Whither BJP
Monday, 25. May 2009 - 1:47 AM
Congress is back with a bigger bang and the Puppet Prime Minister has been sworn in for a consecutive term. He shares this rare distinction of a consecutive term in office only after the mighty Indira Gandhi.
Actually this nation deserves perpetual rule by the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty. That way, we’ll have at least nothing to look forward to. And I’m not saying this out of anger. India is one human heap of pusillanimous people completely devoid of a sense of history, lacking the will to recover our collective spiritual consciousness, and being content to be grovel under the kind of people that now rule us.
The BJP rout in the 2009 polls is perhaps the best and most recent example that illustrates this.
You can call me presumptuous but I expected the BJP to be mauled badly this time. Thankfully, I wasn’t disappointed. If you look at the party’s history, it’s clear that the BJP successfully builds some amazing momentum but suddenly develops inexplicable bouts of cowardice as it reaches the goal post.
Let’s start with the event that made the BJP a political superpower.
I care zilch for the secular explanations for the Babri Masjid demolition. I’m convinced it was a very defining event with great potential for national and social re-integration. Babri Masjid demolition was the perfect opportunity to bridge social and communal differences. The run up to the evidence-gathering phase altered the course of public discourse in a huge way. It reawakened–to a significant extent–a sense of pride about our past. Large sections of people began efforts to recover this past and apply its riches to the present. More importantly, it was the golden opportunity to reintegrate Muslims and Christians–exploited as victimized minorities under the guise of secularism–back into the Hindu fold. The key word is reintegrate, not convert. With good reason: there’s nothing in Islam or Christianity that Hinduism cannot offer except perhaps the Us versus them violent monotheism. Most Indian Muslims have Hindu ancestry and there’s no logical reason for them not to return to the Hindu fold. This wouldn’t have happened overnight but then the demolition provided the best opportunity to steer public discourse in that direction. When the BJP squandered this opportunity, the only way was downhill.
As Elst observes, the BJP today looks like the Congress party’s B-team. You can’t react with stunned looks of disbelief when people voted for the Original instead of the B-team. And I don’t really buy into the doctored EVM theory unless it’s backed by really strong evidence.
It’s also pointless to blame individual BJP leaders for the defeat. The truth lies in is the nature of the BJP’s behaviour: when it’s near or in power (to borrow from Elst), it lapses into tremendous and overconfident self-congratulatory rapture. It takes but just one thwack to completely demoralize it. Actually, the BJP never really recovered from the unexpected defeat in the 2004 elections. It consistently goofed up on issue after issue while the Left played the role of the Opposition more effectively than the BJP. It gave sticks to an already-hostile secular media to beat it up. It confused and confounded its own support base by flip-flopping on crucial issues at regular intervals. Its 2009 election run up was a joke. Most importantly, the Congress party’s spectacular score was not at the cost of the BJP. Doesn’t that point to something?
The Congress party’s biggest strength remains this: once in power, it wastes no time in demolishing its political rivals. This is not to condone its methods. Rather, it is to show the difference in approach between the two. However, what’s puzzling is the BJP’s performance in the states it rules. In Karnataka, Gujarat and to an extent, Madhya Pradesh, there’s no worthy Opposition to the BJP. Yet at the national level, the party has been reduced to dust.
In the end, this party is in terminal trouble. Whether it withers or blooms is a question of time. At present, the prospects for the former happening are greater.
Tags: 15th Lok Sabha, BJP, BJP Debacle, Commentary, Congress, Elections 2009, India, Indian Elections 2009, Indian Politics, Indian Polls 2009, Politics, UPA
25. May 2009 - 3:44 AM
With no presence in 5 coastal states accounting for 164 seats (not even allies this time), I never expected the BJP to do any better. Factor in UP where the party has a demographic disadvantage and fared well just once or twice, you will get the true picture.
Quoting Swapan Dasgupta, “The BJP has not fought any election on the basis of assertive Hindu nationalism since 1996. Its best victories were won on the strength of bread-and-butter issues of stability, development and anti-incumbency. Gujarat 2002 was the only exception. Despite this, the party has come to be associated with menacing communalism of the Ram Sena and Kandhamal varieties and tasteless hate speeches.”
25. May 2009 - 7:00 AM
Sandeep,
Along with Konrad’s views this is certainly one of the best pieces I’ve come up so far. Else where Atanu laments that everytime congress is elected it throws us back by 1 generation.
I’ve been feeling physically sick since the 16th of May when the results were first announced. The results held no surprise for me ; it is the relentless postmortem by the intellectuals of how great and wise the electorate is; how the result is amessage for sickularism; Sonia’s charishma blah.. blah… till commercial break.
And therein lies the biggest greatest failure of us as people
We have this enormous endless infallible (I’m running short of adjectives ) capacity for intellectual spin. So in simple plain speak what can be described as an utterly clueless bunch of blind fools gets spun into a politically smart voter. Sample this for our smartness
-One film star rises an arm in aknowledgement of his fans in TN and all political caluculators go into an overdrive.
–An ageing superstar from AP decides to enter politics and all caluculations go messy.
- The discussion in the mainstreaam media is not about how stagnant the Congress has become but on what an uncanny resemblance to her grandmother does Priyanka bear.
I have used the metaphor of the elephant and the eight blind men in so many other situations that it has now become my favorite tale . My 5 yr old daughter understands it .
And that is what the indian democracy is shorn of all the political correctness speak.
No one knows what party will win or what issues will click. No one cares what the needs of the people are or what the future holds.
In steps the media with its pinky marx glasses and tells us 24 X 7 this is what we need Secularism(Shame on Hindoos!!!, Socialism (rice @ Rs 2)and Soverignity( if we are attacked WE WILL RESPOND but after consent from the US and the UN.
Generation after generation afflicted with this strange political correctness we refuse to see the ugly nakedness of our collective stupidity.
I think we deserve the governance we get.
Congratulatulations to us for Rs2/kg rice and getting a handsome future prime minister (Oooh ! he looks so cute and I understand he has six packs too ) We can run our foreign policy with his looks and the domestic economics , well he’ll use his London M.Phil. to good effect.
25. May 2009 - 8:25 AM
Are you for real, dude? Seriously?
25. May 2009 - 8:42 AM
Don’t be discouraged. I think that the circumstances of this election favoured the Congress more than the BJP.
The BJP’s core is, I believe, still strong. Maybe dormant, but it has far more leadership material than Congress which cannot look beyond the Family. I think that though this election is a setback, the BJP will gain in States which are traditionally hostile. The time taken will be longer, but the secular lie cannot forever take hold of the people.
Already, I think that the first battle has been won. The Communists have been shown their place: West Bengal has seen historical events. Regional Casteist forces have been decisively shown the thumbs down by people.
This time, the Congress will be under severe pressure to perform as they cannot blame anybody but themselves for failure. The people have actually been clever in giving them a decisive victory, because if the Congress fail this time, there will be no anger directed at anybody but the Congress party. On the other hand, if the Congress really does perform, then who’s going to complain? The BJP will still remain the only other party of choice for national governance.
25. May 2009 - 10:26 AM
The whole nation has to unite to kill the monster of tamil casteism.It was TN which was responsible for the congress to return in 2004.
Tamil linguistic chauvinism has to be combated.
25. May 2009 - 12:26 PM
Dear Sir,
Either you’re completely thick skulled and do not even know the meaning of the words that you use or someone dropped you on your head when you were young. Hopefully all you need is a good dictionary.
Destruction of babri masjid is the, “golden opportunity to reintegrate Muslims and Christians–exploited as victimized minorities under the guise of secularism–back into the Hindu fold” What are you smoking?
You and your ideas disturb me, not because they are ludicrous, but that there are others in this world who would hail them. Is this how all BJP sympathizers think?
You all deserve each other.
25. May 2009 - 1:10 PM
Actually this nation deserves perpetual rule by the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty. That way, we’ll have at least nothing to look forward to. And I’m not saying this out of anger. India is one human heap of pusillanimous people completely devoid of a sense of history, lacking the will to recover our collective spiritual consciousness, and being content to be grovel under the kind of people that now rule us.
Very well said..
I wanted to say this for a long time, but I would have been branded “unpatriotic” and “anti-national” by people who take Times of India too seriously.
When I have said something similar in the company of friends, I have found more opposition from the leftist-socialists rather than the rightists. Strangely enough, the general perception is that rightists like us do not trash their country.
We sure deserve the “Mera Bhaarat Mahaan” and “Jai Ho” as popular national slogans.
25. May 2009 - 2:46 PM
“Ravi says:
Sandeep,
Along with Konrad’s views this is certainly one of the best pieces I’ve come up so far. Else where Atanu laments that everytime congress is elected it throws us back by 1 generation.
I’ve been feeling physically sick since the 16th of May when the results were first announced. The results held no surprise for me ; it is the relentless postmortem by the intellectuals of how great and wise the electorate is; how the result is amessage for sickularism; Sonia’s charishma blah.. blah… till commercial break.
And therein lies the biggest greatest failure of us as people
We have this enormous endless infallible (I’m running short of adjectives ) capacity for intellectual spin. So in simple plain speak what can be described as an utterly clueless bunch of blind fools gets spun into a politically smart voter. Sample this for our smartness
-One film star rises an arm in aknowledgement of his fans in TN and all political caluculators go into an overdrive.
–An ageing superstar from AP decides to enter politics and all caluculations go messy.
- The discussion in the mainstreaam media is not about how stagnant the Congress has become but on what an uncanny resemblance to her grandmother does Priyanka bear.”
Dear Ravi – Welcome to the psy-ops of the Vatican. What you have been going through is exactly that. NDTV is funded by the Vatican and Prannoy Roy’s full name is Prannoy James Roy. Suzanne Arundhati Roy is his niece and she wants to give Kashmir to the Jihadis. Vatican is funding a lot of media in order to create chaos and confusion so that its troops (the Missionaries) find it easier to convert. This is the reason you have been bombarded with “Hinduism-and-its-practices-are-evil” type of soaps and talk shows that make out Modi to be a mass-murderer (never mind that half a million Kashmiri Hindus are displaced, never mind that Hindus of Mizoram are terrorized by Christians, never mind that the Hindus of Kerala are threatened, just never mind and watch the media talk about Sati – never mind that the Catholic church in Ireland has just now been found to indulge in paedophilia.)
Vatican’s modus operandi is spreading confusion – during the World War II, the Vatican was running concentration camps in Croatia, and after the war the Pope got Golda Meir to write a book about how the Vatican saved 700000 Jews. Pius XII did save some Jews when he saw the end of the Nazis near, but it was only to save the reputation of the Church. In Croatia, the holy fathers were busy killing Jews, Serbians, and Gypsies on the direct command of His Holiness.
The Catholic church is a political movement, and with Europe going Pagan, its focus is on Asia and Africa. The church does not have a chance in China, so it is focusing on India big time.
Results are there for us to see.
25. May 2009 - 3:10 PM
http://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=20090523_04
Sri Lanka is blessed with a leader like Mahinda.
Advani is surely not a tiger; for according to the Chinese proverb, there cannot be two tigers in a mountain. With his pusillanimity, he has run the BJP into the ground. Not just him, Vajpayee as well. They did not strike when the iron was hot.
As it is it was a difficult sell for Hindutva; now it’s going to be near impossible. Let’s see what the BJP has in store for us in the future. Advani, the Majboot neta was so shell shocked with the results that it took him a week before he faced the public today at Ahmedabad.
I think everything happens for a reason and the reason is that the BJP was not the right party to champion the cause of Bharatavarsha.
25. May 2009 - 5:47 PM
Hindus are not to blame. It’s the leaders who lead them down the garden path. Be it the Congress or the BJP. Please remember that it was the same people who supported the Janmabhoomi movement in their millions. They did not ask the BJP to surrender. They did not call the Mandir an “encashed cheque”.
I also feel that us Hindu Nationalists cover up for the BJP too much and do not take it to task when it does nonsensical things. We tend to rationalize it as “opposition” and “not in government” etc. A major opposition party must always be treated like it will come to power tomorrow. The BJP’s cadre and well wishers should have hauled it over coals more often and whenever it compromised Hindutva.
Btw, what’s up with Swapan Dasgupta? He’s writing like a swooning fan of a rock star! Wake up Sir!
25. May 2009 - 8:17 PM
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=2114
this thread has thrown up some interesting comments on both sides of the aisle … worth a look ….
25. May 2009 - 10:20 PM
@Sandeep
About Babari masjid: I don’t think it’s ever been the case in history that emotional or physical violence against a group has led to the group being integrated with the mainstream. If anything, it fans hatred and deepens divisions. I simply can’t understand your claim that “it was the golden opportunity to reintegrate Muslims and Christians–exploited as victimized minorities under the guise of secularism–back into the Hindu fold.” Surely you appreciate that the theology and politics of Christianity and Islam is based on creating and sustaining an abhorrence for all other religions and cultures (including their own former religion). Maybe you have a deeper angle here but I don’t see it and I don’t think it’s possible to manage public emotions finely enough to do something like that.
You also say that “The Congress party’s biggest strength remains this: once in power, it wastes no time in demolishing its political rivals.” This is a great observation. The BJP operates with some respect for democratic institutions (though the same cannot be said of the VHP, RSS and other organizations). The Congress way is brazen political thuggery and blatant misuse of power. But here lies the rub: respect for those “democratic institutions” is the rich man’s preserve in India. I imagine the poorer masses look upon it as a curious idiosyncrasy. Hell, they probably admire Sonia for helping her friend Quattrocchi out. In The White Tiger, Aravind Adiga has an anecdote about a village schoolteacher who takes all of the government money for the villagers’ children’s books and uniforms. The villagers aren’t angry with him for this. In fact, they’re a little proud of him for getting away with it so cleanly. Same concept with the Congress. I think the BJP’s political conduct is unfamiliar, officious and intellectually uncomfortable, while the Congress’s behaviour is familiar: it’s what the voter would do in the Congress minister’s place.
@Ravi
“The results held no surprise for me ; it is the relentless postmortem by the intellectuals of how great and wise the electorate is; how the result is amessage for sickularism; Sonia’s charishma blah.. blah…” My thoughts exactly. It’s not so much reporting as an attempt foist silly opinions unsupported by any investigation onto readers. It’s been going on since before the voting began.
“No one knows what party will win or what issues will click. No one cares what the needs of the people are or what the future holds.” I think this is a hugely important but completely underrated point. In real democracies, the media spends a lot of time and effort and money trying to learn what matters to the people. In India you have, at best, armchair speculation from journos whose ignorance is revealed when all their predictions fall flat. And at worst, spin doctor journos who deliberately try to directly influence voter opinion rather than report what it is. No one seems interested in actually collecting DATA to know what the voters care about.
26. May 2009 - 1:45 AM
In my view, the following were the major cause for BJP/NDA’s debacle.
1. BJP overestimated its strength in Orissa, and that caused breakup of a long-standing alliance with BJD. I believe Naveen would not have walked out, had BJP been soft on the expectation.
2. They have not built a base in AP, TN, WB all these years. They needed strong allies, and that too did not happen.
3. BJP speakers gave a handle to the anti-BJP media to play out their comments (some may have been used out of context) – this was used to project anti-BJP image among the youth.
4.They failed badly in Rajasthan, while MP gave them a shock. (The way Karnataka CM is running the show, expect this state to slip out at the time of next election.)
5. Their reliance on unreliable allies like INLD was not good.
6.There is no replacement for hard groundwork to build the party. While Rahul galvanized his team, BJP did not match him. BJP needs to work hard to recover lost ground and capture the imagination of the youth.
7. It is time for some of the old timers to make way for the young, bright members to take over. Otherwise, the party will again be found wanting at the next election too.
8. BJP did raise important issues, but the media did not help focus on them. The swiss black money is an issue to be pursued to the logical end (of recovering it). BJP should keep a tab on the acts of the govt, as the case is in the supreme court.
26. May 2009 - 4:38 AM
I agree with Gururaj,the points he writen down are more important to discuss who demolishes the Babri Musjid or some of Sonia Charismaa.BJP need to workout on all the aspects right now onward which leads them to failed in this last election.They have to be proactive and more aggresive in putting their right image not amoung the urben but in viliages and rural areas.They have to be more strong and have to show less negotiating party with intreset of national issues, and national intreset.They have to change their thoughts and view by including some new generation and under the supervision of great leaders.
26. May 2009 - 3:24 PM
I think BJP is trying to be secular and failing to do so.
As long as BJP tries to be secular is is bound to be rejected by voters.
26. May 2009 - 3:33 PM
>>I’m not saying this out of anger.
followed imediately by –
>> India is one human heap of pusillanimous people
>> completely devoid of a sense of history, lacking
>> the will to recover our collective spiritual
>> consciousness, and being content to be grovel
>> under the kind of people that now rule us.
of course no anger. none at all.
you and bjp will never understand. you keep calling people names, you keep feelng moraly superior to them… you lose their votes. if this is your take on election, no wonder bjp lost.
>> the Congress party’s spectacular score was not
>> at the cost of the BJP. Doesn’t that point to
>> something?
it points to your inwillingness to face reality. bjp has lost abt 60, or one third, seats since 180+ in ‘99. somebody else is winning those seats, but the bjp lost them. more the bjp supporter is keeping on syaing “we didnt lost that much” or “CONgress score not at the cost of BJP”, more the chances of more sliding in next election.
26. May 2009 - 3:39 PM
@spoonman —
>> You and your ideas disturb me, not because they
>> are ludicrous, but that there are others in this
>> world who would hail them. Is this how all BJP
>> sympathizers think?
not all think like this. some of us blv that way forward for party is to shed the abuse and non-logic you are finding on this pages. sympathizers like these will send party into obvlivion.
26. May 2009 - 5:17 PM
I am glad that this time around atleast the ‘well wishers’ of BJP are ready for introspection. BJP is not planning and it not inclined to a serious evaluation. Like many rants in the blogs and comments, they keep blaming the ‘useless’ Indians who ‘deserve’ to be ruled Congress. Sounding that it is a punishment and a BJP rule is a God send. That is precisly the problem. BJP and its leaders behave and talk as if they are God’s gift to mankind while it is NOT!
Someone says that where BJP gave good governance it has managed to win. Scratch the ‘good governance’ and what you get is free rice or subsidised rice. More promises and more freebies. Mr.Modi went on to ridicule the Congress manifesto stating that Congress plans to buy the rice he is giving in Gujarat to distribute to the country. He did not realise what he is admitting is that his PDS is flawed and leaky so that Congress or any other third party can ‘buy’ it from the Gujarat PDS and make profits! The Nano effect on Gujarat is lost. What happened? We need genuine answers.
Politics like markets, is a perception game. And the bottom line is Congress won that perception. You can analyse the verdict to draw convenient inferences but that does not help. Let the debate be inward looking – not just blaming dynasties and suspecting the ‘wisdom’ of people as they did not vote for BJP.
There are subtle message on how BJP behaves near power. I feel while they are reasonably responsible in power, they are unable to stay out of it. Their disruptive brand of parlimentary record is the main reason for falling in the perception game.
Can BJP take independent organisational decisions? It has to factor RSS inputs. So why look for puppets outside the system when we have one in BJP?
Let the debate give directions to a party which squandered the 5 years in opposition and is only faltering further. As noted ‘Most importantly, the Congress party’s spectacular score was not at the cost of the BJP. Doesn’t that point to something?
regards
Mohan
26. May 2009 - 8:15 PM
India is one human heap of pusillanimous people
>> completely devoid of a sense of history, lacking
>> the will to recover our collective spiritual
>> consciousness, and being content to be grovel
>> under the kind of people that now rule us.
that’s right–that’s why they put as the head of their Congress party an Italian cindarella ( according to an ad I read in the NY times) with a high school education–and the family of mediocrities that leeches on the achievements of the great-grandfather Nehru who despite the mistakes for which India suffers dearly was not a mediocre man….just look at who Indians place as the leader of their party…which democracy would tolerate this? I guess the message the Congress gives is that this is what India deserves….
26. May 2009 - 8:27 PM
I am tired about hearing about the Gandhi family of mediocrities constatantly in the papers. Look at what India has turned into in sixty years– an ever growing population that increased fourfold since Congress came to power. I recall that India was the first country to think of population control measures in the fifties? What became of that?
You don’t have to look at politics…just watch a Bollywood movie to see that Indian culture has degenerated to… I remember some Indian recommended Jodha Akbar to me. I could not even watch it for more than 30 minutes…the historical distortions were just too much and nauseating, barely noticed by Hindus gleefully clapping to the movie…Can you watch one till the end? A culture is reflected in the art, architecture, music and literature a peoples produces. And the West is not doing great either in this respect…
26. May 2009 - 8:54 PM
I’ve been feeling physically sick since the 16th of May when the results were first announced. The results held no surprise for me ; it is the relentless postmortem by the intellectuals of how great and wise the electorate is; how the result is amessage for sickularism; Sonia’s charishma blah.. blah… till commercial break.
The elections made me feel “sick” too as I was following them closely and was hoping not to have to see the the Gandhi family ever again in power. What rubbish the press utters: what charisma? I think even Nehru would be rolling in the grave to see what a farce Congress has become….The worst is our toxic media which is incapable of rational discourse on a higher level…God four more years of Congress…India deserves much better…I am not saying the BJP has all the answers but they are not a family run party at least…
27. May 2009 - 2:36 AM
larissa, five years, not four. This is not America.
27. May 2009 - 8:12 AM
Bjp deserved what it got. I urge you all to read Ms Radha Rajan’s piece in Vijayavani on this. Please go through her 4 part artcile
http://www.vijayvaani.com/
27. May 2009 - 10:43 AM
The discourse I’ve read above is such an incredible collection of drivel… all of it is the collective outcry of a schizophrenic bunch of people, completely aghast that India has rejected their system and theory of politics, of hate, of pitting one against the other, of instilling fear to garner votes, of Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian equations.
I’m an atheist, I’ve voted BJP once and I’ll tell you why the BJP lost and why its script needs to be completely rewritten if it is not to completely vanish from Indian politics:
1. Hinduism is not the narrow, parochial system the BJP would like their Hindus to understand it as! From the discourse I see above, I think none of the writers can see Hinduism with the clarity the rest of India can see it – as an inclusive way of life, which couldn’t care a damn about your god or my god or any one else’s – as long as I know my god listens to me, that’s all I need to lead a happy life. Once the BJP and its fundamentalist cohorts can understand this one small aspect about the Hindu faith, they’ll probably be able to move out of the quicksand they’re in.
2. No one but no one browbeats, abuses and shows down the security forces! The people of India are very nationalistic and respect the security forces. And anyone who browbeats them when a Hindu terrorist is arrested is seen as an anti-national element. Don’t do it in future!
3. You do not allow thugs to hold forth in public about cutting off people’s hands and necks and then be seen to be supportive of that stand! Grow up – you’re in 2009, not in Changez Khan’s time!
4. You cannot be seen to represent the lunatic fringe who would kill priests, beat up women, applaud rabble rousers and their ilk. Yes, I can already hear protests about the BJP not being part of it. That’s a pity though… because as hoarse as you might cry yourselves about your innocence, the Indian voter doesn’t see you as innocent as you see yourself! Get your act together – no one wants a goonda in his back yard, no one. And as a legislator, not any longer!
5. The world is not fair and none of you can make it so. Realpolitik is the name of the game… so we will make friends with the US and with China. And we will ask the UN before we do a lot of things. That’s the way you also conduct your daily life, don’t you? So grow up about foreign policy!
And most of all, please don’t ask me for my vote by frightening me about the Muslim or the Christian or the Sikh or anyone else… I, the Indian Voter and Atheist Hindu, don’t fear any of them and they don’t fear me. But when you attempt to garner my vote with those tactics you show up as very childish. Really!
I hope you have the strength to let this rejoinder be published as a comment to your blog.
Rajiv Tyagi
27. May 2009 - 11:09 AM
Sandeep,
i get what your saying. the results had a profound impact on me too. i began to question if it was me who was on the wrong side of things. but i then was reminded of “matsyanyaya” – “big fish eat small fish”. the one with power weilds it to its utmost advantage. this gives it more opportunity to gain more power. its like a vicious circle. the incentives drives the market i guess. for instance (off the top of my head) the fact that raja is to be reinstated as the telecom minister after all he has done speaks volumes of the character and integrity (the lack of it) in the party.
i have a question sandeep. would be curious to know your views about it. you said “With good reason: there’s nothing in Islam or Christianity that Hinduism cannot offer except perhaps the Us versus them violent monotheism.” firstly to clarify a few things i deeply respect and admire the concepts expounded in our religion. but i always wondered as to what does it mean to the lay man? as in a person who is deprived of one good meal will rather think of earning his bread for the day than think about say “karma” and that IMO is the major drawback of hinduism.
the abrahamic religions were created with a different purpose in mind with little importance given to intellectual/spiritual development. so harvesting our souls became a kind of a duty. with this as their vision they set about achieving their goals by intelligent policies. they provide them with free meals if they attend the religious institutions regularly, they are provided with free medical services and so on.
to quote an instance a night watchman near my house goes to the mass every sunday because they are promised a loaf of bread and if children tag along the amount is doubled. when such are the incentives why wouldnt a person with a meagre income choose that path? what has hinduism as a religion got to offer that person? i am not suggesting that there needs to be a central authority like the vatican to represent our religion and direct our path because that is a disaster in the making. we need a better and innovative solution.
IMHO we first need to question ourselves whether we need to preserve our culture and religion? what is its purpose? is it relevant to us? will it help us develope into better people? if so how? when we are convinced about it only then we need to start working on ways of achieving it. only this sort of foundation can bring about a change that can withstand any sort of turbulance.
i totally agree with the fact that “people are completely devoid of a sense of history” and respect/pride in the achievement of our ancestors. its just a matter of time before the fist pages of indian history will begin with the east india company’s achievements.
27. May 2009 - 12:40 PM
You guys have so much hate within urself. First you hate every Non-Hindu and support the BJP. Now that the BJP has lost, you hate the BJP… Thankfully, you guys are not in the majority.
27. May 2009 - 12:43 PM
And yes, agree completely with Rajiv Tyagi… I had voted for the BJP once but sadly, its way off mark now. The reasons why I did not vote for the BJP are exactly what Rajiv says in his comment above.
27. May 2009 - 1:08 PM
Rajiv,
If your analysis is correct, how will you justify rise of BJP with ayodhya movement.Was general public became fanatic at that time. Even 1999 they got 180 seats ?
Looks like you are watching too much of NDTV and IBN.
>>Hinduism is not the narrow, parochial system the BJP would like their Hindus to understand it as! From the discourse I see above, I think none of the writers can see Hinduism with the clarity the rest of India can see it – as an inclusive way of life, which couldn’t care a damn about your god or my god or any one else’s.
You get it all wrong the fight is not about your god vs my god. It is dharma vs adharma. and Dharma is not hindi translation of religion.
>> You do not allow thugs to hold forth in public about cutting off people’s hands and necks and then be seen to be supportive of that stand!
But burning people alive is ok. that must be secularism ?
your observation show how easy it is to brainwash people if you have control over TV.
A bitter turth for you – TV is not always correct.
27. May 2009 - 3:02 PM
good show mr rajiv. this whole blogg is about fear. the people you seen writing on this page are wanting to be in that fear thru they’re lives. bjp has found nothing else to offer indian voter.
sad thing is, attitudes on this page will be make sure that bjp lose again next election, 2014.
27. May 2009 - 3:12 PM
The only reason the Congress won is because andhon mein kanda raaja!
27. May 2009 - 4:36 PM
Rajiv Tyagi –
“2. No one but no one browbeats, abuses and shows down the security forces! The people of India are very nationalistic and respect the security forces.”
Who were the protesters against Batla House encounters? Pakistanis?
“3. You do not allow thugs to hold forth in public about cutting off people’s hands and necks and then be seen to be supportive of that stand! Grow up – you’re in 2009, not in Changez Khan’s time!”
That “thug” Varun Gandhi won by a margin of more than 2.5 lacs. Another “thug” who speaks the same language, Yogi Adityanath won in Gorakhpur by handsome margin. Now since all the Hindus, except the blog author and commentators, (correctly)see Hinduism as “… an inclusive way of life, which couldn’t care a damn about your god or my god or any one else’s – as long as I know my god listens to me, that’s all I need to lead a happy life.”, they could not have voted for these “thugs”. Who voted for them? My guess is that Muslims must have voted en masse to ensure their victory.
“4. You cannot be seen to represent the lunatic fringe who would kill priests, beat up women, applaud rabble rousers and their ilk.”
Another newbie “thug” Nalin Kumar Kateel defeated a Congress veteran Janardan Poojari in Dakshin Kannada. This must be the handiwork of those christians…
“Get your act together – no one wants a goonda in his back yard, no one. And as a legislator, not any longer!”
No wonder we have saintly figures like Azhagiri in our parliament
27. May 2009 - 4:48 PM
Rajiv Tyagi – I have a few observations. I hope you will consider these and respond.
But first let’s stop shadow boxing around the BJP being a Hindu party. It does not say it is and in my opinion you cannot prove it is one too. In temperament it is no different from the Congress on the ground.
1. You say your an atheist so I think you have no God who will listen to you. But my point is different; Hindu organizations have no theological/religious viewpoint that they would force down anybody’s throats. They would immediately agree with you that Hinduism is as inclusive as you say it is.
2. On the ATS, are you saying it cannot or should not be questioned? On what basis? How do you label someone a “Hindu” terrorist when you resist the Muslim terrorist label? (My assumption is that you resist such a label for Muslim killers). Please explain to me how the ATS conducts press conferences and gives interviews on the investigation and expects the same not to be discussed? As for the electorate being swayed by this issue, do let me know if the Antulay scandal swayed the electorate similarly in the reverse?
3. You seem as confused about Varun Gandhi’s speech. You also pretend not to know that cuttings and slittings are part and parcel of what Muslim killers have indulged in not just in C Khan’s times but in our times too. Why do you close your eyes to these facts? Btw, do you think all of Pilibhit’s Varun G voters are killers?
4. I hope your right about not wanting goondas. Kindly do a quick check on all of our legislators across parties and we can then discuss your data. While your at it, may I request you to please compare assets declared to the EC too. Let’s call them financial goondas. Look up Rahul G’s % increase since 2004.
5. I think you should not talk about foreign policy to the BJP. Many of the BJP’s policies of olde’ were implemented by the Congress only recently. It also sounds silly when you speak of real-politick and in the same breath make a fetish of going to the UN. I hope you understand that real-politick is all about protecting one’s own interests. We may discuss the Nuke deal at a later time if you so wish. Suffice to say that the BJP’s stance was not the same as the Communists in essence. Btw, are you saying the electorate took this into consideration before voting?
6. I don’t know if the BJP actually asked for votes by instilling fear in the minds of Hindus. They were not in a position to.
I can understand Pilibhit but what about the rest? Btw, are you aware of the realities in Pilibhit that made voters there vote in Varun G by a huge (2 lakh?) margin? The BJP or anybody else need not instill fear. All one needs to do is read the papers or be present at the wrong place at the wrong time. Hindus are quite aware of what the realities are.
Most reactions may seem irrational to you. I see more of anger at the BJP for surrendering it’s main Hindu agenda. However the points remain.
As an exercise I will suggest you get hold of the recent issue of The Week (A secular magazine) and go through the election campaign styles of Mohammed Selim (CPM) and Varun’s secular opponents in Pilibhit.
You must by now also be aware that there is a huge media managed campaign to prevent the BJP going back to it’s Hindu agenda. Please explain to me why this would be so if the BJP had a Hindu agenda already? Does it make sense to you?
It doesn’t to me.
Please be aware that I am not stone walling your arguments. I want to discuss them threadbare.
Will await your response.
27. May 2009 - 7:26 PM
Rajiv Tyagi,
What’s so great about being an atheist? Atheism is simply one of the many philosophical schools of Hinduism. Your position is not contrary to Hinduism–although you like to see it as something special.
27. May 2009 - 7:39 PM
“to quote an instance a night watchman near my house goes to the mass every sunday because they are promised a loaf of bread and if children tag along the amount is doubled. when such are the incentives why wouldnt a person with a meagre income choose that path? what has hinduism as a religion got to offer that person? i am not suggesting that there needs to be a central authority like the vatican to represent our religion and direct our path because that is a disaster in the making. we need a better and innovative solution.”
The church gives in the beginning to people who are hard up – this is bribing people into their version of Christianity (Catholic or Protestant). What most non-Christians do not know is that every single believer must give 10% of his/her income to his/her church. Lately the Vatican’s revenues from Asia have gone up, thanks to its early investments in Asia. There is nothing spiritual about Catholicism, and it has killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of Jesus.
“Things They Don’t Tell You
about Christianity”
http://freetruth.50webs.org/
27. May 2009 - 8:17 PM
All you guys who’ve responded to my comments – read your responses again and then turn back and read the writing on the wall… the electorate has roundly rejected your brand of sekoolarism! The rest of us are, of course, pseudo-secularists!
Come back from the edge guys! India’s wisdom is too old to play into your hands…
And Larissa, you commented on my Atheist Hinduism – you needn’t have, thank you – I already know who I am! And the last person I need to define my Hindu identity is someone who espouses the BJP brand of thuggery that goes by the name of Hindutva!
27. May 2009 - 8:38 PM
Vyom, Palahalli,
Yes let’s take up your issues…
You’re confusing the forest for the trees… to point out specific goondas who’ve gotten into Parliament this time around too, is to trivialize the issue at hand. We’re talking at a macro level, you want to reply at a micro level – we’re talking apples and oranges. I’m reading the writing on the wall for you…
Please see the bigger picture –
1. We don’t want fear to drive our lives – the BJP wants it! It has to change!
2. We don’t want rank opportunists – the ‘our terrorist’ ‘their terrorist’ kind – you will be punished roundly for it if you try that and/or pull down men in uniform! The man in uniform has been and will always be seen in a kinder light than the politician! Keep that uppermost in your mind! Its disgraceful to watch a nautanki player crawling in in the midst of combat to offer one crore to people who are yet to fall to the terrorist bullet! Don’t do it! Its in the poorest taste and you will not be forgiven!
3. Do not play opportunist games of yes, maybe, no-but with things that need to be condemned outright – you don’t beat up women, you don’t beat up lovers – you’ll be seen as Neanderthal fools if you do so, and roundly punished! Change this attitude! Its dangerous for your own families!
Let’s close this here… if you guys can read off the wall what I can, you might see it like I do… otherwise stew in your juices, friends… I’m off…
Rajiv Tyagi
27. May 2009 - 9:01 PM
@Rajiv Tyagi
Come back from the edge guys! India’s wisdom is too old to play into your hands…
OH? First of all BJP supporters do not condone thuggery. How have you come to this generalization? You have been watching too much NDTV. I am for whatever government that leads to a strong India–and it’s not going to be Congress with their sorry record for decades. I do not think BJP is a godsend–but clearly it’s a better alternative and is not a party servile to a political dynasty.
You can hardly call the manipulation of India’s masses of poor illiterate voters by Congress which tries to appear to be on their side emptying government coffers to give handout which do not reach them but reaches crooks and middlemen–you can hardly call Congress’ manipulation of voters by which it wins elections “India’s wisdom”. There is a name for this kind of fallacy in logical thinking. Congress is not on the side of the masses.
We all know Congress says all the PC stuff to manipulate the masses to appear as if they champion “the people” but those of us not brainwashed by NDTV and the english newspapers in India know better.
What is to be expected from Congress now? More spending of government money i.e. wasting it and not building any infrastructure, more affirmative action and the destruction of higher educational institutions destroy more institutions, and more of doing “nothing” as they are wont to do, so India can grow ever more overpopulated and poorer so that its future generations are deprived of a future. In economics overpopulation to the extent found in India correlates with a decline of human capital.
27. May 2009 - 10:28 PM
Thank you Rajiv Tyagi. I needn’t have expected anything better from an “open minded” liberal.
27. May 2009 - 10:30 PM
Palahalli,
Yes, very emphatically yes, the Hindutva brigade is deeply into Hindu thuggery of the most dangerous kind! They and their cohorts of many colours, will beat up women, Christians and lovers. They will threaten to kill and will use state power to kill and maim the ‘other’! They have absolutely nothing positive to offer to me, at least for the present, than to warn me of dire times if I don’t vote for them!
And I and pseudo secularists of my kind, have this to say to them “Go to Hell!”
Rajiv Tyagi
27. May 2009 - 10:44 PM
Rajiv Tyagi – For a person who denies hysteria, I’m surprised.
You say Hindu organizations instill fear? What are YOU doing my friend? Let alone anything good, you are asking us to close our eyes to dangers we ought to prepare against.
So quit with red herrings and calm down. We can still talk but only if you give up YOUR fear of the BJP and Hindu organizations. Keep and open mind like how you lecture us on.
Remember folks like you warned us about gas chambers and concentration camps in 1998? So cool it will you?
Please don’t get carried away like that other numbskull Tarun Tejpal who has just written an ode to Sonia Gandhi’s Christian belief disparaging Hindu Gods as morally fallible. Btw, you think Hindus should turn a blind eye to something like that? Or are you content to call such things “missing the BIG picture”?
Now, fellow commenters have posed some arguments that I think expose the fallacy in your understanding of the situation. Will you be able to respond? Calmly?
27. May 2009 - 11:05 PM
Why is there a ? near my username Sandeep?
27. May 2009 - 11:06 PM
Nevermind it disappeared.
28. May 2009 - 12:10 AM
Rajiv Tyagi,
For a moment even if I accept all that what you have said I am not able to apply your principle across the board. Some examples
1) The PM says that minorities have the first right to resources. Shouldn’t this enrage the people as everyone has equal right over the natural resources.
2) Mulayam Singh Yadav was very vocal against the Batla house encounters. He demanded judicial enquiry into this. Amar Singh announced financial rewards for the family of terrorists. But Mulayam won 23 seats in UP. Your assertion that “No one but no one browbeats, abuses and shows down the security forces! The people of India are very nationalistic and respect the security forces.” does not hold good here.
3) The Pradesh Congress chief of AP (Dinesh ??) said that he will cut the hands of anyone who raises a finger on minorities. Congress won 33 seats in AP. Again your assertion that “You do not allow thugs to hold forth in public about cutting off people’s hands and necks and then be seen to be supportive of that stand”
4) It is also surprising that people are anguished by Modi for coming to Mumbai and announcing the reqard to the brave soldiers. But people are not upset by the collosal failure of the government to prevent these incidents.
5) FYI… Rama Sena fought elections in 83 assembly seats in Karnataka. So it is as much a political adversary of BJP as congress.
Please help me as to how to apply your gospel of truths to above said incidents.
28. May 2009 - 2:12 AM
@Palahalli: If you really expect sekoolar people like Rajiv to respond “calmly” then you don’t know the first thing about sekoolarism. Or, may be you are not watching NDTV enough (good for you!) Their standard tactics is that if you get them in one lie, they just jump to another – like their role model Teesta. And, they do that very vocally. Or, use diversionary tactics like “Please see the bigger picture” …
So, now that someone has pointed out that Ram Sene fought **against** BJP and lost, I bet he’ll calmly avoid his previous argument regarding BJP that “you don’t beat up women, you don’t beat up lovers”. In fact, I’d not expect any intelligent sekoolar to show up here again.
28. May 2009 - 3:01 AM
The guy who calls himself Shuvro Aikath,
Dude, I know your real identity. I also know where you’re posting your comments from. Don’t force me to reveal it. If you have nothing healthy or constructive to comment except offer your half-assed concoctions about fear and hatred, this isn’t the place.
Get a life.
28. May 2009 - 4:06 AM
Most Indians are obnoxious.
This may sound oxymoron. I have a few friends/acquaintances who are Muslim haters, but they are pro-Congress and hate BJP.
On the other hand I have not seen a single BJP supporter who I know personally who hates muslims. (I am speaking from personal experience)
Congress seems to fit their idea of rulers. Congress is ruthless, shrewd, manipulative and extremely corrupt. Well take a guess, most Indians actually identify with it and are the same. They are more comfortable with that kind of a party. For them BJP is a nuisance, because it demands clean governance. It expects all of us to be sensitive to Nationalism in general. Most Indians are NOT and don’t want the headache of patriotism. Thats the hard fact.
It will take many years for a change in mind set. There will be many more 26/11s and many more attacks on Hindus before a threshold will reach.
BJP will always be relevant. If not in this form, some other form. This a very long battle. BJP has got a major set back alright. But then it was fighting with it’s back against the wall. Such all round hostility of the media, such immense money power on the other side. It still did remarkably well.
I have a feeling, BJP will bounce back with a vengeance not too far away from now.
28. May 2009 - 1:14 PM
Sandeep
Please reveal Shuvro’s identity. At least then he will not make any appearance here and we will be spared his rantings here. I have guessed it and have 2 names in mind. – well known in the media or blogosphere.
28. May 2009 - 1:37 PM
Hey!
Why’re you guys so hell bent upon ‘unmasking’ Shuvro Alkath? You want to send the goons after him/her? Don’t! You do this one too many times and your party and politics will be left to live only in blogs around Virtualspace!
Don’t say later no one warned you!
28. May 2009 - 3:23 PM
Rajiv Tyagi – Have you decided to respond yet? Or will you remain content playing virtual guerilla in a virtual war?
28. May 2009 - 9:05 PM
@Palahalli: What did I just say about sekoolarists?
28. May 2009 - 9:57 PM
Bhavananda – I’m a hopeless optimist
Check out Tarun (serf) Tejpal’s Open Letter I just posted on my website.
28. May 2009 - 11:52 PM
Palahalli
Do you seriously believe that Rajiv will indulge in a sensible discussion?
29. May 2009 - 1:16 AM
Nik – The thing is I have no way of knowing the fellow’s mind, except that he seems thoroughly alienated and thus not in a position to know what he’s either defending or willing to lose.
So I’m trying to find out what drives him.
29. May 2009 - 1:54 AM
After it became clear that Hillary Clinton had lost in the Primaries and Obama became the Democratic Candidate, I deserted them and joined the Republican camp supporting John McCain. I was bitter too when it became clear on voting day that Obama was going to be the next president. And then something happened that changed my views on him completely.
Obama during his victory speech said that he understood the republican supporters would feel dejected and let down, but now that he was President, he would work hard at winning them over too. He didn’t stoop to making cheap “In your face, losers” comments.
But I notice that these are exactly the kind of comments that the UPA and its supporters (including the “secular” media) are indulging in. Rubbing salt in wounds, gloating hysterically and making unsolicited “I told you so” smug remarks. I daresay many of these people might also have jumped ship, only recently deserting the NDA camp. Blogs supporting the BJP have graciously accepted the verdict and are behaving with dignity (exemplary response by Offstumped) while winners are acting sore!
Shuvro Aikath’s petty petty petty comments are only embarassing him and his ilk.
29. May 2009 - 2:00 AM
@Palahalli: Being hopelessly optimistic is truly a Hindu trait
We’ve taken over 800 yrs but yet we refuse to learn a few basic things. You know the rest better … …
PS – I saw the letter briefly. Frankly, I’m tired of these rants and the stench is too much for me to bear. So, why did you disable comments?
29. May 2009 - 2:04 AM
Rajiv Tyagi,
>>You want to send the goons after him/her?
Spoken like a true goon!
If you find this blog offensive, I have a simple solution: stop reading it. I’ll have one less headache to deal with.
29. May 2009 - 4:00 AM
…. in a truly secular democracy there needs to be absolute separation of religion and state , but till then it must be possible for all religions to “equally interfere and partake ” of the political process , but in our society today hindus are not allowed to do exactly wht other communities do , in the name of communalism , by the media and so many other vested & relgious interests … this is one continuing evil we are gonna contend with till remedial measures like the uniform civil code can be achieved …
the bjp of today has totally lost its purpose ,
it is meant to be a political voice for the fair rights and fruits of the hindu community while still engaging other communities both in terms of wht they do right and wrong ,
instead , bjp either keeps barking like a dog or becomes sycophantic to please other communites to the extent that the injustice committed goes under the carpet …
it is the job of the bjp to firmly place the voice and rights of the hindus in the political sphere while also engaging other communities …
while being able to welcome their support when offered voluntarily , the bjp must be able to take on anyone who intends hurt to the democracy , even while staying focussed on the needs of the hindu community ,
the bjp will never be seen as truly friendly by the church or the mullahs , so stop trying to please them , instead engage them …
29. May 2009 - 8:45 AM
Palahalli
I admire your patience and after seeing your website and your comments here, you have written many interesting points.
However the problem is the attitude of the likes of Rajiv Tyagi – who are behaving exactly how CC has described them. The real way to take people along is the Obama way the gracious speeches made by them. Is there any possiblity this will happen? I do not think so. See the attitude of even people like dcubed and you know what I mean.
Hence a lot of interesting discussion but most of it being wasted on such people.
Swapan Dasgupta has generated an interesting discussion on his blog. Seriously suggest all well wishers go there and participate. The response has been overwhelming.
http://www.swapan55.com
29. May 2009 - 8:56 AM
Bhavananda – I still carry comments but under a different style. The promise is that nothing will be censored. Write me on my email id. palahalli.s@gmail.com
**Sandeep, my apologies for using SS space to discuss my website..but I assure you it’s Bhavananda’s fault!
Nik – Thanks and I will read up on Swapan Dasgupta’s writings.
29. May 2009 - 3:55 PM
It is interesting to note that Comrade Shuvro Aikath is still impersonating the barbarindians blogger. Give it to commies to have such a thick skin.
But please do not drive the good comrade away. If anyone can give us a good analysis on why commies received a such kick in the groin in the recent elections, it is only Comrade Shuvro. You wouldn’t believe this: there _are_ clowns who claimed that the killings in Nandigram do not “discredit” the killers. Comrade has access to inner commie circles. Well, he might even know Sleazepal, who knows. So he should be able to tell whether commie leaders feel discredited or not.
29. May 2009 - 4:06 PM
Expanding further on the subject of Comrade Shuvro As Is Known Aikath to Himself (a subject dear to my heart because I love all things recursive including LISP): I vaguely recall I had a discussion with this chap (or one of his peudonyms) a few weeks ago. The chap claimed that a) BJP staged the pub attacks in Managalore and b) therefore all pink-pantiers in Karnataka will vote BJP out (and hopefully vote commies). (Funny chap, no?). Comrade pinned hopes especially on Mangalore, where he predicted that Catholic Christians will vote Hindus out. Interestingly, it is pink-pantiers in UP, where there are few pubs, that voted BJP out, while pub-goers in Kolkata by and large put Shuvro & pals under the water pump so they get rid of their power hangover and catholics of Mangalore voted BJP in. Or so I think, but nobody knows the inside dope on commie stuff as much as Shuvro does, so let’s wait for his analysis.
But don’t confuse him with Barbar Indians or Apache Indians or D’Souza or Briganza. He’s just Aikath.
29. May 2009 - 4:16 PM
>>You do this one too many times and your party and politics will be left to live only in blogs around Virtualspace!
Hear hear. Heed to Rajiv Tyagi, even if you must discredit that Aikath fellow because he impersonates people. Tyagi is speaking from experience. Why do you think the commie nutjobs that justified the killings in Nandgram claiming that they don’t discredit the Left are silent on the subject of the imminent demise of CPIM? Experience!
Ergo, don’t send goons after Aikath. Be friendly to him and have a chat with him in a mangalore pub.
29. May 2009 - 6:04 PM
Ot,
>>> there _are_ clowns who claimed that the killings in Nandigram do not “discredit” the killers….
Do you expect anything better from commies?
Don’t you know that nowadays commies are working with Pakis???
They are busy with sending trained comrades from Kerala to Kashmir.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Madanis-terror-links-are-being-probed-says-VS/articleshow/4315604.cms
29. May 2009 - 7:30 PM
OT:
Long time! Welcome back
29. May 2009 - 10:39 PM
Bhavananda,
Pseudo-secularists like me have lots of useful work to do, unlike sekoolarists who’ll spend their life with their silly calculators, working out when they’ll be able to take over the secular space! You can, actually! Only you’ll have to cure your rabid ‘other’-phobia… Keep up the good work guys… When one generation of your rabid guys retires you and your friends will be taking over… Good luck to you… Keep your calculators oiled, guys – you’ll need them for many decades still…
And now if you gentlemen of the extreme right will excuse me, I have useful work to do… This will be my last post here… Unless, of course, you ask me for the way out!
Bye!
29. May 2009 - 10:49 PM
@Palahalli: What did I say on your attempt to find “honest answers” from Rajiv Tyagi? He spoke a lot of things like sekoolarism, pseudo-secularism, and oil and ‘other’-phobia … everything except your question.
29. May 2009 - 11:22 PM
>>Pseudo-secularists like me have lots of useful work to do
Like no doubt reading extreme right-wing blogs.
The best way to identify a clown is to look for the guy who comes to your blog and posts a comment claiming that he has better things to do than read your blog.
>>This will be my last post here… Unless, of course, you ask me for the way out!
The extreme right doesn’t want you to leave, Comrade Tyagi, please listen! Even the extreme right deserves some comic relief, you know.
30. May 2009 - 4:08 AM
“Pseudo-secularists like me have lots of useful work to do, unlike sekoolarists who’ll spend their life with their silly calculators, working out when they’ll be able to take over the secular space! You can, actually! Only you’ll have to cure your rabid ‘other’-phobia… Keep up the good work guys… When one generation of your rabid guys retires you and your friends will be taking over… Good luck to you… Keep your calculators oiled, guys – you’ll need them for many decades still…
And now if you gentlemen of the extreme right will excuse me, I have useful work to do… This will be my last post here… Unless, of course, you ask me for the way out!
Bye!”
Actually the “extreme right” tend to have more important work to do than pseudo-secularists. What “useful” work do pseudosecularists do – sing “raghupati rhavag raja raam”?
As far as taking over the secular space, don’t worry, that will come, but it will come last, as it is an arena governed by external means and aim, such as tv and journalism. I mean really, it could be taken over now but there is much more important work for the “extreme right” to do.