The Same Story Redux
Wednesday, 13. May 2009 - 2:17 AM
Tuloji Angre was a fearsome Maratha Admiral head honcho under the Marathas. His hold over the sea was absolute and brutal. It took Robert Clive’s cunning to capitalize on the divided Maratha house. He allied with the disgruntled Maratha elements and cobbled a massive force of British warships and the Maratha navy and attacked Angre. In the famous battle of Vijaydurg fort, Angre was decisively beaten. This was Clive’s second victory after the Seige of Arcot. It is incorrect to wholly attribute these victories to Clive’s “genius.” He–the British–merely refined the precedent set by Islamic invaders of the past of pitting native rulers against each other. Ever since the great empires disintegrated, Hindu kings seemed to have completely lost the concept of India’s national unity, and openly sided with alien invaders for petty gains and to settle personal scores. Like the Panchatantra story, the snake finally ate the frog that invited it to kill the frog’s enemies.
This news item reminded me of this country’s sordid history of inviting outsiders to solve our troubles and the resultant enslavement.
In its last days in office, the UPA government has broken with a long-standing policy of disallowing intrusive fact-finding visits from America and permitted a religious vigilante state body from the US to sit in judgement on the extent of India’s religious freedom.
The US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), a statutory body created by the US Congress and funded by the US government, announced yesterday that its members will “travel to India for the first time in June 2009”. [...]
Ever since the US Congress passed an International Religious Freedom Act 1998 and created the USCIRF, it has been trying to visit India, but New Delhi has consistently told the Commission’s members that they will not be given visas for an official visit if they applied for one.
That policy, hitherto followed by the NDA and UPA governments alike, has been in line with the stand taken by governments led by P.V. Narasimha Rao, H.D. Deve Gowda and I.K. Gujral that intrusive inspections by similarly placed US institutions and individuals to sit in judgement on India on issues like human rights would not be permitted.
Government officials, who objected to an USCIRF visit at this time and were overruled, suspect that politics, not diplomacy, is behind the unprecedented permission to allow the Commission into India.
This starkly naked act of mortgaging India’s internal matter to the benign hands of the US is beyond commentary or disgust. Needless, the usual suspects that fuelled this are not hard to spot. This award bestowed upon that Human Rights Major (Hons in Gujarat, 2002), Cedric Prakash, is quite revealing. A gleeful Cedric Prakash is very candid:
Modi cannot nurture prime ministerial dreams unless he is acceptable to the Western world.
You can almost visualize him wiping off the spittle from his mouth with all that drooling. As slavish as that sounds, he gives himself away. Cedric & co are therefore doing their very best to ensure that Modi is never acceptable to the Western world. Example: his role in the US Visa denial to Narendra Modi. Besides, it doesn’t really matter what the West thinks of Modi. But Cedric harbours such grand delusions because he feeds on a different diet.
In light of all this, it’s not a big secret what mischief the USCIRF has in mind when it arrives in India. Indeed, the Telegraph report predicts that
Its members are certain to target Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi on the continuing fallout from Godhra and its aftermath as well as the BJP and other saffron organisations for communal violence in Orissa.
Isn’t it quite reasonable to conclude that this USCIRF team is a bunch of mischief-mongers with the sole purpose of finding what they want to find and pass it off as an unbiased report. And why should we care about America’s definition of religious freedom? But those are not issues at all. Plain and simple, here it is:
Government officials, who objected to an USCIRF visit at this time and were overruled, suspect that politics, not diplomacy, is behind the unprecedented permission to allow the Commission into India.
After the deal that grants the US unrestrained access to our nuclear facilities, this bout of servility allows the US to meddle in India’s religious affairs. To be sure, this couldn’t occur without the permission of the Italian Queen ruling India from New Delhi. The long term impact of this treasonous move is very worrisome. Is it the Christian lobby’s attempt to steadily infiltrate and take over the nation? We have five years’ worth of Church-sponsored misdeeds to guide us. A brief list will suffice:
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Sonia Gandhi’s rule via a puppet. In hindsight, I doubt if she could’ve done what she’s done if she was officially the Indian Prime Minister. You can fault me on this but a highly public office means the spotlight is always on you.
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Sonia’s inner clique is almost entirely Christian–Ambika Soni, Oscar Fernandes, (the now-disgraced) Margaret Alva, AK Anthony, et al.
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A stupid issue like screening Da Vinci Code is exaggerated to catastrophic proportions on frivolous grounds. But the dangerous political machinations again point towards the Christian lobby.
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Sudden and massive spurt of conversions across the country.
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Unforeseen moves like attempts to molest the sanctity of Tirupati and selling of temple lands in Andhra Pradesh.
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Shocking apathy when Hindu religious leaders are brutally murdered but loud and foul-mouthed self-righteous indignation when Hindus protest conversions in Orissa and Karnataka and elsewhere.
And now, this. Doesn’t it remind you of our erstwhile conquerors and/or the snake that bit the frog? The Brits who were just traders graduated to mediators in domestic conflicts because our rulers invited them to mediate. Before we knew it, we became their slaves. Now, these traders suddenly realized their “inherent racial superiority” and began spinning “scientific” theories to the effect. And so it is with this outrageous move. A hint why this move was made possible lies in the behaviour of Congress party members when Sonia was denied the Prime Ministership in 2004.
The Congress party couldn’t have chosen a better time because our entire political class is busy attending primary school. To revise arithmetic.
Tags: Anti-Hindu UPA, Anti-national UPA, Cedric Prakash, Christian Lobby, Commentary, Dangerous Christian Lobby, Imperial Cult, India, Indian Politics, Italian Queen, Politics, Pseudosecularism Hall of Shame, Society & Culture, Sonia Gandhi, Treasonous Congress, UPA, USCIRF
13. May 2009 - 9:21 AM
While I don’t usually agree with you I do agree on this – seeking external validation for internal issues is wrong. And rather slavish.
13. May 2009 - 10:08 AM
That is terribly biased and one-sided. Not doing anything better than the alleged one-sidedness of the pseudo-liberals of the country. You have a right to your opinion, but you’re discounting way too many parallel events just to make your point. You think it’s that easy to take over India?
Most frustratingly, when will people get over Sonia Gandhi’s italian origin? Why do we rejoice with patriotism when Bobby Jindal gets elected in US or some Indian-roots writer gets an award/ astronaut gets international acclaim? We celebrate like crazy declaring ownership of people who only happen to have some Indian connection when we want to join in their achievement, but Sonia Gandhi is “still” an outsider. She’s been here for years now, legally and even aesthetically as much an Indian as anyone else. All she is, is a politician. Like everyone else. Like Narendra Modi who still has the blood of Gujarat 2002 on his hands, just like Sajjan Kumar cannot wipe off 1984. Let’s just judge her for that and not credit her to be the Italian govt’s spy or something. That’s terribly regressive, esp after the last elections showed even popular vote does not care about where the woman was born!
13. May 2009 - 3:27 PM
May I please ask who come under the heading “we” with regards to Young Mr.Jindal or Cute Ms.Williams or Arundhati “Mobile Rebublic” Roy?
Because sub-urban and rural people care a damn for all these people, and of urban population, there exists still, a minority (like Sandeep and many many others) who dont fall in that “we”.
13. May 2009 - 3:33 PM
Sandeep,
Its highly unfortunate to have some external agency investigate these matters. The need of the hour is to go aggressive on these anti-nationals. I think its high we sit on a satyagraha against congress and its wretched games. Only public anger will tame these people.
13. May 2009 - 3:49 PM
Hi Sandeep!
Compeltely concur with your views. is there any way to reach you? via e-mail perhaps? i ask because i work in an organisation that could do with the help of people like you, i.i. politicaly incorrect and not afraid to take an unpopular stand. you have my email. look fwd to eharing from you.
regards,
Pooja
13. May 2009 - 6:46 PM
Yes, it is terribly disturbing that a US body should “investigate” religious freedom in India. Sonia should be impeached as Congress President for this anti-national act.
Modi is CM and he will be PM – come next elections. Whether anyone likes it or not.
13. May 2009 - 10:48 PM
Kedar has asked the right question – something I thought while reading the comment by Phoenix – who are “WE” referred to here. I don’t think there’s anything for an Indian to celebrate for the victory of Bobby “chameleon” Jindal. Plus, there’s just no comparison between his election and Sonia Gandhi. Jindal underwent a full (religious) metamorphosis to be accepted. Nothing like that happened with Sonia. Nor will it ever happen because it is not required to rule over a supplicant group of people (Hindus)
13. May 2009 - 11:47 PM
Bobby “chameleon” Jindal.
Bobby Jindal emigrated to a Christian country and grew up in the “Bible Belt.” His constituents are conservative Christians–so he converted because he wanted to be their governor–I mean he should run elections as a Hindu in Louisiana? Bobby Jindal had the decency to take the religion of his constituents–Sonia Gandhi is still a practising Christian. Her daugher is married to a Christian but they had a Kashmiri wedding nevertheless–I guess for PR?
13. May 2009 - 11:49 PM
when will people get over Sonia Gandhi’s italian origin?
Because they will not–will Americans want to be ruled by a HIndu with a high school degree. There are valid reasons why people do not like her, but there are more shameless politicians in India than her I believe.
14. May 2009 - 12:01 AM
Besides it it the Congress Party who has place Sonia Gandhi where she is as they lack leaders…so that even the daughter-in-law of a former PM will do…I think she’s quite clever and enjoys being treated as queen in India considering her humble origins.
14. May 2009 - 12:24 AM
@Phoenix,
I am not part of that ‘we’ you mentioned and I represent a lot of rural/small town folks.. I never bothered about this Jindal guy..
Comparing Bobby with Sonia is ridiculous due to several reasons..
14. May 2009 - 12:33 AM
sandeep
in about 3 days time as since super duper secular govt returns to power with commie support or not by 2014 i hope the hindu ethtos survives arundathi teesta john dayal cedric prakash i hope it will coz hinduism survived aurangzeb so might just surivive manmohan as well
anywz bright note is that lots of things to blog about so keeping rolling or keep blogging
14. May 2009 - 1:01 AM
Phoenix,
What are you smoking?
14. May 2009 - 8:36 AM
sandeep,
what prejudices from you…WELCOME TO THE VIBRANT GUJARAT GLOBAL INVESTORS SUMMIT…your Modi is so desperately seeking legitimacy from the West …thats the real problem even if you do not want to face it…Does he have the guts to say that he will never ever apply for a US visa or for that matter a Euro Visa..come come…we all know the TRUTH!!You too wake up
14. May 2009 - 2:12 PM
Suresh Shah,
What is wrong with attracting investment.Modi will never compromise on Gujrart/Hindu asmita.He wants to make Gujarat/Bharath strong.
If you cant see his Rajatantra,just shut up.
14. May 2009 - 2:38 PM
Mister Sures Saah:
“your Modi is…”
Yes. He is really our Modi. And we are proud of it.
14. May 2009 - 5:05 PM
@Suresh Shah
Sandeep’s post was about the appropriateness of allowing a foreign agency to sit in moral judgement of our internal matters. Your sly attempt at hijacking the debate towards “whether Modi has the guts….” just gives away your prejudices.
And I understand it too. People who hate Modi for reasons like….well, satisfying fetishes of Teesta and Co. usually cant come to terms with the fact that Modi is surging ahead despite their shrill opposition. That is why the likes of you see a “real problem” where there is none…
Anyway, if you are trying to be the next Cedric Prakash, then you have the right credentials…Go ahead and get in touch with him….You might just be the kind of guy he is looking for…He would love you that extra bit because you claim to know “the TRUTH”. That is what he and his Christist cult claims all the time.
As regards Modi, since he is OUR Modi, YOU have no business in OUR matters.
14. May 2009 - 7:31 PM
Please refer to
USCIRF – will it visit convents where nuns are raped?- By Hilda Raja
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=573
and
Saints for sale – By C I Isaac
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=564
14. May 2009 - 11:19 PM
Dear Suresh Shah,
Modiji indeed did tell a reporter that he is not interested in a US visa. Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOLnwBVnmJk&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KI8Uo5hU04&feature=channel_page
Your response?
15. May 2009 - 10:40 AM
Influence of Christian lobby on UPA is deeper than our imagination. Looks like, even for policy making UPA Govt. was consulting Church.
For instance when Delhi high court asked about Govt.’s
opinion on article 377, ASG went to the extend of quoting Bible in the report.
(http://www.altlawforum.org/377%20Hearings%20Day%208)
16. May 2009 - 5:05 AM
Hi
I kinda appreciate the sentiment of your argument. Bobby Jindal was one example in a list that has everyone from Naipaul to Kalpana Chawla to *some successful cricketer playing for another country* to every damn PIO becoming the prime minister of xyz nation or selected to xyz football team that hits our news headlines, an induces an illusional sense of ownership or even pride in Indians. This is not to claim any preference or personal biases, but at some level, most people, irrespective of religious, economic or social backgrounds, has acknowledged the connection. Maybe the snobbish elites who cae too much about America know Bobby Jindal, and maybe Kalpana Chawla’s tragedy is familiar even in villages in many parts of India.
The point is, it is not the point at all.
So Sonia Gandhi was born in Italy. So what? Is that the only criteria left to judge her? Is every person born on Indian soil necessarily a true Indian/honest, patriotic, loyal countryman? What makes a man (or woman)- birth or action? Janm or karm? And as far as the majority of India’s “we”s are concerned, the rural, suburban, common man, each equally empowered to make a choice, half of them still vouch for dynasty and last names, which is why Congress’s dynasty disease can be seen spreading to almost every political party in the last decade or so. Question that!
Now I am not arguing for or against the historical archives of what Mrs Gandhi did or did not do. That’s an entirely different debate, which is why I said, she deserves to be judged just like any other politician. Just like Advani, Lalu, Karat, Manmohan Singh, Modi, Mayawati and Jayalalitha.
And as far as the need to undergo a “religious” metamorphosis is concerned to be accepted as an Indian, that’s just a load of bullshit. Let’s talk about it the day India calls itself a religious state instead of a secular one, and we call ourselves Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs or christians instead of Indians. Being a Christian in itself does not make her a less, or more, Indian. And by asking for something like that, please do not insult the humility and love of Hinduism. The PM of India, whoever he or she is, does not rule upon a group of supplicant Hindus or wayward Muslims or rebellious Christians or whatever. The PM of India is just the first among equals in a country of Indians, who can learn to live with and despite differences respectfully.
Including differences of opinion on national issues in blog posts.
16. May 2009 - 7:22 AM
Phoenix
“So Sonia Gandhi was born in Italy. So what? Is that the only criteria left to judge her?”
That would not have been a problem if she was loyal to India. People of India have great respect for Annie Besant, Sister Nivedita who were all foreigners. But not Madam Antonia Maino. She took citizenship of India 14 years after she married Rajiv Gandhi. Can you please explain why?
16. May 2009 - 1:16 PM
If any party deserved defeat; it was the secular BJP!
The only sensible thing to do now is for Modi and Yeddi to separate themselves and for the rest of that ‘party’ to dissolve itself into the Congress without much ado.
We the communal Hindus can then be spared the shame of listening to Sudhindra Kulkarni and the likes of him.
I know this is off-topic…but here it is.
16. May 2009 - 5:27 PM
Pala,
Cant agree more sir. Anyway its sure that the muslims will never vote for the BJP, then why all the circus of trying to portray themselves as secular. I hope they learn this lesson sooner than later.
16. May 2009 - 5:30 PM
Remember Me? Five years back this time I commented on your blog “BJP Lost. Why dont u whine?” Now whine for next 5 years more. ROFL!
16. May 2009 - 8:28 PM
We meet again Sandeep. Was that 1 year ago, or two? Anyway, who cares? Suddenly remembered your illiterate whine about the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies predicting that the UPA will come to power again. And periodic yelps about the Economist and other intelligent journals.
Still yelping? Now whine for 5 more years. I took the trouble to travel to India to vote. For the INC. That pleasure was all mine.
16. May 2009 - 8:33 PM
Five more years of terrorism and eventually turning this country to an Islamic republic.
Jai Ho !
16. May 2009 - 10:05 PM
So nice to meet you “nevermind”. Now run along..shoo!
16. May 2009 - 10:39 PM
India is dumb (factual check, average indian iq is smaller than most other countries), Indians are dumb, i am dumb, people get what they deserve,
even after the attacks mumbai voted congress, i dunno what to say.
17. May 2009 - 12:47 AM
Palahalli,
How does that head of yours feel buried in all that sand? Comfortable? Happy whining:-D
17. May 2009 - 1:04 AM
Much better and fresh..away from all that stink your spewing. Did I not shoo you away before? Bad boy! Now go!
17. May 2009 - 4:16 AM
“You’re”, sunshine (or is it sandshine?), not “your”. Not too good with that Macaulayite grammar guff when upset, are we? Tch tch. Now heel, boy, heel! Sorry I stepped on that tail;-)
17. May 2009 - 4:45 AM
Nevermind,
Your posts shows your mental makeup of a sadist; taking pleasure in someone else’s misery. But then, I am sure you will have a fashionable way of putting what you are doing; “rubbing it in”.
Please feel free to enjoy man’s unparalleled access to the joys of sadistic pleasures.
17. May 2009 - 5:01 AM
anup
Interesting experience isn’t it, when the misery is actually yours? And not that of some below-the-poverty line Muslim in a refugee camp in Gujarat or a Christian in Kandhamal. Or a Kashmiri Pandit, for that matter.
17. May 2009 - 5:33 AM
Nevermind,
Did I just now see you sidestep the issue of sadistic pleasures?
No, that was not all. In addition to the deft display of sidestepping, you also managed to show your compassionate side. Wait, not just that, you also held up a mirror to me and showed my unfeeling side for part of the mankind.
Thanks mate…. For what? For you kind effort at my edification, of course!!
17. May 2009 - 6:24 AM
Teaching english to the native now are we “nevermind”? Or is that, teaching “american”?
Learn to never again mess with a beast you don’t understand. You will get bitten badly.
Now what about that BPL Muslim and Christian or Kashmiri Pandit “for that matter” nonsense you were sputtering? Speak clearly or I’ll have to rap you for wasting my time.
17. May 2009 - 11:35 AM
Here is my take on this unimaginable disaster is there was surely anti incumbency with price rise job loss and bomb blasts going off everywhere …
1.In 3 key states namely maharastra,tamil nadu and amdhra pradesh there was this 3 rd angle namely raj thackeray ,chiranjeevi and vijaykanth without any doubt split the anti incumbency vote and helped congress and allies especially in TN where is high voter turnout which means there was considerable anger against Govt
Then of course key state where BJP lost was rajasthan where they were expected to lose but not so heavily
i am sorry this all due that one idiot whom the ELM loves ..lalit modi that idiot made rajasthan into mini casino which deserted even some of the committed voters away no wonder ELM loves him for that stupid IPL
Still that does not explain uttaranchal 5-0 shocker .. maybe punjab losses was due sikh PM farm loans anger against badal and sons but within 2 yrs what did kadhuri do bad i thought he was decent guy remember national highways
and delhi the bjp should throw the the leadership in well same with UP leadership
now comes the scary part with naveen chawla at the helm will BJP ever come to power or on more serious note will congress ever lose power ??
in about 140 seats namely WB,TN,AP and kerala always the seats will change seats between secular and more secular guyz who will then come together to form Govt at the centre to prevent “communal ” forces at bay
then other states will change hands every 5 years like maybe next time jharkhand maybe karnataka ,MP losses will be more steep so congress will always be in power … lo behold we are biggest democracy !!!
17. May 2009 - 2:13 PM
anup:
You’re welcome, anytime.
Palahalli:
Man’s best friend is not quite a “beast” most of the time. And the bark is usually worse the bite, so don’t you worry about me. “Rap?” With what? That tail?
17. May 2009 - 3:16 PM
“Man’s best friend”? Assumptions are the mother of all….
Now, what about that clarity?
17. May 2009 - 8:54 PM
Interesting experience isn’t it, when the misery is actually yours? And not that of some below-the-poverty line Muslim in a refugee camp in Gujarat or a Christian in Kandhamal. Or a Kashmiri Pandit, for that matter.
Sorry but Kashmiri Pandits have mostly gotten out of the camps–they are doctors, engineers and in the USA extremely successful and wealthy–They have helped themselves after losing everything and do not whine. There are very few remaining in the camps now. Which is why people do not notice the plight of those who help themselves–imagine Muslims 400,000 being kicked out of their homes…the liberal press worldwide would have raised a havoc..but when it is quite folk with 100% literacy rates who help themselves after losing everything the liberal press could care less….
So do not compare Kashmiri Pandits with other non-achievers. I have never met one who is uneducated.
17. May 2009 - 8:56 PM
Besides it is not in their nature to while but lift themselves out from the conditions they were forced to bear after being expelled from their homes…I have seen even those raised in camps become engineers…they do not want your sympathy…they just want their ancestral homes back.
17. May 2009 - 8:58 PM
Besides it is not in their nature to whine but lift themselves out from the conditions they were forced to bear after being expelled from their homes…I have seen even those raised in camps become engineers…they do not want your sympathy…they just want their ancestral homes back after being expelled…which considering the current government elected is perhaps a lost cause…
17. May 2009 - 9:00 PM
anup,
You are beginning to sound like Arundhati Roy.
17. May 2009 - 9:14 PM
in about 3 days time as since super duper secular govt returns to power with commie support or not by 2014 i hope the hindu ethtos survives arundathi teesta john dayal cedric prakash i hope it will coz hinduism survived aurangzeb so might just surivive manmohan as well
anywz bright note is that lots of things to blog about so keeping rolling or keep blogging
Exactly my thought…now who will be PM? Rahul Gandhi and then his wife or whoever? Is this a democracy or tyranny of the majority? Looks like politics is lucrative for those who have achievements in nothing…And as India gets poorer and poorer as the Congress wastes money by giving handouts of the money of the boom years which do not go to the poor but to middlemen instead of building infrastructure, when they keep on pressing for more affirmative action instead of investing in quality free mass education…they have already destroyed institutions like the all India Medical institute…and when Indian will be 2 billion people…then Indians will blink and say:
“Look we are the world’s largest democracy look at the wonderful results we achieve” and pat themselves on the shoulder.
When the BJP was in power for a while, I saw a ray of hope…but what to make of a peoples which votes for this kind of governance? Nothing except that people deserve exactly what they vote for….
17. May 2009 - 9:39 PM
The only good thing about this election is that the left declined as well as the “third front.” At least India will have a stable government in the sense that it will not need the support of the left.
17. May 2009 - 9:49 PM
I sort of agree with Palahalli and others. There will be some like “nevermind” who’ll say that BJP isn’t secular enough or didn’t woo the Muslims enough and the attempt by the ELM has just begun(http://ibnlive.in.com/news/bjp-leader-lists-mistake-didnt-woo-muslims/92827-37.html) – but you can’t be holier than thou Congress, so attempting to run after minorities is a non-starter, and the results are in front of us.
There are a lot of reasons for the loss which I discuss in my blog, but one thing is for sure – there’ll be a lot of concerted attempt to make BJP run for the secular votes (just like after 2004) by blamig varun, etc … that will ensure the permanent demise of BJP
17. May 2009 - 10:34 PM
anup,
You are beginning to sound like Arundhati Roy.
OH, Sorry I mistook nevermind’s comments for anup. Nevermind talks like Arundhati Roy I meant to say.
After all it is fashionable now to be an “activist” in India of the kinds like Arundhati Roy, you might get popular in the West this way and become visible and might create a little niche for yourself career wise, and people might think that you are on the side of the oppressed when in fact you could care less but are interested in making a career for yourself of their misery. Recently there was some book club in India and people were commenting on “When will India produce another Arundhati Roy.” What does India produce these days anyway? One can just see the level of thinking of these people…Arundhati Roys and Aravind Adiga…this is the literature of secular democratic India…
17. May 2009 - 10:37 PM
OH, Sorry I mistook nevermind’s comments for anup. Nevermind talks like Arundhati Roy I meant to say.
After all it is fashionable now to be an “activist” in India of the kinds like Arundhati Roy, you might get popular in the West this way and become visible and might create a little niche for yourself career wise, and people might think that you are on the side of the oppressed when in fact you could care less but are interested in making a career for yourself out of their misery. Recently there was some book club in India and people were commenting on “When will India produce another Arundhati Roy.” One can just see the level of thinking of these people of the book club…Arundhati Roys and Aravind Adiga…this is the literature coming out of secular democratic India! Has there been any intellectual heavy weights in India as of late?
17. May 2009 - 11:30 PM
BJP is in need of serious thinking regarding strategy–this is politics after all. How are you to win then the english media is virtually against you and the educated middle class does not vote? Do the same kind of propaganda that Congress does– And raise real issues–learn the art of politics and win over the media..then it might have some chance to win…it needs to move towards center but towards the right of center just as Congress is left of right…I am told that the rural media in India is still nationalistic…why does BJP not spread their campaign through such media intensively?
Why not build alternative news channels and media that reaches our to masses?
17. May 2009 - 11:36 PM
BJP is in need of serious thinking regarding strategy to win elections–this is politics after all. How are you to win when the english media is virtually against you and the educated middle class does not even bother to vote? The media is very powerful. In the US the current president had the mass support of the media. Do the same kind of propaganda that Congress does– And raise real issues–learn the art of politics and win over the masses..then BJP might have some chance to win…it needs to move towards center but towards the right of center just as Congress is left of right as being on the far right is unlikely to win mass votes…I am told that the rural media in India is still nationalistic…why does BJP not spread their campaign through such media intensively and find other fertile sources?
Why not build alternative news channels and media that reaches out to the masses? Build english channels that are favorable to the BJP with the help of business people with deep pockets as an alternative to english media favorable to Congress…BJP is in need of serious reorganization.
18. May 2009 - 3:03 AM
What the BJP needs today is a clear cut decision on the direction it moves into from here. It has two choices, move towards the center, abandon Hindutva and become a “normal, right-of-centre” party. There are a lot of takers to this thought, including the “urban middle class” of voters who never vote.
Two, it has the option of going back to its roots, abandon its recent attempts to become a secular party (as opposed to what it calls pseudosecularism) and become the “Hindu, nationalist party” that it is today alleged to be.
Either way, I belive, BJP is better of being clearly in one of these two than shuffling between, as it has been doing since 2004 because an indecision is sometimes far worse than wrong decision.
18. May 2009 - 9:18 AM
Bhavananda – Completely agree with you. The whole mess about projecting some “moderate” image for Advani put the BJP on the back foot from the start. However it can be argued that this party has always been unconsciously apologetic about its existence starting from something called Integral Humanism (who knows or speaks about it?) to something called Gandhian Socialism to something called being against pseudo-secularism et al. The BJP has for most part made excuses for being amidst us.
Perhaps the only reason it’s supporters lament it’s defeat (and it’s certainly not a crippling defeat) is because they truly believed in its revival which did not come. This party’s cadre is its treasure which is never given their importance. Leaders seem to be content making all sorts of compromises with others while selling snake-oil to its own.
The other thing is that we must suffer gratuitous advice and comments from idiots like “nevermind” (he is just the perfect illustration of an idiot) and a host of other freewheelers in the media. All sorts of suggestions and “to-do’s” will be let afloat.
It’s important that the BJP keeps its head and acts courageously and correctly to be and do what it was meant to be and do.
If the BJP abandons Hindutva (The first thing is to define it clearly and officially. This term has too many fathers and not enough children) and tries to become some “centrist” or “right of center” party, then it must dissolve itself into the Congress. Because the Congress morphs into any kind of party, Left-Center-Right as and when it feels the need. The one thing the Congress does not do is to openly espouse Hindu interests in the manner they must be done. And the Congress is too filled with hostile (anti-Hindu) Congressmen. It is simply not dependable.
18. May 2009 - 7:43 PM
Clearly elections in India is about spending money as a large portion of the voters are illiterate. Congress won because they took the government’s money and gave handouts which did not reach the poor but middlemen. It won because of handouts–you cannot ignore the fact that many vote on this basis. BJP was building infrastructure with the money and did not give handouts, and it lost the elections by a narrow margin in 2004. Handouts is not a solution–developing infrastructure is. India cannot even guarantee quality free schooling for everyone. Which is a better option, building infrastructure or giving handouts? Affirmative action or free quality schooling for everyone? Clearly all the projects of the BJP such as building national highways came to an end when Congress took power. Again the thieves in the Congress will waste the government money and not build anything…and the country will only grow poorer and more overpopulated…
India resembles a corrupt monarchy with a family ruling over–and that family seems to decrease in intelligence over the generations from Nehru onwards it is a downward spiral. I do not blame Sonia Gandhi. She is just a medeocre person placed where she is…I blame the servile people of the Congress who flock around such a leader and make such a leader in the first place.
18. May 2009 - 7:45 PM
And the fact that the highly educated quiet Singh has to consult one with no qualifications on everything is simply beyond belief.
18. May 2009 - 7:46 PM
And the fact that the highly educated quiet Singh has to consult one with no qualifications on approval for everything is simply beyond belief…
18. May 2009 - 9:13 PM
The last thing we want is to blame “people” for not electing BJP into power. Like young kids blame teachers for not giving them enough marks in an exam.
BJP lost not once, but twice and there’s a definite reason. Democratic elections are about feeling the pulse of the people. Who ever said democracy has to be all about doing the best thing? Like building infrastructures and high GDP? Sure, the later things can earn votes, but not necessarily so. My point is BJP has been largely mislead by a group of “middle class, urban, liberal-educated” types into believing that doing *good things* will help them win elections. It surely does help, sometimes, like in Gujarat, but not everywhere else. For God’s sake, none of these “middle class” India votes!!! If <50% of Mumbai votes after 26/11, what proof do we need that these people don’t vote.
So, if rural India votes for free electricity, then give them free electricity. If agri-loan waivers bankrupt the nation but wins elections, do that! Does anyone remember that this is the same MMS that bankrupted India in ‘91? No – he became the “father of reforms”. If Varun can fetch votes on Hindutva, let him do that. Surely it will upset a lot of journalists and “educated people” in Mumbai, Delhi – but THEY DON’T VOTE. Bottomline, I’m not saying that BJP should go down to the level of Congress, but being a gentleman or doing “whats best” is not helping BJP to win elections.
18. May 2009 - 11:14 PM
In India where masses are illiterate and democracy consists of their votes, redistribution of government money to people who do not get it, i.e. wasting it, seems to get votes seems to keep Congress in power–I am not saying that this is what ought to happen or what democracy is meant to be–but what generally happens in India–often people are given money to vote even….
19. May 2009 - 9:10 AM
The bottom line is that populism has won big time over development and national security. Also the anti-Congress feelings in the middle of last year as a result of the severe price rise wore out because the Congress cleverly managed to avoid the no-confidence motion started by the Left’s pullout.
Handing out freebies can still win elections in India and that’s a fact. With such a weak Election Commission willing to turn a blind eye to massive voter-buying, I doubt whether the BJP will have a chance in the near future.
The only hope is the more mature states where people vote on issues, not on handouts.
The other bright spot in this election is the massive defeat of the Left parties as well as the regional casteist forces, who in my opinion, have the potential to do a lot more damage if given any kind of political influence at the Centre.
I’m disappointed at BJP’s loss, but the Congress gained more from the defeat of the Leftist forces than the BJP did and that’s what helped them pull through this time.
22. May 2009 - 1:43 AM
“The last thing we want is to blame “people” for not electing BJP into power. Like young kids blame teachers for not giving them enough marks in an exam.”
It doesnt really matter. its better that Hindutvadis not attach themselves to a political party, thats the best way to play the game. Better to work behind the scenes – besides, I for one am not disappointed at the election results as Pakistan is taking its last breath, and is self-destructing.
23. May 2009 - 2:32 AM
If you want to win elections, you have to win the youth over. That is not going to be easy. Take my case, am in my mid 30’s-finally woke up to the reality of our so called secularism at the age of 27-28. Now, in my youth i was a staunch secularist and BJP-RSS hater. Why? I grew up on a diet of schoolbooks, textbooks all against the evils of “casteism and communism”, which read like a Gandhi family hagiography (and like all children I accepted unquestioningly) and was avid reader of magazines. Now tell me which TV channel, magazine is pro BJP or RSS? Answer: None. They all hate these organizations.
So to win elections, to win over urban youth, BJP has a huge challenge. And it needs to change its approach. And the RSS- seriously guys, get over the khakhi chaddis and shakhas and adopt terms and dresses which would make you the chosen types and not some outside unknown force which is laughed at – which urban kid will be caught in RSS uniform & discipline?
My solution – free martial arts camps, yoga camps, art of living camps – use all the SOFT power at your disposal and bring more and more kids to the reality, as I should have been, instead of living in a propoganda filled haze for all my life.
23. May 2009 - 6:55 AM
Akash >>>>>>>>>”…use all the SOFT power at your disposal and bring more and more kids to the reality, as I should have been, instead of living in a propoganda filled haze for all my life.”
You seems to hold RSS responsible for your misconceptions in younger days about that organisation and about ideas of secularism.
By doing so you tend to ignore that it is you and you alone who is responsible for your beliefs and opinions.
By blaming RSS for their chaddis, shakhas and discipline, which are perhaps not attractive enough for you, you are trying to offload your guilt of not having made considered decisions earlier, for allowing propaganda to lead your way.
Apparently a lot of people within BJP are doing the same thing nowadays- allowing propaganda to guide them.
check out a four part article at “vigilonline dot com”
24. May 2009 - 10:05 PM
“Now, in my youth i was a staunch secularist and BJP-RSS hater. Why? I grew up on a diet of schoolbooks, textbooks all against the evils of “casteism and communism”, which read like a Gandhi family hagiography (and like all children I accepted unquestioningly) and was avid reader of magazines. Now tell me which TV channel, magazine is pro BJP or RSS? Answer: None. They all hate these organizations.”
Akash, why is the perception of RSS among “secular” youth and media the fault of RSS? Sorry, I fail to understand that. You say that now you have awakened and realized that what RSS-BJP had said all along was correct, yet you still blame RSS and not the so-called secular forces? You seem to suggest that RSS needs to change its image to appeal to the youth (who are brainwashed by the media) and fit into what the media approve, yet at the same time, you also say that the media’s “secular” message is incorrect. Shouldn’t you be putting pressure on the media and calling them out for their incorrect portrayal of RSS-BJP and their (media’s) brainwashing instead?
17. June 2009 - 5:50 AM
This is quite interesting now, given that India has actually rejected the visa for USCIRF.
Here: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US-religious-freedom-watchdogs-denied-visa/articleshow/4664454.cms
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Mind-bonging?