56 comments

1. Kedar
   15. February 2010 - 4:04 AM

   Nice way of blowing up the fancy, intellectual, post-modern, yet utter nonsense about al-militaria-jihadia-complexia.

   Without a recourse to dharma, I dont see how we can make it to a better future.

2. larissa
   15. February 2010 - 5:48 AM

   Shah Khan is the most irritating and unattractive actor ever! I get irritated at the sight of this man, if he were a good actor that would make up for that, but I cannot bear to watch this man. Bollywood is just the worst–represents India at its worst–bania run good for nothing industry…

3. Sunny
   15. February 2010 - 6:39 AM

   “Pakistan is a good neighbor” – ShahRukh Khan
   Then the word ‘bad’ has no meaning and could be removed from the dictionary.

   iam boycotting all of his movies from now on.

   He not only needs to apologize to Indians, but to American airport security as well. he is an extremely self-centered man.

4. Prudent Indian
   15. February 2010 - 12:22 PM

   “You cannot separate Islamic terror from its teachings. ”
   Absolutely true. Any one who has read Quran, Hadith would simply deduce the only thing which you have pointed out. I have read both and trust me I am bewildered just how can ANY man with common sense and passable intelligence- follow This Man called Mohamed and his Created Allah!

   Quran is Mohamed’s. hallucinations nothing more. If ever we have to really find the root cause of terror, we need not spend billions on Intelligence. Just spend some 100 Rs and buy these books here in it lies the cause.

   I agree with you Sandeep, that no matter what we do – even if we give them Kashmir or Jews themselves commit mass suicide or Israeli becomes Palestine – these followers of Mohamed would not just be satisfied.

   Last but not least: ever wonder why do Mohammedans (since they follow Mohamed) use PBUH (ostensible it means Peace Be Upon Him)! Why if Allah is a God then we need to bestow peace Upon Him? Reason is very simple to understand only if we really want to.

   PI.

5. anonymous
   15. February 2010 - 12:39 PM

   Please do not shorten urls of the links you use in the blog.

6. Sunjay
   15. February 2010 - 12:40 PM

   There is no point in blaming Pakistan, it might well be executed by local elements, and even if ISI in involved it is impossible to execute such operations without local support. Our Diggy raja goes to Azamgarh and calls batla house encounter fake, the most upsetting part is not what he said but because he knows that by saying it he can only hope to gain “minority” vote without loosing any majority vote.

   I know it sounds bad but I think we deserve it; people with mentality like us deserve it. After hundreds of years of oppression and foreign rule if we are yet to “grow a spine”, we can safely assume we will never be able to grow it.

7. Sandeep
   15. February 2010 - 3:23 PM

   Anonymous,

   What problem do you have with shortened links as long as they open correctly?

8. anonymous
   15. February 2010 - 4:21 PM

   Bcos, some of the links I would have already read like the open letter to SRK in this post. If it is not shortened, when I hover over it, I can figure out as to this is a blog post which I have already read. If you shorten the links, there is no way for me to figure out whether I have already read the post or not other than clicking on it. Btw, what benefit do you get out of shortening URLs?

9. larissa
   15. February 2010 - 7:20 PM

   Regarding the whole phenomenon of hollywood, and industries like bollywood that try to imitate one intelligent writer put it well

   “”? must emphasize above all that the direction ?? the processes at
   work is toward a freeing of sex, but ?? ?? way a freeing from sex.3 Sex
   and women are instead becoming dominant forces ?? present society,
   an evident fact that is also part ?? the general phenomenology ?? every
   terminal phase ?? a civilization’s cycle. One might speak ?? a chronic
   sexual intoxication that is profusely manifested ?? public life, conduct,
   and art. Its counterpart is a gynocratic tendency, a sexually oriented
   preeminence ?? the woman that relates to the materialistic and practical
   involvement ?? the masculine sex: a phenomenon that is clearest ??
   those countries, like the United States, where that involvement is more
   excesslve.
   Since ? have dealt with it ?? other occasions,4 ? shall not dwell ??
   this subject here, limiting myself to the collective and, ?? a certain way,
   abstract character ?? eroticism and the fascination centered ?? the latest
   female idols, ?? an atmosphere fed by countless means: cinema, magazines,
   television, musicals, beauty contests, and so ??. Here the real
   persona ?? the woman is often a quasi-soulless prop, center ?? crystallization
   ?? that atmosphere ?? diffuse and chronic sexuality, so that the
   majority ?? “stars” with their fascinating features have as persons quite
   poor sexual qualities, their existential basis being close to that ?? common,
   misguided, and rather neurotic girls. ?? describe them someone
   has aptly used the image ?? jellyfish ~ith magnificent iridescent colors
   that are reduced to a gelatinous mass and evaporate ?? brought out ??
   the water into sunlight-the water corresponding to the atmosphere ??
   diffuse and collective sexuality.”"

10. larissa
    15. February 2010 - 7:52 PM

    As regards the pheomenon of Hollywood (which industries like bollywood seek to imitate) one writer put it well on the facination with “made up” stars :
    From Ride the tiger, a survival manual for the aristocrats of the soul”.

    “”We hear of a “sexual revolution” supposed to remove both inner inhibitions and repressive sexual taboos. In fact, in today’s world “sexual freedom” is being affirmed ever more, as a current practice. But we have to consider this in more detail….
    I must emphasize above all that the direction if the processes at
    work is toward a freeing of sex, but in no way a freeing from sex. Sex
    and women are instead becoming dominant forces in present society,
    an evident fact that is also part of the general phenomenology of every
    terminal phase of a civilization’s cycle. One might speak of a chronic
    sexual intoxication that is profusely manifested in public life, conduct,
    and art. Its counterpart is a gynocratic tendency, a sexually oriented
    preeminence of the the woman that relates to the materialistic and practical
    involvement of the masculine sex: a phenomenon that is clearest in
    those countries, like the United States, where that involvement is more
    excesslve.
    Since I have dealt with it on other occasions, I shall not dwell on
    this subject here, limiting myself to the collective and, an in a certain way,
    abstract character of eroticism and the fascination centered on the latest
    female idols, in an atmosphere fed by countless means: cinema, magazines,
    television, musicals, beauty contests, and so. Here the real
    persona of the woman is often a quasi-soulless prop, center of crystallization
    of that atmosphere of diffuse and chronic sexuality, so that the
    majority of “stars” with their fascinating features have as persons quite
    poor sexual qualities, their existential basis being close to that of common,
    misguided, and rather neurotic girls. To describe them someone
    has aptly used the image of jellyfish with magnificent iridescent colors
    that are reduced to a gelatinous mass and evaporate if brought out of
    the water into sunlight-the water corresponding to the atmosphere of
    diffuse and collective sexuality…””

11. larissa
    15. February 2010 - 8:00 PM

    As regards the pheomenon of Hollywood (which industries like bollywood seek to imitate) one writer put it well on the facination with “made up” stars :
    From Ride the tiger, a survival manual for the aristocrats of the soul.

    ….”We hear of a “sexual revolution” supposed to remove both inner inhibitions and repressive sexual taboos. In fact, in today’s world “sexual freedom” is being affirmed ever more, as a current practice. But we have to consider this in more detail….
    I must emphasize above all that the direction if the processes at
    work is toward a freeing of sex, but in no way a freeing from sex. Sex
    and women are instead becoming dominant forces in present society,
    an evident fact that is also part of the general phenomenology of every
    terminal phase of a civilization’s cycle. One might speak of a chronic
    sexual intoxication that is profusely manifested in public life, conduct,
    and art. Its counterpart is a gynocratic tendency, a sexually oriented
    preeminence of the the woman that relates to the materialistic and practical
    involvement of the masculine sex: a phenomenon that is clearest in
    those countries, like the United States, where that involvement is more
    excesslve.
    Since I have dealt with it on other occasions, I shall not dwell on
    this subject here, limiting myself to the collective and, an in a certain way,
    abstract character of eroticism and the fascination centered on the latest
    female idols, in an atmosphere fed by countless means: cinema, magazines,
    television, musicals, beauty contests, and so. Here the real
    persona of the woman is often a quasi-soulless prop, center of crystallization
    of that atmosphere of diffuse and chronic sexuality, so that the
    majority of “stars” with their fascinating features have as persons quite
    poor sexual qualities, their existential basis being close to that of common,
    misguided, and rather neurotic girls. To describe them someone
    has aptly used the image of jellyfish with magnificent iridescent colors
    that are reduced to a gelatinous mass and evaporate if brought out of
    the water into sunlight-the water corresponding to the atmosphere of
    diffuse and collective sexuality…

12. Sandeep
    15. February 2010 - 8:54 PM

    Anonymous,
    All my links open in a new window. How long does it take for you to close a window, if you’ve already read it?
    >>Btw, what benefit do you get out of shortening URLs?
    Convenience.

13. anonymous
    15. February 2010 - 11:04 PM

    Well, it is an inconvenience bcos I keep at least 20 tabs(in firefox) open . Anyways, not a big deal.

14. sarathy.amudhan
    15. February 2010 - 11:21 PM

    We have to just follow the Israelis, who respond to every attack against Israeli citizens aggressively, sending out a loud and clear message that retaliation for any aggression will be swift, overwhelming and precise. What sort of message are we sending – one that of a nation incapable of taking decisive action. Time to throw out the Govt led by inept self serving nincompoops.

15. Sid
    16. February 2010 - 1:04 AM

    “..I think we deserve it;” – Yes, people get the government they deserve. About growing spine, I am convinced that until we are reduced the number of Jews living in Israel, we would continue to prefer liberal BS to growing a spine and actually do something for self preservation.
    PC said that it was not an intelligence failure. I agree. Non existent entities can not fail. But, as one of my friends pointed out, he probably was talking about his Harvard trained intelligence.

16. larissa
    16. February 2010 - 1:46 AM

    Well is it not obvious that external interests control India? I mean where do you think all the money is coming from to support Naxals and Islamists? The english print media is not even readable–the Times of India is at the level of the National Enquirer in America.
    I was shocked to read that militants pushed into Pakistanin Kashmir are going to be allowed to return by the government but Hindus are not allowed to return to their own homes! India has been ruled far too long by a family of college drop outs who are considered “aristocracy”. Only in India. I mean look at it–if you were a mother and you son was sent abroad and instead of finishing college, he drops out and gets married to a working class girl who also did not finish college, would you not be horrified? Not so in India. The country rewards the son by making him a political leader and the wife as well, to continue on the leagacy of the mother, also a college dropout. Education extends beyond a college degree, but I am saying that these people do not bring anything new to the table for the country. Moreover, these people are considered aristocracy. It just baffles me, the mentality. What kind aristocracy is that I argued with an Indian I met at a party recently. How is this better than being ruled by kings?
    Yes Hindus deserve it, they do not stand up for themselves. They cannot expect others to stand up for them.

17. larissa
    16. February 2010 - 2:12 AM

    I would like to add that I am not belittling anyone from working class backgrounds. Many great people such as Abraham Lincoln came from humble backgrounds. When someone come from a humble background, educates themselves they become worthy of respect and set a standard for others to imitate. But when someone from this kind of background becomes the leader of a nation by virtue of having been a housewife and never held a real job or any position of responsibility, then the people of that country certainly are beyond redemption. That leader is not to blame but the spineless men who follow such a leader.
    Kingship in India simply has been replaced by family rule.

18. larissa
    16. February 2010 - 2:18 AM

    I would like to add that I am not belittling anyone from working class backgrounds. Many great people such as Abraham Lincoln came from humble backgrounds. When someone comes from a humble background, educates himself, he becomes worthy of respect and sets a standard for others to imitate. But when someone from this kind of background becomes the leader of a nation by virtue of having been a housewife, never held a real job or any position of responsibility involving real education, nor brings any new ideas to the table, then the people of that country certainly are beyond redemption. That leader is not to blame but the spineless men who follow such a leader.
    Kingship in India simply has been replaced by family rule.

19. Rajiv Chandran
    16. February 2010 - 5:20 AM

    No point reviling Kingship. Traditionally Kingship and monarchy in India (at least Hindu India) was never autocratic – rather it was the result of the consensus between dominant political and social groups. True autocracy too can be traced to Muslim ingress India – with the invaders and later convert kings not being bound by traditional norms and requirements of kingship. A look at even late non-muslim rulers – the sikhs, the marathas, the jats, kings of nepal etc reveal not strictly hereditary and autocratic but federal kingship and rulers. Evidence from recent past suggests that traditional kingship was more effective in ensuring welfare of people. For example people were better off, had lesser famines and a better quality of life in those parts of India which were not under direct british rule – but were ruled instead by traditional rulers.
    Anglocentric, british educated inferiority complex ridden rulers of Independent India have done all they can to malign, besmirch and undermine all traditional social institutions. The traditional rulers – kings, the traditional social structure – jati, kingdoms etc have been the early casualties. We have tried to replace these traditional institutions with imported parody of british style democracy, language based states, etc. However it is worth noting that independent India has never really built any institutions while actively undermining and destroying the existing traditional ones. No wonder we have weeds like the dynasty flourishing in this denuded and barren political-intellectual space.

20. larissa
    16. February 2010 - 6:14 AM

    I agree with you and am not reviling Kingship. I suppose we have something resembling something of a tyranny in the name of democracy. Yes of course, the King was King due to a traditional heirarchy and legitimacy that was developed over centuries-and Kingship as been replaced with something that has left a vacuum, and as you say, is destroying the vital traditional structures without creating anything to fill the void. The result is rapid dissolution at at levels–.
    India could have benefited from a kind of Meijii type restoration from above that enabled Japan to modernize without losing its culture.
    The question is, how might Hindus go about preserving that which is still worth preserving?

21. larissa
    16. February 2010 - 6:17 AM

    I agree with you and am not reviling Kingship. I suppose we have something resembling a tyranny in the name of democracy. Yes of course, the King was King due to a traditional heirarchy and legitimacy that was developed over centuries-and Kingship has been replaced with something that has left a vacuum, and as you say, is destroying the vital traditional structures without creating anything to fill the void. The result is rapid dissolution at all levels–—.
    India could have benefited from a kind of Meijii type restoration from above that enabled Japan to modernize without losing its culture.
    The question is, how might Hindus go about preserving that which is still worth preserving?

22. larissa
    16. February 2010 - 6:48 AM

    sorry for the typos–I have to learn the habit of reading before submitting….

23. Rajiv Chandran
    16. February 2010 - 9:29 AM

    “The question is, how might Hindus go about preserving that which is still worth preserving?”

    That is good question which is a rather difficult to answer. Hindus have been searching for answers to this for a good part of the last century at least. The answers have slowly started becoming apparent only in the last decade or so. It is now better known that the political and social frameworks in which we operate and the contexts in which we define our thought processes are alien and compromised. Our best chances are lie in disassembling, disowning and dismembering this framework. However that requires intellectual, social and political mobilization.

    Hindu political mobilization was successful in placing a party ostensibly voicing Hindu grievances – in power. However the experiment was less than successful because that party operated (and continues to operate) within parameters of the same compromised framework and thought processes. From this it is evident that successful political mobilization would entail Hindu political parties adopting a commitment and a definite plan to transcend and if possible undermine the mentioned framework. This calls for a more cerebral – and less shrill – approach to problems. It requires Hindu political parties to change to reflect the Hindu political ethos.

    Social mobilization would require that people become aware of how their heritage is being appropriated and replaced by alien constructs, cultivate a sense of ownership towards that heritage and its symbols. It would require us to rejuvenate traditions, social, political and religious institutions. A necessary precondition for this is knowledge (of our heritage, about its enemies, and how to combat it) to become available to the general public and opinion-makers alike. Encouragement and assistance is required from political parties, individuals and institutions in this regard.

    But of course that seems to lead us to a chicken and egg situation where political mobilization is necessary to bring about social changes, and only a social change can trigger a political mobilization. That brings us to intellectual mobilization. I think thanks to modern technology and globalization – there is a slow but gathering awareness among the Hindus about what is happening to them. I think Hindu intellectuals need to articulate this better and make it understandable and accessible to a wider audience of young Indians. That will hopefully bring about social and political mobilization that we all seek.

    “..I think we deserve it”

    No we don not deserve this. I think this is not a time to lose hope. I know that governments and administrative institutions are heavily compromised – however losing hope is really not an option. Instead let us hope we can bring about a positive change and work to bring it about – for the sake of all those who suffered in Pune, and everyone before them, and for our nameless ancestors who gave up thier lives and everything else to preserve for posterity what we now consider ours – our way of life.

24. sunjay
    16. February 2010 - 12:26 PM

    The problem is with our mentality, there is something seriously wrong with the way we think and that needs to change. We are so unassertive; our nature is so submissive that it borders on masochism, something which goes by the name of Gandhigiri in our country, but for the rest of the word it is simply being effeminate. Make no mistake others view us as such, and in my opinion the real reason of this kind of bombing is psychological, they having sadistic tendencies will keep on doing such things once in a while simply to put us in our place, the more they bomb us the more apologetic we will become, more reservations, more appeasement and more bombing, a classic bully victim relationship, which Gandhi himself mentioned.

25. Rajiv Chandran
    16. February 2010 - 12:56 PM

    It just occured to me that a sustained and long term mass participation of people is necessary to preserve the indic ethos. However the last time such a participation took place was arguably during the freedom struggle under the aegis of Gandhi. Perhaps in its long history rulership never really intervened as thought police or acted as a defining element in the cultural process, which explains the vulnerability of Indians to the use of the machinery of governance and law by seculars and thier co-travellers. On the other hand it is worth noting that throughout history all abrahmic and neo-abrahmic secular reglions have used the mechanisms of state as a means to propagate themselves and more importantly supress and annihilate others. This is very much evident in the case of Islam, Christianity, Marxism, Socialism, Secularism etc. Therefore the need and case for Hindus to use State to articulate thier views, and protect thier interests.

    Before that happens one has to contend of course with the cultural transformation of the masses. Today every means of social and political mobility, choice, information etc is controlled by gatekeepers of the west embedded in our lives as modernists, moderates, seculars etc. Advani did mobilize a lot of Hindus for the cause but unfortunately could not sustain it over a long period of time. Furthermore BJPs approaches to governance, control and social discourse started attaining the same uncomfortable contours as Nehru-Gandhis. I think BJP ruled states have to provide an example – and a break from the post independence borrowed model of governance ; they need to empower people, encourage intellectual debate, work on restoration of traditions, enable civilizational healing. Unfortunately much of this has not been forthcoming from them. To undermine a framework of governance set up to primarily to undermine our civilization framework is not adharmic. There must be no apologism over recasting the state to reflect Hindu institutions and civilization ethos.

    Finally why have the current government and it’s predecessors not taken decisive action to extirpate terrorism. The issue here is primarily about a sense of civilizational belonging and ownership. The current government, rulership et al do not identify with Indian civilizational ethos rather they identify with the west . Hence the willingness to allow states like China to take over Tibet and expunge the indic-influenced culture there. Hence its willingness to tolerate pakistan – a western/islamic proxy extremely detrimental to its interests inside the ancestral indian geography. Hence Indian state’s willingness to take harm from all shades of inimical opinion anywhere and its loathing to take action, be constantly apologetic etc. This just goes on to demonstrate just how important a sense of civilizational belonging and sacred geography is. These are foundations of of the idea of a nation state – without these a state is an emasculated idea – which is probably the case with current India.

26. mindsense
    16. February 2010 - 1:09 PM

    good article sundeep,
    and larissa(looks like you been blogging all night!!) adds on important points. well as far as building upa spine to stand up for the real issues,well you become a fanatic, mega communal beast.if any one saw this debate yestrday on NDTV with mir of dawn(if im not wrong)when asked a question about terrorist meet in muzzafrabad in pakistan,he defended his talks saying” hardliners are on both sides we have Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM), Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Jamat-ud-Dawa (JuD) and other 12 alliance groups you have shivsena, bajrangdal etc” nidi razdan had no problems with that comparision.now with any indian worth his salt would have revolted against this pathetic logic and comparision.but ,with the media having such low level of ethics and rude (same as paki millitant logic) how could nidi say anything about it ,its their agenda aswell.no wonder our media and paki scholars have the same set of braindead logic. we need to realise because of this , we lost the intiative against pakisthan.due to these loathsome union ministers ,and media (ofcourse for them anything that obstructs paki artists from flying to india for few musical nights is a sinful act)pakistan is riding on india saying we are not cooperating.open anti india rallys in pakisthan , bunkers being put up around LOC is few such instances.all result of complete negligence and ignoring indias interest by this Minion govt.wonder where will india end up by the time this govt ends its tenure??

27. agusoke
    16. February 2010 - 5:47 PM

    I watched a pakistani participating in the debate of PUNE BLAST in one of the 24/7 english news channels.
    Some news paper editor,a congresswallah and a bjpwallah were the other participants. After watching the debate, I have a question. WAS IT NOT REDUNDANT TO HAVE PAKISTANI IN THE DEBATE WHEN CONGRESSWALLAH WAS VERY MUCH PRESENT THERE?

28. Sid
    17. February 2010 - 1:04 AM

    agusoke,
    “WAS IT NOT REDUNDANT TO HAVE PAKISTANI IN THE DEBATE WHEN CONGRESSWALLAH WAS VERY MUCH PRESENT THERE?” – No. It is necessary to have the Pakistani guy there to prove that our Congresswalas are more Pakistan-lover than the Pakistani guy. But why do we keep getting surprised with this? We ourselves wrapped our country in a gift-pack and sent it to the traitors only last year.

29. raman
    18. February 2010 - 3:40 PM

    phew ! what a disappointment. i opened ur blog today expecting a nice write-up on MNK / airport scanning / good muslims and here u are wasting space on terrorist attacks.

30. N Shah
    19. February 2010 - 9:42 PM

    Well said. Our blood and tears are OUR blood and tears. Unfortunately , we havent developed a spine like Israel has.

31. anony
    21. February 2010 - 9:11 PM

    Muslims should be disenfranchised.Given basic diet and shanty housing.This will give us a huge cheap labour force which can be used for infrastructure building and maintainence like sanitation services.We will get cheap agricultural,domestic,construction and industrial labour.Which will benefit intellectuals,soldiers,farmers,businessmen,all sections.Strict monitoring of human rights should be ensured so that muslims are not brutally exploited.Similarly christists should be the target in the next round.May be wet dreams.But a consensus can be attempted among forwards,backwards and dalits.This will reduce burden on scarce resources and also give us a reservoir of cheap labour.

    Also Urdu should be banned.The entire property of Church should be confiscated-schoolss,churches should be used for the benefit of dalits.Oru Kalula rendu maanga-One stone,two mangoes.Dalit emancipation at the cost of christism.

    In time,muslim population will come down.After they becme miniscule in number,they can be given full rights.All the very talented people like Zaheer Khan can be given honorary status.

32. Sid
    22. February 2010 - 7:59 AM

    anony,

    are you trying to suggest a new caste-like system? Christian or Muslim or Marxists, they are sons of the same soil. They need to be shown how they are tricked into accepting something that is not their own and how, in the process, they or their forefathers disowned something that was part of their identity. They also need to be clearly told that if they expect the majority to treat them with dignity, they need to shade the baggage of their “universal brotherhood” thing. But this is no way. Your first few sentences are completely deplorable, if not unacceptable. I do not care who in this blog finds your views acceptable, but I do not. Oh, by the way, sanitary work is also a work, an honest one.

33. anony
    22. February 2010 - 9:34 AM

    Sid,
    I am 40+.I have been a dreamer almost all my life.But I have not desisted from ethical,useful activity.I am aware of the dynamic nature of life and the yearning among the real elite to maintain standards.By the modern western(or the mulatu indian version) notions of life,I am NOT a success.But in my view,i am NOT a failure.

    Liberaliam,without a dose of conservatism,is the worst dogma of all.Let me quote Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Mahaswaminah(Devil quoting Scripture) on the human predicament.This from a Jnani who sought NOTHING from life.Acharya was a defender of Sanatana Dharma,not Hinduism.He could never have the ego of a semi-educated Brahmin like me.For HIM,even Islam was a path to God.

    The Acharya described the human predicament as ‘Svaatmanupreethi’-the desire for one’s own good.Everything else flows from this.Sri Krishna in the Vibhuti Yoga describes Himself in many ways.He is the taste in water,He is the Brihat Saama,He is Vishnu among Adityas etc.He says that He is Desire which is not against Dharma.

    All worldly activity or Upaasana is with desire-Desire for worldly goods,Desire for getting Lord’s Grace,Desire for Chitta Suddhi,Desire of Liberation.The Hindu Faith accepts Karma as natural human desire/drive.Islam/christism is anti-vedic karma.We are against political Islam/christism,.As one from Tamil nadu,I have no love lost for DMK/PMK.But atleast their hatred is inspired by whitey theories.They themselves have no theory to stand on.But Islam/christism is fundamentally anti-Indian.We are surrounded by BD,Porkistan.

    The egalitarianism of Islam/christism is a joke if you have studied Islamic/christist socities.The amount of dogmas/superstitions they carry make them fundamentally inhuman.Why does Islamic/christist powers oppose Communism if they are so egalitarian.Egalitarian-my foot,Pakbarians,Texan billionaires,Jewish investors,DMK thugs.The Hindu view of wealth creation is rational,just and humane.(relatively).Westerners eliminated Native Americans,stole their land,enslaved blacks,deported/imported indentured indian labour to far off corners of the world.Middle East is run by cheap labour.The West wants its own varnashrama system.

    We have both the Daiva and Asuric sampathi in us.The Rajasa and Sattva gunas are both in us.There is no perfect ‘soultion’ to the ‘world’.Hindus are as imperfect as others.But we are being taken for a ride,because we introspect and have the tendency to be fair.Not all,but atleast some who vent our frustrations in blogs like these.Most congressman are cynical,ruthless purveyors of self-interest creating chaos.They incite worst casteism.

    Under the circumstances,muslims as the new ‘dalits’ seems to me a practical solution.Consensus can be built.Human rights can be secured for them.Hindus have been exterminated in nearby countries.It makes political,economic sense for ‘my’ ‘idea’.It has the merit of continuity,tradition and also ‘change’.Claude Levi Strauss has observed the notion of homo-heirarchus is built in us.Kshatriya,Vaishya rivalries (business and political rivalries) cannot be wished away.Have we not heard of dayadi rivalries among brahmanas.The ‘liberal’ societies of West came after genocide,extermination and slavery.In 1946,a radio announcer in BBC,remarked that this will be the ‘last’ war.Sigmand Freud chuckled:Yes,it will be MY last war.

    According to Sanatana Dharma,it is because we have rajasic tendencies that we are born.Otherwise we would have attained ‘moksha’ in ‘previous’ ‘janmas’.You can take it as some cognitive pattern making.Mere belief in ONE GOD does not make one perfect.The Advaitic doctrine has demanded higher values than mere ‘belief’.In fact monotheism,which has often degenerated to worst cabal behaviour has produced more bloodshed than superstitious local customs.

    I am looking at it from a semi-educated Brahmin viewpoint.Political Islam/christism will balkanise India.I am not enamoured of hindu dalits/obcs.But atleast they are part of the Hindu framework.In many ways,it is the ‘simple’ among them,who underpin our system.The Americans care for core White christist constituencies in Mid West.

    The US likes Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.Why? They stick to the Abrahamic framework.South Korea/Philipinnes/Latin America is Christianised.There is no doubt that it was an ascendant west that accomplished all this.

    Hindu Brahminical system today is a pale imitation of the west.But a Hindu revival can accomplish much for us.The Rise of West was accompanied by genocide of Natives in the Americas,impoverishment of India,Black Slavery.

    India is threatened by political abrahamism.We are only hitting back.(Wet dreams,but hoping against hope).Of course,one can see this as all maya and go back to doing sandhyavandam and leaving everything to God and carry on with ones activity.

34. Rajiv Chandran
    22. February 2010 - 10:40 AM

    @Sid
    Absolutely agree with your statements.

    @Anony
    I have found a number of your other statements on this blog well thought out – however I was taken aback by some of your statements here. So here is my two cents :-
    1. Hindu parties must directly communicate to muslims and not let seculars be mediators.
    2. Hindu parties should not be apologetic about converting muslims / christians back to dharmic fold – and start in real earnest to work towards it.
    3. Abrahmic religions in India must be encouraged to adopt dharmic means, methods and philosophy – if they choose to retain thier faith – and should be encouraged to carry on evangelism of these beliefs outside India.
    4. Followers of Abrahmic religions should be encouraged to consider themselves as ambassadors of India to other religions – not the other way round – ie ambassadors of these religions to India (and particularly hindus)
    5. Followers of Abrahmic religions should be made to realize and understand the process of interjection of alien identities and values on them, and be asked to work honestly towards reconciliation with thier countrymen.
    6. Neutralize venues for propagation of alien values by curtailing foreign donations for faith related activities, and discouraging activities of foreign preachers, missionaries etc.
    7. Take impartial , stern and decisive action against those who vitiate social harmony or resort to violence in the name of faiths – to dissuade others from doing the same.
    8. Take control of political, social, academic discourse by learning traditional viewpoints and positions and challenging those made from a western viewpoint.
    9. Work for uniform social, criminal and civil laws, a non-discriminatory political, judicial and administrative systems.
    10. Work to impart civilizational pride in all Indians. Also dignify various identities like castes (jatis) as well as regional and linguistic identities.

35. Rajiv Chandran
    22. February 2010 - 10:57 AM

    @Anony – I think you beat me to the post – in my last post I was referring to your post to which Sid responded.
    I deeply feel and relate to the pain and anguish that you refer to. Yes it is true that most of the present “modern” world has come about by means of genocide, usurpation, enslavement and bigotry – but the question is do we Hindus visit the same on our own people – does it agree with our civilizational ethos. I am unable to agree that varnashrama system (a conceptual paradigm at best) has anything to do with what the west / muslims have done to other people – pillage, rapine, enslavement, genocide, appropriation of land, resources, minds, heritage – you name it they have it. In my belief ancient hindu ethos was informed by a profound sense of justice – what happened to the native americans was wholesale loot. The same was partially visited on us by the British. The question is if we want to do the same to our own people – and justify it as varnashrama.
    Sorry I am not able to agree with your explanation.

36. anony
    22. February 2010 - 3:07 PM

    I can be taken as a madman,frustrated idiot or a failure.Take it for whatever it is worth.The Hindus are no paragon of virtue.The mahound is not without reason.But as Dr.Ambedkar observed,when it is Hindu reasoning vs muslim bullying,you know the outcome.What was/is the plight of OBC/Sc Hindus in West Punjab and East Bengal?

    India is incredibly diverse.The Brahmanas have always ‘feared’ the mlecchas and fourth varna.Atleast,I am talking about a second rate person like me.At times,the Brahmanas have supported mlecchas for the sake of order.Today,we have universal ‘education’.The OBCs will determine whether India continue as a progressive society.Some one like ‘reality check’(realitycheck.wordpress.com) believes all problems in India stem from unmonitored reservation benefits.He wants to exclude all scs from the purview of review.OBCs in Tamilnadu like Gounders,Thevars,mudaliars will NEVER accept review because they are the SONS OF SOIL.So some 50% of power automatically goes to ‘obcs’ and ‘scs’.The Hindu upper castes have been completely check mated by reservation,Islamism and christism.Islamism is the least threat now, because muslims have still not found their electoral power.The Congress used the muslims very well for 40 years.Inevitably,Hindus have found their voice in North India.But now Congress on the backfoot because of OBC mobilisation is wooing muslims.The muslims are becoming aware of their demographic clout.
    In Tamizh,there is a proverb.(Saatchi karan kallle vizharathuku chandai karan kallle vizhalam).Instead of falling at the feet of the witness,we can fall at the feet of the disputant.ie engage the disputant directly.

    It is from the ‘vis’ the common man,the Rajanya and Brahmana emerged.Why not an amicable settlement with ‘OBCs’ and Hindu ‘dalits’ to secure our land and rights.After consolidation,we can take back occupied lands in Northwest India.Mohammedans practice taqqiya.Why not we pursue natural consolidation.Great care will have to be taken to ensure human rights.Right now there is a huge muslim population which is backward.They will find little difference in their condition.We will not be depriving them of anything.A possible(a virtual certainity) cancer will be removed at a nascent condition.

37. arun
    22. February 2010 - 6:11 PM

    very nice post on blog

38. anony
    22. February 2010 - 6:15 PM

    The Congress core group representsthe sophisticated Hindu upper castes ‘directing’India .It also has a better understanding of caste calculus.It also has a substantial base among peasant castes in some states.(AP,Rajasthan,Maharashtra,Haryana)
    Yet it has also yielded to many local satraps.The diversity of India is not Congress’s fault.Nor is it responsible for British machinations.
    It has a certain contempt for the pretenders.A famous shloka in praise of Sankara says: Sruti Smriti puraanam aalayam karunaalayam,Namami Bhagavad pada sankaram,loka samkaram.It illustrates the relative importance of puraanas vide the sruthi.Puraanas illustrate Truth and can vary in quality.
    Sometimes,I feel the MSM Dork media which has no brain of its own serves the Congress purpose mouthing inanities while we build economic and military muscle.

    Puraana pravachana and sravana have their limits.It is svadharma that ultimately scores.The Congress uses the dork media for sekularism but also to cut down to size Shiv Sena,DMK,Akalis.Right now it is ok,but we need active propoganda for the coming times.

    The Congress as a mass cadre based party is dead in many states.The Congress corrupted by power and lacking mass base had to yield to more robust elements in many states

    A more robust Hindu dispensation wll lead india out of the present ‘impasse’.But it will be a tortuous process.

39. anony
    22. February 2010 - 10:07 PM

    Satyameva Jayate.Let Dharma prevail.Jaya Ho to Bharatha Varsha!Let all casteist divisive politics end.Let us all pray to Iswara.Death to Porkistan and Han Imperialism.

40. Ram
    23. February 2010 - 2:51 PM

    This is something interesting. NDTV gives this news about hindu group might have been involved this blast. Please check http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/pune_blast_hindu_outfit_links_not_ruled_out_says_official.php

41. Sid
    23. February 2010 - 11:22 PM

    anony,
    “Varnashrama” was a practice that was probably necessary in a world that was different from today’s world in many ways. It is a relic of the past. A so-called dalit is a Hindu, so is a Brahman or a Thakur. There is no reason to consider them separate, politically or economically. There are economically backward dalits, but then there are economically backward Brahmins and rajputs. A limited reservation is necessary for economically backward groups, but reservation in it’s current form are creating problems that we would spend years to fix.

    “The OBCs will determine whether India continue as a progressive society.” – No, they are not the majority neither they are the most affluent or influential part of the society. Path of the society is always determined by the most learned, strongest and wealthiest. When wise, wealthy and powerful join together for a goal, others follow their path and society prospers. That is why Yudhisthira told Dharma that a path is where you go following the great and wise. Our problem started with the fact that we, the Hindus, have managed to ignore greats in our society, worshipped enemy and then walked along the path traitors have gone before. Naturally, we are stripped of our values, we became slaves of our own making, unwittingly submitting ourselves to a foreign-born or foreign-educated or foreign-endorsed elites who has no stake in our collective future. Today, a convenient marriage of nepotism and dishnest elites has created new casteism in which a selected few families are new “Brahmins”. The tyranny of liberalism is becoming as insufferable as the colonial rule.

    “What was/is the plight of OBC/Sc Hindus in West Punjab and East Bengal?” – Is not that obvious with the recent news of beheading of sikhs in Pakistan?

    The entire minority appeasement game also illustrates why we must make an effort to get people to own something their forefathers disowned centuries ago. Islam, Christianity or Marxism – all of them are a great way to divide the subcontinent so that these imperialist doctrines can get a slice of the pie. We can not consider Mahamedans as another separate group and apply a “they and us” paradigm. They are our own, they need to recognize that this is their home, we are their close neighbours, not an Arabian Sheikh. As long as they keep following the cultural imperialism that was bought to the sub continent with Turkish sword, I do not think they would be able to manage that.

42. Rama
    24. February 2010 - 8:04 AM

    Hey, Anoy, being a Tamil brhamin, I can sort of agree with you in most of the things you say.As the upper caste, in TN, we have been getting the rough end of the pineapple up our arse , to put it politely,for too long from DK/DMK mob.Anyhow, the point is, we need to get the Dalit muslims and Christians back into the Hindu fold. I totally agree with you that we should get rid of castes in our religion.
    There is a guy called “Malarmannan”, a journalist from TN, who is doing his best in this regard ( reconversion of Muslims/Christians). I have helped financially for this cause. All financial help will be appreciated by him though he does not canvass for it.
    Reconversion of Muslims/ Christians to Hinduisim should be number one priority for all Hindus.

43. Kedar
    24. February 2010 - 2:08 PM

    We all have our likes,dislikes, and tastes. It doesnt matter.

    As an example,
    tamilian lower caste people may not like tamilian brahmins,
    tamilian iyer brahmins may not like tamilian iyengar brahmins,
    tamilian vadagaLai iyengar brahmins may not like tamilian tengaLai iyengar brahmins, and
    tamilian vadagaLai iyengars settled in telangana may not like tamilian vadagaLai iyengars settled in andhra.

    It simply doesnt matter.

    Dharma is not concerned about likes and dislikes. We have to come together and I know that WE WILL come together for dharma-sthaapana.

44. Sid
    25. February 2010 - 2:49 AM

    Kedar,

    I can not agree more. There were differences before, there are differences and there will be differences. But that should not stop us from recognizing the threat and get all the help we can. Paid opinion makers whom we call journalists by mistake, will not be helping us anyway.

45. Varatharaajan
    25. February 2010 - 7:43 AM

    There is no use blaming the politicians. Our constitution makers and the nationalist Janatha and subsequent BJP regimes did nothing to prevent corrupt individuals and criminals from occupying even the highest positions of power in our country. Today our PM is busy with congratulating Sachin Tendulakar, rather than tackle Pak sponsored terror attacks and silent invasion from China. Our politicians have mastered the art of cheating the common with bogus statistics and false propoganda. As everybody knows Sonia dictates everything! UPA has succeeded in reducing the BJP to a non entity with the help of the electronic and print media, very well known to be close to the Communists and the Christian missionaries. Our failure in handling internal security problems like naxals and the islamic terrorists is ample proof of the wrong perspective which no politician is ready to understand. Treating a terrorist like a criminal and providing him legal assistance is the non-sense of the highest order and this is the order of the day! Terrorism cannot survive without ideological and financial sponsors, and to tackle that we need to cut the roots of terrorism with a similar type of cross boarder activity. Our hostile neighbours should not even dare to think of any type of aggression because of their engagement in their domestic complexities. We need not target the civilian population but we have to dismantle the terror training camps and funding agencies. Our military expertise and strength is to be realised by all our hostile neighbours to make them realise that we are good if our neighbour also behaves in the same manner.

46. Rajiv Chandran
    25. February 2010 - 8:36 AM

    When we discuss ‘caste’ we need to ask ourselves the question why is it that no one is willing to touch it even with a bargepole. It is an identity that is currently in use, and as (if not more) relevant as our linguistic identities. It would be instructive to ask ourself when did ‘caste’ become a taboo – reviled and shunned by all. There is no indication that before 19th century – Indians even thought or reacted to it in the manner we do today. If caste was so discriminatory as it is made out to be why isnt there a single caste based revolt in historical memory – something akin to the numerous peasant revolts in Chinese history. Why is that ostensibly egalitarian religions like christianity and islam also embrace the same social constructs in India. Why is it if Hindus were so caste-obsessed did they not export the same model to the many other countries where thier religion and culture spread. Dharampal quotes early british statistics to show that in all fields education, social participation etc all castes were represented. he states that today’s OBCs formed more than 75% of all rulers of India. So how is it that within a short span of 200 years they have started considering themselves oppressed ? I think we need to revisit and reexamine the caste paradigm – which was handed to us by the british. So what has caused a change in mind. Is this something programmed into us by western education and categories ? I would defnitely think so. We are so afraid of appearing to be casteist that we do not even dare to mention this concept in ways other than that in which the westerners defined it, let alone rationally examining the construction of this paradigm.
    After the mass dislocation of the Indian social structure affected by british conquests. I am amazed by how the Brahmins were divested of thier knowledge, historical memory etc and thier heritage was appropriated by the westerner (by showing the brahmin as a mongrel product of aryan invasion), and then subsequently demonized as the perpetual oppressor of Indian masses. Similarly the warrior castes which were decimated in much of northern india due to the muslim invasion/rule were divested of thier land and influence, recruited as mercenaries and used against indian masses, and then demonized as the quintessential eastern despot – sadistic and lecherous. The business class which ran industries and commerce across much of asia was dismantled, dispossessed pushed into unproductive rural niches – and then projected as the quintessential baniya leeching on the peasants blood. The urban artisan was dispossesed of his trade, driven out of cities and made to live off the land paying huge taxes along with the humble farmer all the while. After robbing them of thier prosperity and well being they are being accused of being parochial, casteist, superstitious and what not. Dharampal provides many of a proof demonstrating how this dynamic worked. Nicholas Dirks provides an understanding of how India’s myriad identities were dovetailed into one repulsive word caste and then used to demonize Indians as a whole.

    It is really sad that we still repeat the same paradigms. For much of my own life I had complexes of being akin to OBCs. Reflexively attributing caste discrimination the the smallest of slights. Trying to understand much of our society and it’s dynamics in the context of this recieved wisdom. It has been a hard 3-4 years revisting those assumptions and finding its defenders wanting. HOwever now I understand that these perceptions are the result of our alien outlook which has continuously fostered caste discrimination and consolidation, rather than reconciliation and understanding.

    What I find sad is that even Brahmins and the so called higher caste have the self-perception of being eternal oppressors drilled into them so that they spout the same recieved wisdon ignoring the fact that they are as much victims of the same dynamic that has caused the so called lower castes to be dispossesed of thier dignity. The fact is that caste as a stick all label to describe Indian social situation is the invention of the common oppressor. We should use traditional indian defitions to describe the Indian situation like varnashrama (a quasi-theological concept) and jati (socials grouping not dissimilar to european guilds). We should stop according that word that is a concoction and construction called caste any dignity. We should forthwith stop using the word in our discourse.

47. Sid
    25. February 2010 - 11:26 PM

    Rajiv,
    Wait, the entire concept of caste may not be fully European construct. How else would you explain untouchables? I am yet to find any Hindu scripture that define untouchables, but social practice has evolved into something really bad. I am not intimately familiar with social patterns or their evolution in southern regions, but I am pretty well versed with the social patterns that evolved in my region (Bengal) even before Turks arrived.
    I will give an example. Bengal’s last Hindu empire was under the rulers of Sen dynasty (1100-1250 CE). The third king of the dynasty, Ballal Sen (he was also maternal grandfather of Prithviraj Chauhan), considered himself a great Shaivite and a reformer. He began to re-define the Bengali society which he believed was under the ill influence of Buddhists and Tantriks. His solution to this? He began to apply the strict paradigms of caste system which was prevalent in Kanauj at that time. This resulted in friction and king forced every dissident to run to far east or south. European and Marxist historians tried to show that this resulted into Hindu prosecution of Buddhists but any so-called nama-sudra would tell you family histories that show that the king similarly prosecuted Brahmins who did not agree with him.
    This created an artificial divide and people loyal to Sens disliked who fled to east and considered them low-bred or lower-castes. Over time it resulted in a situation where people at the west side had a “holier-than-thou” view of the people at the eastern side (which is now Bangladesh). After Turkish invasion, specially after Pratapaditya’s fall, Muslim prosecution of Hindus became insufferable in the east and a good number of Hindus ran to the west. In the west too, it was the time of fall of Hindu society and social taboos took over judgement and dharmic traditions. Ubtouchability took root and ever since then it is proving to be a multi-headed hydra despite serious efforts made by likes of Swami Vivekananda.

48. Incognito
    26. February 2010 - 6:03 AM

    When will Shri Rajiv Chandran develop the wisdom to post his thought-provoking thoughts on blogs directly instead of restricting them to the comments section ?

49. manu
    1. March 2010 - 1:46 PM

    Where is Bharatvarsha?
    The Land where parents were God.
    Where everybody tried to be Ram & every woman Sita.
    Where younger brother was ready to renounce kingship for his brother.
    Where the society was based on ideals.
    Where truth had no value as nobody said lies.
    Now this so called modern education has degenerated these ideas. People do not strive to follow the ideals.This has led to downfall of socitey and has resulted in corruption, false beliefs, drinking,
    suicides etc.
    India exists only because of this great civilisation called Sanatan Dharma. India exists only because some people still do follow these ideals of that Dharma.
    The day this character of India disapears it will cease to exist. Remember what Swami Vivekanand had said, As long as you protect Hindu dharma bharat exists.
    Therefore follow the Dharma and save the country

50. Dinesh Chanchalani
    2. March 2010 - 1:15 AM

    Hey Sandeep,
    This is one of the best blogs I’ve read here.
    Regards,
    Dinesh

51. Rajiv Chandran
    4. March 2010 - 6:43 PM

    Incognito – thanks for your encouraging comments. I hope to come up with something soon enough (if not soon) – hopefully as soon as I am able to clamber over the mountain of daily work and worry

52. Rajiv Chandran
    4. March 2010 - 7:04 PM

    Sid

    Whenever we mention caste we are referring to many sepereate things at the same time like varnashrama, jati, discrimination, exclusivity, untouchabiltiy. My only claim is that the word caste derived from portuguese casta combines all these (and some other less than complimentary connotations) and presents these as one. The academic category ‘caste’ does not refer therefore to social realities of India – rather it exists only in the European experience of India. That is not to say that the that the Indian categories did not exist – they did but distinct from each other with occassional overlaps – and totally different from what is represented and indicated to by the word caste.

    The indegenous terms can be understood in thier own contexts, strengths and weaknesses without needing christian/western categories to present it to us. My problem is that the complex social realities that dovetailed into simplistic paradigms that are then used to malign hindus and indians.

    For example it is evident that otherwise ‘lower’ castes as per varnashrama ie shudras were many a times warrior castes and rulers in many parts of South India – ditto for central and west india. Or that there are untouchable communities that practice untouchability towards other untouchables, or in orthodox communities even women are/were considered untouchable at certain times. Also I think there are examples of Brahmin communities being exclusionary towards other Brahmin communities, ditto similar mechanism between many ‘untouchable’ communities. Also how is a schedule caste in the himachal related to a schedule caste in Andhra ? Can we demonstrate a historical process by which the same ‘caste’ dynamic originally spread and was applied to all. Simply speaking we dont have such a mechanism – and the theoretical and etymological correlations of ‘caste’ simply do not begin to describe this complex reality.

    The more I read and try to understand caste – it is more and more evident that this is a constructed and artificial paradigm – returning to the original categories may be helpful in gaining a truer understanding of Indian social reality.

53. Palahalli
    4. March 2010 - 7:39 PM

    Rajiv Chandran, et al – How is Varna, Caste?

54. Rajiv Chandran
    4. March 2010 - 8:33 PM

    Palahalli – my entire point here is to refute that Caste (whatever it is) is Varna.
    Caste is alien terminology that attempts but fails to describe the sometimes overlapping, but overall distinct concepts and complex social realities and structures of India.

55. Sid
    4. March 2010 - 9:05 PM

    Rajiv,

    I see. That is making sense. I thought that you wanted to claim that the system that we call caste today is entirely European idea.

56. Palahalli
    4. March 2010 - 10:29 PM

    No. My question is simpler.

    Is Caste or whatever you want to call it, the same or similar to Varna?

    Or,

    If Caste is an alien concept, is it’s Hindu version or concept the same or similar to Varna?

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