Guest Post: On Why I think the Pink Panties Pub Culture is Uncool
Saturday, 14. February 2009 - 10:37 PM
Guest Author: Oldtimer
There is this funny spectacle of some people waving pink panties and claiming that they are staging a “protest”.
That’s right. Pink and Protest. See the connection? Obvious, duh!
Showing pink panties is as serious a method of protest as shaving your head clean Sinead O’Connor style and tattooing a picture of Bob Marley on the skull. This may appear “novel” to some adolescents but Woodstock-era hippies had done it all long ago, while smoking joints and asking people to make love, not war.
If you organize to fight for what you believe is a serious cause, the seriousness shows in the methods of protest you choose. Gandhi may have worn the loin cloth to identify himself with the people, but he didn’t elevate it to the status of a symbol of protest.
So what explains Un-Tight Women’s Consortium’s Pink Panties stunt?
Well, I’d like to give them the benefit of doubt, and assume that they just happen to be a bit loopy in the head. Perhaps their choice reflects their level of maturity.
Apart from the method of protest chosen, there are some other aspects of this whole pink panties shebang that make it look very suspicious to me, but in this post I confine myself to discussing the wackos’ advocacy of “pub culture”.
“What is wrong with pub culture?” the Pink Pantiers ask angirly. “It’s my lifestyle and I have a right to live it!” they hiss as menacingly as if they’ve got a couple of cobras lodged in their large intestines.
But, heck, indeed, what is wrong with “pub culture”? What is wrong with a sea of pink panties extending on the horizon, as far as you can see?
Let us try and answer this question.
But to begin with, since the pink panties collectors are the normal people, and we are not, we cannot assume that their idea of “pub culure” resembles even remotely what we might think it is.
Most of us abnormal people make either of two choices: we don’t drink at all or we drink abnormally. By the latter, I mean that, speaking in abnormal terms, we drink “responsibly”. Some of us perhaps even visit pubs.
But abnormality is not in the style of the “pub culture” of our Woodstock-vintage dude. Remember: Pink Panties are the symbol of his angst.
He wants to hit the bar scene with his lady in tow, who he wants to dress “normally” so that his pals know what a gorgeous “loose” and “forward” babe he patao’ed. He would empty a barrel of beer down his alimentary canal in one pub, and then “crawl” to another to drown in the contents of another barrel. If the more adventurous type, he would visit the loo and snort some dope. Getting laid is on his mind too, but sometimes, he’s stuck with an abnormal quasi-bharat-naari type who is frustrating his designs to get to fourth base.
He knows of course that pub culture is not a stupid desi invention. Great Britain, being great and all, pioneered it all. It is very far advanced in this Pink Panties kind of pub culture, though some abnormal Britons dub it “binge drinking”. The desi dude wants the most authentic experience, the Great British experience.
The abnormal, occasional pub-visitor generally avoids the cultured pubs that the Pink Panties crowd favors. He feels out of place in that refined environment. He cannot match the linguistic sophistication exhibited in these pub cultures. Overheard conversations go like this:
“Hey, fuck, is that ya, man! Fuckin long time dude! And ya got some cool shit there! Where the fuck did ya get that?”
“Oh, no big fuckin deal man (shrug) . Just ten grand or (shrug, roll eyes) .. maybe a hundred or .. (give up) .. oh fuck it, man, I fuckin forgot. Hey look at that slut over there. Fuckin hot chick man!”
And so on.
So what’s wrong with the Pink Panties Punk’s “pub culture”?
Well, I can’t put my finger on it precisely, but it seems to me that it is the culture of losers. It seems to me that a smarter guy has more important things to do in life than collect pink panties as a mark of protest. But at the same time, we have to acknowledge an important point: yes, he has a right to living his lifestyle, he has a right to collect pink panties. Look down on his pub culture, despise it, feel revolted by it, but you cannot say that the government should ban it.
Tags: Facebook Group, Guest Post by Oldtimer, Indian Urban Youth, Pink Panties Protest, Protest against Muthalik, Pub Culture, Society & Culture
15. February 2009 - 2:24 AM
what a load of baloney.
I can’t quite believe that so many people, who otherwise are well educated and worldly wise, can’t quite get the irony behind the whole pink panty protest.
15. February 2009 - 4:22 AM
oldtimer, don’t you know that “getting wasted” is a sign of maturity that engenders respect among my peers? Freedom to puke outside the pub, or on the road or in the three-wheeler/car is a testament of my culture as well as a time-tested ritual. Don’t you dare criticize or scrutinize such a cool tradition which I’ve adopted after much thought!!
15. February 2009 - 5:04 AM
OT bhai,
If people of your and Sandeep’s stature feel its worth investing time on such a useless exercise, what can I say…
Yes. Terrorism is still not a valid poll plank. Yes, the rural population is still caste and yes, roti-kapda-makaan driven, the urban population is more enthralled by bollywood, cricket, and of course pink chaddis.
But still, think about it…
15. February 2009 - 8:58 AM
Oldtimer, yes, calling the other person a loser is certainly an option. Especially when the first person isn’t getting any.
15. February 2009 - 9:23 AM
Alright, I just read some classic satire. but was it worth the penny?
“the culture of losers” but isn’t an analysis of losers a futile waste of time, effort and intellect in this case?
Pubchick you ought to learn a few basics of debating, honey!
15. February 2009 - 10:42 AM
Oldtimer and Sandeep,
I don’t see any point in arguing with the pantyless folks.
They will make an issue anyway. If you look at the facebook discussion of the it is more of an anti-BJP protest rather than any pro-freedom or women liberation as the organisation claims.
There were no answers when commentators posed the question as to why there was no protest from the liberated ones to incident like sister Abhaya Rape by pastor or Tapasi Malick rape and burning by CPM or Taslima Nasreen incident in Hyderabad or Duktaran e- Millet in Kashmir or Kidnapping in Mangalore of the MLA by DYFI members. The only standard reply to those questions were “you are a RSS/BJP/SRS stooge”.
A couple of comments expressed shock that there was no major Valentine day celebration in Mangalore this time which was attributed the fear of SRS. But as far as I remember there was no valentine day celebration in Mangalore in any past years.
Why there is no credit for Karnataka police for making arrests of trouble creators before hand and a safe passage of Valentine’s Day. (I still do not understand what make feb 14 special that extreme emotions of love has to flow on this day. What is wrong with other day. Maybe I am too backward to understand this)
The way the media and the liberated pantyless has tried to portray things reminds me of Bush after 9/11. “If you are not with us then you are with them” By this logic we become backward, tight (un-loose) stooges of RSS/BJP/SRS.
Pub Chick,
Welcome backs. Any more fantastic number or statistics this time
15. February 2009 - 11:41 AM
My first visit to your blog Sandeep and I’m already disappointed. Disappointed with the stupid Male chauvinism on display. There’s no doubt the arguments have gone on and on on your previous post which has further complicated the entire debate and got into everyone’s head. What that’s doing is getting away from the point.
The point is Oldtimer, you and all your male supporters will never know how it feels like being smacked for no fault of yours and being completely powerless to do anything about it. Such helplessness evokes strange reactions, angry thoughts and at times, silly ways to protest. But that doesn’t take away anything from the way they might feel.
Yes they’ve shifted goal posts to women abuse, women freedom and some other much talked about issues but how can you be sure that these issues are not at the heart of this matter.
I wish, I was brave enough to protest against some guy who smacks me on the head for no fault of mine. However outrageous this protest may seem, the point is what happened in Mangalore was as worse as anything could get.
I believe, it might be worse than terrorism because at least terrorists do not have any supporters in this country.
And on top of that, this post above is so f*#$%ing out of the point. Yes, you do have the right to call the pub goers a bunch of losers whose conversations might be as stupid as you mention but using that to try and find fault with the basic idea behind the protest is criminal and reeks of a chauvinist mentality.
How can you be so primitive by assuming that all pub going men and women are either looking to get drunk or get laid. I’ve not been to a pub more than 5 times in my life (not because I despise the lifestyle or anything of that sort) But I’m sure that every pub is not just a cheap pick up joint which you seem to portray in your post above.
Yes, If you wish that the government bans pubs, go about doing your protest in a peaceful and howsoever innovative manner as you may, and then if some women (or even men) stand up in a peaceful anti-protest, then you may be justified in writing posts like the above. But not at a time when the basic issue is something so serious as the Mangalaore incident.
Looking at the type of comments and abuses being hurled in the previous post, I first thought of posting this comment under a nickname but sense prevailed. Go on, shower me with your love.
15. February 2009 - 12:30 PM
For me, both the SRS and the CPGLFW have the same intent – Grab headlines, get your proverbial two minutes of fame and bask in the glory of its aftermath. The lofty ideals of women liberation and protecting Indian culture be damned.
Both of these groups represent wasteful negative energies and will never achieve anything productive. Not that they intend to either. Thankfully, such fringe groups are absolutely irrelevant in a larger context.
My only message to both, accompanied by the profane middle finger – “Grow up and get a life…!!!”
15. February 2009 - 1:58 PM
pubchick, you’ve demonstrated you’re an eternal beacon of hope for women (and individual)lib thru your rather convoluted arguments and not to forget statistics. But perhaps next time Taslima Nasreen is heckled or tossed around like a tennis-ball in India, you could spare a thing or two from your wardrobe if not Pink Panties for those goons as well !
15. February 2009 - 5:45 PM
i remember when Miss World contest was held in Bangalore, Amitabh Bachchan the feminist briagade were up in arms against the event. How times change.
15. February 2009 - 6:32 PM
Where did this “female empowerment” brigade dissappear when Taslima Nasreen was being abused and pushed around by the Muslim thugs? Bloody cowards, debauched and morally corrupt, that is what this Pink Panty gang is all about.
15. February 2009 - 11:16 PM
>>My first visit to your blog Sandeep and I’m already disappointed.
I feel sorry for you for being so dejected, but there’s no point expressing your sadness because Sandeep never promised that he will make you happy.
>>I believe, it might be worse than terrorism because at least terrorists do not have any supporters in this country.
Which country? UAE?
Anybody who trivializes — like commies for example — terrorism using ANY pretext is a supporter of terrorism in my book. The rabbi’s wife in Nariman House was sexually tortured before she was killed. If you are not able to comprehend the pain on account of being male, you should ask somebody who has a vagina and a pair of breasts.
Next time you fake outrage — using a female avtar perhaps — make sure you don’t bring in needless comparisons rationalizing the murder of innocent people.
While on the subject: I thought the pink panties types are just frivolous people like hippies and punks, but are they also supporters of terrorism?
16. February 2009 - 1:14 AM
Rakesh,
Thanks for your post. You just supported my statements. Didn’t I mention about the liberated souls catch phrase “You are with us or you are with them”.
Am I supporting the Ram Sena guys – No. They deserve no better than jail cells. (Actually I was bit disappointed that the BJP government in Karnataka has not exploited this crisis. I am a great fan of Henry Kissinger’s ??? words – No crisis should go un-exploited. If yeddi had acted within 2- 4 hrs of the airing of the clip on MSM it would have gone a long way in the propaganda of BJP govt. Ya you guessed it right – I am a BJP supporter)
Am I supporting the panty guys – No. Because their motives makes me suspicious. The way they have suddenly woken up now after this incident giving the exalted status to Muthalik smells fishy.
Let me give you more instances – When the panty website came up, it contained the photo of RSS? But why RSS when SRS is no way related to RSS and RSS had said that they have no problem with ban on SRS. (I don’t know how many state governments in past have banned organisations for such incidents. Please enlighten me. You guessed it right again – I am an RSS supporter as well)
If you look the facebook of this group, you will feel more like a site of propaganda against BJP. Women liberation or propaganda against BJP???? (The images associated with this facebook group also includes an image of Sadhu in Pinkish Langoti. If it was fight against Muthalik why image of Sadhu)
Time and again commentators on this site as well as others have pointed out other incidents which never fell on the radar of these panty group. Let me point to you one more – http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/mundogari-in-haryana-is-a-village-where-osama-will-be-at-home_100674.html. So after the “successful” campaign against Muthalik don’t you think the panty gang should be marching into the Mundogari village with panties stung on a stick to lead few unlucky souls into the liberated world.
Anyway I do not expect an answer to my questions. But please do not post repeated the oft repeated cliche of ” you are an RSS/BJP/SRS stooge” for an answer. I expect something better.
16. February 2009 - 2:33 AM
These incidents (with cameramen of NDTV reaching the venue well in advance) and the “reactions” all over India in response to these incidents are being stage-managed by forces outside the borders of the country. I have a strong feeling that the Christian Ummah is responsible.
Congress courtiers are just useful idiots for these forces. They will be thrown away as used condoms once the pan-India agenda of these outside forces has been successfuly met. The Congress stooges by being complicit in this agenda are causing damage much larger than their station in life.
16. February 2009 - 7:49 AM
Ummm, dude who asked me numbers — the author of this blog failed his math classes. So, we should find a new place to troll.
16. February 2009 - 9:18 AM
Pub Chick,
Nice to know that you are safe from the 3 million horny men who are after you. I thought I will not see your comment here again as you had said that the probability of these men beating you up is very high.
16. February 2009 - 9:24 AM
This is bit off-topic
This was one of the comments on offstumped.nationalinterest.in
” I am writing from Mangalore and live very near to the posh hotel where the socalled Mainstream media is camping since long. A OB van also is parked outside the college opposite the hotel.Everyday the reporters stand near the college gate and ask questions to boys and girls on various topics and pick up whatever point suits them. In the evening the reporters visit nearby police stations (They dont go too far )and look for any crime story be it pickpocketing small brawls near bars or whatever and try and see if any of these stories can be connected to the pub story .
1- That is what happened in the MLA daughter`s “abductionâ€,â€Kidnappingâ€etc case.The story had lot of “potentialâ€.So the reporters ran to their A/C rooms to flash their stories on their laptops.True or not -at any cost they have to link it to the “Moral Policing†theory and also be the first to report beating the reporters from other channels in the adjucent rooms.
2- Further, after two days there was a case of a school girl who committed suicide in a rural area far away from Mangalore.That was perhaps a case of molestation . Immediately our famous “Talibanisation “MSM linked all the three stories and announced the MLA`s daughter committed suicide and showed the pub video once again .One cannot imagine how low journalism can stoop to!
Now ,people all over India and even abroad are asking what has gone wrong with Mangalore -a town with 100%literacy,having three universities,with at least a hundred colleges,a city known for also cultural activities, religeous centres ,Medical specialities,a birthplace of 4 nationalised banks.
The fact is ,nothing has gone wrong.In Any major city ,there are a few such happenings.Relatively ,in India Mangalore is one of the most peaceful places -a paradise for retired people.
During all the reported happenings (as reported by the MSM)Mangalore was as peaceful as ever.The MSM reported that women and girls are scared to venture out in the evenings etc. A huge 5 day car festival in the local Sri Venkatramana Temple(just less than half a kilometer from their hotel) had gathering more than normal.On the final day,27000 people ate at the temple dinner.Women and young girls were participating in the festivities even till 4=00am wearing
best of dresses and heavy jewellery in typically mangalorean style..Many of thenm walked home as the city is not that large geographically.The climax was the `Vokkul` celebration akin to the north Indian Holi when water tankers were sprinkling water on young revellers with participation from men ,women and children . The local media caught it all live . But our MSM -a few of them were present had forgotten their cameras and OB vans. at the hotel.In fact that was “India`s Shame†There were many other festivities involving Chritians ,Muslims and even college fests.Before that there was thi s Alva`s Virasat -a very wellknown cultural extravaganza of international fame in a suburban place called Moodabidri.Managalore was as vibrant as ever .Only our media was projecting Mangalore as a “Talibanised†place while enjoying the lavish Mangalorean hospitality.
Mangaloreans cutting across party affiliations,religion whatever are all terribly upset with the so called mainstream media.We find our good old
local tv channels are far more responsible and neutral.As far as Mangaloreans are concerned MSM is no more MSM for us.They are out to spoil the good name of Mangalore. The beneficiary is Mutallik and the Sriramsena. Very few in Mangalore knew them earlier .Now whole India knows .That much for our freedom of press-”
16. February 2009 - 10:16 AM
OT,
There’s no point discussing this with you since you’ve already assumed that the entire pub going crowed is a bunch of loosers. I do not think this is a rational assumption and so I cannot expect a rational discussion from you. Sudhir’s response makes a lot of argumentative sense.
Sudhir,
I can see that you are not supporting the SRS and neither do I say that if you’re not with the pink panty group, you are against them. But please read the above post again.
What the above post says, is not about pink panties or SRS. It just says in plain simple words that every pub going individual is a looser who uses the F word in every darn statement; And the intellectual ones stay away from pubs (coz. théy’ve got better things to do, like write blog posts). The above post ridicules someone’s sense of dressing without any logic.
If you read my comment, I tend to agree that the ppc was a tad silly but the fact that yeddi didn’t act within 2 to 4 hours also smells fishy. Doesn’t it? And because yeddi didn’t act, these women thought of something outrageous and silly.
If they featured RSS on the website, that is no doubt wrong and if they’ve taken that picture down, it tells you that they understood their mistake. I’m not going with anyone who blames BJP/RSS for this. (Those are different issues and much more controversial. Here I won’t even tell you whether I’m a BJP supporter or not coz. it’ll take away from this argument.)
The argument that if you stand up for this, you gotta stand up for every wrong in the country, I don’t see much logic in that.
But the underlying point is the above post taking a dig at the pub going crowd was totally unwarranted, had no logic and had an implied justification like the one which says “If girls roam around at night, they deserved to be assaulted.”
And I’m not going to call you a BJP/RSS stooge, not on this discussion at least coz. I’d like to stick to the point.
16. February 2009 - 10:30 AM
And while we’re on this topic, I think this post http://thecapeofgoodhope.blogspot.com/2009/02/of-pink-chaddis-pink-condoms-naked.html makes a lot more sense out of this entire issue and the Hypocrisy involved. Even it finds faults with the PCC Campaign but at least acknowledges the basic intent. Not like your OT here who is way out of synch.
16. February 2009 - 11:19 AM
@OldTimer:
If you organize to fight for what you believe is a serious cause, the seriousness shows in the methods of protest you choose.
Not always true. At its very root, the issue is whether people have a right to live the way they want within the limits imposed by law. We all know how important such a right is in a society as diverse as ours. This is, of course, not to endorse the means of protest, that you rightly call juvenile.
But abnormality is not in the style of the “pub culture†of our Woodstock-vintage dude.
Sarcasm apart, you make sweeping generalizations in subsequent statements. Perhaps you should think again if you have sufficient basis to form such a firm opinion.
@ Rakesh:
However outrageous this protest may seem, the point is what happened in Mangalore was as worse as anything could get.
I believe, it might be worse than terrorism because at least terrorists do not have any supporters in this country.
Surely you must be joking. Have you forgotten the Mumbai terror attacks already? Do you know that people within the country were involved? Just one example of something ‘worse’ than some people being roughed up in a pub.
Either you are making a big deal about a bunch of thugs (that can be dealt by local police) or don’t understand what terrorism is.
16. February 2009 - 11:41 AM
@ Photonman: I’m not at all comparing this with terrorism. Not at all. I’m just saying that even these thugs were outright wrong but i’m disappointed at the support (however implied) they are garnering for their cause through posts such as these.
It wasn’t just some people being roughed up in a pub. It was a particular gender being hit violently by a bunch of goons in full public view for no fault of theirs whatsoever. The Mumbai killings pained me and so do these pictures.
No I haven’t forgotten Mumbai and never will. But these bunch of thugs weren’t dealt with by the local police and that sparked this silly protest.
16. February 2009 - 12:16 PM
Hello Rakesh from Dubai,
>>There’s no point discussing this with you since you’ve already assumed that the entire pub going crowed is a bunch of loosers. I do not think this is a rational assumption
The moment your justification of the terrorists’ sexual assault on women is mentioned, you want to back out. This is not rational.
Pink panties cannot be the symbol of protest of those who seriously believe they are ranged against a dangerous and powerful enemy that they really fear. How about Medha Patkar and Arundhati Roy launching a “green g-strings” campaign to protest against the evil governments building the dam? Imagine the headlines:
“G-Strings for Narmada, says Medha”
“THE GODDESS OF SMALL THONGS”
Dramatic, won’t it be?
How about sending “red colored thongs” to Jyoti Basu and comrades so that communists won’t repeat the Nandigram rapes? There is far greater likelihood of an Indian woman getting raped in the rice fields of West Bengal by gun-toting comrades of CPIM than there is pub-going untight women getting attacked in the cities of India.
Ergo, I must assume either that
the pink panties punks are shallow, frivolous adoloscents swayed by second-hand opinion being incapable of thinking on their own feet;
or that they are actually pretty crafty and cunning propagandists whose very objective is to take peoples’ minds off — with stunts like pink panties — the incidents of grotesque sexual assault on women by terrorists and commies.
Take your pick.
16. February 2009 - 12:33 PM
Photonman,
>>Sarcasm apart, you make sweeping generalizations in subsequent statements
The blog post is about the presumed pub culture of the pink panties types. The “generalization” follows naturally from the silly stance of a counter-culture that describes itself as “loose” women and waves pink panties — thinking all the while perhaps that it is being “defiant” and “courageous”.
I’m very open to be told that no, the pink panties punks stand for responsible drinking, and that they are opposed to doing drugs, and that they stand for sexual responsibility and safe sex practices. It is for Nisha Susan and her puppeteers (Tehelka?) to issue a statement of that sort and clear things up.
16. February 2009 - 12:42 PM
Rakesh,
“It just says in plain simple words that every pub going individual is a looser who uses the F word in every darn statement; And the intellectual ones stay away from pubs (coz. théy’ve got better things to do, like write blog posts). The above post ridicules someone’s sense of dressing without any logic.”
I guess every one in this country is entitled to have his or her opinion. If I don’t like it, it is my problem. You also have an opinion when you say – “I believe, it might be worse than terrorism because at least terrorists do not have any supporters in this country.”
I absolutely hate this opinion of yours because innocents have lost their life for no fault of theirs. If you say that local hooligans are worse than terrorists then god save this country. But its your opinion. Good for you.
“The argument that if you stand up for this, you gotta stand up for every wrong in the country, I don’t see much logic in that.”
So you avoid answering by telling me what is logical and what is not. Let me frame the question in slightly different way – What was the main reason that this pub-incident generated this response and not the rape of Tapasi Malick in WB whose burnt body was subsequently discovered from a field. To add insult to injury the West Bengal CM went to say that “people have been paid back in the same coin” Okay forget this. Let me stick to this one incident without any comparisons.
What prevented the panties from blaming (or sending them few assorted pieces of lingerie to Rajdeep Sardesai or Prannoy Roy) the media persons who were conveniently present there ready for action,did not inform the police so that the entire incident could have been prevented, made no attempt to protect the innocent girls from the goons, got the best shot to be subsequently played on the media.
If these people had so much conviction as you want us to believe then why did they not encourage the victims to file complaints against the goons. This would have fetched lesser publicity than the panty but definitely helped in securing a much harsher punishment that these goons deserve.
Thanks to media for elevating Mangalore in the same league as Swat, NWFP, FATA (in Pakistan) with slogans like “Talibanisation of Mangalore” etc.
16. February 2009 - 2:21 PM
Regarding the previous Kanchan’s post, I disagree with
//What is material and important is whether those around the individuals — in a street, a park, a café or a restaurant — are comfortable with it; if they feel discomfited or outraged, then their sensitivities must over-ride the presumed right to make a spectacle of yourself in public.//
16. February 2009 - 4:55 PM
Sudhir,
That could have been true had I been stupid or slightly poorer.
Anyway, trolling horny men for fun is getting boring even. No wonder those guys barged into pubs and got enraged when chicks got what they never had.
16. February 2009 - 5:26 PM
I disagree with the nature of the protest (Pink Chaddies and all), and disgusted with the obvious political motive behind the campaign (tarring the BJP, RSS et al).
However, the Pink brigade has a right to indulge in whatever frivolous modes of protest they wish to – if it exposes their lack of ‘taste’ or ‘seriousness’, it comes with the turf.They may have recd much more public support if they had carefully nuanced their position.That they wish to NOT do so, is their choice.I am fine with that.
What I am not fine with is the tarring of any one who opposes TPCC as ‘Hindu Taliban’.I reserve the right to feel disgusted by Muthalik’s goons and also laugh at the stupidity of TPCC.
The saddest part is that everything and any thing of importance to the Nation has become a BJP Vs Congress kind of scenario.The english langauge media is playing the lawyer, judge and jury in all these issues, and national interest is being sacrificed as a result.
On the one hand, Sandeep and sundry others fail to get the irony behind the naming of the consortium. (Well, it is stupid of Nisha Susan to name the consortium that way, because the irony is bound to be missed.) OTOH, Old Timer has done a honest, if tepid attempt at sarcasm, and the predictable comments from ‘liberals’ have started.
Kanchan Gupta’s piece gets one thing right; he is raising the question – is liberalism the same as being a libertine? And what is ‘liberal’ in the Indian context?
It is a much better way of spending our time if we discuss the core issue that Kanchan has brought out.This post by Old Timer, and the exchange between Pub Chick and others on the previous thread – all these leave a bad taste in the mouth.Are we incapable of having a civil discussion?If I disagree with TPCC, I become a Hindu Taliban.If I critique Old Timer, I become accused as a ‘comrade’. Ultimately, is it the Pub Chicks and the Old Timers who get to define the contours of the debate?
16. February 2009 - 6:18 PM
Pink chaddi compaign reminds me of the study by the great Prof Pandey: The cultural subjugation of Bharat by India (http://pandey.ru/blog/taratatiana/18/the-cultural-subjugation-of-bharat-by-india-a-deconstruction-of-savita-bhabhi/)
First the rustic Bharat protested an attack on its culture and then the elite India with support from the elite mainstream media repulsed the attack with great force (it is similar to the British response to 1857) and subjugated rustic Bharat
16. February 2009 - 6:26 PM
pubchick, as I mentioned in poin 10, you’ve emerged a beacon of hope of womens lib in India and you cited a strong statistic for the motivation that you have to carry on your campaign against these goons. So, instead of responding in sexual innuendos and being obsessed with numbers may be you shoud address the larger issue which also falls under your purview of womens lib–would you spare a thing or two from your wadrobe the next time you have goons heckling Taslima Nasreen, tossing her around?..Green panties may be?..or as one poster here rightly mentioned..may be red thongs for the Commies in WB for allowing the rape of a woman in the (killing) fields of Nandigram?
I’d prefer that you respond intelligently rather than use tautology and mind games to your advantage.
16. February 2009 - 6:57 PM
N Shah, women’s lib is not on my agenda. My orgasms are.
This, is not a tautology but a fundamental philosophical difference that I thought was resolved in Renaissance Europe. Strangely though, the author of this blog and many of those who comment here seem to go back to it without any advantage to their own positions. It really baffles me as to why you or the others here assume every individual has to represent some group or be bothered about anything other than their own selves. Of course, they may be, but the assumption of having to is way past its sell by date. About 3 – 4 centuries.
16. February 2009 - 7:01 PM
OT and Sandeep, I hope you have read this article from the organiser…
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=277&page=19
16. February 2009 - 7:17 PM
Kedar,
Seriously, this Organizer article supports Dr Tara Tatiana Pandey’s theory!!
16. February 2009 - 10:47 PM
“The argument that if you stand up for this, you gotta stand up for every wrong in the country, I don’t see much logic in that.”
~~~~~~~~
Rakesh, the argument is that injustices happening in India have no religion, since an injustice is an injustice. But when the theory of injustice is selectively applied only to certain incidents and not others, and there’s a clear pattern of this selection based solely on religion by “activists” who raise the flags of “secularism” and “equality” but are blind to their own communal selection of injustices to protest against, then it needs to be pointed out.
Yes, I agree with you that it is impractical to raise one’s voice against *all* injustices, but what’s happening in India goes beyond that, as there’s a clear pattern of which injustices invite the vocal protesters and which ones make them slink away. The same is true of the media.
So, either India is a secular country where religion should not be a factor in fighting injustices since they are all happening in India, or these very vocal pick-and-choose activists know deep in their hearts that the Hindutva theory is correct – they just don’t have the guts to admit it publicly since they are closeted Hindus or anti-Hindu.
17. February 2009 - 11:50 AM
I am certain that most of the Indians, living in poor villages would not have heard about the pubs/pub culture in the first place. I am sure, most couldn’t be bothered about the Mangalore incident. They have better things to do with their time and life, like, trying to eat at least one meal a day and find a decent place to live.
Enough said about Pinkies/Ram senna, etc, let us move to some other useful subject.
17. February 2009 - 1:48 PM
I am pub going, a proud Hindu and a BJP supporter, and don’t understand what one thing has to do with another. In the whole fight on this (non) issue between the liberals and the conservatives, I feel like I am unfairly getting abused by both sides, for I am neither a fanatic Hindu nerd nor some loose, retarded drunk.
I feel Ot’s article fails like the pink chaddi movement, as the sarcasm intended by both is lost on most.
While pink chaddis now are looked upon as promoters of loose behaviour, its not quite clear whether Ot thinks only pink chaddis or all pub goers or all drunkards(which should include those drinking at local shops) are demented apes. Although hating on any three of them at this point is just taking away from the larger problem of the politicisation and communalising of this event.
Sudhir raises valid points, but isn’t it ironic that while the BJP and most “right wing supporters” here have spoken against the actions of the Ram Sene goons, they’re still left defending the anti- hindutva angle it’s taken. The best way to counter that would be to stick to an unconditional and undefensive condemnation of this reprehensible act and prevent this ‘us vs. them’ feeling from emerging in smart yet modern young people. Otherwise you will only succeed in isolating a promising if impressionable demographic and turning them “anti right-wing.”
As far as the Pink chaddis are concerned, they are silly. But then so are many other groups we’re forced to endure, like People For Animals and the Billu Barber protesters for instance… hehe.. they’re best ignored. Peace Out!
17. February 2009 - 2:35 PM
Yes the pink panties pub culture is not my culture and the pink panties women do NOT represent me.
I enjoy an occasional drink with my office colleagues, in pubs, restaurants or at home, but would I am loath to associate myself with them for the following reasons.
1. Their mode of their panties protest is (rightly in my view) being seen an act of buffoonery
2. They have only ended up reinforcing a public stereotype that women who enjoy a drink are “loose” and “forward”.
3. The leaders seem to be Tehelka plants. This is a magazine that has degraded women by paying sex workers to secretly film them. That the pink parties Tehelka workers consciously took a decision to work for an entity as unscrupulous as Tehelka is worrisome in itself. Couple that fact with #2 above; the consequences are dark. Women who drink — Tehelka’s use of sex workers — Tehelka’s journalists — “Loose” and “forward”.
I will be a little uncomfortable the next time I visit a pub.
17. February 2009 - 3:03 PM
I think it is really ridiculous that pink panties are being discussed this much! They are just some urban girls having some fun and why make too much of it.
You see, I think it was Cindy Lauper who sang about girls wanna have fun. Spice Girls came along and spread around the concept of Girl Power. Pussycat Dolls came along and said the same thing, their own way.
So we have at long last Indian answer to Cindy Lauper, Spice Girls and Pussycat Dolls. Why analyze this new trend too much? is my question.
17. February 2009 - 3:29 PM
OT
Its amusing to see how much the “serious and intellectual”
guys talk only to prove that a certain “frivolous” group is not worth talking about at all.
It makes sense to explain someone why their assumptions ( abt ‘pink chaddi’)
are unwarranted if you know they are honestly lost on sarcasm.
Not you!
because i can see that in consequent post, you also talk about controlled drinking and responsible
sexual behavior. Gr8..so you do know that the sweeping generalization you initially make in your article
are not all true.
Coming to their manner of protest, i would say its the most fitting reply. Why?
Because Muthalik not just broke the law, he did all this sitting on moral high horse.
The idea behind “pink chaddis” was to get him off that high horse , NOT the law and order aspect of it.
hence comparison with rabbis wife, tapasi mullick ( deeply disturbing as they are) are not relevant here.
In conclusion, may i remind you that concern for terrorism and moral policing are not mutually exclusive…
rather additive.
17. February 2009 - 4:29 PM
Prabha,
“This is a magazine that has degraded women by paying sex workers to secretly film them. ”
That is a good point.
Nandini,
Anybody who pulls a stunt knowing it is a stunt does so by assuming moral high ground. Whether muthalik or Tehelka’s pink panty girls. Suppose you wanted to pay a prostitute to entertain a customer and then secretly film it all. What will you do? You will claim that you are doing it for “public good”. That is moral highground.
Being sponsored by tehelka, naturally, the pink panty women took oral high ground, no pun intended. if they are not the butt of ridicule why do you think multiple-personality-disorder commies are all over the place trying to lend them credibility? They don’t have to work hard, don’t you think, if tampons and pink panties did the work for them? All they have to do is make pink panties their election symbol and claim that the “youth of india” (that is, pink panty girls
) are going to vote CPIM, disgusted by BJP 
Sensation, madam, sensation.
17. February 2009 - 4:58 PM
I have been following this discussion closely and only one dude got it right — it is the BJP supporter P. Gupta.
I do think if pink panty girls start a political party with pink panties as their election symbol, they will emerge as queen-makers, trouncing BJP, because the youth of India are going to vote for them. Then it is only a matter of striking the right alliiances with CPIM and Congress.
If they can get Rakhi Sawant to campaign for them, they may get the votes of old men of India also.
17. February 2009 - 6:57 PM
Nandini,
To my mind, discussing “concern for terrorism” is a logical extension of the phenomenon of “moral policing” which is under attack by the Pink Chaddi campaign. This is so because this show of outrage against moral policing flows from the fear that such a phenomenon may manifest itself in the form of terrorism if left unchecked (an argument used by many supporters of Chaddi campaign).
The simple point being highlighted here is that if the issue is being played up keeping in mind the dangers that it represents, there should be a concern shown (deafening silence on this from the campaign) for fighting the ultimate consequences of the phenomenon of moral policing. In the absence of this, it clearly shows that this chaddi campaign is a cheap attempt at publicity. In the absence of extending this chaddi campaign to other right wing sections (like the Muslim one for instance), it proves itself to be partisan and not consistent in its avowed liberal approach to all attempts at moral policing, regardless of which religion it emanates from.
Keeping this in mind, the supposed intended frivolity of the chaddi campaign is not without questions about its real intention. Hence the discussion which puts the real issues in perspective. And for that reason, to many clear thinking, compassionate (& genuine) and free thinking individuals, this is not a matter of amusement.
17. February 2009 - 9:26 PM
Anup,
You think terrorism is nothing but an
extreme form of moral policing? Thats not correct in my POV.
Terrorists are mindless killers but preaching is not on their agenda. The have to dealt with effective application of law and order.
Moral policing too has to be dealt within the ambit of law and order and i repeat…”pink chaddi” guys are NOT concerning themselves with that aspect.
Its only the hollow preaching that they want to counter with intended frivolity.
17. February 2009 - 9:32 PM
Anup,
You think terrorism is nothing but an
extreme form of moral policing? Thats not correct in my POV.
Terrorists are mindless killers but preaching is not on their agenda.
The have to dealt with effective application of law and order. Moral policing too has to be dealt within the ambit of law and order
and if i may repeat…”pink chaddi” guys are NOT concerning themselves with that aspect.
Its only the hollow preaching that they want to counter with intended frivolity.
17. February 2009 - 9:55 PM
@nandini,
“Terrorists are mindless killers but preaching is not on their agenda.”
Which rock have you been living under? The Taliban has spread its tentacles deep into Pakistan and is only miles away from our nation’s capital. They “preached” their version of Islam to be implemented in the Swat Valley and so now you have Shariah law in parts of the NWFP, after a few hundred ‘mindless’ killings of residents in that area. To believe that terrorists don’t have an agenda, is either stupid or deceitful.
17. February 2009 - 10:28 PM
AK,
Before you give knee jerk reactions to post, think about
the statement for a while. When the Mariotte hotel in Pakistan was attacked, it was an act of terrorism.
What is happening in NWFP right now is no longer terrorism but direct invasion.
Despite repitition, my point gets lost. Terrorism and now
invasion are progressively higher and higher levels of
breakdown in the internal law and order of the country.
At all cost, the law and order should be maintained. Did the PPC contest that?
And thanks for your last statement. I would return the compliment saying – anyone comparing terrorism with moral
policing is either naive or is deliberately shifting goal posts.
18. February 2009 - 12:43 AM
Nandini,
Save your breath. I’m not trying to split hairs defining terrorism. I’m just calling you out on your use of spurious generalizations to support your argument. You must have me confused with Madam Renuka, if you think in my comment I equated terrorism with moral policing.
From your posts so far, it’s clear to me that you’re a flag bearer of the PCC (the chaddis not the condom wallas). If your point gets lost despite repition, it’s because you didn’t make sense or because people disagree with it. If it’s the latter, then your arrogance at wanting people to agree with you baffles me. This is the problem with the PCC movement. The comments on their blog are heavily moderated and any dissent, however politely worded gets deleted. Even if there was a chance that I could be persuaded to see their POV, I would never support anyone who doesn’t tolerate dissent.
And to prevent you from jumping to more conclusions about my actual stand, let me clarify for your benefit that I don’t support the actions of the SRS.
18. February 2009 - 7:46 AM
@ Nandini, Pubchik
Ravana is supposed to have abducted Sita in retaliation to his sister Surpanakha being insulted and repulsed by Sri Rama and Lakhsmana when she, angry at the rejection of her amorous advances by Rama and Lakshmana attacked Sita.
The girls who were supposedly attacked by SRS have not registered any complaint with the police.
But some Surpanakhas of the modern world feel insulted because their right to live freely as they please have been attacked.
Perhaps for them Ravana is justified in abducting Sita as rightful revenge to the insult suffered by his sister.
It would be good if these modern day Surpanakhas take time to consider that Ravana is nothing but their own feelings of inflated-ego and revenge that is abducting their good sense, decorum and propriety represented by Sita based on perceived injury and insult suffered by their wayward and wanton desires represented by Surpanakha.
It is for their own feelings of Righteousness and Commitment to Righteousness represented by Sri Rama and Lakshmana to trounce their over-inflated ego and revenge feelings (Ravana) and save their good sense, decorum and propriety (Sita).
18. February 2009 - 1:30 PM
Incognito,
Your analogy makes no sense whatsover.
Are you so morally and intellectually bankrupt that you think the protest against Ram Sene is greater and graver than the act of beating up and molesting girls?
You and pub chick are two sides of the same coin. In your haste to grab attention, you both miss the point completely. At least she was honest enough to admit she only cares about her own self.
18. February 2009 - 3:06 PM
>>Are you so morally and intellectually bankrupt that you think the protest against Ram Sene is greater and graver than the act of beating up and molesting girls?
bjP. Gupta, I thought you are a sensible dude because as a BJP supporter you took an objective stand and correctly predicted that the BJP is going to lose the votes of the Youth of India.
But are you BJP supporters identical in mindset to “outrage”-faking commie freaks?
“My moral outrage is bigger than your moral outrage, therefore, I win, tee hee”, is that the stupid argument you BJP wallahs and commies have got to offer? So you can reduce it to the game of who can fake it better and bigger?
Why can’t incognito show his middle finger to the notorious pink panties methodology without at the same having to condemn ram sena or CPIM for your benefit?
Do pink panties girls acquire a hollow around their faces because they are faking it all better than even you? And so beyond criticism?
I kinda liked pub chick, actually. Before lecturing others look at yourself in mirror. You will see chick.
18. February 2009 - 3:27 PM
No, I didn’t say selfishness is a bad thing. It just explains your polarized, irrational opinions.
I am embarassed you think I agree with your ideas.
18. February 2009 - 4:14 PM
JT
I hate to break your big “I’ve got everyone figured out” bubble, but I AM a chick. I am also not faking outrage for political mileage because I neither work for BJP nor intend to. So you can give your pseudo psycho analysis a rest.
I exposed my drinking, religious/political affiliations to make a point about their mutual exclusivity on this subject and not draw unwarranted scathing remarks from people like you, who I haven’t seen take a stance yet. Thanks for calling me fake, a name like JT speaks volumes of your transparency.
I still think that my religious/political affiliations aside, the Pink chaddi movement is SILLY but def not the bigger evil compared to the activities of the Ram Sene, which has been compared to the rejection of Suparnakha by Ram in Incognito’s analogy. Any attempt to trivialise or justify the beating up and molesting of girls has to stem from moral decay. And so I disagree with Incognito. Please make your own point instead of criticizing mine.
18. February 2009 - 5:36 PM
Dear Incognito,
At first reading, I thought your analogy meant Ram and Laxman (the ram sene) insulted Surpanakha (the pub victims) and now Ravan (the pink movement) is out to get revenge. And I was outraged that you’d compare those molestors to Ram and Laxman, and the pub victims to Surpanakha.
But maybe that is not what you meant and are only talking about the Pink girls the whole time, so I take my comment to you back. You can say the pub culture is indeed making me retarded..haha.. Sorry.
18. February 2009 - 6:22 PM
@Incognito
>>The girls who were supposedly attacked by SRS have not registered any complaint with the police.
Delighted, are you?
The rest of your post sermonises on how “modern day surpanakhas” should let their good side
win over their bad side. Ofcourse we all should..but you never explained why only PPC were chosen for your advice.
AK,
I am sorry if i came across as arrogant. Written words carry the possibility for misinterpretation!
18. February 2009 - 9:40 PM
Nandini, now that was unexpected:) Your courtesy is very refreshing.
18. February 2009 - 10:37 PM
I don’t know what impact the ‘Pink Panty Campaigners’ wanted to create or what purpose it served .
But definitely a lot of people (like me) heard the name of “Nisha Susan” because of PPC!
19. February 2009 - 7:56 AM
@ P Gupta,
Thanks for understanding.
@ Nandini,
“..>>The girls who were supposedly attacked by SRS have not registered any complaint with the police.
Delighted, are you?…”
Can’t you accept factual observations without surrendering to passions?
“…The rest of your post sermonises on how “modern day surpanakhas†should let their good side win over their bad side. Ofcourse we all should..….”
Then why don’t you ?
“…but you never explained why only PPC were chosen for your advice…”
My observations are meaningful for you too, not just PPC, Nandini.
19. February 2009 - 10:32 AM
Oh my heavenly Jesus, it’s a pub fight!
Just saw the video. A couple of men also got their heads bashed in. In this case, some disapproving father or brother probably organized the event. But a pliant and manipulative media predictably focused on some disgruntled Hindu activists willing to make a statement in front of the cameras.
These media jokers are known for manipulating events and manufacturing evidence. Witness Shankaracharya, Purohit, Sadhvi, Samjhauta, all being blamed on some nonexistent “Hindu Taliban”. Just recently, the angreji media tried to blame “Hindu Taliban” for the suicide of a girl raped by a Muslim goon in Mangalore. Apparently, the Hindu Taliban humiliated the girl into suicide by turning over the rapist to the police! The bereaving father today had to exonerate the “Hindu Taliban”.
uber “liberal” idiots should ask the Native Americans about the imperial designs behind the foisting of alcohol and drugs upon native societies. Typically, native products (actually rituals) like peyote and bhanga are banned, only to be substituted with corporate products that eviscerate the society and deplete its potential. Maybe the Chinese were being refractory, conservative, communal, and casteist in opposing the opium dens sponsored by demonic british empire.
Macauley Jindabad
19. February 2009 - 12:03 PM
I think that you are blind in one eye, metaphorically speaking, because this can be nothing but the single eyed view of a matter. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to know that you would have gladly accompanied the hooligans who beat some women. The issue is not pub culture in this particular case. But of course, you have to get out of your rotten male chauvinistic pseudo hindu ideals to see that the issue at hand is law breaking and violence against women. Who the hell gave them the right to be the custodians of Indian culture. And pray, will you define Indian culture for me? You cannot!!! Because it is not a written rule book. But the spirit of Indian Culture is diversity and acceptance and democracy. In a democracy, if you dont like something you voice your opinions and not your hand.
When you write a blog about how you dont like the loose pub going culture, its fine and i respect your opinion. But if you are going to impose yourself on me, ideologically or physically I have a great problem. Do respect my views as I do yours.
19. February 2009 - 1:09 PM
@Incognito
>>Can’t you accept factual observations without surrendering to passions?
I will come to “surrendering to passions” bit later but
talking about factual observation…how factual have
you been in ignoring video tapes, victims own account on televsion channels and print media talking about beating and molesting of girls?
Ok, forget all that. How about SRS and BD separately claiming responsibility for the attack?
That the victims are reluctant to file complaint is not a new phenomenon. Criminals are often let off because the victims dont want a long drawn legal hassle or they fear further victimization and lack of support from society.
I am not blaming or judging the victims here, they are in a difficult position and i dont know what i would have done in their shoes.
But for sure, this is going to increase the confidence of criminals further.And that make me angry and sad.
Now Coming to your asking me not to “surrender to passion”, No i have not done that!
If i had, i would have pointed out to you that not only do u choose facts selectively, you dishonestly interpret them.
( eg – victims not filing complaint => they are actually fine with what happened ).
If i had surrendered to passion, i would have pointed out that calling someone “Modern day surpanakha” and not providing justification for it is an unreasoned behavior and therefore an act of passion.
And if i were replying only in passion, i would have said “Practice before you preach” to your advice.
@Others
As i am the only one supporting the methodology adopted by PPC, i want to reiterate some points
before moving out.
1. The methodology of sending pink panties is INTENDED to be silly and ridiculous.
Calling it silly is akin to calling a comedy movie funny .
2. The question is what was achieved by responding in a silly manner .
The message is that the opponents thinking (i.e SRS here) dont deserve a serious response.
3. One can still argue there was just no NEED to be silly and this whole idea of being silly is a bad idea.
Fine! Different stroke for different folks.
4. Asking PPC why they dont talk about other law and order issue is a wrong question because
they have not claimed to bring a safer society for even those who they represent.
19. February 2009 - 4:24 PM
@Nandini
It will be great if you can answer a very simple question of mine before you move out. (Just to straighten my perception of PPC)
Do those 4 enlightening points come from your point-of-view or are they from the ‘office of PPC’?
If they are from ‘office-of-PPC’, Do they communicate those points with the same loud voice with which they cry “PUB BHAROOOOO!”???
19. February 2009 - 4:27 PM
>>1. The methodology of sending pink panties is INTENDED to be silly and ridiculous.
Calling it silly is akin to calling a comedy movie funny .
I see. Coming a full circle then, it is pointless for pink panties girls to get all worked up and froth buckets at the mouth when they are told they are being silly. Do you expect people to stop calling you silly because you readily to admit to being silly!? That’s compounding the silliness, you silly.
>>The message is that the opponents thinking (i.e SRS here) dont deserve a serious response
Which means that the silly panties types didn’t see their opponent as a serious threat. Suspected as much. Couple that with …
>>they have not claimed to bring a safer society
That’s belaboring the obvious; it’s just that the outrage fakers are putting on their own pink panties show; that’s all.
19. February 2009 - 11:08 PM
Nandini
“That the victims are reluctant to file complaint is not a new phenomenon. Criminals are often let off because the victims dont want a long drawn legal hassle or they fear further victimization and lack of support from society.”
Wasn’t this all about showing courage, novel way of protesting, showing the world what the PPC are capable of doing, liberty etc. The group which claims to have 43,000 followers did not have enough air in it to convince the victims to fight against the goons. Couldn’t a group of 43,000 stand behind these 10 victims to see the justice is done. What was this media spectacle all about. If the victims response can be discarded as “This is common happens everywhere”, why this “silliness”. I would have been more than happy to see the victims come forward and speak up and be instrumental in getting the rogues in Jail. Wouldn’t that response sent a stronger message than the “silliness”.
Now if the rogues come out on bail why blame the government. You can say – “This is common happens everywhere”
20. February 2009 - 12:14 AM
men have been held guilty of sexual harassment for sending women unsolicited underwear.
so why is it the same when the genders are reversed?
20. February 2009 - 8:14 AM
@ Nandini,
“…I will come to “surrendering to passions†bit later …
Now Coming to your asking me not to “surrender to passionâ€, No i have not done that!
If i had, i would have pointed out to you …
If i had surrendered to passion, i ….
And if i were replying only in passion, i ….
When fumes start issuing, it is correct to conclude that Ravana(inflated ego, revenge) and Surpanakaha licentiousness) are reigning the mind.
Sri Rama(Righteousness) is still in the jungles.
It would also appear that Bali(Impetousness) has vanquished Sugriva (Dedication).
Meghanada(Loud Voice- the son of Ego) is victorious over Indra(Intuition).
So Rama(Righteousness) has to first persuade Sugriva (Dedication) to fight and win over Bali(Impetousness).
When Rama helps in defeating Bali, he will have the forces of Sugriva, Hanuman(Devotion) and Vanara Sena (Perseverence) who will help him build a bridge over the sea (vacilitating, confusing thoughts) and challenge Ravana.
Have a nice Ramayana in your mind.
20. February 2009 - 12:48 PM
Good post Kishkindhaa. If this pub-going youth is the best example of “intellectual prowess of future Indians” that this country can produce, I despair for India’s future.
What strikes me is their gullibility and innocence, and how easily they are mainpulated and pushed in any direction by shrewd operators who remain in the shadows. They are like sheep. They have no idea about the wolves of this world.
I speak to them and find that they have no knowledge of world history or even Indian history, they cannot comprehend and interpret geo-political games, they cannot distinguish on their own between political parties and what their agendas are. They are simply obsessed with day-to-day affairs. It is a generation fit to be enslaved again by more shrewd races.
It is the fault of our education system. The British deliberately introduced a policy of keeping the school education narrowly focussed on material sciences and English language. A study of civilisational issues, national security and expansion of religions were shrewdly banned. This confused generation of young Indians is the result. They cannot comprehend civilisational issues and threats because they have never been educated about these, though they know how to dissect a frog.
21. February 2009 - 9:54 AM
Sandeep, I expected better, not this tripe.
21. February 2009 - 11:45 PM
Veda,
Non sequitur.
This entire episode is just a kangressi stunt, just like those episodes where Christians will attack their own churches and put the video online to get more foreign funds. The past few years has seen many such stunts: Sadhvi, Shankaracharya, Purohit, Samjhauta, Godhra pilgrims burnt themselves, ad infinitum….
As far as violence against women, why don’t we discuss sexual colonialism by the islamists, which apparently is a big issue for Mangalore’s Hindu population. These Kerala Islamists entrap impressionable girls with single pointed agenda to ruin lives. Pub “scene” is part of this dynamic. That is waht Hindus are agitated about.
The cameramen all arrived ahead of time. They took some disgruntled Hindus into confidence, fed them a whole array of “we will be give you press coverage”, “we will make your voice heard”, and and got them to humiliate themselves. The aim was to introduce anti-hindu baiting to “young” crowd. Remember Babu Bajrangi “sting”. Actually , the “reporter” just played to man’s vanity and let him speak all sorts of nonsense, later it came out that scripting for a “film”.
Another non sequitur. Everyone acts in their own interests. We cannot fault them for that (but that is the gist of western psyops). The question we need to ask is whether the 4M religionists and colonialists actually contribute to the diversity that is India. I am suggesting that they actually destroy diversity through iconoclasm, denigration of native culture, and, in this case, sexual imperialism and entrapment of native females. Just look at the histories of native americas, black america, mughal india, british india, and so on, where sexual imperialism (to humiliate the “natives”) was rampant. Again, Hindus are saying that pub culture is a part of this imperialist dynamic, same as Opium dens in 19th century China. Why did did Brinda Karat try to make ayurveda illegal? So that she can serve her western MNC masters who want to bring india under their pharmaceutical controls regime. Same thing has happened with native culture here – it was Rajiv who banned and ridiculed bhang rituals and now these same clowns are promoting “pub culture”. Put the pieces together.
As far as “democracy” goes, perhaps you care to explain exactly what is this democracy. British Empire was a democracy. Iraq was invaded was for sake of Democracy. All anti-indian acts by UPA clowns are being accomplished in a “Democracy”. This democracy is just another euphemism for colonialism, same as “Religion of peace”, “religion of love”, and “religion of equality”. Do not give me this democracy line.
Indians could not even stop a few hundred years of humiliation at hands of foreigners who despised the native culture. How can they impose anything on you. Anyway, this entire PCC affair is just another hindu-baiting exercise. Chaddhi is an abusive term for Hindus (based upon the shorts that comprise the RSS attire). Displaying an image of Ram next to a chaddhi is just 21ST CENTURY ICONOCLASM.
23. February 2009 - 7:51 AM
Sanjay wrote:
A study of civilisational issues, national security and expansion of religions were shrewdly banned.
Not to mention, any display of physical and military prowess, except in the specifically favored “martial castes”. All those previously designated as martial castes are being successively primed with secessionist movements: Sikhs, “Dalit” Mahars…. next in line are Gurkhas.
24. February 2009 - 12:17 AM
The man who took on the mob
Sudipto Mondal
Shetty, an ex-Bajrang Dal member, says he is now reformed
Pawan Kumar Shetty
MANGALORE: “It is not that I am very brave or some sort of a hero,†says 24-year-old Pawan Kumar Shetty who single-handedly took on the over 40-strong Sri Ram Sene brigade when it attacked women guests at the Amnesia Pub here last Saturday.
But one of the women he saved differs. “Pawan was the hero of the day. He was one of the few human beings in that place full of animals.â€
She said the mob had not expected any resistance. “So, when Pawan stood up to them they were actually scared for a moment. After all, every bully is a coward.â€
Recalling the events, Mr. Shetty explains: “I could not bear to stand and watch. I just ran into the attacking mob to get their attention away from the girls.â€
Video clippings show the entire mob turning its fury on Mr. Shetty, allowing the women to escape.
There were over a hundred bystanders, “but not one of them did anything to prevent the attack,†he recounts. Had the people united against the attackers, they could have easily chased them away. “Everyone was falling over one another to get a glimpse of the action. It was like a cricket match.â€
Mr. Shetty was in the parking lot of the pub just before the attack took place. He was “stunned†by the preparations for the event. “Cameramen came around 15 minutes before the attack began. They positioned themselves at strategic points,†he says. “Someone shouted ‘action’ the moment the mob entered the compound.â€
http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/27/stories/2009012759421000.htmhttp://www.hindu.com/2009/01/28/stories/2009012859801400.htm