Kanchan Gupta on the Loose Women Campaign
Wednesday, 11. February 2009 - 12:32 PM
This article is but one of the reasons why Kanchan Gupta is one of my favourite columnists. Sheer clarity combined with punch. The Loose Women Facebook group is a barometer of what a majority of youth think are earth-shattering issues. Everybody seems to have forgotten 26/11. If only this enthusiasm, and some amazing mass mobilization was displayed the first time there was a terror attack on Indian soil.
Renuka Chowdhury is truly a genius.
Liberty is not libertinism
Kanchan Gupta
How blithely we abuse the Right for anything and everything that offends those who promote and practice unrestrained libertinism and are appalled that morals and scruples are still valued by the vast majority of the people of India. It is of little or no consequence to the critics of the Right that most of them lack the intellectual wherewithal to define and qualify the object of their hate. Despite the absence of any real understanding of what the Right stands for, in contrast to the Left, it is fashionable to mock at the former even for those whom the latter holds in utter contempt.
Hence the outpouring of abuse and worse against the Right following the attack on a pub in Mangalore, evocatively named Amnesia, by a bunch of goons masquerading as soldiers of Sri Ram Sena on January 24. Strangely, most of the scathing criticism of the Right has been voiced by those whose dissolute lifestyle sets them firmly apart from conservatives as well as liberals. It is doubtful whether the Left, leave alone the Right, would endorse the enterprise undertaken by The Consortium of Pubgoing, Loose and Forward Women to collect pink underwear, sneeringly referred to as ‘chaddis’, which will be sent to Pramod Muthalik and his hoodlums on Valentine’s Day this Thursday. There is nothing amusing about either this ‘creative’ protest or Union Minister of State for Women and Child Development Renuka Choudhury’s call for a ‘pub bharo andolan’; both merely highlight the moral bankruptcy of a certain segment of our urban society which seeks to impose on India the trailer park ‘culture’ that permeates every aspect of their lives.
The issue really isn’t one of culture and tradition, which are far too complex for those who look askance at responsible behaviour to comprehend, but the manner in which they view others who may refuse to embrace or applaud their lifestyle. It is also to do with perverse notions of ‘modernism’ and assertion of perverted ‘modernity’. For instance, The Consortium of Pubgoing, Loose and Forward Women — this Facebook group also has men as its members — would consider women who don’t consume alcoholic beverages or smoke cigarettes, wear saris and are not necessarily long-suffering wives who spend their lives as home-makers but in building successful careers, as ‘backward’.
They would view working women who travel in over-crowded buses and commuter trains and return home in the evening too tired to contemplate a night out on the tiles, or those who contribute to the family kitty to keep the home fire burning and, therefore, cannot afford the luxury of scoffing exotic cocktails at pubs, as losers deserving their pity. The women who scrub floors, wash clothes and clean dishes to eke out subsistence wages from which they save money to pay for their children’s school fees and books, and are regularly beaten black and blue by their husbands after they have had their fill of liquor at ‘pubs’ which cater to the underclass, simply do not matter and, hence, are not worthy of The Consortium of Pubgoing, Loose and Forward Women’s attention.
There is also the aspect of duplicity, the double standards which are practiced by those who equate ‘pub culture’ and its attendant libertine self-indulgence with being ‘forward’ or ‘modern’. For example, a woman with the pallu of her sari firmly placed over her head will be sneered at as not only ‘backward’ but also a ‘conservative’ who is preventing society from moving ‘forward’. But a woman forced to clad herself in an all-enveloping burqa will be seen as being true to her ‘faith’ and ‘culture’, which only underscores the amazing ignorance of those who do the tagging.
Who is to tell The Consortium of Pubgoing, Loose and Forward Women, and their guardian angel Renuka Choudhury, that a vegetarian and a teetotaller, whether a man or a woman, who finds ‘pub culture’ abhorrent and distasteful, or those who reject conspicuous consumption since it clashes with their middle class values, can also be ‘forward’ and ‘modern’ in their personal lives.
Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar did not give up his sacred thread nor did he get rid of the tuft of hair that denoted his caste; he wore a short Bengali peasant’s dhuti and used a coarse cotton chaador to cover his torso. He was a scholar of Sanskrit who was barely able to make ends meet, leave alone indulge in the smallest of luxuries. Such a person would be an object of ridicule and worse for The Consortium of Pubgoing, Loose and Forward Women, especially the male members of the group who would burst into derisive laughter. That’s understandable. For those busy collecting pink chaddis would be blissfully ignorant of Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar’s pioneering role in championing women’s emancipation and promoting widow remarriage. Nor would they know about Raja Ram Mohun Roy who led a remarkable campaign for social reform without abandoning culture and tradition: The Brahmo Samaj was — and remains — grounded in India’s civilisational identity and cultural ethos while repudiating aberrations and excesses of faith.
A last point that merits elaboration is the disdain which the pink chaddi brigade and charlatans who pose as emancipators of women and ostensibly believe that emancipation lies in sipping Bacardi or chasing whiskey while blowing smoke rings have for local community sensitivities, which are often casually referred to as local culture and tradition. Just because lip-locking or similar public display of carnal attraction (which is not to be confused with love) raises no eyebrows in the West does not mean the East must ape the mating game. It is immaterial whether individuals are comfortable with licentious behaviour in front of others. What is material and important is whether those around the individuals — in a street, a park, a café or a restaurant — are comfortable with it; if they feel discomfited or outraged, then their sensitivities must over-ride the presumed right to make a spectacle of yourself in public.
None of this is in defence of Pramod Muthalik’s hooliganism. But to oppose misplaced and vulgar vigilantism is not to support the obnoxious celebration of ‘pub culture’. Liberty, after all, is not about libertinism nor is modernism to be confused with libertarianism. By idolising deracinated men and women who have scant regard for moral values and even less respect for ethical rectitude, we are promoting everything that is antithetical to our culture, our tradition. There really is no need to fashion our lifestyle after Sex and the City. But if informed — or should it be ill-informed? — adults elect to do so, it is their choice and they are welcome to it. Of course, provided they do not seek to impose it on others or demand approval, acceptance and applause.
Tags: Facebook Group–Loose Women, Fighting Worthless Causes, Indian Politics, Kanchan Gupta, Pink Chaddi Campaign, Politics, Pub Attack on Mangalore, Renuka Chowdhury, Society & Culture, Sri Ram Sena, Sri Ram Sena Pub Attack
11. February 2009 - 2:28 PM
punchy and crisp. hits the bull’s eye. A good retort to ToI who seems to have emerged as the emanicipator for pub goers and valentine day enthusiasts. I should admit that its pretty nauseating to read their (unjustified) rant every morning for the past week. This article shreds ToI, propaganda-type article to smithereens. Bravo!
11. February 2009 - 2:58 PM
The probability of me being in a pub and being hurt by goons, if this trend continues, is much higher than me being hit by a terrorist strike. Hence the protest.
And this Kanchan person, just like you, is just horny and is offended by women who are having more sex than he ever will.
11. February 2009 - 3:14 PM
Pub Chick,
While your frivolous comment is not worth responding to, I’m doing it to give the devil its due.
>>The probability of me being in a pub and being hurt by goons, if this trend continues, is much higher than me being hit by a terrorist strike. Hence the protest.
Any statistical evidence to back this up? Apart from the Rama Sene, when was any woman EVER attacked in a pub?
>>And this Kanchan person, just like you, is just horny and is offended by women who are having more sex than he ever will.
Hey lady! I thought this was about pub-going, not having sex. What’s next? You guys gonna do a public-sex campaign? I’m sure you’ll have umpteen onlookers as well as those wanting to jump right in. Go on baby! Sock it to ‘em in public!
I’d have appreciated it if you at least had the courage to post under your real name.
11. February 2009 - 3:24 PM
I would post under my real name if only you did not behave like a dog in heat.
Statistical evidence for you darling? It’s called the crime rates of cities. Take a look, would you? Sometimes, there are things other than porn.
Also, stop responding line by line. Regardless of how juvenile you may be.
11. February 2009 - 3:56 PM
How lovely, you actually responded again!
>>I would post under my real name if only you did not behave like a dog in heat.
But you forced me to darling with your bitch-in-heat style of commenting. I’m not known to disappoint a lady in such matters.
>>Statistical evidence for you darling? It’s called the crime rates of cities. Take a look, would you?
Sweetie, you never understand the meaning of “logic and reasoning” do you? I asked for Statistical evidence to prove “The probability of me being in a pub and being hurt by goons, if this trend continues, is much higher than me being hit by a terrorist strike.” Besides, we were talking only about Bangalore/Karnataka where the pub-violence happened. Why do you bring in other cities? “Crime rate” is a pretty all-encompassing term–pub-related violence is just a tiny part of that. Oh but I forget when you’re in heat your brain stops functioning.
>>Sometimes, there are things other than porn.
You mean, like fornicating on the streets? No thanks dear, I’ll let you relish the experience. Start a FB group/blog to announce when your next performance is. TOI will give you front page coverage.
>>Also, stop responding line by line. Regardless of how juvenile you may be.
Two things: YOU don’t tell me how I should respond. Two, line by line response is called a form of “decent/reasoned debating,” a fact you’ll never get until you close your legs and open your brains for a change.
11. February 2009 - 4:05 PM
I would rather sit on the outside to see how this “debate??” proceeds.
@Sandeep
“bitch-in-heat style of commenting” , “when you’re in heat your brain stops functioning” , “until you close your legs and open your brains”
Thats not nice is it? I know you were only responding to her, but no name calling please. Its your blog and you need to take the first step towards it.
11. February 2009 - 4:07 PM
Such clarity! Wonderful!
11. February 2009 - 4:08 PM
It is very simple – Om Vs Rome.
Currently the power is slipping from Rome (karnataka) so they are desperate and will go to any length to humiliate OM.
11. February 2009 - 4:14 PM
>>Thats not nice is it? I know you were only responding to her, but no name calling please.
borneveryday, it’s not nice, agreed. I only give it back as good as I get.
11. February 2009 - 4:19 PM
Dearest, did you ever do a cost/benefit analysis on your porn?
And since you are too stupid to realize, let me explain in a phased manner. Now, let’s start with what a crime against a woman is. Go to your nearest library, find a text book on sociology and/or criminology. Since you don’t seem the kind who understands, I suggest you give it to the librarian and request it be read and explained to you.
Then, gather statistics for the total crimes against women. Do this for both Karnataka and India.
Gather the total number of people who died due to terrorism. In Karnataka and India.
After you have the definition from 1 and numbers from 2 and 3 ready, we’ll continue this. While you are at it, please also gather poulation data for total number of women and the number of women who come from households earning more than 1,20,000/ annum.
Till then, continue being juvenile. I almost forgot how funny this was and am sorry I requested you to be otherwise.
11. February 2009 - 4:26 PM
Pub Chick,
Tch tch tch. Like I said, your reasoning skills are sub-zero. But I’m glad you got your kicks and your funnies. Goodbye and don’t return.
11. February 2009 - 4:28 PM
There you go darling. Facts are not your friendS eh?
If you want to spread my legs, you need to have a non-zero IQ.
11. February 2009 - 4:30 PM
@Pub Chick
I agree what happened in mangalore is hooliganism and nothing to do with culture, and people have the right to protest about it in a non-violent manner.
But was wondering if this protest is against all the crimes against women, because you were mentioning it!! If it is, then I guess you are starting at the wrong place. The approach towards Women empowerment is not “top down” but “bottom up”, which means the women of the lower strata of the society needs to be empowered more than the ones at the top. Atleast in India thats how it needs to be handled.
Thats my two paise of thought.
11. February 2009 - 4:33 PM
Sandeep,
I have noticed a similar argument by another imbecile over at offstumped as well. They are clearly shifting goal-posts. Now suddenly, this is no longer against the pub-culture, but against crimes committed on women.
Understandable because pub-culture is not something one can defend on moral grounds–at some point, all pub-goers have to admit that they go to pub just because “they like it”.. there is no higher purpose there. Desperately groping for someother rope to hang on to has led them to another small aspect of the SRS-pub story– crimes against women!
Right on boys! Lets do the “crimes against women” thingy. Much more defensible!
11. February 2009 - 4:38 PM
Thanks to Kanchan Gupta to phrase the issue in a single clear sentence. (“The issue really isn’t one of culture and tradition, which are far too complex for those who look askance at responsible behaviour to comprehend, but the manner in which they view others who may refuse to embrace or applaud their lifestyle.”).
It is really appalling to see union minister for Women and Child Development is giving preference to such silly issues. I don’t know what percentage of women in India would like to go to pubs (probably less than 0.01 %). It is difficult to believe that in a country where 41 % of the population live below poverty line (according to international standards), a union minister projects the “right to go to pubs” more important than right for food! It is a shame that in a country which has highest level of child malnutrition (46% of children under the age of three) the Child Development minister calls for ‘Pub-bharo andolan’ rather than ‘save children andolan’.
I never heard her (Renuka’s) name in connection with a campaign which can benefit the underprivileged women and children.
I feel Ms. Choudhary’s portfolio should be something like ‘minister for Drunkards and Pub Development’!
11. February 2009 - 4:42 PM
Pub Chick,
Oh sure, go ahead, give me the facts. They’re useless and dangerous in the hands of people like you who are allergic to use sound reasoning to interpret them. Curiously, you haven’t addressed my point about your shifting goalposts.
Me and spread your legs? No and no thanks. The stink spreads far enough.
11. February 2009 - 4:47 PM
Umm, you were asked to fetch facts.
Dear borneveryday boy, you don’t have to condemn something to prove your credentials. I don’t vote and you, I presume, are not running for some office.
The link between pub violence and crimes against women has a causal relationship at a level that is three layers deep for this analysis. Which, I was hoping to prove to this Sandeep person. He, however, has declared war on facts.
Now, why don’t you be a darling instead and get me those definitions and numbers.
11. February 2009 - 4:48 PM
pubchick and sandeep, the ‘spark’ seems to be lighting. I know this adds no intellectual value to your blog but I was too tempted to know Sandeep’s response to point 12.
11. February 2009 - 4:53 PM
N Shah, you don’t have to be jealous. I can’t spread wide enough to fit both.
Now, get me those numbers. We’ll do a probability calculation first.
11. February 2009 - 5:01 PM
Pub Chick,
The burden of proof lies on YOU for fetching the numbers, not me, since you made the claim that “The probability of me being in a pub and being hurt by goons, if this trend continues, is much higher than me being hit by a terrorist strike..”
Besides, you’re continuously ignorning my query about shifting goalposts by raising a parallel (if according to you, a “causal”) argument. If you want me to respond, FRAME the debate logically. If that’s too hard, take the easy route by calling me names. I’m done with you.
11. February 2009 - 5:03 PM
Not “everyone” condemns/protests to prove their credentials. Also If I run for office , I will know WHO my vote bank is.
And come on honey when YOU need to prove something, then its upto YOU to bring the facts to the table, and not ask someone else to do it. I was expecting a good debate and we are stuck at who will bring the facts?
11. February 2009 - 5:10 PM
Why do I have any burden here? Because you are afraid of learning or of facts? Okay!
11. February 2009 - 5:17 PM
I feel sad that for once I dont agree with Kanchan. Looks like BOTH Kanchan and the Pink Chaddi babes have got the real essence of this whole tamasha wrong.
It is NOT wrong to judge or have an opinion on another person who is not like u. This is a free country and I can have /form my own opinions. So the pink chaddi babes are free to have a particular opinion about Muthalik and his clowns or for Muthalik and his clowns to form an opinion or pass judgement on the Pink chaddi babes.
What IS Wrong is when violence is used as a means to express and impose those opinions. If Muthalik and his clowns had staged a non violent dharna in front of that pub, I am sure he would have had a bigger following today.
When he crossed that line to violence he lost all (or atleast my ) support.
Due to this reason, no matter what the pink chaddi babes do, they will always be in the right.
11. February 2009 - 5:17 PM
No, Because the person who wishes to prove or disprove something is the one who brings in the facts.
11. February 2009 - 5:31 PM
KC
>>What IS Wrong is when violence is used as a means to express and impose those opinions. If Muthalik and his clowns had staged a non violent dharna in front of that pub, I am sure he would have had a bigger following today.
Please read Kanchan carefully. He condemns Muthalik’s deeds.
>>Due to this reason, no matter what the pink chaddi babes do, they will always be in the right.
Whoaa! You need to tread carefully here. The point is not WHAT they do. It is more to do with what such a protest will achieve and what message they are trying to spread. In the name of free speech, democracy, etc, they’re essentially trying to impose THEIR version of modernity/evolved womanhood, etc etc. This is what Kanchan’s article conveys.
11. February 2009 - 5:37 PM
Since when did I *want* to prove? It’s called education. Do you even read? Go back to Comment 10. Read it 10 times.
Now, come with numbers.
11. February 2009 - 5:40 PM
Yawn!! Now its started to get boring and unintelligent.
Nice talking to you.
11. February 2009 - 5:45 PM
You decide when I get unintelligent when you don’t bring numbers? Kids today.
11. February 2009 - 5:54 PM
I said this whole debate thing is getting unintelligent, there is only talk about who should be getting the numbers/facts and why. But if you want to get unintelligent on your own, i wouldnt stop it.
Ok if you want to “educate” some one, dont you think that you have to bring in facts and numbers yourself and “EDUCATE”?
Anyway since it seems to be going no where, bye.
And Kid??
Really??
11. February 2009 - 5:54 PM
and sorry Sandeep, to have used your blog space for NOTHING
11. February 2009 - 5:58 PM
My dear Pub Chick,
My comments on your comments #wise:
Comment #1: The probability of you dying in a road accident is also higher than dying in a terrorist attack. Do I see you campaigning for road safety issues?
How can you actually comment about the sexuality of a person about whom you have only read; not on topics of sexuality but on matters completely different?
Actually as I read down all the comments, they are actually not worth responding to because they are all built on a completely untenable foundation of comment #1.
My sincere unsolicited advice to you: snap out the ridiculous sense of identity(Pub chick!)that you have created of yourself in your mind.
I send you my love and encourage to go shake a leg to this song next time you are in a pub and think about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojpbOJjrGBQ
11. February 2009 - 6:12 PM
The whole idea of “pub going, loose…”
consortium is lost on Kanchan Gupta.
Few people have to see EVERTHING through the
prism of LEFT and RIGHT politics.
Now take the pub-attack/valentine day issue,
here even the most right of
right people have disowned Muthalik.
People opposed to Muthalik are not leftist…and yet
we have this first para devoted to how EVERYONE is bashing the RIGHT.
The second para doesnt say much except providing veiled references
to life-styles followed by consortium supporters.
Assumptions! Assumptions!
May i point the obvious that “pub going’ “loose” and “forward”
…have been adopted as sarcasm.
A sarcasm meant for all those who fail to see that there are pub hoppers
and there are pub hoppers. Sarcasm for those who wont know there are alcoholics
and there are non-alcoholics. And yes, sarcasm for whom a visit to a pub
must necessarily end up in casual sex, unwed mother, dysfunctional families..etc etc.
Third para – Kanchan gupta hazards at some more assumptions.
Who does the consortium make fun of? It seems this group makes fun of anyone who’s not sipping a bacardi
at star hotels should be made fun of. And that would include working mothers who travel in buses,
lowly paid women mopping the floor..Wow! i am surprised he didnt assume exactly HOW these
women will scoff at them..with a glass in one hand, cigar in other, minimally clad mouthing off
a dialgue from subhash ghai clip -” Tum chote log ko hum acche se jante hai, tumhari aukad nahi hai”
right?
Few para’s down..some more assumptions..these people are blisfully unaware of Vidyasagar and
Raja ram mohum roy. If i may be allowed to recollect history..then these people ( who he now
holds as stalwarts of our culture – and for once i am in agreement with him),
were regarded pariahs in their times. Allegation? They are destroying the sanctity of hindu religion.
So much so that Vidyasagar after having married his son to a widow had to leave his hometowm and
take recluse in Deoghar.
I am not sure whether Ram mohan/vidyasagar would approve of “pub culture”(whatever that means)
and mind you..so doesnt ANY of us.
BUt i am definite that they would approve of the right of an individual rights to choose their life…thats the
cause they fought for in their times.
11. February 2009 - 6:20 PM
anup, a road accident most likely happens because of bad roads, which according to the government, needs $300 billion to fix. Protesting idiots, much like enjoying their stupidity online, comes for free.
And according to your logic, you should be protesting every minute of your life for something. But since you are taking time off to type here, I will assume you are not and therefore treat that as proof by contradiction as to why I should not be protesting bad roads.
borneverday — you assumed it was a debate. So, go get them, Tiger.
11. February 2009 - 6:42 PM
Pub chick,
“Most likely happens” is not the same as “happens” (stating conclusively that fact). In addition to pointing out your uncertainty wrt the major reason for road accidents (i.e. bad roads as per you) that you have highlighted in your reply, may I also suggest you to go find the facts that conclusively support your argument; since you are asking the other person to go on a fact finding mission to prove the point that you have made?
I don’t quite get your protesting online argument; are you saying that you are an idiot too among all the other idiots who are protesting online?
I have never even remotely bought into the foreground any aspect of time (since you say every minute as per my logic). I have only said that if you feel so strongly about the probability of you dying in a pub incident rather than a terrorist attack, I have asked you if you have thought about the possibility of you dying in a road accident and if so, have you protested about it.
Pub chick, not many people in India are fortunate to get the privileges that you have got (a financial position that allows you to go to pubs, use internet & I suppose your good English language skills). So I sincerely implore you to make good of the gifts you have got.
Do use forums such as these to clarify your thinking. But be civil about it. We are all one people after all.
11. February 2009 - 6:47 PM
No anup, I am saying you are idiot. And, because it was likely, I used likely. Else, I’d have used because.
And since you have ridiculed proof by contradiction, it’s even more fun now. Almost everything can now be proven otherwise. Which must probably mean, you are not idiot. Hence you must be right.
11. February 2009 - 7:03 PM
Pub chick,
Come on! I would thought a smart & intelligent girl like you would have a more than fragile ego you display by calling me an idiot because I sought a clarification if you were an idiot using your own logic.
It’s fun now? Well, I am happy for you that it is. Only hope that the fun of a well-off person like you is not the misery of the have-nots of this country because of continued neglect by well-off people such as yourself about the real and urgent issues faced by this nation.
One final word, I won’t be engaging with you on this topic again on this blog. And I suppose I will be hearing from you since you would have saved the vitriolic best of your liberal rants for the last (word). I can only wish and hope for a conscience satisfying life for you.
11. February 2009 - 7:13 PM
Now, anup, translate that gibberish into logic. In fact, I now think the much debunked Russell will help us here. Assign a numeric for every logical statement and write just that. The European who disproved the Englishman had no clue how posterity will get progressively dumber.
11. February 2009 - 7:13 PM
LOL Now have a look at this, the blog world is buzzing with activity. Grab some popcorn people.
http://thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/
11. February 2009 - 7:21 PM
Anup:
There is a reason Sandeep stopped arguing with Pub Chick.
Relax man. As they say, “Dont feed the troll”.
11. February 2009 - 7:36 PM
Nandini,
“Despite the absence of any real understanding of what the Right stands for, in contrast to the Left, it is fashionable to mock at the former even for those whom the latter holds in utter contempt.”
Read this sentence again or if you must, the para too. I am genuinely stumped on this one; but can you please tell me where exactly does Kanchan Gupta even refers to your accusation against him that ‘People opposed to Muthalik are leftists”?
Now, as to the issue of everyone bashing the Right; I am not sure if you have followed our 24*7 news channel, but to my mind they seem to damn the RSS even as RSS publicly condemned this incident. Now RSS is, as you would know, the quintessential Hindu Right wing organization- I do think that Kanchan Gupta uncharacteristically did not specify the Right as Hindu Right wing.
Now, would you think that Kanchan Gupta was far off from the mark when he said that the (established) Right did not endorse this rabid SRS and yet the (established) Right came under fire from the media houses?
11. February 2009 - 8:17 PM
Pub chick
Kaiku tu haram kaam karti daaru peeke
burkha dalke saudi main le jaaonga tumko;
jokes aside
you are making a fool out of yourself by getting agitated and not providing rational explaination
If i say you are being a *itch, then it is upto me to explain why, and not upto you to show that you are not
similary when you say
“The probability of me being in a pub and being hurt by goons, if this trend continues, is much higher than me being hit by a terrorist strike.”
please provide numbers or a simple probablity analysis
just dont jump up and down and act as if you are narrating *agina monologues
11. February 2009 - 8:32 PM
Anup,
Just to clarify we have the same understanding of his first para :-
1. consortium guys dont have clarity of what constitutes RIGHT.
2. And yet they love to hate it.
3. And they hate the right despite not being in the good books of left.
Now, points 1 and 2 put together makes sense ( IMHO statement 1 is a wrong assumption) but hows statement 3 relevant?
Why should anyone bother to find out if the left approves of them before
they criticize right.
i did not imply that he’s calling them leftist.
but i am puzzled why he should bring the left at all.
(Real or perceived) bashing of RSS by media houses,and whether rightly or wrongly so
was NOT the content of Kanchan gupta’s article.
That could be a point of discussion on a different day.
The reaction of my previous post was limited to Kanchan gupta’s take on “pub going, forward, loose woman consortium”.
11. February 2009 - 9:10 PM
Umm, I am getting agitated now? Cool!
11. February 2009 - 9:20 PM
hmm okay lets try this again
@ pubchick
If i say you are being a *itch, then it is upto me to explain why, and not upto you to show that you are not
similary when you say
“The probability of me being in a pub and being hurt by goons, if this trend continues, is much higher than me being hit by a terrorist strike.â€
please provide numbers or a simple probablity analysis
11. February 2009 - 9:33 PM
Hmmm… free sex and booze and running around with your breast and hip cleavage showing is a definition of women liberation and empowerment? By this logic, the Red Light district would be the most liberated zone in the whole of India. And animals would be the next in line since they have never worn any clothes and go around flashing their genitals.
Liberation comes from opening your mind wide, not your legs wide. Praveen Babi and Pamella Bordes would be poster girls for this “liberated” brigade which thinks promiscuity and alcoholism is “modernism.”
Culture and strict sexual norms were invented to protect women and prevent men from treating them as prostitutes. There are many women whose lives have been destroyed due to indiscretions of the youth. Young boys will like nothing more than to have girls open their legs wide for them, but it is the girls’ entire life that is at stake.
11. February 2009 - 10:35 PM
Wow.. I never saw any post on this blog inundated by so many comments..
Three cheers to Kanchan and Sandeep both.
As an aside, you should’ve also included Kushalrani Ghulab’s article on Feb 1st in the Hindustan Times on Om Prakash’s work of beverages in early days. A finding that Sita could’ve enjoyed a drink or two on festive occasions is turned into an excuse for drinking by the esteemed madam.
I don’t have a link though, got it by mail. Would’ve posted otherwise.
11. February 2009 - 10:38 PM
That was simply abominable!
11. February 2009 - 11:38 PM
Gosh India has changed!
Looks like I completely missed the train to women’s lib when my parents took me away at 6 months! Going by Pub Chick’s defence of sexually (hyper) active females and equating freedom and equality to booze and sex, really makes me wonder. Also, makes the California blonde chicks with breast implants look like nuns in comparison. Is this what “liberated” Indian women have come to?
I feel like a burqa-clad-tent right now.
12. February 2009 - 12:47 AM
You’ve completely missed the point behind ‘pub bharo andolan’ and the facebook consortium.
Its about the freedom to make the choice to visit a pub, to drink if you want to, to smoke, to do any thing which doesn’t impinge on the freedom of others or cause harm to them, direct or indirect.
I’m a male, and I’m a member of that facebook consortium, and I don’t drink, and like me, there are many other teetotallers, who’ve made a personal choice not to drink.
12. February 2009 - 1:04 AM
@ Sandeep_m
You’ve completely missed the point on asking for freedom and justice. Coward attempts like making facebook groups are going to take you nowhere.
Instead, they will make the aggrieved parties, i.e. you look worse.
Be a man and instead of doing that, you guys could’ve flooded the police station with letters demanding justice.
12. February 2009 - 1:07 AM
Sandeep-M bro: You have no idea about the larger issues involved. These pubs have become pick-up joints where “liberated” Hindu girls are picked up by Muslim boys and fully liberated in their bedrooms. Too much liberalism without understanding which forces are actually encouraging such “liberalism” in Hindu youth is fraught with danger for one’s own race and civilisation.
12. February 2009 - 1:24 AM
Wasn’t this facebook grp. started by a christian, sumthin’ susan? She, as usual in a deep slumber, overlooked the padre harems or ‘convents’ where a sister abhaya or percy can be sexually abused or murdered for being witness to one but got her antennae’s up when Hindu’s agitate. Boo f*ckin hoo, who cares about these pink chaddi lunatics when they selectively start picking on ‘women’ issues. Do the facebook groupies include burka tents of islam or sex harems aka ‘convents’ of christianism in India?
12. February 2009 - 1:52 AM
Actually, whatever has been happening in Mangalore (New Life incident, Ram Sena, church “burning” and vandalism, pub brawl) has been orchestrated by the church. The church is hyping up these incidents through its agencies and some TV channels in which it has made hush-hush investments.
BJP’s win in Karnataka has shaken the church and put a spanner in its game plan of Christianising the whole of South India. In Karnataka, the Christians are concentrated in Mangalore. The church has a strong presence there. And guess which town is in the news ever since BJP came in power in Karnataka for incidents involving “Hindu Taliban”? Put two and two together.
12. February 2009 - 2:20 AM
HAI
PLZ MV Pub Chick > /dev/null 2>&1;
KTHXBYE
12. February 2009 - 2:53 AM
@Sanjay.
Don’t make me laugh. its late in the night, and your ridiculous notions of what actually goes on in a pub in Bangalore/Mangalore are partly the reasons behind goons from Ram Sena making this whole fuss.
Where do you get such ideas from anyway?
12. February 2009 - 3:06 AM
Sandeep M: You are a child in these civilisational games. Innocence is the biggest curse of the Hindu. You have to learn and read a lot. May I suggest http://www.voi.org (click on books).
PS: Is it true that the FB group you have joined was started by a Christian? (Wink! Wink!)
12. February 2009 - 6:07 AM
SANDEEP,
As aregular visitor of ur blog I was diappointed that you chose to respond to pubchick in a style that I have not seen on your blog.
More so because all the debates about shifting goalposts, debating with facts and numbers are futile. Pubchick represents the vast majority of the ‘liberals” whose world is confined to a very peculiar elite.
Do you seriously expect these beer soaked brains to “understand” logic or see facts. A single isolated attack has sent them to serious delirious withdrawls and you can hardly expect them to be coherent when all of what remains of their brains is looking for the next drop, worried it may not come through.
It requires intelligence and powers of abstraction to understand what Mr. Gupta is talking about. It is what “pubchick” and her ilk seem to have appropriated as symbols of liberalism. If having a drink is liberal I have known a lot more liberal women from Bastar, jhabua and Sargujha who could probably hold their drinks much better than any of these pink chaddi flag bearers. But then having a drink at a pub “is the only symbol of liberalism” just as speaking english is the “only proof of enlightment”
Also I would like to take this opportunity to convey my admiration for Mr. Man mohan Singh “non performer extraordinaire” . It is no mean skill to run a government with Ambumani “Nazi” Ramdoss with his smoking bans and Renuka “pub” Chowdhry with Pub bharo Andolans. My English fails at this point. Is this Irony or a plain joke or simple idiocy?
12. February 2009 - 8:09 AM
Sandeep, I don’t understand the fuss being made over “pub-culture”, if few a ladies and gentlemen want to go to a pub and lose their sobriety so be it why bring in the issue of culture? Isn’t it enough if “culture” is maintained/observed within the precincts of one’s own household?
Why should some ‘X’ tell some Set ‘S’ if it is right or wrong to go to a place, be it a brothel or a pub(no, for all “I-am-a-feminist” guys I am not equating both, just giving an example)
Why is it always that some people assume “moral superiority” (irrespective of how educated they are or what ideology they believe in) and instruct a select few to do or not to do what they want? For after all, if a man/woman don’t posses this basic level of independence what is the point living?
Yes, there is this whole question of whether what one is doing is right or wrong, but shouldn’t this conflict be reflected in the minds of the doer rather than being inflicted upon him/her?
12. February 2009 - 8:46 AM
Oh by the way I remembered
:)
“Kaadambari rasa gyanam aaharopi na rochate”(sorry if it mis-spelled)
12. February 2009 - 9:44 AM
Since the majority of idiots here want to call me liberal, I will become one. Now, let’s get to mathematics since none of you seem to have any idea about it. Here let’s start by assuming,
1. I live in Karnataka.
2. I earn Rs 120,000/ annum.
3. There are possibly 5 pubs in the City I live in, where people earning what I do frequent.
4. Tax data and population statistics shows, there are possibly less than 30000 people in Bangalore who belong to the category mentioned above.
5. Applying thresholds of pub going, that possibly comes down to 10000 even if we assume the higher end.
6. There are possibly 3 million horny men like those who write/ frequent this blog.
Now, will someone be a darling and do an entry cost analysis for being a terrorist and being a Muthalik, and extend that to a probability scenario? Or do I have to start with how multiple instances of visiting the same pub increases probability vis-a-vis a random terror strike. In fact, if one were smart, one could avoid Mosques, Temples and crowded markets where people of my ilk don’t go anyway, consequently reducing the terror probability to negligible when taken in consideration with entry costs .
Now, where is the man who wanted me to spread legs but was too limp to get in? Sandeep?
12. February 2009 - 10:32 AM
Pub Chick,
You made my day – “There are possibly 3 million horny men like those who write/ frequent this blog.”
- A cursory check of the wikipedia shows that the population of Bangalore is 6.2 million and 50% distribution will show there are only 3.1 million males in Bangalore.
If almost all the men Bangalore appear horny to you, then only thing that I can deduce is that run around naked in Bangalore.
You also make the frivolous statement “horny men like those who write/ frequent this blog ”
This is not a porno blog where horny people frequent.
“one could avoid Mosques, Temples and crowded markets where people of my ilk don’t go anyway, consequently reducing the terror probability to negligible”
The places targetted in mumbai attack includes Leopold Cafe, oberoi, Taj which are places frequented by so called liberals of the society. The US strategy journal Stratfor predicts more attacks on such targets.
- How many pub attacks have happened in last 1 year?
1
- How many terrorist attacks ?
May 13, 2008 – Seven bombs rip through the crowded streets of the western city of Jaipur, killing at least 63 in markets and outside Hindu temples.
July 25 – Eight small bombs hit the IT city of Bangalore, killing one woman and wounding at least 15.
July 26 – At least 16 small bombs explode in Ahmedabad in the state of Gujarat, killing 45 and wounding 161. A little-known group called the “Indian Mujahideen” claims responsibility for the attack and the May 13 attack in Jaipur.
Sept. 13 – At least five bombs explode in crowded markets and streets in the heart of New Delhi, killing at least 23 and injuring more than 100. The Indian Mujahideen again claim responsibility.
Oct. 30 – Eleven bomb blasts in quick succession ripped through the main city of India’s troubled northeastern Assam state and three other towns on Thursday, killing 76 and wounding at least 320.
26 Nov: Mumbai attack.
12. February 2009 - 10:35 AM
@ PC
Some good info though..
Earning just 120K pa and able to frequent pubs in K’taka?? There is something wrong.. Are pubs offering 90% discounts these days or are you calling Toddy shops pubs??
My driver who earns slightly more buys cheap liquor on outer ring road and drinks at the same shop – because he can’t afford to go to a pub
Pl. give the names of those cheap pubs for my driver’s benefit (only if they are not toddy shops)..
12. February 2009 - 10:37 AM
Sandeep,
You disappointed me by arguing with the Pub Chick.. Pl. never repeat it.
12. February 2009 - 10:46 AM
Raghu, I missed a 0. Excuse.
Sudhir, if you want to make mathematics out of an intended insult, good luck!
12. February 2009 - 10:47 AM
And, by the way, the author of this blog wanted this restricted to Karnataka. Not me! So, redo your numbers. Raghu darling.
12. February 2009 - 10:56 AM
Pub Chick,
Was the maths so difficult that you give such a reason?
I didn’t find it insulting I found it utterly ridiculous when you said that there are 3 million horny men in Bangalore.
Here’s something which you can ponder over. If you stay with your family in bangalore then be careful when you go back home next time. Because there will be some horny men in your family as well – 3 million number.
12. February 2009 - 11:25 AM
No dimwit.
I gave the math and you picked the insult.
12. February 2009 - 11:35 AM
Raghu/all,
Like I said, I give it back as good as I get it. If you note, my responses weren’t arguments per se in the same sense as you’ve seen me argue/respond to on other posts.
Pub Chick came here to satisfy an itch, to provoke folks here. Let’s not disappoint her.
12. February 2009 - 11:38 AM
Pub Chick,
I clearly asked you to frame your argument.
And no darling, I wasn’t limp to get in. Two factors dissuaded me from easing your perpetual itch. The first, like I said is the stink that has now become all-encompassing. The second, I realized is the fact that ordinary mortals can’t get in there. Try a banyan tree.
12. February 2009 - 11:51 AM
No retard. You were too dumb and limp.
You asked for a statistical evidence to a probability conjecture. Which only means, you did not pass either you statistics or your probability class.
And not to mention, your insult class too. Worry not, I’ll teach you.
12. February 2009 - 12:08 PM
Pub Chick,
Not bad, you’re back. You are confirmed masochist now. But I’m curious that for your self-proclaimed indulgence in “loads of sex,” you seem to be wasting a lot of time commenting in my blog. No customers…err…lovers of late eh?
12. February 2009 - 12:11 PM
Dude, given you failed all the math classes, you don’t even have sex to show for it? Sad.
How do all nuts run when asked to divide? Is there some nutter school somewhere?
12. February 2009 - 12:23 PM
Pub Chick – i hope you comdemn murders of islam faith, as you comdemn lunatics like Muthalik. You need to go to a pro-Islamic blog and spew venom on idiots that throw acid on women for not wearing purdah and forcibly marry rape victims to the perperators…
People that visit this blog dont support people that kill for faith or past time, or throw acid nor marry rape victims to the rapists. We are not much fun.
You can show your statistical skills and language skills, to people of certain faith who even deem a discussion worthless with women folk.
and come back here to narrate your experiences…
12. February 2009 - 12:36 PM
2bornot2b, I am not running for an office and I have no time to condemn, when there is sex to be had and idiots online to enjoyed.
12. February 2009 - 12:37 PM
In fact, I assume Muthalik says the same thing. He needs sex too — pity is, he is too ugly. But that does not make me condemn him or his humor.
12. February 2009 - 12:44 PM
Pub Chick,
This has gone on far too long and your last comment only reaffirms my conclusion that you’re here only for frivolity. Hope you’ve had your fill. Here’s my very LAST take.
1. Since you love talking math and probability and statistics, here you go: ever heard of lies, damned lies, and statistics? Also, for every probability there’s a Murphy’s Law. Look it up since the space between your legs seems to be free now.
2. Don’t you understand the meaning of “get lost and don’t ever come back?” Or do you need a butcher’s knife to make an impact on your Dinosaurish hide?
One more frivolous comment, and I’m going to close this thread.
12. February 2009 - 12:49 PM
You can’t do math and resort to idiotic statements and use that “prove”? Cool!
And I thought you were initially worried that I will not come back,. Now you are worried I do. Touche!
12. February 2009 - 12:59 PM
Pub Chick,
So that seals it. You’re the living proof of the proverb that fighting with pigs (bitches in this case) is futile: the pig enjoys the slush but you get dirty.
Folks,
I’m closing this thread.