Fed with the biased crap churned out by colonial/Leftist historians and Marxist ideologues, Mallika has turned on her own culture & country a la Arundhati Roy. No wonder they both are getting sidelined to the extreme-left fringes of today’s socio-political discourse.

There is an Australian aboriginal saying that Mallika may do well to internalize: Those who lose their history, lose their soul.

That perception, whatever its validity, does not justify the conclusion that “olde’ society” in india considered women less capable, implied in the statement “I think the olde’ society was correct in restricting this precious and important right.”

>>>”The answer is to recognize that women are ill suited to handle such assignments. ”

Is there sufficient reason to conclude so, apart from the apparent influence of insecure misogynistic western thought that constantly seek to shore up faltering self-esteem by derogating the ‘other’ ( counterpart of this behaviour is seen in the insecure western feminist tendency to demonize males as aggressive insensitive brutes) ?

>>>“I don’t understand the “equal” part of it. ”

“equal capability for wisdom as well as for idiocy.”

Meaning being that for a Karunanithi, there is a Jayalalithaaaaaaaa. For a Mulayam there is a Mayawati. For a Nitish Kumar, there is a Sheila Dixit. For a Mangal Pandey, there is a Laxmibai. For Sri Rama there is Sita devi. For a Ravana there is Surpanakha.

Now, don’t start on how Jayalalithaaaa is far worse than Karunanithi, or how Mayawati is more corrupt than Mulayam.
Examples are for illustrative purposes.

Is Shiva bhagavan anyway less when worshipped in ardhanareeshwara form ?

Isn’t Saraswati devi worshipped more than Brahma deva.

Isn’t Durga devi revered as much as, in some places even more than, Vishnu bhagavan ?

Did the realized rishi say- “aham brahmasmi minus the feminine part” ?

>>>“We must recognize what is real. ”

Recognizing fact is the statement- “Yep. no chance for any revolution that has selfish motive as its base to be any way humane“.

_>>“Not wish for the unreal.”

Is there any ‘wish’ at all in that statement ?

>>>“The Industrial Revolution occured and along with it’s bad came immense good. ”

immense good ?

increase in material acquisitions is all that has happened

The cost has been objectification of human being. De-humanisation. Turning people into objects. A commodity that can be traded with. As seen in advertisements.
Apart from that cost to humanity, cost to Nature has been incalculable.

The so-called ‘industrial revolution’ was wrought by the misappropriation of Indian small scale technology and employing it in large scale in Britain using people as robots. It’s root cause was unbridled greed for material acquisition, instigated by the self-aggrandizing drive that characterises western mindset.

This mindset now tries to justify that monsterous drive as ‘inevitable harbringer of modernity’. The same mindset caused the brutal genocide of Native Americans, Africans, Native Australians, Asians and Gypsy population of Europe and now tries to justify it as ‘civilizing’.

Indians call the ‘gullibility that falls for such blatant duplicity’ as the effect of maya.

dhanyavaad

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/5000/music

So based on that explanation, if you are a devout follower of your faith, you are committing a sin by listening to and finding “spiritual transformation” in so-called “Kaphir”’s song, are not you? What sort of transformation did your spirit go through any way? That Arabic manual of cultural imperialism does not talk of any spiritual transformation through music.

You know why was there a mention of “Gargi, Maitryei” etc? Because they were part of OUR dharma, OUR history and OUR culture, a cultural tradition that was destroyed by an onslaught of primitive and tribal intruders taking advantage of internal power struggles. This intrusion and related social catastrophes (conversion, kidnapping of women etc) are the direct result of women becoming more dependent on men’s power. We, Hindus, the ones who know what it means to be a Hindu, has always respected women (think of Shivaji and then compare him to Alauddin Khilji). The role of women, falling from social high places during the holocaust never stopped after that. The bad indigestion of western feminism did not help at all. Every time status of women in Indian society is talked about, the contradiction between past and present is too high to ignore. The explanation of the fall lies in the imported Arabic culture, that is why Arab world is brought in to make the comparison easier. Never mind, it is easy to see where the odor of the burning comes from.

This is obvious but I was referring to the modern Hindu movement. I should have been more clear.

Olde’ society – Before Universal Franchise. Hindusthan did not see it so formally but traditionally, it has been the men in politics to an overwhelming extent.

***Women, like men, have demonstrated equal capability for wisdom as well as for idiocy.

Rather than thinking of imposing restrictions, more prudent may be to increase the avenues for developing wisdom in society across the board.***

I don’t understand the “equal” part of it. Why is that there? In fact I believe that women in positions of power tend toward greater ruthlessness than men only because they feel they are constantly under a male seige. Just as true in the corp world. The answer is not more articifial “empowerment” which places them in conflicts. The answer is to recognize that women are ill suited to handle such assignments.

The latter part of your response indicates bolting the stable after the horse has fled.

***Yep. no chance for any revolution that has selfish motive as its base to be any way humane.***

We must recognize what is real. Not wish for the unreal. The Industrial Revolution occured and along with it’s bad came immense good. No way could anybody have stopped it short of stopping one’s breath.

A question.
If Mallika Sarabhai had shown 54-year old Muhammad fornicating with his 9-year old wife Ayesha, do you think your spiritual experience would have equalled the one you are having now after listening to ‘hindustani’ music.

This relates to the way tools are kept for puja in Bharat during vijaya dashami

Palahalli- ” I tend to agree with the commenter who said Hindus had neglected art as a medium to propagate their views. ”

Dr Vilayanur Ramachandran’s video linked in previous comment provides a glimpse to the extensive way in which art has been used in bharatiya samskriti to disseminate thought, particularly the spiritual experience.

>>“I’m not so sure if women should have been given the right to vote…….I think the olde’ society was correct in restricting this precious and important right. ”

Which olde’ society ?

Women, like men, have demonstrated equal capability for wisdom as well as for idiocy.

Rather than thinking of imposing restrictions, more prudent may be to increase the avenues for developing wisdom in society across the board.

>>>”“Demonization of the Industrial Revolution” – …………..I don’t see how this phase could have seen a more humane passage than it did.”

Yep. no chance for any revolution that has selfish motive as its base to be any way humane.

Ot->>>“We see eye to eye on Sandeep’s claim about art’s purpose merely being entertainment. ”

Many people consider life’s purpose to be entertainment. Many others consider life’s purpose to be aggrandizement- expansion of a limited concept of self in a material way.
Many others consider life’s purpose to be the knowing of oneself.
For some others, life’s purpose is exaltation of some entity or a value or principle.

As per these diverse motivations, art is created, and understood, like life itself.

namaste

Music is a catalyst for spiritual experience. But, in itself does not provide spiritual transformation. the receiver has to help himself to undergo transformation. Though i am with you on good experiences music brings to an individual, i can bet my last rupee that sarabhai’s act was self-indulgent and it would not have done obsoultely anything to my spiritual growth. When an act is put on to push someone agenda, rather that expressing art for art itself, it becomes political. It may repulse some people that view art for art’s sake. But that does not mean it woudl repulse everyone. The support group behind the self-indulgent show would be pleased by it and they have the right to do be pleased. People that feel repulsive also have a right to do so.

Nowhere have i said a “true Muslim” is not supposed to hear anything other than Sufi music. Dont put words into my mouth. I only wanted to know if it fits your definition of Art since you found the Ramlila too dumb to qualify. And dont feign victimhood if i bring up Sufi music or Saudi Arabia. It is you who is getting sentimental here. Not me as you allege later on.

Also, You can do whatever you want with your Kishori Amonkar stuff. That is not my botheration. But try to define “spiritual transformation” instead of telling me to go and listen to some track. Personal experiences are not things that serve as proof in an objective debate.

And you are unrivalled in your own logical fallacies. In your first comment, you say “Cow is also considered worship-worthy in Hinduism, but not equal”. To which I replied “please let me know how we can make a cow equal to a man/woman ?” And now you come back with this fantabulous line – “To be specific, I can worship anything I wish, but granting cows voting rights would be ridiculous”. Where have i asked for providing cows with voting rights? Do you even read comments properly? You are also yet to answer the folowing questions –
“Dont you think worship is a level higher than considering equal? Dont you think worship implicitly means equal? In any event, what is to be made for a woman to be an equal to a man according to you? And where can it be seen? And also, please let me know how we can make a cow equal to a man/woman ?”

Coming to woman suffrage, you miss my point entirely. I must say it was a “poor try”. Dont you see Western democracies denying voting rights to sections of its population included the women in those groups too? I had specifically mentioned this. Again, you dont read before commenting.

And the Arab world doesnt “come in somehow”. And I am not surprised or amused when you say “Why I should think of Arab world and compare India with Arab world is not known to me”. The abyss in human rights violation and woman rights violation is the Arab world. So, when you compare cultures, it is imperative to show up what exists around the world. Between, you are yet to answer this question too – “From Draupadi, Gargi, Maitreyi, etc to Meera, Akkamahadevi, to Amritanandamayi, India has consistently been producing these. Can the West/Arab world show such a continuous link? Show me if you can.”

Also, I dont contest this statement of yours – “What I see around me is suffice to conclude that those who talk of woman being worship-worthy and equal are far away from ground reality and living in fools paradise”. It might indeed be the case around “you”. I in fact beleive it “is” the case around “you”.

It is a whole lot different around “us” though. And it has been for centuries.