the quran and Zohail is no different. The answer may be how much ever far from logic but quran has the final word. Let me give you examples from personal experience. Recently an article was published in expressbuzz by Seema Mustapha blaming Israel for the Gaza crisis. She root causes the problem to Israelis being the land grabbers from original inhabitants who are the Palestinians. I commented saying that what year is the boundary to decide about originality of the inhabitant. If we look at 600 AD there were no muslims in the area which is currently Israel. (Islam was not even born) And one person by name Irfan consults the quran and comes with the theory that jews were descendents of Isaac and muslims Ismael and so they are brothers and hence they were there even in 600 AD. (Maybe I can say they provide sort of comic relief on the blog.)
3) Motivation to know more – If not for zohail I would have never known the truth about Black September and involvement in the massacre of Palestinians by the Pakistanis and Jordanians.
So do not ban Zohail
16. January 2009 - 10:39 PM
Zohail, try this website , read what they have to say, open your eyes. Guess you being crtitical of your scriture will not make any lesser Muslim.
http://islam-watch.org/be
17. January 2009 - 10:28 AM
http://www.canhindu.com/
Canadian hindus demonstrate in favor of israel
17. January 2009 - 12:00 PM
@Sudhir:
I fully endorse what Sudhir has said. Let us NOT ban Zohail, but encourage him to voice out his views-right or wrong. It may benefit him, it may not, but it shall certainly improve our own clarity, etc.
17. January 2009 - 5:55 PM
Zohail,
I don’t normally moderate discussions but you persist in your foolhardiness by posting nothing of value. If you find Mohammad and Allah and Islam the best for you, good for you. But don’t expect others to follow it or try to stop them from questioning Islam. Moreover, increasingly, your comments have taken a vitriolic color and tone.
Mr. Sandeep how many times in 8 years someone fought this hard to remove the label of Terrorism from Islam this is what we need to dis own this Extremists from our Religion,
I have never asked anyone to Stop making Questions regarding Islam and Prophet but if they leave the Decent way then first it is ur right to stop such ppl who target Religion but i am sorry to say u seem biased to me after that if u dont exercise ur Power, i have every right to stop ppl from making harsh comments on my Book and my Prophet
Have u read the comments of all ppl i have answered ? and the way i have answered them ?
Holding a different view is Ok but criticizing others thru foul language and saying that i know everything abt u and u r mad Fanatic Extremist, brain dead etc………. doesn’t seems right , extracting verses of Books and quoting them without knowing the meaning is not right!!
U should moderate in a manner that is acceptable to all and be un -biased , and should insist to be in the limit of Topic for which the page is created, I am not here to make everyone on this blog a Muslim But i can answer questions in the manner they are asked, who is wrong the Question doing person or the answering guy……… i have exercised utter restraint as u see my all posts on all pages and only one thing i tried Pls do not relate Religion to Terrorism for this u want to ban me its ok for me as it holds no value for me !!!! Kill ppl but u cant kill thoughts!!! If everybody says one thing then where is the other side of the picture it is not complete without it !!
thanking all who have supported me and to all who have not supporting my thoughts it doesn’t bother me as i am not that type which try to impose thoughts then whats the difference between me and them
just for ur info if u have not seen some comments
On 01.10.09 jai says:
All muslims have two faces as elephants have 2 type of teeth, one for display and another for eating
On 01.13.09 RS says:
I am astound, flabbergasted. Dear Zohail you got to be monumentaly STUPID, STUPID AND STUPID. Has Islam made you such a hair brained individual that you cannot listen to logic? Guys do not easte time . you cannot change ass to a horse
#
On 01.14.09 dhimmi says:
Z,
I am so happy that you are now liberated.Can you suggest a way so that we can be liberated from your co-religionists like kasav,kiyani,musharaff,terrorists,bomb blast merchants,dawood,deobandis,bukhari,MIM,mehbooba,mufti both in pak and also in bombay,delhi,UP,Rajasthan,Gujarat who are f****** our life.
Will pak or dubai take them.Can you sponsor a few.Surely a few more deserve ‘liberation’
01.15.09
Mr. DHIMMI says
Moron,we respect your faith in islam.The maximum islam can produce is a mentally retarded decent guy like you.And a trillion kasavs.Paricularly in Pakistan,when confronted with Hinduism which is far superior to your desert cult.Mo is at best second rate for us.At worst a pedophile.Do you get it?
and their are couple of comments like this but u dont see them and never thought of warning them or stop them it shows u r biased i think that multiple gods stuff have more bothered u as i took the same tone for the very first time as various ppl took on this blog many times , u should make a message here Avoid attacking Relgion !! and Be on the Topic !! this is what needed from ur side threatening me is waste of effort , as so much will remain un challenged and one sided and un answered !!!
17. January 2009 - 7:16 PM
Oooooh i am a victim, muslim invaders and hindus pillaged my rich hindu country, blah blah blah. Just as will durant said
“A civilization is not conquered from without until it is destroyed from within.”
Accept the fact, stop whining.
17. January 2009 - 7:21 PM
Zohail-o-Akbar,
Any comments on my last comment?
18. January 2009 - 9:49 AM
Zohail’s selective memory and copy paste skills seem to be in excellent order.
18. January 2009 - 1:43 PM
“A civilization is not conquered from without until it is destroyed from within.â€
Tell that to Hindus of Pakistan and Bangladesh. How long do you think it will take for these Muslim bigots to “destroy Hindu civilisation from within”?
These Muslims are unable to create anything refined or advanced, but are great at torching, burning and destroying existing civilisations. They are just a non-stop killing machine that has never contributed anything positive to the world. All they have is a visceral hatred for everyone who is not a member of their criminal gang.
18. January 2009 - 7:31 PM
Dear Sandeep,
Firstly, I’d like to congratulate you on a great website. It should be shown to every young Indian and everyone commenting and reading here should post links to this site (as to other Voice of Dharma sites such as Arun Shourie, Koenraad Elst, Jihad Watch, frontpagemag, etc) as I have done.
I just wanted to say that while the content of the site is excellent, the comments section is degenerated because you have allowed certain Pakistanis to post their nonsensical arguments here. I have come to obtain insights from the various readers, but I am finding it annoying to scroll down having to avoid the long copy paste posts by Zuhail. Please do think about blocking the person in question and other such commenters.
Thanks and regards,
New Reader of your site
19. January 2009 - 11:43 AM
I think it is about time to figure out whether it is constructive to keep people like Zohail spewing their hatred and propaganda here. For one thing, when you wrestle in the mid with a pig you will get dirty even if you try to stay on top. Secondly, I find this an excellently rich blog and it is helping me alot to get a better feel and thinking about genuine problems and challenges in India and this is too precious for tools like SSohail to derail. Finally, call me a fanatic or a bigot tainted by bad experience, but I can’t stand muslims (sorry to say so, I really am). Would never hurt them or force my will upon them, but I am very distrustful of any, whoever it is and never get close to them. I have tried to keep my mind open, but the drop that overfilled the cup was when I received death threats simply for being Norwegian, just because some Danish person drew some cartoons of the false prophet. On the other hand, that’s another (and valid) excuse never to deal with muslims, but that’s another story. Also, I have seen my own homeland sink into the mud the last ten-fifteen years because our leaders have rolled over to pakis and the future is NOT pretty. Therefore, I don’t see the point of debating this anymore as long as there are SO many bigger challenges AND opportunities for India the next decade..
I spend about 2-3 hours a day researching Indian history and philosophy from the days before Ashoka to the partitioning. Being a slow learner, my hindi is (so far) pathetic and my punjabi isn’t much better, despite being married to one. My backgrond in history, philosophy, military intelligence and medicine have given me several opportunites over and over again to meet the brightest and clearest thinking people in the world and whenver I meet people from India, I know I am dealing with people that would mostly be considered sheer geniuses if they lived in other countries.
The next 25 years is the moment of opportunity for the Indian nation. It is likely that India and China will settle and become great friends within the next ten years and that will automatically lead to the Chinese ditching the Pakis. Likewise, Russia will back India in international conflicts. This means the USA and it’s toothless tools in Europe will be totally marginalized and loose any future bearings on how India fares with it’s foreign policy. As soon as China and India becomes friends, or even get more heavy-handed diplomatic exchanges, the pakis wil become very worried and there is already signs that this is happening. What can the Pakis do? Launch some nukes? Maybe, but it will doom their future even faster. India can survive such a conflict, but there is NO WAY Pakistan can.
The demographics in India has never been more optimal either. The next ten years will have an immensely productive workforce and just the number of Indian docs alone that live and work in the US is STAGGERING and if only 10% of those will return back to India within the next 10-15 years (likely a conservative estimate), it will say alot about how conditions are changing. Already there are many Europeans that move to India for job opportunites, me included. This is likely to happen en masse as the economic growth keeps up.
Finally, what happened in Punjab in the 80′s, that our eminent peacemaker Sohail tried to use as a wedge in this debate is a big black travesty on modern Indian history. My wife had several family members hurt and one relative assassinated (a politician), so there is for sure some resentment there. However, having said that, this is not an issue that should divide India anymore. Also, who knows how much involvement the pakis had in this. Surely, it enabled them to destroy Kashmir by building up their military and intelligence system at the same time. I never grew up in India and do not feel I have the right to tell anyone what to think about it, but to me it is an issue that should be settled for good, not through mandates, but through airing of the past.
If India and it’s people can unite, keep up their excellent work ethics, intelligence, tolerance and inovation we are talking about a future nation that will dwarf the British empire in the future. There is NOTHING that can stop India from achieving this except Indians themselves.
Once a new Ashoka arrives, things will happen on their own momentum and I want me and my family to experience it all from day one.
Please consider dumping junk like SSohail from here. Your blog is too important to waste on such human garbage and constructive debate between people that care about India is what we need more of, no matter how heated it gets. Please listen to me and open your minds to settling with China on philosophical, ideological and strategic grounds. Both nations would prosper tremendously and there is too much to gain not doing so.
Ariel
19. January 2009 - 1:05 PM
Ms Desigyrl
Y dont u say stop Muslims from commenting on this blog, pls say it openly u r gettin shy or afraid i dont know , U ppl dont like counter attack i think ………..
19. January 2009 - 1:08 PM
as to other Voice of Dharma sites such as Arun Shourie, Koenraad Elst, Jihad Watch, frontpagemag, etc) as I have done
i think u like Anti – Islamic stuff more than Peace between humanity it shows ur mission and thinking , Pls dont waste ur writing skills and energy in this hatred stuff, be constructive not Destructive…………..Regards
19. January 2009 - 2:00 PM
Yes Mr. Dhimmi atleast u accepted that there is something common in these two religions as God is One , i have no problem in saying God instead of Allah as far as it is the name of One and Only Almighty as u said.
secondly again i would like to correct some mis conceptions in ur mind as i practice this religion and i know more what is compulsory in it and what is not below my corrections in ur comments:
“A muslim is cosmetic.He will wear a cap and have a goatee.He will have four wives at a time”.(No compulsion in Islam for Cap or Goatee (Beard ) whatever u call it and Four Wives thing i have already explained it was just allowed to stop the number of marriages keeping of wives at one time(as Christianity dont have any cap on this number thats why it is restricted to 4 by Allah but it does not mean that it is compulsory in Islam)
The difference is so clear.A brahmana should bathe in the morning.A muslim has just to clean his hands.(No wrong cleanliness is strictly stressed in various verses of Quran and infact said (Cleanliness is Half of ur Faith)
“A brahmana boy has to take bath after masturbation.(This is puerile,but cant help it)”.
A muslim can clean his penis after intercourse and go to prayers.(Totally wrong Mr. Dhimmi one can not even go near Prayers if u are Drunk How can u expect Islam directing the Followers for such a thing . U show me one place where it is said by Allah to do so pls clear up ur mis conceptions, Masturbation is infact not allowed in Islam it is known as wasting ur sperm which Allah has forbidden and it is called an ugly act and after lawful intercourse or night fall it is strictly necessary to clean one self thoroughly (procedure is described which includes three times cleaning of ur body and genitals) and after that u can think of Prayers other wise u cant even enter the Mosque it is a Big Sin)
“In vedic religion anushtana(austerity) is important.In Islam,preaching with sword is important”
(I can only say if Islam was spread with Sword than India should be Islamic Republic and World also 75 % but this is not the case )
Hinduism can adapt and renew itself.Islam is fixated on 7th century arabia.
(So u also think that Jews (Torah ) and Christians (Bible is also out dated as it is old but that Religion which is set according to the human and new age and constantly changing verses are better for us.So Human will become the Creator of Religion. Human who is reproduced with tiny amount of impure water becomes Responsible to lead his life according to his will. this is what ppl are trying these days thats why so much Bad is happening in the World. Again i will say it is not a text Book. So u think Allah or God has created or sent something for u that is out dated and that easily gets out dated with the passage of time , Allah sure have destroyed such a thing and sent some thing new if this is the case but no Nobody was able to generate a similar verse as Quran in the history but they tried hard and still trying)
u have every right to project and present ur Religion but dont have that right to mislead ppl about others. After so much time Mr. Dhimmi u have at least acknowledged something that is common and this is the way of killing hatred and peace among humanity which i am here for!!!
19. January 2009 - 2:50 PM
Well Said Mr. Ariel Sharon (Late)
“when you wrestle in the mud with a pig you will get dirty even if you try to stay on top”
This is what i am doing right now commenting on ur thoughts and getting dirty,
There is some agenda hidden behind ur so called constructive thoughts about India and that is to create Hatred , Hatred and Hatred between Religions , u left yours and forcing others to do the same, i cannot indulge much with u bcoz i dont feel like getting more dirty…………in the mud with a………
19. January 2009 - 3:00 PM
Sandeep Pls dont allow such posters like Ariel to use this blog to spill there hatred and write in indecent manner he have right to express his creative thoughts about India but have no right to create Hatred between Hindus and Muslims and attack Religions which is in fact not good for India finally and it shows how much he cares about India……… and his all thoughts are based on personal experience and reflects his personal Aims. but attack attracts counter attack in the same manner……….
19. January 2009 - 3:55 PM
Dear Zohail,
I am not against any religion, but I like Hinduism. I love Hinduism because it allows me to think, it allows me to find god in my own way.
It says god is colorless orderless and formless (Brahmam) which is omnipresent. At the same time Hinduism doesn’t prevent me from perceiving god in human attire. It allows me to consider Mother, Father and Teacher (mathah, pithah, guru, daivam)before god due to logical reasons. Above all Hinduism says every individual is form of Brahma (try to read about Advaitha philosophy) and the effort should be to realize that fact (“aham brahmasmi”). As far as I know, Hinduism says there is only one way to reach god, through knowledge, which makes you to realize yourself. So the natural thought process is built into Hinduism.
If you are arguing for peace and harmony , don’t ever support organizations or ideas which suppress others thoughts.
You can say that “I don’t want to think”, but when you say that others should not think as well, that is going to result in conflicts. Assuming that god has created everything, why do you want to fight for him? Do you seriously feel that he needs your help to protect himself? Are you sure
that you are not trying to protect your organization rather than protecting god’s will? Or do you feel that you are something special to god?
(I am just trying to have a better understanding of the world. Pls help me by answering my questions)
19. January 2009 - 4:47 PM
Mr. Ravi i totally agree with ur below statement
Thanx first for enlightening me about Hinduism , as u have every right to present ur thoughts and Religion but problem starts when someone compare religions and start extracting verses from Holy Books and try hard to de grade or falsify others this is un healthy or use foul language which is also not upto the standard , there is a tone of decency which u adopted and i am use to this , i hate and practice utter restraint when someone carry out things mentioned above.
It says god is colorless orderless and formless which is omnipresent same i say but Formless means cant take any form ,without any form, He is present everywhere means he sees all what is performed behind close doors and hearts and know all which we hide and this is Islam’s definition of Omni Present and Formless but there is not much difference between u and me.
And i am not here to protect God (Who is the Biggest Protector of All)How can i do this Job he is the one who protect u and me i am not up to this standard nor any human being is up to , what i am trying here is to clear some mis conceptions some friends here have in mind about Islam i am no one to impose my thoughts over anybody my Religion does not allow me to do so.. Quran says “there is no Compulsion in Religion”
Nor i am trying to protect my organizations or the organizations who perform heinous acts of Terror in the name of Islam i truly stand with u in this matter..
and finally i am not special to God i hope i could be ( by performing acts which pleases him most actually)
We are directed by our Lord to present Islam through peaceful manner and carry out this message to all we can reach but remain strictly peaceful as we believe no Prophet will come after Final Prophet Muhammad PBUH so it is the duty of every muslim to pass the message to all brothers on earth………
19. January 2009 - 5:31 PM
While distributing the captives, Muhammad recognised al-Nadr b. al-Harith, a Quraysh poet whom the Jihadists had captured. While Muhammad was at Mecca, al-Nadr composed verses that were superior to the Qur’an. Muhammad was greatly enraged by al-Nadr’s compositions. As alluded to in verse 8:31 (Dashti, p.47), Al-Nadr b. al-Harith also criticized Qur’anic verses by uttering that they (the verses) were only fables of the ancients, that the Meccans had heard similar verses before. Muhammad had no kindness for al-Nadr. To quench his thirst for revenge, the Prophet of mercy gave orders that the hapless al-Nadr be killed. Ali carried out Muhammad’s order by beheading al-Nadr at Saffra, right in front of Muhammad. This was the tolerance Allah’s best creation had for his opponents who dared to challenge him intellectually. Rodinson40 writes that Muhammad was extremely sensitive to intellectual attack on him. Having finished his critic, a satisfied Muhammad now gave order to march ahead for Medina.
Two days later, the Muslim army stopped at Irqu’l-Zabya, midway between Badr and Medina. Here Allah’s Apostle wanted to extinguish further, his lust for blood and retribution. Uqbah b. Abi Muyat, another prisoner, whose daughter was married to Abu Sufyan b. Harb’s son, ‘Amr b. Abi Sufyan, was ordered out for execution. The ‘offender’ pleaded for mercy in the name of his little daughter. But Muhammad had no mercy for him. What did Uqba do to deserve such a terrible punishment from the Prophet of compassion and kindness? Muhammad claimed that Uqba tormented him when he preached his religion of love and compassion (Islam) at Ka’ba. Without showing even an atom of pity or kindness to his fallen foe, Muhammad ordered the killing of Uqba. This is how it is described by Ibn Ishaq: “When the apostle ordered him to be killed ‘Uqba said, ‘But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?’ ‘Hell’, he said, and ‘Asim b. Thabit b. Abul-Aqlah al-Ansari killed him according to what Abu ‘Ubayda b. Muhammad b. ‘Ammar b. Yasir told me.†Some biographers note that it was Ali who killed Uqba.
On the killing of those two prisoners, Rodinson (Rodinson, p.168) writes, “On the other hand he gave free rein to his anger against two men who had attacked him on an intellectual level. They had studied Jewish and Persian sources and had asked him awkward questions. They had scoffed at him and his divine messages. They could look for no mercy.â€
==
According to Sa’id bin Yahya al-Umawi, Abdallah bin Abi Hadrad, who said: I was among Khalid’s horsemen that day. One of their young men, he was among the prisoners, his hands were tied to his neck with a rope, and some women were gathered not far from him—said to me, “Young man!†“Yes,†I said. He said: “Will you take hold of this rope and lead me by it to these women, so that I can entrust them with a needful matter of business? Then you can bring me back to do as you all please with me.†I said, “By God, what you have asked me is a small thing.†I took hold of his rope and led him by it until I had brought him to stand near them. He said, Farewell, Hubayshah, as life runs out!â€
After the condemned man met his sweetheart, he recited a poem for her and the woman replied, “And you—may you be made to live ten and seven years uninterrupted and eight right after them!â€
Then the Jihadist took him away and cut off his head. The distraught woman ran to her beheaded lover, threw herself down on him and she kept kissing him until she died beside him.
19. January 2009 - 6:03 PM
Dear Zohail,
You are smoothly pushing lots of things under the carpet.
I believe as long as one do not realize the fallacies in his/her ideas he/she wont be able to correct himself.
I said my religion gives me the freedom to think ( to the extend that I can consider Mother, Father and Teacher above god)
So naturally it doesn’t conflict with anybody else’s belief.
Does your religion/organization allows its members that freedom (to compare anything with god)?
If you say that Islam allows all kind of freedom, Can you justify its History of destroying Hindu temples to end idol worship?
Or do you think that History was written to defame Islam and god?
I feel Humans are different from animals because we are blessed with the ability to think. If we should stop thinking beyond
any scripts/books why do you think god has given us the brain to think?
If somebody is intolerant to facts and is not ready to reach logical conclusions, problem is with him rather than with the facts.
I am not against any religion doesn’t mean that I am blind to facts. You admit that you are intolerant to criticism against Holy Books.
Don’t you think that this same intolerance is turning into violence at times?
Why don’t you take criticism with arguments which are logical?
I admit that one should not slander others ideas but I don’t think you should stop others to reason out your belief.
I feel there is a difference between SLANDER and REASONING.
If you feel that facts spreads hatred, there is no other go!
If you say “We teach people lots of things and we are NOT responsible for what people do”, that wont solve the problems.
Do you feel that there is no relation between Islam and extremism?
If NO, I don’t think I should waste my time (neither you)
If YEAS, do you feel that “it is just a strange coincidence”?
19. January 2009 - 6:04 PM
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4
Hadith 233:
Narrated ‘Aisha: I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh1/bh1_232.htm
Hadith 232:
Narrated ‘Amr bin Maimun: I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with semen. He said that ‘Aisha had said, “I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah’s Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water spots were still visible on them.
19. January 2009 - 6:31 PM
Mr. Amarnath!
What actually happened 1400 years ago in Al nadr case i really dont know but u explain and believe 100% as u were there u saw it with ur own eyes Mr. Amarnath u rely on false and forged sources and deriving meanings which suit ur purpose but this is not helping here. U are trying ur best to project a negative image of true prophet of Allah PBUH but u cant succeed……….
19. January 2009 - 6:40 PM
go ask the Mawlana at your madarsa
19. January 2009 - 7:11 PM
Mr. Ravi
Practicing ur religion strictly is Extremism then sure i am doing it
NO in Islam u cant compare Humans no matter how good they are or how much they have value for u , One cant compare any human or animal or any creature to the One and Only Creator Almighty. how can u compare the Creature and the Creator, Dont u see difference in that ?
Dont u see God has given u brain to think about other things related to this world and life after death instead of comparing
and thinking too much about God Himself and finding faces of God in this Universe.
I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with semen. He said that ‘Aisha had said, “I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah’s Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water spots were still visible on them.
that does not mean that Allah’s messenger does not took a bath or he has not cleaned himself before going to prayers, but when if clothes are touched with semen u can always perform a procedure of cleaning with them will u set fire to those clothes after such incident or u clean and re use them ?
i am unable to understand what are u trying to achieve by wandering and reading hadiths, for ur info Hadiths are not Quran we do see them sometimes if we dont know how to perform basic things in life but i dont truly believe in authenticity of all hadiths available nor i can endorse them but above one sounds ok to me nothing wrong in it!
19. January 2009 - 7:29 PM
“Practicing ur religion strictly is Extremism then sure i am doing it”
You are absolutely right. You are not to be blamed for the bigotry, but your religion, as you are only following its manual.
from The Manual: “…But when the sacred months are passed away, kill the idolaters wherever ye may find them; and take them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in every place of observation…” IX.4 http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/sbe06/009.htm
===
Back to the Holy Prophet.
Bukhari Hadith 4:143
Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said to Abu Talha, “Choose one of your boy servants to serve me in my expedition to Khaibar.” So, Abu Talha took me letting me ride behind him while I was a boy nearing the age of puberty. I used to serve Allah’s Apostle when he stopped to rest… Then we reached Khaibar; and when Allah enabled him to conquer the Fort (of Khaibar), the beauty of Safiya bint Huyai bin Akhtab was described to him. Her husband had been killed while she was a bride. So Allah’s Apostle selected her for himself and took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad-AsSahba,’ where her menses were over and he took her for his wife…
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh4/bh4_144.htm
19. January 2009 - 7:33 PM
In true dhimmi style,i have to retract some of my offensive statements and conclude that in my humble opininon,you are sincere in his faith.
I hope that you also understand that Hinduism is not worship of 200 gods,but is a sincere approach to God/Truth.There are multiple paths in hinduism.
I hope you understand that are sincere hindus who have fought with british and wrestled with modernity for a better world as they are confronted with challenges.
I hope you understand india is in a difficult neighbourhood with porkis and chinis.India has had to face the cheap indian muslim league of Jinnah supported by Britain and US.(ie support for Porkis).
Perhaps it is too much to expect you to understand that or the fact the average hindu is ready to give the other party more latitude than your faith.aLSO THE hindu is capable of seeing bothsides and ready to look things abstractly than a muslim.But then that burden is ours to carry.An average muslim is more vengeful,violent and bigoted.I pray Iswara takes care while we remain vigilant.Ofcourse Allah will protect you if you are righteous.
DHIMMI OF THE YEAR JAN 2009
19. January 2009 - 8:06 PM
Dear Zohail,
Probably you don’t want to answer my questions directly.
Practicing your belief is not extremism, but if you force everybody else to practice your belief then it becomes extremism.
When you want to physically destroy everything which are not in match with your views then it becomes extremism.
I am putting my question again.
Do you justify the destruction of Hindu temples because idol worship was not allowed in Islam?
Don’t say that it was not done by Islamic believers.
If you are trying to escape questions with illogical answers, mind you, your belief is going to tumble before humans who are ready to accept logical conclusions.
Now, you already admitted that god is omnipresent.
Then what is wrong in seeing him everywhere? (whether it is Temple, Mosque, Church, Trees, Stones or virtually on anything)
Is it not illogical to say that “God is everywhere but you should not try to find him where ever you want to “)
>> Dont u see God has given u brain to think about other things related to >> this world and life after death instead of comparing and thinking too >> much about God Himself and finding faces of God in this Universe.
This is the whole problem. Don’t try to restrict somebody’s thoughts saying that “God said this or that”.
Leave god’s decision to him. Don’t try to be interpreter of god.
And don’t try to be the decision maker for god.
What is the reason to say that you should not try to find god?
If god has given me the ability to search him what is the reason for not using that?
Or is it like believers of all other religions are created by evil and only Islam is created by god.
And the Evil is trying to find god and the defenders of god is trying to prevent that!
20. January 2009 - 1:47 AM
What was this fetish Mohammad had for young girls? He was humping a 9-year-old girl, if I am not wrong. Then he used to kill people in war and immediately take their wives to his tent. I can only see in him a sex-crazed and violent old man who was punising the whole world because his mother abandoned him in his childhood.
20. January 2009 - 9:03 AM
faithfreedom.org
Karin in Saudi Arabia
Najat, a young Saudi woman who was almost twenty, had been born deaf and dumb. One day she went out to one of Riyadh’s largest shopping centers with one of her younger brothers, Taleb. He dropped her off and went to do an errand; he planned to return in an hour to fetch her.
Najat was able to make her purchases in less than an hour, so she went outside and stood in front of a large shop window so her brother could see her. To pass the time, she examined the beautifully decorated display.
A “morality†police car cruised slowly past. The muttawas drive large, late-model, air-conditioned vehicles. They are equipped with a fridge for refreshments, radio equipment, binoculars, and handcuffs. A sheet of tinted glass divides the interior into two compartments; in the rear section, women are transported. The muttawas drive around high-traffic streets and open city squares, watching every move made by both men and women. In this case, they took notice of Najat. The binoculars were removed from the glove compartment, they parked, and she was closely observed.
“Look at that. There’s a whore waiting for her lover,†said one of them with a smile, beginning to smell prey, and handed the binoculars to another muttawa.
“She’s acting innocent. How cute. Just wait, little whore, we’re going to snap you up.â€
Then Taleb pulled up in his car. Because she was engrossed in examining a pretty dress in the window, and because she was deaf, he got out of the car and went to her side. A light tap on her shoulder signaled that he was there and ready to take her home.
The muttawas were sure that their suspicions had just been confirmed. She simply had to be a whore. Quickly they scrambled out of their car and ran at full speed up to Taleb and Najat. Without saying anything, without even a question, both of them were seized and dragged toward the detention vehicle. Najat couldn’t scream, but she was holding her purse in her right hand, and managed to use it to hit a muttawa in the face. In revenge, he kicked her in the backside. Taleb defended himself as well, shouting, “What is this? Who are you? Leave me and my sister alone!â€
Taleb was punched two times in the stomach. He passed out. The muttawas tossed him into the men’s detention compartment. Najat was pushed violently into the women’s section, and the door was slammed shut. She beat her hands against the door and drummed her feet on the floor. The muttawas relaxed in the speeding car and laughed, saying that she sounded like a wild animal that had just been ensnared.
The muttawas drove their booty to a holding station. Taleb was a diabetic, and when he became angry or upset, he often lapsed into unconsciousness. Since he remained unconscious at the police station, they transferred him to a hospital.
Najat was interrogated… but how? She could neither hear nor speak. Furthermore, she had no understanding of the situation. It was completely puzzling to her. One of the muttawas ripped off her black veil and demanded her name. When she didn’t reply, he punched her in the face. She simply punched him back. He simply concluded that any woman who was disrespectful enough to hit a man had to be a whore. She should be stoned to death. Another muttawa took her handbag. She lunged at him to get it back, and, seething with anger, managed to scratch his face with her nails. The muttawa overpowered her, pinned her hands behind her back, and hustled her off to a darkened cell. His colleague rummaged through her purse and found her Saudi identity card.
The Morality Police Chief quickly passed sentence on Najat. He wrote, among other things: “Najat was working as a prostitute and was caught in the very act of picking up a client. We advise that she be stoned to death…†Two muttawas delivered the document to Prince Salman, the Government Administrator of the Morality Police Agency. He jotted down a verdict to match the suggestion, then signed it. Najat was to be publicly stoned to death the following Friday.
The parents of Najat and Taleb had searched for their children for a week when they received the horrifying news: their daughter had already been stoned to death, and their son had been secretly hospitalized. They rushed to his bedside only to discover that he was also in police detention, as he was being guarded by two armed officers. The parents were despondent. The father drove quickly to Prince Salman’s office, and demanded an immediate interview.
Overwhelmed with fury, Taleb’s father demanded the reason why his daughter had been stoned to death and his son was in hospital. Prince Salman staunchly replied that he should look at his own children for the answer; his daughter had been working the streets as a prostitute, and her brother had been assisting her. His children had been caught due to the good detective skills of his muttawas. Taleb’s father should be thanking them for catching his children early on in the game, before they infected other Saudi sons and daughters with the same debauched carryings on. In fact, Taleb’s father should be proud and relieved that the honor of his family name had been saved.
Because Taleb’s father knew that his country had neither laws nor a real justice system, he decided to deal with the matter personally. He bought a large spray canister of inflammable DDT and went to see the muttawa chief who had written the recommendation for the stoning of his deaf and dumb daughter. He sprayed the man with the substance, and quickly lit and tossed a match. Other muttawas were nearby. When they heard the agonized screams for help, they rushed into the office, put out the fire and arrested Taleb’s father. The muttawa chief managed to survive his extensive injuries.
Taleb’s father was publicly beheaded.
After his release from hospital, Taleb received two hundred lashes.
One of the muttawas who arrested Najat told me her tragic story. Taleb, who was a former student of mine, then confirmed it.
20. January 2009 - 12:12 PM
Ravi, Dhimmi etc: No philosophy stuff works, since these fellows do not understand it, far from valuing it, besides their false-pride on The Only True Faith stuff, allow him any openness to understand the other POV. Dont defend why you keep 200*x Gods or worship Idols. Say it with pride that yes you do so. No need for apologies.
Focus on the achilles’ heel – The Life and Works of the Prophet of Islam, and The Manual he delivered. These are such wealth of ammo, and using these resources, puncture the fake pride first by showing him stuff straight from there. That way you dont have to be politically correct – after all you are simply quoting the “religious” stuff that is sacrosanct for moslems.
Learn from Ex-Moslems. Check out Ali Sina’s debates with Mawlana’s. Go to his site and pick up the pdf files of his old debates. Spread awareness about this creed.
20. January 2009 - 1:12 PM
amarnath, you seem to be hell bent on nailing this guy. The problem is this guy won’t relent. He’s been taught not to. To question his religion is sacrilegous to him. Leave the guy alone with his messenger and the manual and lets hope that the true message dawns upon him sooner than later.
20. January 2009 - 1:29 PM
And then what Mr. Amarnath? What will happen then ? What will u achieve by doing so ? Who will believe u with ur false meanings and all and after all everybody knows that which creed u belong and what are ur motives ?
This is not helping here finding negatives about Religion , u cannot harm even a lil bit by that , Ppl like u are un-curable with so much knowledge and skills u are wasting it
20. January 2009 - 1:40 PM
Mr. Dhimmi i truly understand ur position !
[5] But when the sacred months are passed away, kill the idolaters wherever ye may find them; and take them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in every place of observation; but if they repent, and are steadfast in prayer, and give alms, then let them go their way; verily, God is forgiving and merciful.
And if any one of the idolaters ask thee for aid, then aid him, in order that he may hear the word of God; then let him reach his place of safety,–that is, because they are a folk who do not know.
Yes Mr. Amarnath see the whole verse what does it mean even a dumb headed will know what does that mean these were the people who accepted Islam and secretly worshiping Idols which Allah dislikes in the first place why have they accepted Islam then , they were not paying Zakaat and fulfilling all obligations and then read the second line , Allah says dont harm them if they idolater ask peace from u and protect them and takee them to a safe place………….
u coded a wrong verse which truly does not serve ur wrong purpose Mr. Amarnath , why dont u study whole Quran once if u have so much knowledge about it , No but u have done ur PHD in anti -religion matters and Destruction …………. feel sorry for u
20. January 2009 - 2:35 PM
@N Shah: nailing this guy. The problem is this guy won’t relent. He’s been taught not to. To question his religion is sacrilegous to him. Leave the guy alone with his messenger and the manual and lets hope that the true message dawns upon him sooner than later.
1. “question his religion”. Everyone has a right to follow whatever one wants to follow as long as it doesn’t come in the way for a similar freedom of others. This religion, and its bit earlier cousin, not only declare all other religions false, including each other, but also makes it obligatory for its followers to convert or kill those not wanting to follow it (calling it kufr). So the guy thinks he is doing a great deed of daawat’, that is spreading Islam among non-Moslems, and earling the brownie-points in the book of Allah. I think he is done enough, he should move on. Live – Let Live no? But he goes on and on and on, trying to clear some “misunderstandings” of us Hindus about his “religion”. What misunderstanding? Read The Manual. Read the Life of Prophet.
2. this guy won’t relent Of course he wont relent. No Moslem would ‘relent’. Guy is only a means to learn more about this terrible creed, and to spread it to other readers. It is like medical students doing with the “dead bodies” — not to cure it — only to learn more about anatomy. Understanding this creed, and its cousins, are subjects never taken up by Hindus. Thats is why I say, Read Qoran. Read Bible. Read Hadis. And make others understand too. Not for any other reason but to develop understanding of these creeds.
Now, back to the understanding of our Mosalman friend, on the said verse, which can not be any more explicit in its meaning. He is right, in short it says “Either Convert infidels (that is let them drop idolatry, start doing namaz, and paying zakat the obligatory moslem tax) or Kill them.” In so many words.
And in either case, your God that orders its followers to “KILL” those who are not following His orders. And what do you mean by terrorism? A nice God! Congratulations!
And who said I am anti-religion? I am happily religious in the traditions of my brave and wise ancestors and all my Gods. Now, this logic of why to follow the path of the ancestors rather than an aweful creed delivered by some self-declared prophet, is too sophisticated for you. Don’t bother your pious head with trying to grasp it.
20. January 2009 - 3:20 PM
That was a nice post. We should probably look at the problem within our country before we start “roaring” on the international front.
But what surprises me is that the comments below your post is rapidly festering into a religious hate war, while the post does not have anything related to religion.
20. January 2009 - 4:50 PM
Amarnath ! U easily push the whole verse under the carpet and extract what u like ………… i think patient is dead there is nothing more i can do to cure as u said
“I am happily religious in the traditions of my brave (sorry change this with Coward) and wise (dumb) ancestors who were sitting idle when mughals came in and ruined my religion and temples (as u said earlier) and all my Gods(Pls would u spare any creature of this world)”
and stop pointing fingers to others and look for problems inside ur faith . I hope knowledge of all these holy books help u in reaching somewhere atleast meaningful………..
I know now u will come up with more Hadis and Quranic verses bcoz there is much about ur type of people in it, why dont u study that No but u dont quote them……….. as they say that people will come up with new meanings of verses and mislead others ………….
20. January 2009 - 5:17 PM
Guys,
I was just trying to see whether ZOHAIL has the courage to ask questions to himself by accepting facts.
But seems like, he has closed all doors of logical and rational thinking.
I am accepting my defeat!!
BTW, I forgot the topic of this post
(sorry guys, this will be my final comment ‘off the topic’)
TO ZOHAIL,
You can always put the ideas of your “blind belief” in front of bovine human beings who don’t question anything.
But don’t ever dare to challenge the ideas of a person who knows about Hinduism with your belief which can’t withstand even a single bit of logic.
It is not because GOD created Hinduism as special. It is because Hinduism allows thinking and it accepts ideas which are good.
Hinduism contains good ideas which are probably 6000 years old but at the same time we consider thoughts of todays humans.
I am proud to say that I am the follower of a religion whose philosopher said “Are you unselfish? That is the question. If you are, you will be perfect without reading a single religious book, without going into a single church or temple. (Swami Vivekananda)”.
You might be able to kill a person very easily with a sophisticated weapon but you can’t kill somebodies thoughts that easily.
I don’t fear facts and truth because my religion tells me “sathyameva jayathe” (only truth wins) but you seems to.
So do keep this imprinted in your mind, “No other religion has the knowledge base to challenge the ideas of a person who knows about Hinduism. Even to ask a challenging question to Hinduism you need to be an atheist (because they don’t accept the idea of god)”
And finally beware of truth (if you are against it), because nothing is strong enough to wipe out it.
20. January 2009 - 6:32 PM
Zahil said, paraphrasing and distorting my quote: “I am happily religious in the traditions of my brave (sorry change this with Coward) and wise (dumb) ancestors who were sitting idle when mughals came in and ruined my religion and temples (as u said earlier) and all my Gods(Pls would u spare any creature of this world)â€
Those whom you abuse, are your own biological ancestors too.
Unless you consider yourself the product of the pathological sex-maniac’s copulation with an infant, or his daughter-in-law, or the woman whose husband he killed only hours earlier, or the Coptic slave-woman who was sent to him from Egypt, or other similar unions.
Good, you have a nice lineage. I am done with you too.
Sandeep where are you? Is this pishacha here to keep hostage your blog and torment its visitors forever?
20. January 2009 - 7:05 PM
@ amarnath
yes, pishacha is a nice word to use, he would never be able to figure what it means; it’s not written in the manual
as for his torment, he’s here to attain online martyrdom from sandeep, the day he grants him that, he’s off. By the way, you from B’luru?
20. January 2009 - 7:33 PM
These vegetarian species are not my biological ancestors u keep ur stuff to u !! i am not Indian or Paki
Why are u calling Sandeep u should call one of ur so many Gods !!!
This “pishachas” are better then u “SHAKAHARI” species atleast have courage to defend his Religion ! and give u in ur face !
I can feel Smoke is coming Mr. Amarnath from ur above statement call 911 if u have it there !!
20. January 2009 - 7:36 PM
Beware of Pishachas now a days they like Chicken like u Amarnath ! and N Shah LOL!
20. January 2009 - 11:36 PM
Zohail, Muslims ridicule idol worship but never tell us why it is bad. On top of this, they worship graves and circle around a huge stone block at Kaba.
All religions have to be morally right. You are simply following your religion is no excuse. What if a religion says its followers are free to rape their neighbour’s wife? Or to steal things that don’t belong to them? Or to kill others for not believing in their philosophy? An ideology does not become a religion just because its followers declare it to be so.
21. January 2009 - 12:50 AM
So Mr Zohail is from USA/N America ” dial 911″.( if was to be from other country the no would be different) exellent, marvellous he lives in dar- ul- harb. Guys, does it not explain his sheer bigotry? The man is happy to avail the every thing a tolerant democratic society offers but continue to beat the drum of theocracy. I repeat again you cannot turn an ass to a horse.
21. January 2009 - 1:16 PM
Zohail, You are quite happy that you are defending your religion here. Sorry we can’t match you. See we have so many things to do apart from religion. Religion is just a part of our life not our whole life. You guys are quite brave as this whole world had watched in Beslan. May Allah and Koran grant you that kind of bravery again and again.Salman Rushdie will vouch for your bravery. And you guys are so brave that whole world is witnessing that. The brave followers of your religion come with all bravery, plant a bomb here and there on unsuspecting office going or daily commuters and disappear. And your brave community then provide food and shelter to these brave followers. When confronted your brave community say those were not the true followers of Islam. Your brave community role ends here. So much bravery is overwhelming.
21. January 2009 - 2:04 PM
Zohail,
Despite my warnings, you continue to inundate this blog’s comment space with what is now bordering as hate speech. And so in the 8+ years of this blog’s history, you have the rare honour of being banned.
21. January 2009 - 2:20 PM
Sandeep:
Is Zohail the first guy banned from your blog?
21. January 2009 - 2:23 PM
Kedar,
yes.
21. January 2009 - 6:15 PM
Zohail is now a step closer to his coveted place in Jannat.
21. January 2009 - 6:42 PM
LOL, sandeep and what will stop him from using another name with his hate speech?
21. January 2009 - 7:49 PM
Now on the topic of the post…
I feel, this is a total fall-back from India’s stand against Pak/Pok based militancy. I don’t understand, how can India say Pakistan should not support anti-Indian forces in its soil but at the same time support Palestine which is clearly neutral against Hamas. At times being neutral is worse than doing wrong.
I am against killing innocent people, but I feel Israel got the right to protect its citizens. I am pretty sure that Israelis are bold enough to defend their cause even if the entire world is against them.
Hope you guys have noticed our “Left-intellectuals” stand on the issue.
They were easy about “the carnage in Mumbai”, but they can’t bear a single attack against Palestine. It is a shame that we still call them Indians (sorry if I am outrageous ). Democracy allows freedom of expression,
but does it mean that you can always insult people of your country?.
Remember, CPI(M) is a political party which protested against Saddam Hussain’s hanging with a ‘Kerala-hartal’. And when 200+ innocent people got brutally murdered, when 20+ brave officers lost their life, I didn’t see any such ‘sign of solidarity’ from them. If at all I noticed anything, it was just their arrogant insult to a martyr’s family.
21. January 2009 - 8:02 PM
TO ZOHAIL-
Well now this is for you-
(Excerpts from Koran included)
People often say that terrorists have no religion. Islam and Terrorism are not synonymous. Well that is actually true. But consider this-
Muslims have killed more than 100 million Hindus since they first began their jihad against India, in the 660s AD.
Islamic clerics and other islamic so called jihadists and other adherents of this political ideology, Islam, have invaded, occupied, massacred, and enslaved more than 1/5 of the world in the past 1400 years! MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED MORE THAN 100 MILLION HINDUS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THEIR JIHAD AGAINST INDIA! MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS (in fact, the first non-Arab victims of Muslims were Jews – Mohammad personally beheaded several hundred of them). MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS AND TAKEN COUNTLESS OTHERS INTO SLAVERY!
Even now, when it is OBVIOUS that where ever there are Muslims, there is Islamic fundamentalism/ terrorism (America, Israel, India, Serbia, Britain, Australia, The Philippines, Sudan, Armenia, Greece, Holland, France, Denmark, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia, and the list goes on…), we never hear Muslims condemn these acts. We never hear them whine and cry about them. We never them riot or protest against those cowardly jihadi acts.
When America, Israel, India, Serbia, Russia, Australia, Britain, and other non-Muslim countries dare to defend themselves in any way, you start riots and protests; these Islamic fundamentalists start accusing these nations of “racism”, “bigotry”, “intolerance”, “hatred”, and God knows what else; they start whining and crying to the UN and leftist Western media; and doing everything you can to get the world on their support.
They kill our women and children and then we kill those of who are responsible. But then we are termed as “imperialists”,”racists”, “bigots” and “Islamophobes”! Yes, Islam followers are victims of “discrimination” and “bigotry”; but not innocent helpless women and children of Afghanistan who are deprived of their basic liberty of that of right to education even when we are in 21st century.
This “peaceful” “religion” is constantly being “discriminated” against so much that the leaders of virtually all non-Muslim countries still let them immigrate to them, call Islam a “religion of peace”, and bend over backwards for its followers, while they try to impose their “peaceful” “religion” on everyone. And by the way, just so everyone knows how “peaceful” Islam is and just how this so-called “discrimination” against Muslims relates to the latest attacks against my Mumbai, let me quote the holy book of Islam, the Koran:
Koran 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels [non-Muslims] out to the last.’â€
Koran 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.â€
Koran 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah’s enemy.â€
Koran 8:60 “Prepare against them [non-Muslims] whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah [non-Muslims], and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.â€
Koran 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers [non-Muslims] wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war—The unbelievers [non-Muslims] are your inveterate foe.”
Koran: 4:101 ,Koran: 33.27:And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.
Koran: 47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
Koran 21:44: Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.
Koran: 47.35: And be not slack so as to cry for peace and you have the upper hand, and Allah is with you, and He will not bring your deeds to naught. “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”
Koran: 5:51:”It is not fitting for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”
Koran 8:67,Koran 5:51 “Believers [Muslims], take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.â€
Koran 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve [non-Muslims] and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease.â€
Koran 88:1: “Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring.â€
Koran 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.â€
[Another translation says:] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.â€
Some more-
As many (if not even more than) 150 innocent civilians and anti-terrorist commandos were massacred by Islamic terrorist thugs and yet: NO MUSLIM OUTRAGE! NONE!
Here are the following reactions from many Muslims:
1) “We condemn these attacks, but you must note the major discrimination against Muslims by Hindus”.
2) “We condemn these attacks, but you must note the warming relations between the Great Satan (USA) and the Little Satan (The Zionist Entity – aka Israel).”
3) “We condemn these attacks. The Zionists and their CIA friends were responsible.”
4) “Allah Akbar! We have killed many infidels. ALLAH AKBAR! I will be very happy to be with my camel and goat in bed today, Inshallah. ALLAH AKBAR!”
21. January 2009 - 8:02 PM
Well now this is for you-
(Excerpts from Koran included)
People often say that terrorists have no religion. Islam and Terrorism are not synonymous. Well that is actually true. But consider this-
Muslims have killed more than 100 million Hindus since they first began their jihad against India, in the 660s AD.
Islamic clerics and other islamic so called jihadists and other adherents of this political ideology, Islam, have invaded, occupied, massacred, and enslaved more than 1/5 of the world in the past 1400 years! MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED MORE THAN 100 MILLION HINDUS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THEIR JIHAD AGAINST INDIA! MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS (in fact, the first non-Arab victims of Muslims were Jews – Mohammad personally beheaded several hundred of them). MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS AND TAKEN COUNTLESS OTHERS INTO SLAVERY!
Even now, when it is OBVIOUS that where ever there are Muslims, there is Islamic fundamentalism/ terrorism (America, Israel, India, Serbia, Britain, Australia, The Philippines, Sudan, Armenia, Greece, Holland, France, Denmark, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia, and the list goes on…), we never hear Muslims condemn these acts. We never hear them whine and cry about them. We never them riot or protest against those cowardly jihadi acts.
When America, Israel, India, Serbia, Russia, Australia, Britain, and other non-Muslim countries dare to defend themselves in any way, you start riots and protests; these Islamic fundamentalists start accusing these nations of “racism”, “bigotry”, “intolerance”, “hatred”, and God knows what else; they start whining and crying to the UN and leftist Western media; and doing everything you can to get the world on their support.
They kill our women and children and then we kill those of who are responsible. But then we are termed as “imperialists”,”racists”, “bigots” and “Islamophobes”! Yes, Islam followers are victims of “discrimination” and “bigotry”; but not innocent helpless women and children of Afghanistan who are deprived of their basic liberty of that of right to education even when we are in 21st century.
This “peaceful” “religion” is constantly being “discriminated” against so much that the leaders of virtually all non-Muslim countries still let them immigrate to them, call Islam a “religion of peace”, and bend over backwards for its followers, while they try to impose their “peaceful” “religion” on everyone. And by the way, just so everyone knows how “peaceful” Islam is and just how this so-called “discrimination” against Muslims relates to the latest attacks against my Mumbai, let me quote the holy book of Islam, the Koran:
Koran 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels [non-Muslims] out to the last.’â€
Koran 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.â€
Koran 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah’s enemy.â€
Koran 8:60 “Prepare against them [non-Muslims] whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah [non-Muslims], and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.â€
Koran 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers [non-Muslims] wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war—The unbelievers [non-Muslims] are your inveterate foe.”
Koran: 4:101 ,Koran: 33.27:And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.
Koran: 47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
Koran 21:44: Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.
Koran: 47.35: And be not slack so as to cry for peace and you have the upper hand, and Allah is with you, and He will not bring your deeds to naught. “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”
Koran: 5:51:”It is not fitting for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”
Koran 8:67,Koran 5:51 “Believers [Muslims], take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.â€
Koran 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve [non-Muslims] and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease.â€
Koran 88:1: “Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring.â€
Koran 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.â€
[Another translation says:] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.â€
Some more-
As many (if not even more than) 150 innocent civilians and anti-terrorist commandos were massacred by Islamic terrorist thugs and yet: NO MUSLIM OUTRAGE! NONE!
Here are the following reactions from many Muslims:
1) “We condemn these attacks, but you must note the major discrimination against Muslims by Hindus”.
2) “We condemn these attacks, but you must note the warming relations between the Great Satan (USA) and the Little Satan (The Zionist Entity – aka Israel).”
3) “We condemn these attacks. The Zionists and their CIA friends were responsible.”
4) “Allah Akbar! We have killed many infidels. ALLAH AKBAR! I will be very happy to be with my camel and goat in bed today, Inshallah. ALLAH AKBAR!”
21. January 2009 - 11:22 PM
Ravi, I Agree with you. I am not sure if communism as such is bad or not, but i surely dislike the indian commies, for the exact reason that you have mentioned.
28. January 2009 - 10:16 AM
Another decadent, spineless and bigoted future dhimmi in Sweden has decided to cancel a Holocost memorial ceremony because of the Gaza-situation.
Have no doubt about these two things. This person is another phony European that is too scared to tick off some muslims. Likewise, I am sure the police already told him that it would be best to cancel this thing to avoid “riots”.
I know these spineless traitors and how they have destroyed our society to fill their own pockets and cather to bullies. They make me sick to both the stomach and the soul and that’s why I am in the process of abandoning my homeland. Expect tens of thousands of us to do the same in the next years…
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232643759716&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull