115 comments

1. Sudhir
   19. March 2009 - 5:57 AM

   http://specials.rediff.com/news/2009/mar/18sld1-hindu-families-face-the-heat.htm

   Hope Varun Gandhi turns out to be Modi of UP.

2. rasik
   19. March 2009 - 6:32 AM

   All Hindus should speak like this…
   They do not realize that they are living a minority’s life in a country where they are in numerical majority….

3. sandeep
   19. March 2009 - 6:52 AM

   You are a shit hole..Dont blame others..you fucking idiot

4. Incognito
   19. March 2009 - 7:24 AM

   Who is the most powerful person in the world?

   The President of a country of billion people owes her appointment to this person.

   The Prime Minister of a country of billion people owes his appointment to this person.

   The composition of the entire Union Cabinet of a country of billion people is decided by this one person.

   The Chief Election Commissioner designate of a country of billion people owes his appointment to this single person.

   The Chief Ministers of Four States owe their appointment to this person’s pleasure.

   When this person was born, her parents never would have dreamt that their baby will one day appoint President and Prime Minister of a country that is ten times the geographic area and has twenty times the population of their own. Never would have they imagined. That was beyond the dreams of their all time powerful leaders Ceaser and Mussolini even.

   So what are the achievements of this powerful person that enables her to wield so much power?

   Does she have extraordinary administrative powers?

   Has she displayed extraordinary leadership abilities?

   Has she moved a billion people through emotional oratory that raced the beat of their hearts?

   Is she a principled motivator of people?

   Does she have extraordinary spiritual powers?

   Does she have the charisma of Obama?

   Does she have the vision and will of Putin?

   Does she have the resilience of Modi?

   Does she control a Red Army like Hu Jintao?

   None of the above personalities can appoint the President and Prime Minister of a country of a billion people like she did.

   Does she have the wisdom of a realized sage?

   What are the achievements of this person that enables her to control the destiny of a nation of billion people and their generations to come?

   What does it say about the intelligence of a billion people?

   What does it say about intellectual conditioning that suppresses critical analytical skills of a billion people and turns them into apathetic zombies prepared to rationalize away the future of their country and that of future generations?

   What does it say about the billion people, one of whom is you, being accountable.

5. Bhavananda
   19. March 2009 - 7:34 AM

   Incognito: The reason is not that complex. We are a civilization enslaved for the last 800 yrs by kings from different countries. The blacks (in US) were enslaved, albeit in different ways, and then freed some 160 yrs back. It took up to 2009 to elect Obama. We were freed some 60 yrs back after a millennium of persecution. We should be happy if we could elect a NaMo in the next 10 yrs.

6. Var
   19. March 2009 - 8:27 AM

   Sandeep, the best feature in this post
   “Does all this justify Varun Gandhi’s speech? No”- Kudos… this is what free speech is saying what it is how it is

   But I have a few qualms
   1)Come May, if AIADMK indeed goes with the “thold” front, the BJP will be glad to accept DMK as its ally..and vice versa…Hypocrisy???

   2) BJP’s spokesperson, I keep forgetting his name, openly snubbed Arun Shourie- saying that The words are(when Ambedkar was brought into the election campaign) that of Mr. Shourie and not the BJP!
   If indeed what Mr. Shorie has said in “Worshipping False Gods” is right then why deny? Even the great Mr. Shourie refused to comment on this issue.. Hypocrisy? Cowardice? or POwer thirst? or should I say “Maya”-Jaala” or in your words acrobatics to woo vote banks??

   3) If at all the BJP was indeed the voice of justice and honesty why was the OBC reservation bill passed? it wouldn’t have passed without the NDAs approval, by the looks of it tomorrow if the Muslim reservation bill is brought in THE BJP WILL Vote in favour of it innit?? what is this acrobatics or yoga?

   Well, some people have often accused me of only looking into the false actions of the BJP, but then I must be worried about only my abode right?Why should I even care about what happens in my neighborhood, unless of course there is a fire which threatens my home.

7. Arby K
   19. March 2009 - 9:01 AM

   The media has mentioned few of the earlier incidents in the past few days like the one abt the Danish cartoon. But as far as perspective is concerned, the rules during election are different from when election is not going on. Inciting voters to ur support cannot be viewed fair from a logical framework. From my POV, of the three tapes that IBN has been showing of having told by Gandhi only one is racist – where he talks of cutting the heads of Muslims. Do u have occasions where people spoke of killing Indians during election campaign?

8. Madhup
   19. March 2009 - 11:48 AM

   Asking for a death sentence for rape is common practice by Feminists like Sonia Gandhi, Renuka. What Varun said is that he will cut the heads.

   Only difference is one is political correct and other is immoral humanely, both refer to death, both refer to punishment for rape. Islam also preaches beheadment under strict Shariat laws. Many Hindus were also beheaded in Gulf countries.

9. Palahalli
   19. March 2009 - 12:35 PM

   I think Sandeep’s post discusses the MSMedia’s “fair-minded” double standards.

   It does not discuss the BJP’s obvious weaknesses.

   I do hope Varun retains the stamina to stay his course. We need more like him…many more.

10. Kedar
    19. March 2009 - 1:37 PM

    Law of siminishing utilities–
    The more the main stream media hyperventilates on only one issue, the lesser it will affect the people, and after a certain inflection point, people will simple change the channel.

    Thats why, I believe we need more of these instances– people should be fed with more and more anti-hindu stuff. I realy want to see how much can citizens of Bharat take it before the dam bursts.

    And thats a good thing. Lok sabha elections should be referenda on national issues. Until every person realises that, we deserve this.

11. Lotus
    19. March 2009 - 4:02 PM

    I agree with Kedar. people are watching with disgust and disbelief, these channels that go overboard to protect secularism in India. the Hindu bashing is open and unadulterated. I hope and wish that the media continues this one sided charade until it blows on their face and demolishes the ivory tower on top of which all these lazy bones are sitting and doing their “stories”.

    When was the last time that we had any proactive journalism? Any news that falls on their laps and is sensational enough to sustain a day’s programme content becomes “news”. Where are the stories on Satyam now? Any probe? Any breakthrough? Any follow up?

    What happened to 26/11? Any conspiracy theories? Any follow up on the event? Any stories?

    Get four jobless people on the studio (Teesta Setalvad is the hot favourite!!), rant something meaningless, repeat the same video clippings till people die of boredom (remember Yeddyurappa falling off his chair and the journalist who threw his shoes on Bush?)- this is the staple diet of the so called English news channels.

    We need to continuously watch Rajdeep Sardesai who wears this expression on his face that he just realised that he is the most brilliant creature on earth and Burkha Dutt who genuinely believes that she is God’s gift to mankind!!

    Praying to God that the explosion point happens soon.

12. anup
    19. March 2009 - 4:49 PM

    Hi,

    I am not sure if Varun Gandhi’s real mistake is really what Sandeep says. And I am less convinced about the merits of bringing up media’s bias against “the Hindu cause” in discussing this incident.

    However, what seems interesting to me about this incident is that this thing actually happened. A pro-Hindu politician in a Hindu majority country is actually discussing & rallying support about “Hindu power”. The implicit reality of this situation is that such this type of talk to mobilise people is often used by community leaders of communities that are numerically & financially weak and often socially excluded (remember “Black power”?. And Hindus are none of the above!!

    Is this then a case of tyranny by the minority? Or like the IBN reporter says, is it a case of Hindu leaders reacting to imaginary persecution of Hindus?

    The biggest challenge is that the notion of imaginary persecution is what that needs to be dispelled. A lot of the “secular” Hindus I have spoken to about anti Hindu bias in the media and in general point out that there is no concrete proof given about the “real persecution” of Hindus and dismiss it as imaginary persecution just as the IBN reporter has done. And it is this notion that needs to be dispelled with concrete proofs and not just with well reasoned arguments.

13. borneveryday
    19. March 2009 - 5:10 PM

    Read this and wonder whether other attacks were by any chance a plan to tarnish a “particular community”

    http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=57924

14. Sarvesh
    19. March 2009 - 5:13 PM

    It is rather interesting that the media never reports the election speeches of Muslim candidates…

    Sandeep, you may want to report the following non-communal speech of Dr. Masood Ahmed, former Minister for Education in UP,that he delivered the same week as Varun Gandhi’s speech, and what is more, from the same constituency, Pilibhit!

    No media house cared to report this except for Dainik Jagran.

    Dainik Jagran, Pilibhit, March 6 2009:

    अब तक सभी दलों ने मुस्लिमों को छला : डॉ. मसूद

    पीलीभीत। नेशनल लोक हिन्द पार्टी के अध्यक्ष एवं पूर्व शिक्षा मंत्री डॉ. मसूद अहमद ने मुसलमानों से कहा कि जब तक वे अपना नेता नहीं बनाएंगे, तब तक उनकी उपेक्षा होती रहेगी। उन्होंने सपा, बसपा, भाजपा और कांग्रेस को निशाने पर लेते हुए आरोप लगाया कि सभी ने मुस्लिमों का अहित किया है।

    बृहस्पतिवार को शहर के रामस्वरूप पार्क में आयोजित चुनावी सभा में नेलोपा अध्यक्ष ने मुस्लिमों से कहा कि वे अपने अंदर गैरत पैदा करे तभी उन्हें हुकूमत में हिस्सा मिलेगा। उन्होंने कहा का कांग्रेस, सपा और बसपा ने कुछ मोहरे बना रखे है, उन्हीं के सहारे मुस्लिमों के वोट हथिया लेते है। आरोप लगाया कि मायावती दलितों की और मुलायम सिंह यादवों के नेता है। वे सिर्फ वोट के लिए मुस्लिमों से कोरी हमदर्दी जताते है। अगर मुस्लिमों को अधिकार चाहिए तो उन्हे अपना नेता बनाना पड़ेगा, वरना अन्य नेताओं के पिछलग्गू बनकर अपने वोट लुटाते रहोगे। उन्होंने कांग्रेस को सबसे घटिया पार्टी बताते हुए कहा कि इसने मुल्क के तीन टुकड़े करा दिए। देश का मुसलमान इसी की सफाई देने में लगा है कि हम गुनहगार नहीं है। हिन्दू कट्टरवादी फौज के अफसर को पटाकर बम बनवाते है और मुस्लिमों को आईएसआई का एजेंट और मदरसों को आतंकियों के ट्रेनिंग कैम्प बताते है। इस मुद्दे पर कोई नेता मुस्लिमों के साथ खड़ा नहीं दिख रहा।

    डॉ. मसूद ने कहा कि इस देश को आजाद हुए साठ साल से अधिक समय हो गया। मुस्लिमों को क्या मिला। न शासन में न प्रशासन में जगह मिली और न ही फौज या पुलिस में उनके बच्चों लिया गया। उन्होंने मुस्लिमों का आह्वान किया कि वे एकजुट होकर नेलोपा प्रत्याशी हफीज अहमद अल्वी को जिताएं। नेलोपा मजबूत हुई तो मुस्लिम वर्ग मजबूत होगा।

    English translation upon request if needed.

15. indian
    19. March 2009 - 6:21 PM

    The link below is the analysis made by offstumped:

    http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2009/03/17/india-elections-2009-fatwa-against-muslims-joining-bjp/

16. satish mishra
    19. March 2009 - 7:44 PM

    CONGRESS FACE IS MORE DARK THEN VARUN
    people of india will decide that varun gandhi is wrong or right.. ? but the way congress & its sponsored media clouns are creating political stampede about it,is foolish & like a dangerous conspiracy against society.In regard of this WE, the people of india want an answer from CONGRESS & ITS QUEEN SONIA GANDHI & PRINCE CHARMING,RAHUL GANDHI THAT…
    1. If varun gandhi’s candidature from pilibhit is unconstitutional, after his speech of 6th march then we, the people of india want to know that Congress thinks what about Mr. abdul rahman antulay who openly tried to defend PAKISTAN & abdul ajmal kasab(only live member of group of terrorists who attacked mumbai on 26/11) By telling that it may be conspiracy of hindu’s terrorist group. For kind information of readers, Even today Mr. Antulay is cabanate minister of congress led UPA government.
    2. If congress & its queen & prince charming thinks that varun’s speech of 6th march was inflammatory & anti secular, anti national, anti social. then it is there duty too that they must tell the people of india, that what they think about Mr. Arjun singh who openly defended & supported the decision(providing full financial support to accused of terror blasts of new delhi & police encounter ) of vice chancellor of jamia milia. Mr. Arjun singh also senior most cabinate minister of congress led UPA government.
    3.If congress think that speech of varun gandhi was anti national, anti social then what is congress opinion about Mr. Farukh abdullah who openly dared to threaten the nation & judiciary by making public statement that(.. ki agar afzal guru ko faansi di gayi toh desh jal uthega judges ki jaan ko khatra paidaa ho jaayega, unhe koi bachaa nahi paayegaa).
    Mr farukh abdullah & his son Omar abdullah are enjoying power seat of jammu & kashmir with the only support of congress.

17. N Shah
    19. March 2009 - 7:50 PM

    It’s a brazen example of selective journalism–Karuna’s and Mulayam’s speeches are ‘secular’ but not ‘hate speeches’ but varun’s is. The BJP should have had the gall to come out in the open and give the media the very examples that you’ve posted here but alas, it is hostage to the era of coalition politics and hence, it had to retract fearing another BJD from the JD(U). And for all you know the DMK and the BJP may turn out to be bedfellows post-elections. Will the BJP then chant Ram’s name to Karuna?

18. kaunteya
    19. March 2009 - 8:15 PM

    wait till Firaaq is released. You’d have NDTV/IBN all over the place…

    btw, if it matters, I m willing to sponsor Nandita Das a free one ticket to her paradise – Pakistan.

    I am sure, Talibanis, would like to bang her too.

19. Ot
    19. March 2009 - 9:21 PM

    >>Or like the IBN reporter says, is it a case of Hindu leaders reacting to imaginary persecution of Hindus?

    That IBN bimbette for sure is not living in a Kashmiri Hindu refugee camp.

20. Bhavananda
    19. March 2009 - 10:56 PM

    Sandeep, here’s an article in rediff (of all papers) which say philbhit has no communal incident.
    http://election.rediff.com/report/2009/mar/19/loksabhapoll-pilibhit-has-no-history-of-violence-or-communal-disharmony.htm

    It would be better if you could post your sources in the post, somewhere on the top. I don’t need it. I believe you, but this blighter Sharat Pradhan may need them. Of course, whether he’d be interested in them is a different matter altogether.

21. Haris
    19. March 2009 - 11:03 PM

    Fellow indians, its a shame that till today we all think religion is above humanity. Why cant we see the sufferings of a person as that of a fellow Indian. The blood bath that we witnessed at the time of partition was not enough for these power greedy politicians that even till today to book a berth in the parliament these parasites are dividing the Indians. I would like to ask Mr Varun Gnadhi how much of India does he know after getting the best of the education and comforts of life, how much of suffering and pain has he seen of rural India tat he came as a messiah to the people Pilbhit.Varun , the problem of Pilbhit is not muslim masses but poverty, illetaracy, drinking water and other basic aminities of life. Promise the people these and trust me what your speech of hatred may not fetch you, love of every Indian ( in case you have forgotten but people having faith in Islam are also Indians) would get you.

22. Palahalli
    19. March 2009 - 11:12 PM

    Referencing Anup’s post, I’m not sure speaking with Secular folks (I’m not calling them Hindus or anything else), would elicit any response other than the one it got Anup.

    At an individual level, to be Secular is to move away from one’s roots, religious and/or Civilizational. Just like the Secular State, a Secular individual is bound to chop off any spiritual attachment he might have with his Society and Nation.

    Given this framework, it is easy to see why even those we know as “truly” Secular tend to behave just like those we deride as “Pseudo” Secular. No amount of proofs and evidences will convince them that Hindus have a good case to feel discriminated against. It will never be “enough and sufficient”.

    The linkages between Secularism > Liberalism >Multi-Culturalism are more than apparent. They are obvious. Of course, with “Complete Equality” and “Non-Discrimination” thrown in in good measure.

    “However, what seems interesting to me about this incident is that this thing actually happened. A pro-Hindu politician in a Hindu majority country is actually discussing & rallying support about “Hindu power”. The implicit reality of this situation is that such this type of talk to mobilise people is often used by community leaders of communities that are numerically & financially weak and often socially excluded (remember “Black power”?. And Hindus are none of the above!!”

    - We have a problem here. Our Minorities have never been weak. Fewer numbers, they have more than made up by leveraging the Secular-Liberal establishment. So, what most Majorities end up doing, in an environment such as ours, is react. That’s what Varun’s case illustrates to us. We will continue to react till such time as we are strong enough to act. And when I say strong enough, I mean till such time as we throw away the yoke of Secular-Liberalism and embrace Traditional Hindutva unapologetically.

    I cannot fully appreciate the “Black Power” analogy. I need more to go on.

23. Desigyrl
    19. March 2009 - 11:37 PM

    Varun didn’t make the Muslim reference and the sentence about his sister (he doens’t have one). Anyone who has heard him speak knows that that was not his voice. Here he explains his stance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3yrOCdh7PY&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

    Although I personally don’t see anything wrong even in the speech with the Muslim reference.

24. Desigyrl
    19. March 2009 - 11:40 PM

    Here is his explanation in English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq1Xhni4AtY&feature=related

25. Palahalli
    19. March 2009 - 11:54 PM

    Haris says – ” the problem of Pilbhit is not muslim masses but poverty, illetaracy, drinking water and other basic aminities of life.”

    - This is a typical Secular response to non-Secular threats, Hindus face. Haris forgets that Muslims remain a threat irrespective of the problems of “poverty, illetaracy, drinking water and other basic aminities of life.” This is confirmed by their behavior in advanced countries and their own Islamic states.

    A Secularist is not able to appreciate such non-Secular threats because he does not appreciate non-Secular ties to Society and Nation.

26. puneet
    20. March 2009 - 12:05 AM

    This is good, but all gas… none cares for this country, the plight of hindus, you really wanna read something?
    read this
    http://www.peacefaq.com/india.html
    read how islam has slaughtered hinduism since ages…
    the conquest of islam, by sowrd…
    all these muslims around were native hindus, forced to convert…
    read,
    comments welcome.

27. Ot
    20. March 2009 - 12:24 AM

    Desigyrl @24: that’s an awesome statement. I’m full of admiration for this guy. Is this the man that the BJP bozos are defensive about? Shame on them.

28. Victor
    20. March 2009 - 2:43 AM

    Oh come on, the above incidents should not be given any importance because terrorizing/raping/killing/torturing of Hindus by Muslims are happening almost 365 days in a year and 24 hours in a day, in all the states in India, and so goes unnoticed. But since an opposition shown by Hindus to a single muslim individual or to an individual muslim family occurs very rarely, it is hot news and shows signs of hindu’s brutality. so the baseline is, start killing/torturing muslims in India daily and it ceases to be a headline and will be an everyday incident like that happening in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

29. kaffir
    20. March 2009 - 3:30 AM

    It’s election time – get ready to see more of such incidents which will create a furor and self-righteous knee-jerk reactions all around, as people respond to them without even giving some thought to questions like:
    - Whether the tape was doctored?
    - Who released it and why?
    - Who stands to gain?
    - What did Varun Gandhi have to say about this? Did he confirm that it was him? (After all, presumption of innocence until proved guilty, as well as listening to all parties is a bedrock of liberal/progressive societies.)

    Sadly, when it comes to partisanship and ideology, people tend to take incidents like these at face-value, as it validates their thinking and doesn’t challenge them. Somehow, thinking caps are left behind.

30. kaffir
    20. March 2009 - 3:31 AM

    Here’s one such reaction along predictable lines without pausing to analyze it: http://indianmuslims.in/varun-gandhi-anti-muslim-speech-pilibhit/

31. Bhavananda
    20. March 2009 - 4:25 AM

    Anup@12 and other secular folks: For those of you who hear words like “imaginary persecution” and who are not sure of hindus being persecuted INSIDE India, I’d suggest that you pay a trip to Kashmir or the bordering areas of Bengal, Assam and parts of Kerala.
    Even the upa government/governors in Assam have acknowledged massive change in demographics – in other words Hindus “peacefully” displaced by secular, poor fellows from Bangladesh. Of course, they are just imaginary hindus displaced by imaginary folks from imaginary places by entirely peaceful means, right?

32. kaffir
    20. March 2009 - 6:11 AM

    (News sources for these available on request)

    Sandeep, could you please email me the news sources or post them here in a comment? Thanks.

33. anup
    20. March 2009 - 5:35 PM

    Palahalli,

    I can understand where you are coming from. However, the burden of proof lies on the person who makes a claim. In this case; Hindus are being persecuted.

    Now, I have seen some thinkers logically deduce this position and it definitely satisfies me. But then the fact is that there are a lot of people who think that unless hard data is provided, they will not believe the truth.

    If as you say, reacting is all that can be seen as a reasonable response, then something is surely wrong with the way things are.

    Now, I would think that the BJP should work in this direction and provide proof through reliable sources.

    Bhavananda,

    For one thing, I am not secular as I believe everything is interconnected and it matters a lot which framework you use to connect the dots. And in this regard, I think Indic culture has the answers to spirituality & practical living and hence I see no reason in separating spirituality/philosophy from the affairs of the state. As an aside and speaking from my personal experiences, I feel proud to be born into the Indic culture and the fact that there are many aspects of living that have been analysed threadbare. I have recently turned vegetarian and I frequently try to impress upon people how Indic culture is so well considered with foundational underpinnings of compassion towards one and all (including animals-which leftists/progressives do not consider even as they talk about equality (& climate change & saving the environment) even as they have no compunctions about killing animals for food)& practical aspects of how everything is interconnected.

    All I am appealing for is that the burden of proof is on the claimant and this charge of Hindu persecution (imaginary as some warped commentators observe) has to be proved beyond doubt. And I think that the BJP must do something about it and move beyond rhetoric.

34. Arun Kumar Upadhyay
    20. March 2009 - 6:55 PM

    Even a correct tape is not an evidence under Evidence Act unless somebody claims that it was made by him and is correct. It is just a document and called a secndary evidence needing confirmation of a human witness. No such witness has come forward so far. Only on heresay, FIR can not be registered u/s 154 Cr.P.C.Transfer and suspension of district officers is to coerce them in doing patently illegal acts. The person who claims the CD as evidence has to give evidence and not Varun Gandhi, against whom inquisition has been ordered.

35. Bhavananda
    20. March 2009 - 7:25 PM

    anup@34: You have made very good comments about Indic culture and philosophy and I agree with you on that.

    But, on one count I fully disagree and it is this: When it comes to terrorists (or general islamists/apologists), they are innocent till proven guilty by the law, whereas when it comes to Hindu persecution, it is the persecuted who has to prove the crime? I ask you where is a doubt that Hindus have been persecuted in Kashmir? Do you doubt it? Do you doubt that Hindus have been persecuted from Afghanistan (Hindu kush) to Malaysia? I can go on, and I’m sorry to say friend, that you logic sounds naive to me.

    As for BJP convincing the rest, it is not going to happen till the “rest” develops an interest in understanding. The condition of Hindus in (*parts of*) India is like a women living under Sharia – she has to find 4 men to “prove” her rape else she will be punished for bringing dishonor to family!

36. Haris
    20. March 2009 - 10:45 PM

    Replying to Pallahali… if you talk of example of Islamist causing trouble in western countries and muslim countries… i would like to ask you .. wats the condition of the only hindu nation in the world … Nepal… should we label every hindu as a terrorist killing his brother for throne… should we proclaim evry hindu as a power hungry hypocrite. you say muslims are killing people in western countries .. what are the hindus doing … killing and raping western travellers who come to see this country… should we proclaim all hindus to be beast .. no we cant.. so rather than justifying a follish act of varun see the light on the otherside of tunnel .. no one will benefit from the blame game. no religion in the world teaches to kill.. its the person. Just because a particular group is doing some thing wrong dnt insult a religion which is as holy as yours.

37. larissa
    20. March 2009 - 11:02 PM

    I mean hundreds of thousands.

38. Palahalli
    20. March 2009 - 11:15 PM

    If I read Haris accurately, he compares Muslim instigated turbulence in Western countries, where they are immigrants and more, to what the Nepali Hindu monarchy did to itself in Nepal and the few cases of Indian (I don’t know if there is a religion-wise break up) on tourist violence.

    This is a ridiculous comparison which is also not tenable for the simple reason that this (Hindu) violence does not aim to change the complexion of host countries; like the Muslims in Europe are trying to do.

    In my opinion, Haris may be termed as a very interested party who is pushing his Islamic cause under the guise of Humanism. Else he would have condemned bad Muslim behavior in their adopted lands without such absurd equivocation.

    Additionally, here is an instance of how Muslims will ride on Liberal shoulders without applying Liberal values to themselves. Liberals will allow this ride because it buttresses their notions of non-discriminative
    Multi-Culturalism.

    Haris is either Muslim or sympathizes with the Islamic cause. (This clarity is required if my argument is to make sense)

39. larissa
    20. March 2009 - 11:46 PM

    Nepal had a Maoist movement as a reaction to the corrupt monarchy, which did nothing to develop the rural areas, and the nation. Now the Maoists do not have control of the country and borders are open for any criminals to come in. I wonder where the funding for them comes from? I will not be surprised if it is connected somehow to Islamic groups. I wonder if Pakistan has not tied the Mao-Marxist groups to the Islamic ones. Nepal’s Muslim population has shot up from 1% to 10-15% in the last fifteen years. I see covert Arab funding for the mosques that are popping up everywhere in Nepal and for the hundreds of thousands Muslims from Bangladesh and Bihar pouring into Nepal which has no border control.

40. Suman Mukherjee
    21. March 2009 - 2:45 AM

    No religion tell people to kill other people?? Then what are these Islamic Terrorists doing in the name of Islam. Please stop moronic writings on the internet. How can you compare the terrorism of Hitler with that of Islamic Fundamentalists?? Adolf Hitler though he was a Christian never wanted to form a Christian State unlike what these Jehadis do and preach. In Sri Lanka the ethinic Tamils are trying to form a mother land due to discrimination from the Sinhalese. They are not trying to form a Hindu or a Christian state. So where is the comparison. In Nepal it was not a terrorist act, but it was fight between the family. If this is called terrorism then fight between brothers can also be called terrorism. Hence stop comparing and giving all these illogical comments.
    I have placed some web-sites on my blog. I shall be obliged if you enhance your knowledge on Islam, which asks women to dress like nuns because some pervert men would pounce on them…..I do not know what to comment on such thought process.
    Best wishes,
    Suman Mukherjee
    India.
    http://www.sumamnspeaks.blogspot.com

41. anup
    21. March 2009 - 3:15 AM

    Bhavananda@36, My comments regarding ‘proving the claim’ is directed at the supporters of the persecuted & not at the persecuted themselves in a court situation. The context I am referring to a discussion in the society. And in an argument, the burden of proof always lies with the claimant.

    I am only saying that in addition to proof that is shown to be deduced logically, there should also be concrete proof by way of documents/pictures etc that should be collected to support the logical arguments for the rest to be convinced lest they brush off such arguments as propaganda. And in a scenario wherein the media is biased, it is up to the political party or affiliated organizations to communicate such proofs “on the ground”. The fight against persecution of Hindus & anti Hindu propaganda & bias has also got to be fought with the accepted rules of engagement. If the media shows a recording of Varun Gandhi purportedly making communal speeches & paints a communal Hindu agenda then the response to such allegations or justifying those sort of speeches should also take a similar form.

    People accept messages on a selective basis & reject messages that are contrary to their beliefs/values. They only expose themselves to messages that are in line with their beliefs/values. As a consequence, their reasoning also takes into account selective messages and arguments to prove their standpoint. Now, as to the point of people developing an interest in understanding, it is unlikely to happen because the selective filter will come into play each time they encounter a politically incorrect cry of Hindus of persecution in their own land. And hence, such attempts are counter productive as far as the general public is concerned while it may work in the specific area which has been privy to the persecution & hence gotten exposed to the proof.

    In short, the physical proof is very important. If not accessible by mainstream media, it has to be available through alternative media like internet, roadshows, exhibitions etc.

42. Haris
    21. March 2009 - 8:16 AM

    Palahalli,
    I would like to ask you a question.. take for instance you have a child… he gets a thrashing one day from his teacher for doing some mischief at school. you hear this and start thrashing your wife. Reason being your wife is a very good friend of that teacher. i am sure you wont do this right … but when it comes to Indian muslims you are doing this non sense only. What has an in dian got to do what an arab nation person does in the world. How can you label an indian on the act of some foreigner. Use your senses… no one wants to kill.. everyone wants to have a peaceful life… hatred breeds hatred…just imagin if a young child starts hearing ur views …if he is a muslim he will start hating the muslims and if he is a hindu he wl start hating the muslims … thought like these are shaking the roots of the country .. its not going to reap any good. time we indians realized religion depends on the accident of birth. we have no role or choice to play in the religion we are born in. But we all can chose to be ptriotic indians and amazing human beings.. choice is yours

43. dharmvir
    21. March 2009 - 9:37 AM

    Haris,

    Have you ever tried to understand the religious bending
    of Muslims and how they are governed by the primitive ideology which has not changed since 7th century. Did you ever tried to read their scriptures and see what they really teach.

    What is source of your claims.. Your TV ? or your Newspaper ?

    Have ever heard of shah bano case. Google and do some reading on it and then come back and explain how is behavior of Muslims in case of shah bano case is logical.
    Will you support Muslims on that ?

44. Haris
    21. March 2009 - 10:56 AM

    Dharmvir,
    what do you say of sati n child marrigae which is still so prevalent in rajasthan. I think its time you googled and so this. Dont you think age old belief of caste is sill so strong in hindus. Till now all the hindu parties targets sects of hindus. I think this belief of caste dates back to more than 7th century beliefs. The problem is not with Muslim or the religion, problem is with what you want to see and decipher. Why cant you quote the example of Kalam and say a person showed the road to modern technology. Before pointing fingers to others lets first see where we stand… we indians ( hindus or muslims) are also driven by belief which we have inherited for centuries.

45. dharmvir
    21. March 2009 - 2:37 PM

    Haris,

    I am from rajasthan and in last 25 years there are only one case reported of sati. I have lived enough in the rural area to tell you sati is not practised in shekawati area atleast ( which is three very big districts). Since 1987 there is only one reported case of sati ( roop kawar’s case). Having said that I acknowledge that sati “was” a social issue and we have firm laws to deal with them. Will you enlighten me with more cases of sati and at the same time please tell me how the indian law prohibits multiple marriage in muslims.

    According to your logic having a law for sati and declaring it a criminal act is same as supporting muslims with law to get married multiple times ? ( same logic goes for child marriage which is illegal under law)

    Regarding caste .. In which age you are living man. Every year the caste is getting weak. The caste based descrimination is acknowledged as problem by Hindus and actions has been taken to bring harmony among casts. To Give you one small instance from the so called radical Hindu organisation RSS. many members have shed their surname, So that caste can be diluted.

    The only spehere where caste is going stronger is politics.
    Where bunch of secular jokers are using it.

    Tell me instances where caste, sati and child marriage are supported by Hindus.unlike muslims who come openly now and then and assert their 7th century primitive culture and not ready to acknowledge that they also need a change.

    This is where they are different from hindus. Hindus have acknowldeges that they have some social problems and they need to be rectified. Whereas muslims are justifying their problems through their religion.

    Kalam being a good man doen’t represent all the muslims. He being good doesn’t mean that all muslims are same. and anyway problem is not wih being mulims, Problem is with following islam.A muslims who is not following quran can be a good man, but a muslims who is following quran by heart is bound to go nuts. Quran and its practice has that kind of brain washing power. there are n number of hate instances in quran. But you cannot discuss openly with them bcoz you will offend some muslim. If they are so progressive then why they cannot have a open discussion on quran and accept that hate instance are not relevant anymore.

    You seems to be blinded with the secular media, which now and then is asseting that muslims are goats and hindus are tigers who eat these innocent goats regularly.

    Let me ask you one more question. If islam doesn;t have a problem then why pakistan is on fire today. we started with indepence on the same day with similar kind of resources. Why India developed so much whereas pakistan is burning.

    Why the similar thing happened with bangaldesh. If you want I can quote you many more insatnces from history where bloodbath happened whenever muslims become a majority.

    Please go beyond TV and do some reasearch on your own. Start with some authentic ( tranlated by some so knowledgable mullah) version of quran and hadith. Go as pick some mullah and ask him about the instances in quran and hadith which are opposing humanity. Then come back and debate.

46. Sansarcandra
    21. March 2009 - 2:53 PM

    The point made by Harris that we should be tolerant of other religion is no doubt a noble one. The burden of it however should not rest with only one community. There are many shortcomings in the Hindu community and they are being dealt with by the hindus who do not take cover of their religious text to say that the written word is final. Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma has existed for more than 7000 years and has evolved with time and has not been averse to absorbing what has been good. This is where it differs from other religion. Sanatana Dharma does not start and end with one book or person. It will continue to evolve itself as new facts are discovered and new frontiers breached in science. We understand that what the rishis wrote 5000 years back were the product of introspection of their times. They had infact cautioned us regarding the same and told us to keep the doors and windows of our mind open so as to let new knowledge freely come in. Hinduism again is not one sect or creed. Some people may believe in Sati or other deplorable rituals but the vast majority of hindus do not believe in it. These rituals are very rare now and tremondous pressure is being created by the hindu communtity to have it eradicated. These rituals are highly rare and are usually used by vested interest groups to potray a dark view of India and Hindu religion in particular to the western world to earn some dollars to help in the conversion mission in India. The tolerant nature of hindus towards people of other faith is taken as meekness and weakness. Hinduism allows for various thought processes to coexist within itself. None can claim superiority over the other. Contrast this with the feud which take place in Islam between Sunni and Shias and in Christians between the Catholic and Protestant. These religions are not even two thousand years old and have only one book and one person to fall back upon i.e Koran, Bible, Prophet Mohammad and Jesus Christ. If one looks at the differnt sects in the Christian and Muslim world you will understand what happens when religion gets old. The religions of middle east claim to be the only way to truth. Contrast this to an eastern religion, the leader of one is Dalai Lama and who said that if science were to prove any of the teachings of buddhist philosophy wrong, he would relinquish those thoughts or teaching in favour of the scientific findings. This type of humility and acceptance of other’s view is not to be found in Christanity and Islam. Any attempt to even rationalise the teaching and make them more in line with modern thought raises a war cry all over the world and will inevitably invite swift retribution. As far as the western world is concerned, it is best not calling them christians nations for it is a distortion of facts. They were Christians till before the renaissance when the authority of the Church was challenged and it was made to go in to the background. The western world thought process consists of two stream i.e rationalistic or materialistic. It may be following christanity but it is only in form and not in spirit and that expains their scientific progress because if it were not so than a large part of africa after being dominated by the followers of Christ and Islam would have certainly been a first world country with all the natural resources that they have. I, however firmly believe that being rational is better than following any religion but only if everyone were to accept it. Christanity and Islam with their hostile attitude towards rationalism, science, other religions and local culture remain the most dangerous threat to peaceful co existence of a multicultural society. The nefarious activities of the church and jihadi organisations have to be thwarted or else all local religions and cultures will eventually disappear and this two religion will then proceed to fight each other till they ruin this beautiful planet. People like Harris are astonished at the anti conversion and anti minority voice being raised in certain quaters because they are unaware of the activities of the Church and Jihadi networks in tribal and border areas of the country which have the potential to wreck havoc in the country. A visit to one of these places will dispel most of his doubts. The reason that I support Sanatana Dharma is because it accepts criticsm, accepts other religions as equally good and that they too can lead a truthful and a good person to his salvation. As far as I am concerned Salvation is in the realm of speculation and hardly matters to me but a good and truthful person without prejudice and not suffering from superiority complex is no doubt a god gifts to mankind no matter what his religion. This thought is however sadly denied by other religion though there exist a sizeable number of self realized persons in all community and religions who do believe in the above thought no matter what their religion tells them.

47. Incognito
    21. March 2009 - 4:16 PM

    @ Haris,

    Dharmvir is talking about the ideology in some scriptures which allow no place for a non-believer and is providing fuel to Jihad.

    >>what do you say of sati n child marrigae which is still so prevalent in rajasthan.

    Sati act was committed by the women whose husbands died in battlefield, to save their honour from the marauding muslim invaders who had no sanctity for women, not even for their own.

    Child marriage likewise was practiced in those areas that were under muslim occupation, to prevent unmarried women from being used as baby making factories by these polygamic inhumans.

    >>Dont you think age old belief of caste is sill so strong in hindus.

    What is the age of this belief of caste?
    Ramayana, the revered text is written by a reformed robber who is considered a Bhramin. Similarly Mahabharata is written by the son of a fisherwoman and a Kshatriya, he is also considered a Bhramin. Upanishads tell the story of Satyakama Jabala whose mother could not tell him who his father was, he is also a Bhramin. The Varna system of ancient indian scriptures is based on characterstics and activities of the person and not birth.

    In the present age, when you travel by public transport, do you know the caste of the person who is sitting beside you, when you have food from a restaurent, do you ask who cooked it?
    If caste had any relevance now, would Mayawati be the CM of UP, would Sonia be the kingmaker?
    What do you know about the caste of the CMs of others states?
    Would they be CMs if caste was a deciding factor in the society today?

    >>Till now all the hindu parties targets sects of hindus.

    Which is the party that claims to be hindu party?

    >>I think this belief of caste dates back to more than 7th century beliefs.

    And I think Obama is Christ and Mohammed combined.

    Your thinking alone does not make anything a fact.

    >>The problem is not with Muslim or the religion, problem is with what you want to see and decipher.

    Dara Shukoh, elder son of Shah Jahan would have thought so until the fateful day he was deprived of his life.

    The problem is in refusing to see the problem.

    Past history of 1300 years show that refusing to see the problem is not going to make the problem disappear.

    Some of the freedom loving Pakistanis in Swat valley are probably realising this now.

    >>Why cant you quote the example of Kalam and say a person showed the road to modern technology.

    And who did not allow him a second term as President?
    The same party that has Muslim League as its ally.
    Why?
    Why did Muslim League or Antulay not speak up for the most worthy of Indian Presidents ever to be given a second term?

    >>… we indians ( hindus or muslims) are also driven by belief which we have inherited for centuries.

    In your comment @41 you stated “we have no role or choice to play in the religion we are born in. But we all can chose to be ptriotic(sic) indians and amazing human beings.. choice is yours.

    So in one post you say that we can choose to be patriotic indians and amazing human beings and in the very next one you say we are driven by belief we have inherited.

    Make up your mind. Are you patriotic indian and amazing human being or driven by belief you have inherited?

    I think this dilemma is something that non-fundamentalist muslims across the world have to resolve for themselves.

    And I think the solution lies in having the courage to think and act for oneself. Whether one wants to lead his life in a leash made by the nearest fundamentalist follower of Mullah Omar or whether one gathers the courage to make his own path unfettered by dogmas.

    As said at the end of post no 41, “…the choice is yours”.

    And it is going to be interesting to see what choice you are making. For in its own little way it has an effect on the future of this country we all call our home.

    You have to decide who is important to you- Kashmiri Pandits or Palestinians. Whose pain do you identify with?
    Your brother of your own home country or someone far far away.
    The politicians who play vote bank politics, including the tri-color types as well as red color types, have shown interest only in the plight of those far far away precisely because they feel that is what average indian muslim feels.

    How many indian muslims wil prove them wrong?

48. N Shah
    21. March 2009 - 5:32 PM

    @haris: We don’t blame Indian Muslims for what the Arabs in their own lands. Its their business really. What we are up against is the indifference with which Hindus are treated. I dont say this simply because they comprise more than 80% of the population but because atleast as far as the preamble is concerned we are a ‘secular’ nation but unfortunately doesnt apply to us. So, Hindu-bashing can be secular but minority appeasement is not. By the same measure, I dont undertand what ones means by ‘division of secular votes’, so if one votes for the BJP , does the person turn communal? If there a 100 BJP MPs in parliament does that make roughly 20% of India communal? Indian Muslims have their problems and they deserve to be sorted out but not by blatant bashing of anything and everything Hindu.

    Vaun Gandhi said, what he might have said to win elections–depending on what the truth is, it is infact quite deplorable BUT for me it is the reaction to the speech which is even more deplorable.

49. Palahalli
    21. March 2009 - 7:29 PM

    It is interesting to find Haris taking up for Muslims abroad when it suites his argument and discarding that line altogether, when it doesn’t.

    I say this because he need not have cited the Nepali Monarchy et al when I mentioned Muslim wrong doings in Europe as illustration against his roti-kapda argument. He could have simply accepted facts and moved on.

    I do not see why, as some commenters have done, Hindus should become defensive about Caste. All Castes are repositories of our varied traditions. Being proud of one’s Caste traditions does not mean being scornful of another’s. I think that is the reason Hindus of various Castes will sit together in a bus. Not because they have forgotten their Caste traditions but because they allow for various Caste traditions. In my opinion, we should not be viewing Caste negatively.

    Also, it is wrong to presume that Hindus can or will forget their Castes. It won’t happen. Liberal pressure on them to do so will only give rise to hypocrisy. This is what we see today.

    Pointing to politicians as “boilers” of the Caste cauldron is only part of the story. In reality, what they do is exploit ignorance.

50. kaffir
    21. March 2009 - 8:59 PM

    “So, Hindu-bashing can be secular but minority appeasement is not. ”

    ***************

    N. Shah, did you mean to say “So, Hindu-bashing can be secular but minority bashing is not.”?
    Because minority appeasement is (illogically) considered secular in India.

51. kaffir
    21. March 2009 - 9:08 PM

    Haris wrote: “What has an indian got to do what an arab nation person does in the world. ”

    *********

    What has an Indian got to do with Danish cartoons in Denmark? Yet, we had Indian Muslims getting angry over it and someone offering a monetary reward to kill those cartoonists living in Denmark.

    What has an Indian got to do with Israel-Palestine issue? Yet we have Indians – Muslims and non-Muslims – justifying terrorism and showing sympathy with Osama Bin Laden on the grounds of injustices thousands of miles away, or America’s actions.

    Glad that others already pointed out the problems in your sati and child marriage argument. Most people start with the trifecta of sati, child marriage and caste system to judge – and hate – Hinduism. I hope you can actually examine this trifecta with some facts and analysis instead of being gullible and swallowing it whole, as well as look at many positives in Hinduism.

52. kaffir
    21. March 2009 - 9:10 PM

    Haris wrote: “we have no role or choice to play in the religion we are born in. But we all can chose to be ptriotic indians and amazing human beings.. choice is yours”

    ***********

    Is there a conflict between being religious and being amazing human beings/patriotic? How so?

53. ramesh babu r
    21. March 2009 - 10:23 PM

    Correctly narrated. i am from TN here bhramins are becoming a minority community.And no sooner hindus in india will become a minority.
    Here Karuna in TN has portrayed himself as Ravana. That is why he does not like Rama. he says he is not having any religious faith.. but has most famous astrologers help during elections and performs all kinda of poojas. wearing a yello cloth for luck.. why this double action????

54. R
    21. March 2009 - 10:39 PM

    Sandeep,

    To your list you could add this :

    Andhra MLAs lead mob attack on Taslima

    Wasn’t MIM a congress ally ?

55. Sudhir
    22. March 2009 - 12:39 AM

    http://expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Church+in+Kerala+to+field+candidates+in+LS+polls&artid=u7XfKVIKxFk=&SectionID=1ZkF/jmWuSA=&MainSectionID=1ZkF/jmWuSA=&SectionName=X7s7i|xOZ5Y=&SEO=Kerala,%20Malankara%20Syrian%20church

    ” KOTTAYAM: Unhappy with both the Congress-led UDF and the CPI-M-led LDF, the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church in Kerala today decided to field independent candidates in seven constituencies for the Lok Sabha elections in the state.

    The decision was taken at a meeting of church authorities here this evening, a church official said. This was the first time the church which has pockets of influence in some of the constituencies would be fielding its candidates. The decision was taken as the church felt the successive LDF and UDF governments failed to consider the problems of the church so far, he said.”

56. Haris
    22. March 2009 - 2:33 AM

    wow seems like my response has made quite a wave … will respond tomorrow to all of you guys … need to do some homework…

57. Haris
    22. March 2009 - 9:33 AM

    Response 1 : To Dharamveer

    Dude find time and just goolge sati in india and you will know if sati is still practised in India or not. Making claims with half baked knowledge makes no sense. Anyways i was not trying to criticise Hinduism at any point. I really respect the religion and its preachings. I was trying to prove a point that if we try to find mistakes in a religion, then there is something wrong in each religion. What mattters is you imbibe the correct things and move along. If hinduism preaches ( which i am sure it doesnt but then a few some of which are blogging here also practise) to insult other religion then i think its a real big flaw with this religion and we should stay away from it.Dude we all are indians and i was not talking anywhere on behalf of muslims living where but India . I believe in philosophy that we all should be driven by one common law of the land. Our constitution says ” WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:

    JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
    LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
    EQUALITY of status and of opportunity;
    and to promote among them all
    FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation

    But in actuality what is that we have, a special law for muslims, quota for schedule caste, schedule tribes and backward classes. Where is the equality. the people that you talk about who came in news in shakeela banos case the dar ul islam group is no authority. Its like a panchayat , a governing body for remote villages where government penetration of judicial system is bear minimum. These sects of people are ignorant and still believe in age old prastises. How bad the actual condition is i too also dont know as i have never come in touch with rural india. But tell me, the existance of such backward people in our contry which boasts of being the next big power ( claim is made by both CONG and BJP) can it progress and become the next big thing in the world. DOnt you think its a failure on part of all political parties that rule of the land annot penetrate to indians resifding in the country. the root cause of the problem is the approach wchich the political parties have for these sects of people. COngress pampers them by tellin whatever you are doing carry on , i wont stop you and BJP says whatever you do i dont want to see you. the end effect is that these people dont vchange and contoinue living the life of ignorance that they were living. the problem is ignorance and not religion. You speak of history, tell me this Muslim rulers ruled this country for centuries. if they had wanted they would have killed each and every hindu on this land and made this country a muslim country ( same way as the aryans who came and killed each and every dravidian or drove them away from the gangetic plain) but perhaps they realized ( and its high time we also realized) that India is unique it cant be eradicated of hindus and muslim. India is made by Indians and not any religion. who ever rules the country whatevr they do and how much they try it will always be the same. be it the plundering of india of by Ghoris n Gaznis or massacre of Indians by Modis, its always an Indian who dies.

    I would like o make a small request buddy before commenting on the holy Quran just read it to find a flaw. If I start I can also insult Gita n Ramayana n Mahabharat but i wont . I am no one to insult a book which millions of people believe in. This is no claim by any secular person but a request by a normal human being, not believing in a religion is one thing but insulting something which is considered Gods word by some people is really low.

58. Haris
    22. March 2009 - 9:47 AM

    Response 2 : To Sansarcandra

    Buddy you are confusing Indian muslims with the world. I care a damn and you too should about people living else where as we have many a problem at home only. Havent the muslims changed in India. How many females you see practising purdah system in our contry ( again i can quote based on what i see in cities as i dnt have mch knowledge of rural india). Hardliners else where preach singing and dancing and blah is against Islam but just have a look around you the whole indian cinema, music, painting, literature is flocking with so many muslims. Havent they changed?? what is that you want to say by telling muslims havent changed ? When indian is changing how can you say the second largest group of people in the country are not changing. See as told earlier, groups like dar ul islam is not true india. it breeds on ignorance of people who have not been a part of this changing india. Lets all relaize this problem and try eradincating the biggest problem ignorance and illeteracy that is so prevalent in the country. Lets not play in the hands of poiticains and be just vote banks, lets make ourselves counted as an indian and be the change that we want to see. Tuff na dude, but try giving it a shot, for its worth every paisa( not using penny as i am speaking in Indian context and not about any tom dick and harry living in some corner of the world as i am not bothered about them andyou too should not be).

59. Haris
    22. March 2009 - 10:08 AM

    Response 3 : to incognito:

    Buddy its not some text, i am sure you talking about Quran so just name it straight. Secondly have you read it, that you know i talks about raging a war or jihad on non belivers? . I have read the text and found no such thing. If you have do enlighten me. Tell me this, you want to buy a plot of land for your house, will you ever buy it without seeing and inspecting the land. No na , you will try getting all the info you can get and then only pass your decision. But why is it that before passing a judgement you dont need to read about it and then speak because speaking and criticizing is the easiest thing to do and costs us nothing.
    Now you have tried justifying the wrongs which i pointed initially in hinduism. Firstly, i had no intention to insult the wonderful religion of hinduism so incase you giving this clarification out of being hurt then my apologies to you . Secondly, i wont try justifying that yo are wrong in your comments of justification because ia m not here to fight and prove to you a point that hinduism is based on wrong beliefs. I was replying to some one comments that lots of flaws in islam and the only motive was to prove this to them that nothing is perfect. You imbibe the best thing among all to make your self perfect. I would just like to add one thing to whatever you have said, you spoke of understnading the agony of kashmiri pandits and not palestine. I totaaly accept that. See what happened in kashmir is a tragedy, but at that time you and me were not there we couldnt do any thing about it. But if we dont change our mind set we will see many more burning gujarats and demolition of temples and mosques. we can stop all this if wewant to. Hatred and disgracing some one for what his ancestors have done is right and sensible??? JUSt wait for d day when you write a blog like we indians should realize the agony of kashmiri pandits and gujarati muslims, India would have become a more united and strong country .Lets just wait for that day, i am sure its just round the corner.

60. Haris
    22. March 2009 - 10:17 AM

    Resposne 4 : N Shah:

    Buddy firstly i appreciate the way you have put your points forward without insulting any religious scripture or religion which has been the cae with almost all th bloggers here.
    Secondly, I too am shocked as the way media has hyped this whole episode. Varun Gandhi has become the most talked about thing in the country. Perhaps his motive of publicity has been achived.
    Finally regarding bashing of the majority. Dont know what is it apart from the freedom to marry 4 times that has been given to muslims in the country that makes you think muslims are pampered in the contry. All the reservations and quotas that we have in the country is for SC/ST ( muslims do not come in these categories) and OBCs. Now having these reservation in first place I am totally against it. We procalim that we are land of Equality and then have double standards of giving reservations. its depriving whole of india and bashing the whole society and not just religious majority of the contry. N shah incase i have misunderstood your definition of Hindu bashing please correct me.

61. Haris
    22. March 2009 - 10:28 AM

    Response 5: To Palahalli:

    Dude, tell me what is it that you are finding flaw in, Islam or Indian muslims. because i cant see why you are so worried about what is happeneing in western world when we have a bomb blast every other day in our contry. I was confused with what actually is your problem or doubt so cited an example outside our country. Anyways I am not here to indulge in a blame game. I have no intensions to bellittle you or hinduism . I am sure both are wonderful and respestful. I am also sure like you that caste system is embedded in the fabrics of our existence and cant be changed. But i feel that tha actual bashing that is taking place in our contry is based on these castes only and not religion. How many deserving forwards are loosing out on gud education and jobs just because of this reservation laws of land. India is being driven into the hands of people who need cruches to move in every sphere of their life. arnt we making a very big compromise on qulaity and talent by this. I understand the good intension behind this reservation when our constitution ws framed but i feel now the time has come to review it. The end effect that our contitution writers had aimed to achieve has long been defeated and the benefit is tickling down to just a handful of people . time we realized and changed the reservation politics. Anyways i am deviating from the religion bashing that we were indulging to make you realize a bigger problem that we face . think about it

62. Haris
    22. March 2009 - 10:32 AM

    Respose 6: To kafir:

    yes buddy there is a difference being amazing human beings and religious/patriotism. I am sure the religion that you believe in ( which i am sure is not hinduism as it never preaches to hate fellow human beings nad justify killing of innocents). So incase you continue believing the religion that u believe in you can never be an amzaing human being as amazing human being will never want to inflict pain and suffering on others.

63. Palahalli
    22. March 2009 - 10:41 AM

    Haris – Here’s all you want to know about Sati.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

    We have special provisions for some sections of Hindus because they require it. It will help them improve. More than anything, they fought to improve their own lot instead of asking the world to change for them.

    I don’t think any Hindu will object to Hindu texts being discussed.

    What I want to know is why you are averse to discussing the Qu’ran.

    I have read that book and I want to start from the first chapter, The Cow.

    Tell me why there is so much anti – Jewish violence in that chapter.

    I’ll move on when you’re done explaining.

64. Palahalli
    22. March 2009 - 10:56 AM

    Haris, if you were not interested in Muslims in the West, why did you rush to defend them in the first place?

    I see no difference in Western or Eastern Muslims because that is the way Muslims project themselves. They don’t see themselves as different. I respect that.

    I suggest you stop obfuscating issues and stop pulling Gandhian wool over Hindu eyes. Won’t work anymore.

    What will work is frank and honest discussion.

    Again, reservation for Dalits is none of you’re business. That is also not what we are discussing here.

65. dharmvir
    22. March 2009 - 11:00 AM

    Haris,

    you smartly evaded my question. Please enlighten me how many insatnces of sati happened in last 25 years. Don’t give gross statemnets like it is still happening. Tell us the exact numbers. and then we can decide if it is still happening or not.
    Regarding your reading of quran, I can tell from your words that you are bluffing. you know nothing about islam except that it is also a religion( religion of peace actually) and it should be respected. Which is a typical attitude in todays generation who draw their understanding from media.

    Regarding discussion on ramayana and mahabharata. Who told you they are so holy that they cannot be dicussed and criticized. If there are something objectional in it, it should be brought forward and discussed.

    Would you enlighten us with derogataory works in ramayana and mahabharta. May be you can point us to some phrase where Rama ordered his followers to kill all nonhindus and spare them if they are ready to convert ?
    Or said that you should not take nonhindus as friends as you cannot trust them.
    or for that matter Rama in the age of 54 married a 6 year old girl and have sex with her when she was 9 year old.

    Please dude enlighten us with your secular attitude.
    Also explain in which scripture Hindu word in mentioned and how it orginated. Who seperated us by saying we are hindu.
    Just for your info ( in case you don’t know) hindu word is not mentioned in any scripture.

66. dharmvir
    22. March 2009 - 11:34 AM

    >>Dude find time and just goolge sati in india and you will know if sati is still practised in India or not.

    Dharmvir – Hari please quote the number of sati instances happend in India in last 25 years. and then we can decide what is half baked knowledge.

    >>> I really respect the religion and its preachings. I was trying to prove a point that if we try to find mistakes in a religion, then there is something wrong in each religion. What mattters is you imbibe the correct things and move along.

    Dharmvir – Do you respect a religions perchings without understanding them ?? If some religion says that it is your duty to convert and bring all the nonbelievers in its fold by whatsoever mean. Will you still respect it. If yes, Then only god can help you.

    >> If hinduism preaches ( which i am sure it doesnt but then a few some of which are blogging here also practise) to insult other religion then i think its a real big flaw with this religion and we should stay away from it.

    Dharmvir : Hinduism teaches and support dharma and fight adharma. For your knowledge Dharma doesn’t mean Religion.
    If some group of people are practicing adharma it is duty of every sane/spritual person to fight it. If you don’t want to fight adharma beacuse it is preached by certain religion. then You are also doing adharma. It is propoganda done by media and our secular parties that all religions are equal and teaches same things.
    Rajiv malhotra has explained this very well in the article below( go through this with open mind)
    http://rajivmalhotra.sulekha.com/blog/post/2004/11/myth-of-hindu-sameness.htm

    >> Dude we all are indians and i was not talking anywhere on behalf of muslims living where but India . I believe in philosophy that we all should be driven by one common law of the land.

    Dharmvir: Is your belief practiced in reality ? Laws in india are in contradiction with constitution.

    >>. Where is the equality. the people that you talk about who came in news in shakeela banos case the dar ul islam group is no authority.

    Dharmvir : oh really , If they didn’t have support of majority of muslims why Rajiv gandhi went beyond normal way and passed a bill to nullify Supreme court judgement.

    >> Its like a panchayat , a governing body for remote villages where government penetration of judicial system is bear minimum.

    Dharmvir : never heard of the case where goverment change a law based on pachayat decision. Could you please quote atleast one instance where this happened.

    >>> These sects of people are ignorant and still believe in age old prastises. How bad the actual condition is i too also dont know as i have never come in touch with rural india.

    Dharmvir : Thats the problem, your knowledge comes from english media.You have never seen the real india.

    >>> But tell me, the existance of such backward people in our contry which boasts of being the next big power ( claim is made by both CONG and BJP) can it progress and become the next big thing in the world. DOnt you think its a failure on part of all political parties that rule of the land annot penetrate to indians resifding in the country. the root cause of the problem is the approach wchich the political parties have for these sects of people. COngress pampers them by tellin whatever you are doing carry on , i wont stop you and BJP says whatever you do i dont want to see you. the end effect is that these people dont vchange and contoinue living the life of ignorance that they were living. the problem is ignorance and not religion.

    Dharmvir : Typical secular ranting where everything bad done by certain set of people is attributed to ignorance.
    Did you ever tried to understand what is source of their ignorance? If you try to see the source may be you can undertsand what is the real problem.

    >> You speak of history, tell me this Muslim rulers ruled this country for centuries. if they had wanted they would have killed each and every hindu on this land and made this country a muslim country.

    Dharmvir : You gave this statment assuming hindus were cowards and uncapable of doing anything. Hindus are surviving not beacuse of mulism rulers pity on hindus. They are surviving beacuse they fought for it. See the condition of pakistan and bangaladesh. There Hindus were not able to fight and they are on the verge of extinction.

    >>( same way as the aryans who came and killed each and every dravidian or drove them away from the gangetic plain)

    Dharmvir : Its high time you should stop reading English historians. Aryan invasion theory is a myth.
    read below book. It may help you to see things from a different angle.

    http://voiceofdharma.org/books/ait/

    >>> but perhaps they realized ( and its high time we also realized) that India is unique it cant be eradicated of hindus and muslim.

    Dharmvir : a navie satement. Which typically comes in secular English media. Actually they realised that hindu culture is too strong to overtake. If you see they didn’t apply the same libral attitude to persia, where they wiped parsian civilization completely. Then how come they become so libral in india.

    >>>I would like o make a small request buddy before commenting on the holy Quran just read it to find a flaw. If I start I can also insult Gita n Ramayana n Mahabharat but i wont .

    Dharmvir : You wont find any fault in ramayana beacuse you have never cared to read it, and so is the case with mahabharta. Please let us enlighten with the faults in mahabharta and ramayana ( which are so divine ,that they cannot be criticized). I can gaurantee you nobody of us bloggers will issue fatwa against you

    >> I am no one to insult a book which millions of people believe in.

    Dharmvir : By your logic you should not criticize child marriage also, beacuse there might be millions of people who belive in it.

    >> This is no claim by any secular person but a request by a normal human being, not believing in a religion is one thing but insulting something which is considered Gods word by some people is really low.

    Dharmvir : Haris thats where the problem lies. Allah has comanded to kill and convert non muslims. I for one cannot respect that. Some people without any self respect and spine may be able to do that.

67. dharmvir
    22. March 2009 - 11:49 AM

    Haris,
    Below are some instances from quran to enligten you.

    1) in Surah 9, ayat 5, the book says, �When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them

    2)Surah 48, ayat 29, it says, �Muhammad is Allah�s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another� Through them Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers.�

    3) surah 8, ayat 39, it says, �Make war on them (idol-worshippers) until idolatry is no more and Allah�s religion reigns supreme.�

    4)surah 2, ayat 193, it again says, �Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah�s religion reigns supreme.�

    5) surah 9, ayat 123, exhorting Muslims to make war on infidels 16 who dwell around you�, it says, �Let them find harshness in you.�

    6)surah 66, ayat 9, an exhortation is given to the prophet to make war on the unbelievers and �deal sternly with them.�

    7)surah 8, ayat 65, it asks the prophet to exhort the Muslims to fight, saying, �If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers.� More or less the same thing is repeated in ayat 66 of the same surah 8.

    8)surah 47, ayats 4 to 15, the Koran calls upon the Muslims to �strike off� the heads of the non-Muslims when the two meet in the battlefield, without minding risking their own lives, for if any of them are killed fighting in the name of Allah they are assured of admission in the paradise.

    9)surah 8, ayat 12, the Koran exhorts the Muslims to �strike off� the heads of the non-Muslims and to �maim them in every limb.�

    10)surah 25, ayat 52, the Muslims are exhorted not to yield to the non-Muslims but to fight them strenuously, while according to surah 9, ayat 39, if anybody does not fight, he will be punished by Allah sternly.

    These are just few of instances. If you want I can point you to more.
    Still don’t want to read quran and see what is in it

68. Yogesh
    22. March 2009 - 2:14 PM

    If I think sati is wrong I can deny and give up the practice, that won’t make me any less Hindu, but you cannot deviate a consonant from what is written in your book even if it says that it is fair for an old man to marry a prepubescent girl.

    You can quote and dissect Mahabharat or Ramayana as much as you like.

    What is bad is bad even if it is in the Mahabharat or the Ramayan or anywhere else, that is the freedom that my religion gives me, which is denied to you.

    Caste is bad,
    Varnashram is bad,
    Democracy is good,
    The earth was not made in a few days but evolved over millions of years
    It was wrong for Ram to drive Sita out of his household what ever the justification.
    Polygamy is wrong.
    Men and women should be equal in the eyes of the law of the land.

    Look I have indulged in what may be considered apostasy and blasphemy because my religion allows me to use my senses.

    I dare you to give your views on
    polygamy
    paedophilia
    one law for men and women
    one law for all humans in all matters
    origin of species
    origin of the earth

    Haris please check this site out,

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/

69. Neoshi
    22. March 2009 - 2:54 PM

    Haris as a pakistani your heart bleeds to see the atrocities committed by your own clan at home front as well as other parts of the world…you have not even tolerance amongst your own brothren the shias, ahmeddiyas, the sufis etc…how can we expect any sense from you…you can pretend as much as you want to be indian and what not…but you cant hide your ostrich like mentality which is so typical of your ilk…have fun

70. Neoshi
    22. March 2009 - 3:29 PM

    Varun gives a fitting reply to all the dime a dozen journalists of these missionary and saudi funded 24/7 media…he says,” each time anyone identified with a hindu community there is a vigours attempt to embaras and brand him a communal..am proud of my faith, not apolegetic about it…wah, wah, Varun finally someone atleast had the guts to give fitting replies to the dime a dozen burkhas, rajdips, etc..etc mouthpieces of divisive factors such as congis, commies and so on…yes, Varun !! this nation is in dire need of people who can stand up to the conspiracies of thes missionary and saudi funded media who bark their masters agenda for survival…their agenda is to subvert the very foundations of tolerance of the Sanaathana Dharmis on which this great nation stands for, accepting and assimilating into their fold any and everyone…watch Varun’s reply to mischief making media clowns..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq1Xhni4AtY

71. Bhavananda
    22. March 2009 - 7:04 PM

    Dudes, all of you, it seems Haris has come from another planet. No offense to him or his ideas, but he seems to be completely ignorant of Indian history and what Hindus suffered for 800 yrs at the hand of muslim rulers. Haris thinks that muslims are not pampered – he forgot that against one Shah Bano, Rajiv Gandhi changed the constitution so that mullahs don’t have to pay alimony.
    Haris asked me to show “proof” that hindus are persecuted in Kashmir. How can one argue with someone who says that?!
    But there is one lesson that we can learn from Haris’ statements and that it the effect of ELM in India, what its propaganda can achieve. And in this respect, Haris is not alone.

72. Incognito
    22. March 2009 - 8:15 PM

    @ Haris(60)

    >>”i am sure you talking about Quran so just name it straight”

    Since you are sure about it, what is the need to name it?

    >>”have you read it, that you know i talks about raging a war or jihad on non belivers? . I have read the text and found no such thing. If you have do enlighten me.”

    I hope you got enlightened by Dharmvir @ 68.

    >>”Tell me this, you want to buy a plot of land for your house, will you ever buy it without seeing and inspecting the land. No na , you will try getting all the info you can get and then only pass your decision.”

    But who wants to buy a plot of Islam?
    The people who migrated to Pakistan at the time of partition apparently did.
    Wouldn’t their children be cursing them, especially the ones who settled in Swat.

    Btw, Haris, chances are, if your grandparents had done the same, you wouldn’t be seen on this blog.
    You would either be cursing the mistakes of your grandparents or you would be sitting in a jail like Ajmal Kasab or maybe, enjoying the 72 no more virgins up above…

    >>”But why is it that before passing a judgement you dont need to read about it and then speak ”

    Now which hoori told you (in your dreams, doubtless) that I dont need to read about it before passing judgement…

    >>”…because speaking and criticizing is the easiest thing to do and costs us nothing.”

    You have demonstrated that.

    >>”Now you have tried justifying the wrongs which i pointed initially in hinduism.”

    Too many false premises in that statement.

    1. You claim that you have pointed out wrongs in ancient indian culture. Which is wrong.

    What you have made are insinuations. Is there an ancient indian scripture that advocated those wrongs to be part of ancient indian culture?

    2. When your insinuations were shown up for what they are, you make accusation of ‘justifying wrongs’.

    Understand that anybody can insinuate someone of committing wrongs. It wouldn’t be ‘justifying wrongs’ if that person exposes the insinuations for being baseless, which is the case here.

    >>”Firstly, i had no intention to insult the wonderful religion of hinduism so incase you giving this clarification out of being hurt then my apologies to you .”

    I felt it right that one who is born in this country should identify the root civilizational concepts that has nurtured this land and come out in support of it if it is deliberately or ignorantly maligned in public. Just as one owe something to his mother’s womb which nurtured him for 10 months and to the mother who nurtured him through his childhood, this country and its civilizational ethos that has nurtured ones’ ancestors and himself is owed by every man who is born here.
    Yes, it includes people of all religious faith.
    This is something more than patriotism and secularism.

    >>”Secondly, i wont try justifying that yo are wrong in your comments of justification because ia m not here to fight and prove to you a point that hinduism is based on wrong beliefs.”

    Too many false premises again. Please refer above regarding false insinuations.

    >>”I was replying to some one comments that lots of flaws in islam and the only motive was to prove this to them that nothing is perfect.”

    You haven’t proven anything yet.

    >>”See what happened in kashmir is a tragedy, but at that time you and me were not there we couldnt do any thing about it. ”

    ‘At that time’ is not in the past. It is here and now. Kashmiri pandits are alive and suffering. And you can definitely do a lot for them.
    For a start, come out in support of them.
    Come out against the fundamentalist muslims whose writ runs in Kashmir.
    Mobilise your muslim brethren against the atrocities committed on kashmiri Pandits.
    Campaign against parties that are party to the atrocities.
    Don’t let kashmir valley go the way of Swat valley, which it is in the process of.

    >>”But if we dont change our mind set we will see many more burning gujarats and demolition of temples and mosques.”

    Let us state facts.
    Sabarmati Express was burned by a mob of muslims charring to death 58 hindu pilgrims including women and children.
    In the reprisals carried out by hindus and muslims, 700 odd muslims and 200 odd hindus were killed.

    Many of the rioters have been convicted.
    But the ones who burned Sabarmati Express are yet not convicted.

    Here is a book that details numerous instances of demolition of Temples by muslims.

    Is there one instance of demolition of mosque by hindus?

    The structure that was demolished at the Ram Janmabhoomi site was a disused building which was locked since 1947.

    A building on which namaz has not been offerred for 40 years is not a mosque.

    And see what is underneath that building.

    >>”we can stop all this if wewant to. ”

    Please tell it to your brothers who are killing people in Kashmir valley.
    Tell it to the muslims of Mumbai who provided support to Ajmal Kasab and party.
    Tell it to the infamous people who inhabited Batla house in Delhi.
    Tell the people who have brought notoriety to Azamgarh.
    Tell the fundamentalist Mullahs.

    >>”Hatred and disgracing some one for what his ancestors have done is right and sensible???”

    It is what the above people are doing now that is being talked about here.
    It is what people like you are refusing to acknowledge that is being talked about here.

    >>”JUSt wait for d day when you write a blog like we indians should realize the agony of kashmiri pandits and gujarati muslims, ”

    Gujarati Muslims are happy with the way Modi has prevented any riot form occuring in the past 8yrs.
    They have moved on.

    It is time people like you, Setalvads and Das followed suit.

    As for the agony of kashmiri Pandits, I would look forward to something more than just blog writing from you. Will you oblige with more substantial actions on the lines mentioned above in this post?

    >>”Lets just wait for that day, i am sure its just round the corner.”

    Considering the way our fellow muslims brothers are allowing fundamentalist Mullahs to dictate terms, it is likely to be an endless wait.

    Meanwhile the population of muslims in India would overtake that of hindus and India would become another Pakistan.

    Some of our fellow muslim brothers would welcome such a thing.

    I don’t know about you.
    But chances are, your grandson may curse you for your inaction and indolence.

    Then again, maybe he will not. If you do not raise him to be a freedom loving responsible human being, which will come to pass if you yourself are not a freedom loving truthful human being.

73. Incognito
    22. March 2009 - 9:25 PM

    @ 50- Palahalli

    While ancient indian scriptures do not support the idea of a birth based caste system, it is interesting to know how and when the activity and temperament based varna system of the ancient indian scriptures turned into birth based caste system in english text books.

    The article here by Timothy Longman shows how Christian missionaries have made a mess of Africa especially Rwanda.

    The article also refers to the book The Creation of Tribalism in Southern Africa edited by Leroy Vail.

    Both the article and the book while referring to what happened in Africa gives a clue to what may have happened in India.

    Extract from the introduction of the book-
    “missionaries were instrumental in creating cultural identities through their specification of ‘custom’ and ‘tradition’ and by writing ‘tribal’ histories, a process discussed in the chapters by Ranger, Vail and White, and Jewsiewicki. Once these elements of culture were in place and available to be used as the cultural base of a distinct new, ascriptive ethnic identity, it could replace older organizing principles that depended upon voluntary clientage and loyalty and which, as such, showed great plasticity. Thus firm, non-porous and relatively inelastic ethnic boundaries, many of which were highly arbitrary, came to be constructed and were then strengthened by the growth of stereotypes of ‘the other’(stress added), as the essays by Siegel and Papstein show…
    …European missionaries, assuming that Africans properly belonged to ‘tribes’, incorporated into the curricula of their mission schools the lesson that the pupils had clear ethnic identities… ”

    In the indian context, caste was used to replace tribes and the missionaries worked with british colonialists.

    “missionaries educated local Africans (who)then themselves served as the most important force in shaping the new ethnic ideologies. These people—usually men—were keenly aware of the forces that were pulling apart their societies and, with the examples of nationalism in Europe derived from their own mission education before them, they sought to craft similar local movements as a means of countering these problems. Despite their own western-style education, they realized that such a construct would best be understood and accepted if it were put in a cultural idiom easily accessible to the people. Thus, in formulating their new ideologies, they looked to the local area’s past for possible raw material for their new intellectual bricolage. Like their European predecessors during the initial stages of nineteenth century nationalism, they ‘rediscovered’ the ‘true values’ of their people and so defined the ‘ethnic soul’. Their cultural strongbox was the ‘customs’ and ‘traditions’ of the people, identification with which they saw as giving an automatic, ascriptive cultural unity to ‘their’ people as they confronted the challenge of colonialism and the impact of industrialization. Virtually every study in this volume demonstrates the role of educated people as key actors in the creation of such ideology…”

    Creation of Arya Samaj, Brahmo Samaj, Congress party etc., in India appears to follow this line of thought .

    “..In those societies where missionaries did not work, or where they did work but did not introduce education along western lines, or where African intellectuals emerged only at a late period or not at all, the development of ethnic ideologies was either stalled or never occurred.”

    “…Ethnic identity, thus, came to be specified not only by the written histories, grammars, and accounts of ‘traditional customs’ produced by local culture brokers, but also—and in many respects, far more importantly—by the actual operation of the administrative mechanisms of indirect rule…”

    Seems very relatable to the pre-independance india.

    “educated local Africans then themselves served as the most important force in shaping the new ethnic ideologies. Combined with the policies of colonial administrators and the popular acceptance of ethnic ideas as a means of coping with the disruptions of modernity, the actions of missionaries helped to create the deep social divisions that are at the root of ethnic conflict in many African countries.”

    Again, has a parallel to pre-independence India.

    ……continued in next post….

74. Incognito
    22. March 2009 - 9:25 PM

    ….continued from prev post….

    Extract from the article-

    “The role of missionaries in the construction of ethnicity in Rwanda offers an excellent example of the process that Vail describes. In Rwanda, missionaries played a primary role in creating ethnic myths and interpreting Rwandan social organization — not only for colonial administrators, but ultimately for the Rwandan population itself. The concepts of ethnicity developed by the missionaries served as a basis for the German and Belgian colonial policies of indirect rule which helped to transform relatively flexible pre-colonial social categories into clearly defined ethnic groups. Following independence, leaders who were trained in church schools relied extensively on ethnic ideologies to gain support, thus helping to intensify and solidify ethnic divisions.”

    Apparently the imperial powers whether british or german or belgian practiced same tactics, most likely in collusion with each other. Max Mueller the german therefore worked for the british in India.
    Antics of the british educated elite after independence in continuing with the british education system and creating divisions in society is comparable to what is narrated in the article.

    Seems like the politicians of India today are following the footsteps of imperial powers by dividing the populace.
    What we are seeing today with the parties warring with each other over vote banks is similar to the tiffs between colonial powers which ultimately resulted in WWII and the end of colonial rule.
    Will a similar thing happen in Indian political scene which will result in vote-bank playing parties weakening and nationalistic ideas gaining ground ?

    “When colonial administrators and Catholic missionaries arrived in Rwanda, they were enchanted by the Tutsi rulers they encountered. To the missionaries, the Tutsi seemed tall and elegant, with refined features and light skin, in some ways closer in appearance to Europeans than to their short, stocky, dark Hutu compatriots. As elsewhere in Africa, in order to convert the population in Rwanda, the missionaries considered it important to understand the indigenous culture and social structures, and the interpretations that came from their study of the culture greatly influenced both the colonial administration and, subsequently, Rwandan self-perceptions. Influenced by contemporary European notions of race which held that the world could be divided into clearly defined and hierarchically ranked racial and national groups, the missionaries, ignoring important divisions within each of the groups, viewed Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa as three distinct peoples representing three separate waves of immigration. They viewed the Twa as the autochthonous population, the original inhabitants of the region, who many centuries earlier were subdued by Bantu migrants from the west who became the Hutu. According to the missionary account, the Tutsi arrived from the northeast sometime later, around 1600, and because of their clear superiority, conquered the Hutu, whom they had ruled ever since. Doubting that Africans could have designed so complex and efficient a political system, the missionaries hypothesized that the Tutsi were not really African but a Hamitic or Semitic group from the Middle East, perhaps a lost tribe of Israel(emphasis added) .”

    How similar this sounds to the Aryan Invasion Theory and the division created between so-called Aryans and Dravidians.

    “The Tutsi, not surprisingly, failed to challenge the missionaries’ assertions of their superiority and instead participated in the development of a mythico-history that portrayed them as natural rulers, with superior intelligence and morals. “

    Again, parallels to how Brahmins and upper castes were patronised by british in india and their silence, which is natural when facing a gun.

    “When the Catholic Church began to recruit native Rwandan clergy early in the century (the first native-born priest was ordained in 1917), they selected exclusively Tutsi, and these priests, nuns, and brothers played an important role in interpreting Rwandan history and culture. A group of Tutsi intellectuals emerged within the church — most importantly historian Alexis Kagame and Bishop Aloys Bigirumwami — whose anthropological and historical texts, based largely on oral histories, reinforced many of the ideas of strict ethnic separation and Tutsi political dominance. As Alison DesForges writes, “In a great and unsung collaborative enterprise over a period of decades, Europeans and Rwandan intellectuals created a history of Rwanda that fit European assumptions and accorded with Tutsi interests.” This history became widely accepted by Rwandans of all ethnicities, and following the transfer of power from Tutsi to Hutu after the 1959 revolution, Hutu leaders used the historical account of centuries of ethnically based exploitation to inspire support among the Hutu masses.”

    And how similar this sounds to the Brahmin/ Dalit divide in India.

    And the Church inspired Maoists killing of Swami and others whose activities fostering indian culture undermines the nefarious activities of Church.

    “When the genocide finally occurred, church personnel and institutions were, not surprisingly, intimately involved“.

    This about Rwanda. But also true about Orissa recently.

    In conclusion the article says-

    “The complicity of the churches in the genocide is not merely a failing of Christianity in Rwanda, but of world Christianity as it has established itself in Africa, and it should lead people of faith throughout the world to question the nature of religious institutions and the ways in which they exercise their power.”

    The ideas brought out by the article and the book sheds light on how social engineering was carried out by the british in India during the time they ruled this country. It shows a pointer to how the colonials destroyed the indigenous education system and installed in its place something that deprived the indigenous people of their self-esteem and simultaneously created divisions in society which are now being exploited by power hungry politicians.

    To conclude, an extract from the book-
    “..Nationalism—and tribalism—have thus appeared uncertain and ambiguous to many observers.
    Yet when one looks closely at the situation in southern Africa, one comes to realize that the ethnic message’s backward-looking aspects and its forward-looking concerns have been in no way contradictory. The emphases on past values, ‘rediscovered’ traditions, and chiefly authority were truly conservative—that is, they were calculated to conserve a way of life that was in the process of being rapidly undermined by the forces of capitalism and colonialism. ”

    Is it any wonder that in India nationalistic organisations such as RSS are opposed by the Church and the products of the british education system as being backward looking conservatives…

    The ideas presented in the book and the article also give a warning of sorts to Indians on what could happen in future if the divisiveness in society created by the british and their successor politicians are allowed to go unchecked.

    Indians needs to learn lessons from the mass killings of Rwanda as a result of reprisal acts committed by different ethinc groups.

    In the Indian context, clashes between Maoists and Ranvir Sena are examples.

    What is happening in Tamil Nadu are ominous.

    So are the Church engineered murder of nationalistic Indians in Orissa.

    Efforts by interested parties(read missionaries) in propagating ideas of Dalitistan and Dravidistan are also significant in the light of this information.

    Jomo Kenyatta, the first Prime Minister and later President of independent Kenya said:-
    “When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

    Hope the following quote will not come to pass for India-
    “They came with ideas of secularism and classless society and Indian thought them good and shut his eyes. When he opened his eyes, they had his land and he had nothing”

75. kaffir
    22. March 2009 - 9:27 PM

    yes buddy there is a difference being amazing human beings and religious/patriotism. I am sure the religion that you believe in ( which i am sure is not hinduism as it never preaches to hate fellow human beings nad justify killing of innocents). So incase you continue believing the religion that u believe in you can never be an amzaing human being as amazing human being will never want to inflict pain and suffering on others.

    -
    Haris, aren’t you assuming a whole lot about me, my religion, my thinking and what I think of my fellow human beings without even knowing anything about me?

    You also didn’t understand my question. My question was: “Is there a conflict between being religious and being patriotic/good human being?”

    Because your comment implied that one can either be patriotic/good human being, or one can be religious, but not both at the same time. I personally don’t see any conflict between being religious and being a good human being. And your comment above doesn’t give any answer.

76. Incognito
    22. March 2009 - 10:10 PM

    Comments 70, 71, 72 awaiting moderation, I suppose due to html tags.

77. S B
    23. March 2009 - 12:25 PM

    About Kalam…
    Haris asked about why the name of Kalam wasn’t raised…

    Does Mr. Haris know about the prominent Islamic scholar who pronounced Kalam as a “bad Muslim” because the latter preferred to get his ethics from Hindu scriptures like Bhagavad Gita ?
    (You can search on the net for the exact fatwa)

    Does Mr. Haris know that Kalam is an authority on Thirukkural which he says has answers to all practical problems ?

    Well, sir, it seems Kalam is a very good human being because he has gone back to the roots of our civilization and precisely because he doesn’t choose to be “good Muslim”.

78. Samar R P
    23. March 2009 - 2:30 PM

    Ok then I suggest read his autobiography and see that he does not bring his religion into every nook and cranny like yourself.

79. Rakesh
    23. March 2009 - 3:00 PM

    The media is against Hindus, Hindus are the victims, they can’t stand up for their rights and BJP is the only saviour! Yah Right…

80. Reddy
    23. March 2009 - 8:35 PM

    In connection with indulging in rampage in a banana plantation belonging to Babbukatte Nityadhar Church and trying to disrupt peace in the region, Ullal policemen arrested seven persons on Wednesday March 18.

    They are Jayson Verghese (23), Vijit Sunny Rozario (21), Araki Alfred (20), Roshan Cutinho (26), all from Nityadhar Nagar and Ronald Roshan (22), a resident of Kuttar Prakash Nagar. They were produced in the court on Wednesday.
    On Monday morning, the banana plantation was found to have been damaged heavily to look as if people belonging to a particular community had barged into the plantation, and a saffron flag had been planted there, signifying that Hindu outfits had been involved with the destruction. The incident took place at a time when Hindu Samajotsav was being organized in the city.

    The policemen said that during interrogation, the arrested persons revealed, they wanted to disturb the peace in the region by projecting the incident as a handiwork of a particular community.
    http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=57924

81. S B
    24. March 2009 - 2:01 PM

    “Ok then I suggest read his autobiography and see that he does not bring his religion into every nook and cranny like yourself.”

    I suggest, as a possibility, and I may be wrong, that the reason Kalam could even think of his country above anything else was his non-commitment to Islam.

    To a Muslim, a GOOD Muslim, Islam and it’s propagation till Qayamat is his first, last and only aim of life.

82. Joe Stalin
    24. March 2009 - 5:05 PM

    was Congress appealing to Muslim votes when it questioned the existence of Lord Ram or when it said the muslims have prior rights to Indian’s resources .

    Congress /UPA uses psuedo secularism/hindu bashing as a smokescreen to hide their own governance /corruption issues so when they attack Varun Gandhi / Modi the attack should be on real issues clean water ,electricity ,poverty none of which have been managed during the 50 odd years of COngress rule

83. Daniel Thomas
    25. March 2009 - 3:22 PM

    Varun Gandhi looks gay. if that is the hindu savior then best of luck…

84. Anwar Shaikh
    25. March 2009 - 5:27 PM

    Daniel, do you know that Tchaikovsky was also gay.

85. suranjan
    26. March 2009 - 11:23 AM

    I am an agnostic born of parents belonging to the Brahmo Samaj. Any Indian who thinks India is only for Hindus or only for Muslims is living in a fool’s paradise. Many Hindus in my city of Kokata have an irrational hate for Muslims. The reason is ignorance. They don’t know enough Muslims. The Muslims I know are in no way inferior to others, in fact some of my Muslim acquaintances over the years like Dr Hossainur Rahman, Munawar Haque (of Patna) and Rahmat Ali are among the finest human beings I have known in my life of fifty-seven years. Many middle-class Muslims I have known have a natural graciousness and refinement that is denied to most of us. I think it was P G Wodehouse who said, ‘Never hate in plurals’. Never think ‘Muslims are bad’ (or for that matter ‘Hindus are bad’). There may be bad individuals in all communities. The country belongs to Hindus, Muslims, other religious groups and non-believers like me. The average Muslim is no more a terrorist than you or me. All Muslim families crave for pace and prosperity like human beings the world over. Our education system has failed to build trust among communities. What a dull place India would have been without Akbar, Shahjahan, Mohammad Rafi, Tansen, Wajid Ali Shah, Yousuf Khan (Dilip Kumar), Shah Rukh Khan, … I could go on endlessly; and the beauty of many Muslim women…!It is not for nothing the number of Muslims exceeds that of Hindus the world over. For one thing, they don’t have caste distinctions. Among Hindus, caste still rules, no matter what people say. Having said this, as a non-religious person, I appeal to all to rise above religion towards humanism. Let religion be a personal matter, if at all. Read Russell’s ‘Why I am not a Christian’ to realise the futility of all religions. Again quoting Russell, let us remember our humanity and forget the rest.

86. dharmvir
    26. March 2009 - 3:05 PM

    >>. Any Indian who thinks India is only for Hindus or only for Muslims is living in a fool’s paradise.

    My dear suranjan, You get it all wrong. The problem is not that muslims are bad. The problem is that Islam is bad. There is a big difference between two. The biggest problem we have in india is that we ddon’t understand difference between two. A muslim can be a good person or bad person depending on how much islam he follows.

    >>Many Hindus in my city of Kokata have an irrational hate for Muslims. The reason is ignorance.

    No the reason is history. If you read carefully, you will find that whenever islam became strong it crushed other philosophies.

    >>> They don’t know enough Muslims. The Muslims I know are in no way inferior to others, in fact some of my Muslim acquaintances over the years like Dr Hossainur Rahman, Munawar Haque (of Patna) and Rahmat Ali are among the finest human beings I have known in my life of fifty-seven years.

    Again confusing between what is problem muslims or islam ?

    >> The country belongs to Hindus, Muslims, other religious groups and non-believers like me.

    People on this blog also believe in the same. that is why they are trying to fight against islam. The day islam comes in power in India. India will become for muslims only.will you be able to remain non-believer that day ?

    >>> they don’t have caste distinctions. Among Hindus, caste still rules, no matter what people say.

    you know so little about muslims and still boast about your knowledge. Ever heard of ashraf and ajlaf ? may be you want to know little bit more.

    >> Having said this, as a non-religious person,

    typical confusion between religiousness and sprituality.

    >>>I appeal to all to rise above religion towards humanism. Let religion be a personal matter, if at all. Read Russell’s ‘Why I am not a Christian’ to realise the futility of all religions.

    Again the bench mark to judge everything has become christianity and islam. Mr suranjan we are more concerned about dharama here than religion. May be you want to understand the difference between the two.

    >>> Again quoting Russell, let us remember our humanity and forget the rest.

    thats what we are trying to do. Islam is antihuman and needs to be opposed by any person calling himself humanist.

87. Ragu
    29. March 2009 - 5:51 AM

    We should file a case on media for waging war against the country by using it for propaganda and destroying the democracy. Arrest all the heads of the low life media houses until some one sane takes up the job.

88. Ridhwan
    29. March 2009 - 7:22 AM

    IM MUSLIM BOY, HAPPY WITH MY LIFE AMONGST MY HINDU FRIENDS WHO UNLIKE VARUN AND A FEW PPL ON THIS BLOG ARE HARD WORKING PPL AND RESPECT OTHERS TO WIN THEIR RESPECT..

    ‘Go to your villages and give the call that all Hindus must unite to save this area from becoming Pakistan…’ BEING MUSLIM DOESNT MEAN U R PAKISTANI..THEY ARENT EVEN RELATED

    ‘Is it not true… that if (a woman) is asked her name and she says Bimla Devi, she is told we’ll see, we’ll think (about giving Government aid), give us Rs 5,000 first… But if her name is Saira Bano or whatever begum Hukum Begum… I don’t even know…’ LAST TIME I CHECKED WE HAD RESERVATIONS FOR HINDUS..RARELY DO U COME ACCROSS THE SAME FOR MUSLIMS, IF ANY..

    ‘These people have such scary-sounding names… Karimullah, Mazharullah… If you ever encountered them at night, you’d be scared.’ I AM SURE THE POOR GUY HAS NOT BEEN AROUND AND HIS BLATANT IGNORANCE SPEAKS WONDERS ABOUT HIS INTELLECT..WONDER WHAT HE WOULD SAY WHEN MEETS PPL LIKE PTHWARO ETC FROM OTHER PLACES..I GUESS MANEKA SHOULD CHANGE HIS DIAPERS REGULARLY IF HE IS SO SCARED..

    ‘I have a sister… there was a pamphlet with pictures of all the candidates… so this child told me, ‘I didn’t know that Osama bin Laden is contesting from your area.’ I told her, ‘America couldn’t get Osama, but Varun Gandhi is going to get a lot of people after the elections.’ HE CAN GET OSAMAS ASS FOR ALL I CARE..OSAMA IS NO MUSLIM LEADER AND WE DONT LOOK UP TO HIM EITHER..IN RETROSPECT HOW DIFFERENT IS OSAMAS IDEOLOGY FROM VARUN GANDHIS..

89. Ridhwan
    29. March 2009 - 7:26 AM

    @ All other ppl who hate muslims..

    I wonder how many muslims you really know..Im sure none..No wonder u made such remarks..I would write in great details about peace and tranquility but i see ignorance amongst ppl here..I would strongly urge them to keep an open mind about other ppl..

90. Jo
    29. March 2009 - 1:16 PM

    Varun Gandhi’s speech honestly defies all logic. He’s claims to be Hindu first. However, he’s Parsi and Sikh before that. I wonder why he never uses his full name “FEROZE VARUN GANDHI” at the rallies.
    If even educated people are unable to look beyond the facade of “standing up for Hindus”, then one cannot doubt the direction the country is taking. It is simply unfortunate that a member of the Nehru family should stoop to such levels to “BEG” for votes.
    Is our country not in enough tumoil, that we need the likes of a Varun Gandhi (rishi-valley educated youth) spitting such venom.
    If there is communal based violence in Pilibet, it is elsewhere as well. What happened to the hundreds of Christians who were beaten out of their churches in Bangalore? So do they go out and hit back?!!!
    This country will be reduced to a graveyard.
    India’s histroy is not the history of Hindus. It is the history of its many embracers. India was not built by Saffronists. No country can claim to be built on direct communal or community-based bloodlines.

    Moreover, if other nations in centuries past had ruled India politically, what about Indians today? Is there a country in the world that Indians are not citizens of. The NRI community across continents now shapes the political climate around the world.

    P.S: Islam is not anti-human. Certain extremist followers of Islam are. I am an Indian living in an Islamic country. A fellow India will cross you by without greeting you, but a Moslem will not. They are some of the most hospitable people in the world. And if we think that only extremeists in Islam resort to violence, then let’s just remember Babri Masjid.

    Going Varun’s way will make a Pakistan out of India. I hope someone will drum sense into this boy.

91. dharmvir
    29. March 2009 - 8:41 PM

    >> @ All other ppl who hate muslims..

    Ridhwan we don’t hate muslims. Atleast I fell that some muslims themselves are victims of so called religion of peace.
    Islam has been inspiring muslims who follow it by heart to wipe out any other philosophy. ie why it needs to be countered. And we need support of good muslims who can distingish between good and bad rather than saying that whatever is there in islam is good. We need good muslims to come forward and save muslims.

    >>I wonder how many muslims you really know..Im sure none..

    I know couple of them. My maid is muslims and she is really nice lady. I don’t have any problem employing her even though if I want I can easily employ a hindu maid. and then my coworker who is kind of fanatic who thinks whole science is there is quran only and whatever is outside quran, is mostly unscientific.
    So as I said you earlier people of india need to understand that muslims are not problem. Islam is…

    >>No wonder u made such remarks..I would write in great details about peace and tranquility but i see ignorance amongst ppl here..

    Please try to remove our ignorance. That is what this blog is for. For the starting purpose you can share you thoughts about science and sprituality in suras which I have quoted in post @68.

    >>> I would strongly urge them to keep an open mind about other ppl..

    I have kept my mind open. please help us in understanding the spritual contents of suras I have quoted above.

92. larissa
    29. March 2009 - 8:43 PM

    ‘A fellow India will cross you by without greeting you, but a Moslem will not. They are some of the most hospitable people in the world…’

    Until they find out that you are Hindu…The treat people like slaves there. Many Indians there end up in domestic servitude in the Middle East and are exploited…They have am inferiority complex when it comes to Westerners but they view South Asians as slaves…forgetting where they came from without oil? The most hospitable people in the world my foot…

93. larissa
    29. March 2009 - 8:57 PM

    Actually the most hospitable Muslims I have known are Iranians who complain their government wants to copy Arabs and say Islam destroyed their old Persian culture…

94. Sam
    29. March 2009 - 11:46 PM

    As an analysis of partiality of Indian media esp the so called news-channels this piece is very very convincing and well documented.

95. Yoosuf Roy
    30. March 2009 - 11:03 AM

    Like father like son….Sanjay Gandhi, a man who hated the muslims to the core. Did Rajiv Gandhi loved the muslims? Mahathma Gandhi adopted Feroz Khan, (renamed Feroz Gandhi) so that Indra Gandhi could marry him. Was Feroz Khan a hindu? Except in India, everywhere the Hindus and muslims live in peace and harmony. I live in Singapore, a multi national nation. The USA is even much a bigger nation. i love to see the muslims and hindus there. They all originated from India. So the conclution is, so long as the communal party BJP exist in India. There will be no peace and harmony among the Hindus and Muslims.

96. R.Sajan
    30. March 2009 - 5:25 PM

    If that place is the Moslem den that you say it is, how has Maneka G been getting elected from there again and again?

97. larissa
    30. March 2009 - 5:30 PM

    It’s because Muslims are not a sizeable population in those countries–look at what is happening in Malmo Sweden–you begins to see what happens when they grow in numbers as opposed to the local population. In USA Muslims are a negligible population–

98. larissa
    30. March 2009 - 5:31 PM

    It’s because Muslims are not a sizeable population in those countries–look at what is happening in Malmo Sweden–you begin to see what happens when they grow in numbers as opposed to the local population. In USA Muslims are a negligible population–America will never be like Europe where there are large #’s of them.

99. larissa
    30. March 2009 - 5:58 PM

    Also take a vacation to Srinagar to see that the Hindus have been exterminated and driven from their homes–not even the ruins of Kashmir has been spared and have been shattered–Kashmir which is very holy for Hindus and Buddhits. It is time the rest of India wakes up to what can happen. They are seeing it already in Pakistan and Afghanistan and the rest of the violent Middle East what are the fate of Muslim nations.

100. vivekiyer1
     30. March 2009 - 11:05 PM

     I have been a leader of the Honduran Chinese community in Pilibhit for many years. Never once have I visited that place or seen any Chinese Honduran people there. However, following the widespread condemnation of Varun Gandhi’s speech by various non Honduran Chinese community leaders, I feel it incumbent on me to
     1) demand redress of the fundamental problems of Pilibhit- viz. inadequate reservation for Honduran Chinese
     2) educational and employment opportunities for Honduran Chinese not in Pilibhit- which I understand to be a shit-hole- but somewhere a reasonable person might want to live
     3) Terrorism by the Chinese Honduran community in Pilibhit is not being adequately subsidized. Self defence is no offence.
     4) Is this the message of Mahatma Gandhi? He said “Health is the only wealth- not silver or gold.”
     Ponder these words before you rush to condemn Varun.

101. kaffir
     30. March 2009 - 11:22 PM

     So the conclution is, so long as the communal party BJP exist in India. There will be no peace and harmony among the Hindus and Muslims.
     ——————-
     Yoosuf Roy, news for you: all political parties in India are communal, not just BJP. Congress is one of the most communal parties ever, though their communal actions don’t get called out by the media and supporters of Congress.

102. santosh
     31. March 2009 - 9:48 PM

     it is heart paining..hindhus are whipped exclusively..this wholly glorious civization with the most sacred knowledge of vedanta to which modern science inching bit by it..none here to understand

103. tulip
     31. March 2009 - 10:39 PM

     Varun gandhi is a racist

104. hustla
     31. March 2009 - 10:47 PM

     Who cares about that damn varun gandhi he looks more like GAY person. When i first saw him i was cracking, because my boss is GAY and he exactly like varun gandhi. You dont have to take his word seriously because woh to adha hai.

105. tintin
     1. April 2009 - 12:16 AM

     well said i totally agree with the contents. it is just much ado about nothing before the elections

106. adarsh
     1. April 2009 - 5:08 PM

     i always thought times of india was a news paper of BJP. i know i am right about it. BJP is the only party which has benefitted by the speech of varun (who actually is trying too hard to remain in politics). this is just a big propoganda directed by BJP stalwarts to gather votes as they have no issue to get votes. varun has just being made a scapegoat by the BHATIYA JHANJHAT PARTY(BJP) as he has a GANDHI tag with him. REALLY CHEAP POLITICS BY BJP.SHAME ON YOU BJP.

107. Joy
     2. April 2009 - 12:25 AM

     I also Think that Varun Looks Like a Gay. As he is not known to indian people that much. He just wanted to acquire some fame………

     SHaMe!………… Shame!

108. Maneesh
     3. April 2009 - 5:14 PM

     Can we please vote for BJP and ban Cow Slaughter in UP and as many other states as possible? Thanks….

109. akhil
     5. April 2009 - 11:41 AM

     wat this boy had said its really gud wat i feel sio

     he is a gr8 indian
     good goin varun

110. umesh
     9. April 2009 - 11:11 AM

     Jai Ho…Jai Ho… Varun Gandhi Ki Jai Ho

     Asli ki communal parties ko ab Bhey ho…bhey ho

     Aaja Aaja jeela Sache hindu ki tarah
     Bewakoof banene wale “secular” partiyon se bachna zara

     inki chikni chupdi baataen nahi Khari
     har roz yeh policy banatein hain nayi

     door raho..insee dooor raho…
     Jai Ho… sache desh bhagat ki jai ho…

     Vote do….isi ko vote do
     jaaaaai hoooo jaaaaai ho….

     Jai Hind !

111. Rajan
     30. April 2009 - 6:22 AM

     Since when have whores begun to shock society?

     Man.. this is exactly what I feel whenever I see these dumb heads in the news. Where do these ppl farkheads come from?

112. Suketu
     30. April 2009 - 12:56 PM

     I agree with Vivek (Refer the first comment) ..the tribulations that the Honduran Chinese community in Pilibhit are being subjected to are a blot on the face of the fine traditions of Indian democracy … I demand that the Pilbhit seat be reserved for the Honduran Chinese community.. I demand representation in the parliament

113. manish mathur
     10. May 2009 - 7:53 AM

     well done varun keep on telling the priorities of the country.let media create controversies.at least some politician have guts to talk about the mot urgent devlopment priorities.not even a single person with little bit concern about the country will disagree with the fact that volcano of population should be stopped immediately.but nobody is ready to talk how.because the answer to ”HOW” will irritate some community.but shame on the politicians who to avoid debate and controversy are leaving contries most burning problem unanswered.generations will remember you varun history will remember you.we are behind you.

114. aastha shukla
     12. May 2009 - 9:32 PM

     This country is the only one in the world where
     the majority is always on the scaffold and
     the minorities forever on the throne.

     (with due regards to T Lowell)

115. Ronnie
     16. May 2009 - 8:29 PM

     The media today can certainly be seen leaning SLIGHTLY to the Congress but nothing excuses what Varun Gandhi said and what he thought would be appropriate to say to woo the voters. He asked people to elect him so he could “sterilize”
     the indian muslim population.I mean come on what more did he have to say to get the camera guys chasing ?.
     But what i find most amusing is that after saying what he did he denied it but started wearing the orange kurta projecting himself as a staunch Hindutva follower and that he meant each and every bigoted word.

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