The Lion that Became a Lamb

The Indian media overall is a whore with none of the ethics of a whore, a fact that’s pretty much self-evident now. Yet there are very few exceptions, and once in a long while somebody in this well-oiled and smoothly-functioning corporatized whoredom gets stung by the call of conscience and for a change, begins to tell the truth. That’s when the carrot-and-stick trick, as old as mankind, is employed. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: India is not a democracy and the Indian media is only as free as the government allows it to be. And no other party has perfected this trick as well as the Congress.

Case in point: DNA & Aditya Sinha. More specifically, this irrational, illogical, and factually-vacuous rant against Narendra Modi, which is presented, quite accurately under a “column” entitled reductio ad absurdum.

Aditya Sinha really attracted attention first with his fiery anti-UPA articles when he was head of the New Indian Express based out of Chennai. His election analyses, his boxing punches thrown at an 87-year old relic, and his relentless attacks on the Spineless Wonder and the Bosserina and her Brat were all right on the money.  And then he joined DNA after R Jagannathan (aka the Barkha Dutt of FirstPost) quit. At DNA, Sinha continued the job he was doing at New Indian Express kicking the UPA’s ass at regular intervals.

And then on September 18, he wrote about Ambika Soni’s adventures in arm-twisting. He closed the piece with a heroic:

As for being critical of the ruling party, isn’t that what being the “watchdog of democracy” is all about? And which self-respecting journalist would support an oligarchic government bogged down by corruption? This does not mean that DNA attacks only for the sake of attack…The government apparently feels no shame that an emerging power like India should be witness to such clumsy attempts at arm-twisting the media. From our side, however, all news will continue to be treated on merit, even if it shows the government in poor light. For DNA, it serves the public interest to expose faulty decision-making, malfeasance and corruption. Loss of business can be measured, but the loss of credibility cannot. Above all, that someone in government tried to be petty and vindictive is, to us, validation that we were doing our job right.

Pretty valiant eh? Now let’s take him on his word and examine how he performs with regard to his self-stated courageous parameters:

  • all news will be treated on merit even if it shows the government in poor light
  • serves public interest to expose faulty decision-making, malfeasance and corruption
  • loss of credibility cannot be measured…validating that DNA was doing its job right.

A good instance to examine his performance is the aforementioned piece of prosaic rampage that he went on on November 13 against Narendra Modi. This is as sudden, as random, and as surprising coming from Sinha given that he has never taken any stand on the Gujarat Chief Minister so far. Because it’d be cruel to attribute this sudden screed to Sinha’s temporary suspension of sanity, we need to conclude that the heat that Ambika Soni generated from her ministerial cabin had a huge part to play behind Sinha’s mindless vilification of Modi. And so, let’s begin the examination.

You don’t need to go far because Aditya Sinha gets it completely wrong from the first sentence:

This week’s court conviction of 31 people for crimes including murder during the 2002 post-Godhra riots in Gujarat makes it clear that state Chief Minister Narendra Modi will never be prime minister of India.

Sinha echoes this familiar refrain that’s typically employed by semi-brained analysts and braindead TV divas and alcoholic academics: that Modi wants to become the PM. Till date, even as I write this, Modi hasn’t expressed any such intention. Dear Sinha, do you really want a career in reading Modi’s mind? But even on purely logical grounds, how can anyone relate this conviction with Modi given that Modi wasn’t named an accused in any riot? Oh, Sinha also needs to stop assuming that his readers are idiots: since when has something like a conviction stopped an Indian politician from becoming a minister? Here’s a partial list, Mr. Sinha: Lalu Prasad Yadav, Sheila Dikshit, Jagdish Tytler, and the who’s who of DMK. Do these names mean anything to you especially when used in connection with “conviction” and “minister?” It’s pretty surprising that Aditya Sinha chooses to diss Modi than laud the judiciary in Gujarat that convicted these 31 persons. Exactly how many convictions have happened in the tons of Congress-sponsored communal riots from Independence till date? Forget riots in the plural and let’s take just one riot. The 1984 “Rajiv-Gandhi earth shakes” riots.  Can you, Mr. Sinha tell us how many were convicted in that bloodbath? The number surely isn’t 31. Hell, I’ll be surprised if it’s even 13. Mr. Sinha, your colleagues in the media routinely yelp about how they have “grave suspicions” about the impartiality of the judiciary in Gujarat. Now that it’s been proven otherwise, why do you still choose to adopt the Path of Selective Blindness? Who’s more serious about justice, Mr. Sinha?

This ladies and gentlemen, is the nature of Sinha’s venom-spewing and I’m still on the first sentence.

Starting with the second sentence, and onwards, Sinha sends his imagination on a crazy F1 circuit wildly zipping at insane speeds and spitting out words like “egoistical,” “aggression,” and “ruthlessness” along the way. The fact that he’s lucky to live in a poisonous atmosphere that lets him get away with mere invectives than evidence helps his ranting a great deal. But wait, he does give a semblance of “evidence” when he says:

…indeed he is contemptuous about making shows of generosity towards Muslims, as evidenced during his fast (an attempt to appropriate Anna Hazare’s effective anti-Congress tool) when he refused to wear a cap offered by a Muslim.

This is like saying DNA is a crap newspaper because it’s not printed on UV ultra gloss paper. It’s a different matter that this very piece by Sinha is evidence itself that DNA is indeed, a crap paper but let’s let that go. So, Aditya Sinha’s equation seems to be this: Secularism=Wearing a Skullcap. By this token, the Congress party, Lalu, Mulayam and the whole despicable political spectrum has perfected the Art of Wearing Skullcaps and throwing Iftaar parties to an extent that leaves the poor minorities…well, poor. 60+ years of minority-generosity—a generosity, which for 45+ years was bestowed the Congress party itself—has resulted in the poor minorities actually regress from worse to worser. But Modi refusing to wear a skullcap suddenly becomes THE ACID TEST that proves he’s not generous to Muslims. This also passes off as analysis.

Oh and then the Gujarat Riots Cottage Industry’s latest heartthrob, Sanjiv Bhatt. According to Sinha’s non-existent reasoning,

…no matter how compromised the credibility of police officer Sanjiv Bhatt may be, Modi’s government’s attempts to discredit him mirror the clumsy attempts by the Congress party to discredit Anna Hazare’s team.

What are you exactly advocating Mr. Sinha? That the rogue cop’s crappy credibility is not a matter of concern? That the Gujarat government must not act against his vile deeds because it’ll be perceived as being vindictive if it acts? Are you really that dumb or ignorant of the facts of Bhatt’s sorry deeds? Bhatt is facing heat for crimes he committed in 1990, 1996, and 1997, years when Modi was not even in Gujarat politics. Congress party’s screw-Anna-everyday antics was—and remains—harassment. Gujarat government’s action against Bhatt is an investigation that has strong legal grounds. If Aditya Sinha can tell us the brand of banned substance he’s smoking, we can refer it to the NCB.

By now, we’re familiar with Aditya Sinha’s brand of demonizing Modi—let it be said that it’s definitely not an analysis or argument. A pattern, a kind of formula emerges: discredit every demonstrable positive achievement of Modi with two parts of invective and three parts of credit-theft. Ok, I made up that two and three parts bit. But you get the picture.

Exhibit XXX:

India Inc can’t stop gushing about how Modi…will be the one to take India to the next stage of rapid economic growth, but these are contestable claims. I wonder whether or not Gujarat, which has traditionally seen high economic activity in India, would have grown without Modi at the helm. I also wonder how many Gujarati industrialists are willing to concede that their rise and success is due to Modi. In any case, the crony capitalism and the corporate complicity in big-ticket corruption during past few years are evidence of how little India Inc really cares for India.

Of course, everything is contestable in Modi’s case. If Modi says the Sun rises in the east, it immediately becomes contestable because Modi said it. That’s right: the Gujaratis’ business acumen ensures the state’s prosperity even if the government stops power and water supply, digs up roads, blows up highways and ports…the Gujaratis’ business acumen will miraculously generate power on its own, get water on its own, and the rest. Mr. Sinha, ever heard of something called government policy-making? That is what makes a state or country prosperous. Policy and its clean, honest, and transparent enforcement is what makes the government a facilitator of economic (and other) progress. I know you know all this but you’re on that illegal trip. The last I heard :

  • nobody ever asked Gujarati industrialists who they attribute their success to
  • the said Gujarati industrialists haven’t told any such thing
  • even if a few have, it’s their business and views and not good for Sinha’s already-smoked-up sensibilities to second-guess them.

India Inc is made up of hundreds of thousands of businesses. Mr. Sinha, are you seriously telling us that the ENTIRE India Inc is complicit in corruption? If you do, that itself says a lot about how you perceive people in general. Yad bhavam tad bhavati: you perceive something according to how you’re mentally wired: if one is a seasoned debauch, the word “pussy” doesn’t automatically conjure up the image of a cat. Also, crony capitalism is another of those bastard children that was begotten when  Nehru put his socialist fantasies into practice.

The worst from Sinha’s scurrilous pen comes next . For no…err…logical reason, he draws up a parallel between Rick Perry and Narendra Modi.

Anybody who thinks that Modi is the man to rescue the nation from the Congress should also look at the parallels thrown up by the coming US presidential elections. President Barack Obama has unfortunately had to hold office during a time when the global economy has spluttered and faces further “lost years”. His leadership has been found wanting by his voters and all precedent points to his being a single-term president — if he faces a strong opponent. Trouble is, Republicans don’t seem able to find a strong candidate to take on Obama. In the run-up to their primary process, each Republican candidate looks more ridiculous and unelectable than the next. An apt analogy might be that Narendra Modi is the Rick Perry of Indian politics. Except that Rick Perry did not preside over the murder of nearly a thousand Texans.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is fiction. Here’s why:

  • India is not America. The internal realities confronting the two nations are vastly different, not comparable by any yardstick.
  • Obama inherited a badly-mauled economy, whose destructive seeds were sown during an earlier Democrat’s Presidency—Clinton’s. India for the most part, has been mauled—and continues to be mauled—for about 50+ years by a single dynasty. This is a mauling and a loot unparalleled in any nation that calls itself a democracy.
  • This mauling has exploded in the nation’s face under UPA 2.0 and the aftermath of this explosion is hurtling India down the path of irreversible destruction in small bits everyday.
  • America has a functional democracy. India has a mobocracy or a mafiocracy if you will.
  • America’s current problem is rooted in the greed of some rich people and thanks to some institutions and people that are still robust and honest, there can be some course correction provided tough measures are taken. India’s problem is rooted in the greed and power-hunger of one dynasty, which is propped up by thugs and charlatans and convicted criminals whose career progression led them to occupy powerful berths in the nation’s cabinet.
  • The only exception to this thuggery, etc is Narendra Modi whose record as Chief Minister for 3 consecutive terms has been solid with no corruption and staggering economic growth.

As for analogies, the fact that Aditya Sinha has compared Narendra Modi with Rick Perry proves that he, Aditya Sinha himself, can be compared to Rick Sanchez. Mr. Sinha, go look him up.  If you’re unwilling or lazy or still under the influence of that vile substance, check out profile #49 here. Rick Perry is a conservative Christian who belongs to the Republican Party. Does Aditya Sinha seriously imply that Modi is a “conservative Hindu?” Is there even something like a “conservative Hindu” in the Indian political parlance? The chances of me still having faith in Sinha’s sanity—despite this I-hate-Modi piece—hinge dangerously on his answer to this question.

And hey, Mr. Sinha, while we’re on comparisons, why don’t you think it’s fair to compare Rahul Gandhi with Sarah Palin? Or will Big Momma Ambika Soni take your paper’s case again if you do that and have you write yet another imposition that tasks you with suspending your sanity yet again? Dissecting the result of one such suspended-sanity was unfortunate enough for me. Please spare me. And your readers. And yourself.

446 comments for “The Lion that Became a Lamb

  1. Vinay
    December 4, 2011 at 1:17 AM

    @Anand
    The teaching of values is the responsibility primarily of one’s parents, Comrade. Have you been taught any?

    I ask this question because if the parent is a dirtbag himself — for example, ask anyone in Bomaby and they tell you he destroyed poor people’s homes to lick his bosses’ butts — can we expect better from his offspring?

    So now we know who’s to be actually blamed?? For the commie’s it’s Marx’s father and mother and in the case of Mohammed his dad Abd-Allah. he didn’t have a mom i think. This when neither Marx’s father was a commie or mohammad’s dad a muslim.

    BTW what was the ideology that motivated the japanese to brutalise the chinese during WWII. What was the ideology of the tamils and sinhalese that they went at each other with such ferocity.What was the ideology of the european settlers that they massacred the native Indians or that of the australian settlers that they devastated the aborigine culture. What was the ideology of the pre modern hindus that they created the caste system with those in the bottom rung relegated to tasks such as cleaning away night soil and skinning dead cattle for centuries upon centuries upon centuries.

  2. Vinay
    December 4, 2011 at 12:38 AM

    @anand

    I’m sorry I didn’t meet your standards of compassion and mercy. I don’t know you in person so what those standards are exactly will never be clear.
    I’m glad however that you have shown mercy and compassion towards a dead 5 yr old who may not have been from one of your “Hindu” schools. Carry on like this and you may actually love mankind sans prejudices and thereby make your parents proud. And you want to report my “murders” to the police some of whom on this very blog were called “rogue officers” ? So seems you are finally learning some trust also.LOL

    And since you have been obliging me should I assume my writing skills are now upto scratch ??

  3. Anand
    December 4, 2011 at 12:32 AM

    Comrade LoneTamater,

    >>Why dont you teach compassion to the families of innocents killed by crpf ?

    The teaching of values is the responsibility primarily of one’s parents, Comrade. Have you been taught any?

    I ask this question because if the parent is a dirtbag himself — for example, ask anyone in Bomaby and they tell you he destroyed poor people’s homes to lick his bosses’ butts — can we expect better from his offspring?

    The Communist/Islamist theory is that people kill because of “oppression”. Ironically, this is the theory that killed 80 million people world-wide — read the Blackbook of Communism. But this theory is simply bogus. People kill because they are *indoctrinated* by murderous ideologies to kill. Gandhi didn’t have to kill anyone. The Tibetans are one of the most unfortunate people in the world. They are killing themselves in protest, not inflicting misery on others. Kashmiri pundits are sufering in silence. That is the reaction of a human being who was taught some basic values. OTOH, it is indoctrinated, blood-thirsty thugs who kill, relying on fanatics like you to justify that murder as response to “oppression”.

  4. Anand
    December 4, 2011 at 12:17 AM

    Comrade Vinay,

    I’m confirmed in my belief that your parents thought their responsibilities were discharged once they brought you into this world. That’s very unforttunate. I think parents’ true responsibilities lie in gorwing their children to become decent human beings, with a sense of responsibility of their own, with a faculty of reason, and with compassion towards other human beings around them.

    You can have “dissatisafcation” Comrade, but how difficult is it understand that “dissatisfaction” doesn’t give you any right to murder other people? Are you totally satisfied with everything, my JNU comrade? If not, please let me know who all you murdered so far because of your dissatisfaction, because I have a duty as a resposnible citizen to report murderers to police.

    I mean, I am genuinely trying to understand your endorsement of murder here, so please explain why is that almost **every week** there is a horrific story of Maoists murdering innocent poeple, bashing their skulls or cutting off their heads? Why do you think that’s a normal occurrence that should be expected? What is your larger idea behind justifying murders by Maoists by invoking other such alleged murders?

    Perhaps you can lay out a grand theory of “The Circumstance Under Which my Killing a 5-year Old is Perfectly In Order”, and we’ll take the discussion from there. On my part, I promise that I’ll keep my revulsion in control even as I struggle to hold a meaningful debate with you.

  5. Tima
    December 4, 2011 at 12:16 AM

    @Anand

    Why dont you teach compassion to the families of innocents killed by crpf ? An innocent girl was labelled as a call girl and when media brought it to light, the government transferred the case to CID. Why was she raped by your crpf and then killed ? Didnt you teach them compassion?

  6. Vinay
    December 4, 2011 at 12:11 AM

    @Anand

    You know I was 13 when the babri masjid was demolished and never understood what was going on. and its only now, tonight, that i came across a blow by blow account of the event on youtube. thought I’d share it with you.I’m almost sure you must have seen it. And the best part of it is, it offered a oure unadulterated hindu view to the issue.I’ll post only part 2 and if you are interested you can follow the rest.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gXLQWR-ikQ&feature=related

    I’ll also post part 5 and check out whose beside advani @7.47

  7. neelkanth
    December 4, 2011 at 12:00 AM

    >>So I’m going to read no more and no less than that.
    I knew you would say that, which is why I pointed out the second para, which points to the Raja Yoga passages, and all the other things I said.

    >>But I’m afraid I’m not sure what those “shockers” are which you refer to ?? perhaps you may care to explain.
    Your query to Ranger was one. Don’t ask me to explain.

  8. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 11:59 PM

    @Anand,

    I asked you a question. I didn’t stick a label on you. And to the best of my knowledge it is a fact that both the maoists and hindutvawadis blame the ruling government for their various dissatisfactions with the way India is right now.
    The maoist who is brutally tortured and killed by the Judum or the para military in a detention camp is a martyr for the maoists and the crpf chap killed in a maoist operation is a martyr for the government. All I hoped was that the number of such martyrs would be as low as possible.

  9. Anand
    December 3, 2011 at 11:46 PM

    Comrade Vinay,

    Let me guess: you’ll postulate that a habitual serial rapist is in “dissatisfaction with the female gender”, won’t you? You are capable of it Comrade.

    What has the 5-year-old — or for that matter, the cop earning 5000 rupees a month — got to do with anybody’s “dissatisfaction with Indian state”?

    Are you sane? I mean, like, did anybody ever in your entire life of 13 odd years teach you something called reason, and another thing called compassion!?

    You seem to be the baap of Comrade LoneTamater, figuratively speaking. Even he refrained so far from calling murderers martyrs, but perhaps he will learn from you in awe-struck admiration.

  10. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 11:43 PM

    @Neelkanth

    Your assessment is your prerogative, but as the line quotes vivekananda saying “Belief in evolution is among our Yogis and in the Sa¯m. khya philosophy.” and it gives a cross reference to verify the same. So I’m going to read no more and no less than that.
    In a world where beliefs are plentiful and varied, I’ve decided to join the ranks of those who believe that it is improper to believe unless sufficient evidence is at hand to justify the belief. LOL So maybe that is a bias I have towards “revealed” religions like hinduism and the abrahamics.
    But I’m afraid I’m not sure what those “shockers” are which you refer to ?? perhaps you may care to explain.

  11. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 11:31 PM

    @anand

    Do you look at the maoists as your counterparts in dissatisfaction with the Indian state ?
    Neither the Maoists nor the hindutva-wadis are satisfied with the country the way it is. One says the country has been handed over to the corporates and the upper castes while the other says the country is too damn secular and tolerant. And each one points to the other as the devil incarnate.
    Just like you pointed out the dead at maoist hands the maoists point out the dead at the hands of the para military and salwa judum to recruit into their ranks.At any rate the gloves are of one both sides it seems. Lets hope the number of martyrs is as low as possible.

  12. neelkanth
    December 3, 2011 at 11:18 PM

    Vinay,

    >>Pls. check line 4.
    I did read that. And I can only repeat to you what I wrote in the previous post.

    >>As a non hindu I’m trying to understand Hinduism
    I don’t think so. From your comments it seems more like you have already fit Hinduism into your biases and decided it is all rubbish. The result is that we get real shockers from you which you deliver with supreme confidence. They are such shockers that no one will spend time trying to correct you.

  13. Anand
    December 3, 2011 at 11:04 PM

    Comade LoneTomato,

    >>Therefore, you agree that nero is a killer who has blood of innocents on his hands.

    I’ll agree to ANYTHING if that can make a half-decent human being out of “people” like you, comrade. From whatever I know you are not a violent person yourself, except that you enjoy the murder of class enemies and of innocent Hindus, and endorse the shetering of murderers by traitorous dirtbags like Sen.

    Hot off the presses:

    “December 03, 2011 22:49 IST Ranchi: Eight persons, including a five-year-old boy and an 18-year-old girl, were killed when Maoists attacked the convoy of former Jharkhand Speaker and MP Inder Singh Namdhari on Saturday…”

    Now, if you “people” can be made to join the ranks of ordinary, decent, toiling millions, iamgine what a beautiful place the world will be? Devoid of hatred, and of justification for murder and of crooks who shelter murderers…

    Therefore, I’ll agree to anything, if in turn if you’ll primise to become a human being. Is that a deal?

  14. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 10:33 PM

    @Neelkanth

    I have copied the saem from the text: Pls. check line 4.

    “ Thus biological evolution was not somuch a struggle for survival as a gradual development from one stage to the next: “Our theory of evolution and of ¯ak¯a´sa and pr¯ana is exactly what . . . modern philosophers have . . . Belief in evolution is among our Yogis and in the Sa¯m. khya philosophy. For instance, Patan˜jali speaks of one species being changed into another by the infilling of nature” (Vivekananda 1964c, 298).”

    I did post my query in some seriousness. As a non hindu I’m trying to understand Hinduism and what it means for me living in a predominant Hindu society.

  15. neelkanth
    December 3, 2011 at 10:19 PM

    Vinay,

    >>vivekanand quoting samkhya as being the forerunners of the darwin’s theory

    I had read that page, and obviously we saw different things. The second para is basically the same as what he has spoken about in Raja Yoga in greater detail, and it is still not Sankhya. Anyway, if you wish to read that as evidence of Vivekananda seeking validation for the Sankhya school from a scientific theory, it is entirely up to you.
    For me, what he says about evolution and heridity basically lies outside the scope of evolutionary biology, and he more or less says so in Raja Yoga.

    >>The second link was only to point out the efforts which some hindus are putting in to glorify their religion.
    You don’t say. Like I said, perhaps he found nothing better in Hinduism to talk about.

    >>Thirdly that “bhashya” as you put it, was a mere query in response to “Ranger”
    What I find astonishing is that this query was in all seriousness. But there is a lot that I find astonishing in your comments.

  16. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 9:37 PM

    @Neelkanth

    Pls go to page 353 1st para for s specific reference of vivekanand quoting samkhya as being the forerunners of the darwin’s theory. Pls. read further for more.
    The second link was only to point out the efforts which some hindus are putting in to glorify their religion.
    Thirdly that “bhashya” as you put it, was a mere query in response to “Ranger” who was upset with socialism for taking away the profit motive.

  17. neelkanth
    December 3, 2011 at 8:19 PM

    Yes dear Vinay, I skimmed through the document and saw no such thing. In fact what I saw was a repetition of what he said in Raja Yoga.

    As for the second link, what can I say, the fellow perhaps found nothing better in Hinduism. I wouldn’t say that about you with this priceless little bhashya you blessed us with.

    BG: O Arjuna by spiritual intelligence discard fruitive actions which are certainly abominable and aspire for the refuge of the science of uniting theindividual consciousness with the Ultimate consciousness by this spiritual intelligence.Those impelled by fruitive results are wretched.”
    Vinay: Since we see Krishna speak out so forcefully against the profit motive can we call Krishna the vedic socialist??

    I am still digesting this one. Difficult to have conversations with you mate.

  18. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM

    @Neelkanth

    Did you check out the link I sent you for Vivekananda’s use of Samkhya as validation of theory of evolution by Hindu scriptures ???

  19. neelkanth
    December 3, 2011 at 7:46 PM

    Ranger:

    >>Also, there is the question of space. It is very difficult, even impossible, to build Wal-Marts in every colony.

    And the question of land prices. So most of these hypermarts would be on the outskirts of major cities. I’m no expert on this subject, but it doesn’t look like much of an issue economically speaking. Don’t see any reason to be upset.

  20. neelkanth
    December 3, 2011 at 7:36 PM

    @Nash,

    >>have come to different conclusions

    Not really. You should read the book.

  21. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 12:07 PM

    @All

    My my my whats the world coming to ? A commie speech in the US of A

  22. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM

    @ItAcHi

    he isn’t saying anything that goel or ram swarup or arun shourie or the others haven’t said before. So whats there to negate attributable to elst in any case.
    He is the “rational westerner” in their group to add to some international flavour to their cause. And in his capacity as “rational westerner” he has being paying his party dues by reminding Hindus that they were a very peaceful society until the muslims came along and brutalised them and vanquished their culture even as he fails to remind the very same Hindus that numerous Hindu rulers themselves were vandals of the temples of rival kingdoms, that they fought unending internecine wars among themselves and made numerous political and military alliances with the Muslim rulers and that even after sixty years of united india they remain divided over language, caste and region. LOL
    If you think demolition of the babri masjid was an act of solidarity then I’m sure demolition of some mosques in pakistan should even further increase that solidarity..what say.
    In any civilised society governed by rule of law, its the prevailing constitution that decides who is or is not a citizen. Not the personal whims and fancies of the populace, in which case society no longer remains “civilised” but transforms into a “vigilante” society. In any case the constitution, which you so detest, allows you to remove from power the congress in a peaceful manner without resorting to revolution by means of the ballot.
    Mr. Elst has a career to build as a historian and the janmabhoomi issue offers him the perfect foil to do just that. He sympathises with the hindus in india and back in europe speaks about how christianity and the christian churches suffered at the hands of the muslims even as he is fully aware of the demolition of churches in mangalore and orissa at the hands of the VHP/RSS whom he fully supports. LOL
    If you want to accord “worthy” status onto such an individual thats entirely your call. If as a “secular humanist” who places humanity above all else makes me anti-hindu, then so be it.
    And as for “honest criticism” of hinduism, well, don’t expect it from elst at any rate. LOL

  23. Tima
    December 3, 2011 at 11:53 AM

    @Sister Itachi

    Please concentrate on GMAT and GRE. US consulate in chennai is waiting for your arrival at their doorstep eagerly. I understand the family pressures on you. Good luck.

  24. Tima
    December 3, 2011 at 11:51 AM

    @Gink Gopal

    You accuse me of parrotting my white masters but it is you people who want validation from the white men. Be it elst or gautier, you quote to justify your hatred for muslims and islam. I had already given how AOL sponsors gautiers travel all over India. No one here has given me a answer why they are doing it and the other chap elst is hypocrite because when questioned of his right wing leanings (catholic church) he ran away from that gathering.

    @Arvind

    Are you demented ? Marxism and christanity has no connection. How does being a marxist make one christian ? Communism doesnt believe in any religion. Stop this sham.

    @CC

    Go and tell to your co-brother rowdy who idolises US how people in chicago , NJ want to kick out wal-mart from their neighborhood. If sonia who married rajiv is still a foreigner then you need brain scan.

  25. ItAcHi
    December 3, 2011 at 11:17 AM

    I agree Elst quotes Sitaram a lot in his work. How does that negate what he is saying?

    “Secondly as regards janmabhoomi, he disagrees with the VHP/RSS contention that rama was …..” so? I never said he was a VHP agent, I said he has helped hindus a lot.
    As regards Janmabhoomi, I told my stand earlier. It is an act of hindu-muslim solidarity.
    “Thirdly sonia maino legally married an indian i.e rajiv gandhi and earned her citizenship after having fulfilled all criteria in the indian constitution. If you still choose to see her as “foreigner” then you are anti constitutional.”
    > The problem with sonia is that she is not just a foreigner. She is a fraud. The problem with you is that you resort to words like “anti-constitutional” in a discussion which doesnt warrant it so that by some clever wordplay, you manage to push forward your thoughts as a valid arguement.

    “Koenraad on the other hand is definitely a foreigner, who knows better than to criticise hindu society “.. Citizenship alone is not the criteria to measure worthiness which is why sonia,rahul etc continue to be hated by the hindu masses,contrary to what you think.(Kindly dont quote some BJP leader in youtube saying sonia is a foreigner hence she must quit : you know perfectly well what I mean). And your idea that he just settled down one day in India to have a jolly old time playing around with hindu sentiments, is something that would come straight out of my communist friends.

    “And lastly offering counterviews to the VHP/RSS makes me a sinner then I’m not in a hurry to share heaven with these guys at any rate.LOL”

    It doesnt make you a sinner.Neither would honest criticism of Hinduism. What makes you think so buddy?

  26. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 9:59 AM

    @ItAcHi

    Firstly Elst isn’t saying anything that sitaram goel hasn’t said earlier. His take on islam in India is basically a facsimile of goel’s work with his own little spin added to it.
    Secondly as regards janmabhoomi, he disagrees with the VHP/RSS contention that rama was born in the same place as the mosque or that a “rama temple” existed at the same spot. He says that a “hindu structure” existed as that spot which was demolished to make way for the mosque. The ASI report which Koenraad refers to as being his source interestingly doesn’t conclude that a mosque was built after demolishing a pre existing structure. It merely concludes that as many as three non islamic structure existed on the same place as the mosque. Koenraad further says the spot is on a hillock which overlooks ayodhya making it the most likely spot for a ram temple. But for that very same reason it could have been the best place to build any kind of religious structure.
    Thirdly sonia maino legally married an indian i.e rajiv gandhi and earned her citizenship after having fulfilled all criteria in the indian constitution. If you still choose to see her as “foreigner” then you are anti constitutional. And that would put you in the class of either the right wingers who want a religious theocracy or a maoist who want a communist society.Koenraad on the other hand is definitely a foreigner, who knows better than to criticise hindu society seeing as he has much more populairty here than in his native belgium.
    And lastly offering counterviews to the VHP/RSS makes me a sinner then I’m not in a hurry to share heaven with these guys at any rate.LOL

  27. ItAcHi
    December 3, 2011 at 9:13 AM

    “Speaking of Elst it seems he is using the hindus as a stick to beat the Muslims with. I used to wonder how come this person is so highly interested in the janmabhoomi issue but after seeing and hearing his stuff it seems atleast to me it is highly probable that its hatred of islam thats motivating him to speak in favour of the hindus.”

    > kashmir .. ayodhya .. Godhra … Koenraad Elst. What seems to be the problem now? Anyone critical of Islam is a sinner, I suppose. His view is the same that I endorse, that muslims are actually good people wanting to lead a normal life like any other, but Islam gets in the way between them and a peaceful integrated society.

    I had eariler asked Tima to leave extremist Islam, ask the most educated muslim what is the gravest sin for a muslim to commit, 1. Rape 2. Murder 3. Polytheism

    When an ideology is rooted in such grounds,critics and opponents will arise. He may or may not be supporting hindus for hindus sake – I dont know – but he is doing a great service to hindus by bringing out some hard hitting truths and spreading general awareness about political islam to otherwise gullible hindus who get tricked very easily.

  28. ItAcHi
    December 3, 2011 at 9:01 AM

    @Sister Itachi

    What is your POV on pragya and purohit ? Do you agree with the view prevalent here on this forum they are modern day saints but the evil empire has put them behind bars for crimes not committed ?

    Sister, my POV on you is that you seemed to have suffered a mental breakdown. I am afraid that if you dont see a psychatrist in your vicinity, your suppressed hatred for the brahmins can lead to potential serious harm for people in your area. Pretty soon you will be sitting alongside with pragya and purohit in CBI interrogation cells and then it wont matter to you what my POV is on them.

  29. CC
    December 3, 2011 at 6:43 AM

    Wow imagine the bling value the “white” presence of mata Sonia and her unfinished product Rahul add to the Dynasty and the bloodhounds that haunt this blog.

  30. Arvind
    December 3, 2011 at 6:04 AM

    Tima exudes stupidity once again. LTTE was a self-described Marxist-Leninist group. Its leaders were Christians. Marxist-Leninist groups are not Hindu groups. You are too dumb to know that they described themselves as Marxist-Leninist and parrot the lies of your White masters.

  31. Jack
    December 3, 2011 at 4:20 AM

    This may not be directly related, but I think it is worthy reading:

    After Cancelling India Summit, Chinese Regime Says India Did It

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/after-cancelling-india-summit-chinese-regime-says-india-did-it-151318.html

    The media inside China all have the same voice, of course, that is the government’s voice. China has a huge intranet and people cannot read freely the info that can be seen by anyone else in the world. That is alarming..

  32. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 2:26 AM

    @Tima

    And well it can’t be denied that his “white” presence also adds bling value to the VHP/RSS case. This is something so called the “pizza effect” by aghehananda bharati.

  33. Vinay
    December 3, 2011 at 2:22 AM

    @Tima

    Speaking of Elst it seems he is using the hindus as a stick to beat the Muslims with. I used to wonder how come this person is so highly interested in the janmabhoomi issue but after seeing and hearing his stuff it seems atleast to me it is highly probable that its hatred of islam thats motivating him to speak in favour of the hindus.
    In fact he isnt in favour of the catholic church accomodating the muslims even when he knows that the evangelicals of the church are hated almost as much by the VHP/RSS. In this link he uses the most conciliatory terms with the catholic church while in interviews to the hindu right wing he questions whether jesus was really born or not.LOL
    http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/ayodhya/nazareth.html

    So all in all this guy is running with the hare and hunting with the hounds in pursuit of his objective of obliterating islam.

  34. Gopal
    December 3, 2011 at 1:24 AM

    @tick tima,
    No wonder you don’t have a proof for your buffoonery claim. Now why should the pedo prophet or his followers prove that the moon god indeed asked him to screw tick tima? Shouldn’t the burden of disproving be on us, the poor kafirs. ha ha ha ha
    Even the ‘fraudster’ Elst couldn’t explain how the unknown tick tima and the well known outlook mehta were able to write the same sentence, word for word. so will you be kind enough to explain us this greatest mystery of porkis?

  35. Tima
    December 3, 2011 at 12:29 AM

    @Gink Gopal

    No wonder you seem so jealous of those who frequent such parties. Instead of asking me, why dont you ask your fraudster idol elst about it. He ran away like a mouse.

  36. Gopal
    December 3, 2011 at 12:26 AM

    “why don’t you meet your party bosses ”

    tima baby, instead of advising Ranger, why don’t you advice that porker keyani not to sell poor porkis to americans?

  37. Gopal
    December 3, 2011 at 12:22 AM

    I empathize with you that you are not called at those parties. Unfortunately for you, they dont tolerate riff raffs and rotten rascals like you whose favorite past time is to abuse parents.

    tima baby, expect mullahs no one would be interested in such salats. You didn’t yet answer my question. Are you and outlook mehta are joined to the hip in that Delhi farmhouse salat that both of you produced the same sentence, word for word. Or, by you nobel prize winning proving process the burden is on me to prove that you and mehta were not joined to the hip in that salat.

  38. Tima
    December 3, 2011 at 12:04 AM

    @Rowdy Ranger

    All your points on FDI are pointless because your party is vehemently opposed to it. Instead of praising wal-mart for their contribution to society and upliftment of poor on a blog, why don’t you meet your party bosses like uma bharati or ravi shankar who spew venom as if wal-mart will come and personally take their personal weath away ? Can you convince them to agree to your views ?

  39. Tima
    December 2, 2011 at 11:55 PM

    @Sister Itachi

    What is your POV on pragya and purohit ? Do you agree with the view prevalent here on this forum they are modern day saints but the evil empire has put them behind bars for crimes not committed ?

  40. Tima
    December 2, 2011 at 11:53 PM

    @Gopal

    I empathize with you that you are not called at those parties. Unfortunately for you, they dont tolerate riff raffs and rotten rascals like you whose favorite past time is to abuse parents.

  41. Gopal
    December 2, 2011 at 11:51 PM

    ““Have you been loitering near the lavatories near your local mosque gopa, while the muslims were at prayer ??”

    so vinay boy you are agreeing that mullahs are eating shit in the name of salat inside a complex full of lavatories.

  42. Gopal
    December 2, 2011 at 11:48 PM

    tima baby, your alter ego vinay boy said that the reason for verbal diarrhea is that you mullahs do the salat in lavatories. Now my question to you is what you and outlook mehta were doing in that farm house lavatory that both of you produced the same sentence, word for word.

  43. Gopal
    December 2, 2011 at 11:40 PM

    “Have you been loitering near the lavatories near your local mosque gopa, while the muslims were at prayer ??”

    Oh vinay boy, I don’t have to go that far, I can see it in the comments by a dimwit going by the name vinay/tima on Sandeep’s blog. When you do the salat in lavatories, offcourse the shit would be bouncing all over you, ha ha ha ha ha

  44. Tima
    December 2, 2011 at 11:31 PM

    @CC

    I shall convey your wishes to kani. Perhaps you can do me a favor in return by telling your boss uma bharati that your co-brother here called rowdy ranger is supporting FDI and hence she should not threaten to burn those stores.

  45. Tima
    December 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM

    @Anand

    Therefore, you agree that nero is a killer who has blood of innocents on his hands. Flame-bait is when you keep on parroting about NATO attack.

  46. Vinay
    December 2, 2011 at 11:23 PM

    Gopal says:
    December 2, 2011 at 9:27 PM
    “Some new insights from your sadhana today I see. Which sadhana is this ?? maybe you could name it “visualise shit in someone’s mouth” sadhana and dedicate it to sandeeps blog.”

    no vinay boy, it is the salat which has been so well explained in the great qurand and that which is followed to the Ts by the faithful all over the world ha ha ha ha

    Have you been loitering near the lavatories near your local mosque gopa, while the muslims were at prayer ??

  47. ItAcHi
    December 2, 2011 at 11:18 PM

    apparently brother vinay is having the time of his life playing around with other commentors and wasting their time in clever tit for tat dialogues having no productive output, while choosing to ignore what I asked of him.

  48. Vinay
    December 2, 2011 at 10:06 PM

    @Anand,

    And it took you so many posts and so much reading to realise that my writing skills weren’t upto the standards of the “Hindu” school you so fulsomely praised. Yes the very one affiliated to the HCEE where the rich and powerful send their kids to learn Hindu values a.ka. enlightenment.
    So if you are from one such school where “enlightenment” is taught then at the very least your wife can expect not to get raped by her drunk husband even as her husband may have selected her using the “you know what” test handed from generation to generation.

  49. CC
    December 2, 2011 at 9:37 PM

    Thug Tima, it is not nice of you to still be loitering around here spewing poison. Your best friend Kanimole is out from Tihar. Once you’re done helping her plot the next corruption deal to loot India, you can go back and bunk with Kasab, so that he won’t get too jealous.

    Next time, ask your mata Sonia to treat the Dravidians with the brown skin better than she did this time. Meanwhile let’s hope the criminal un-finished product Rahul Gnadhi is not putting his foot in mouth again…

  50. Anand
    December 2, 2011 at 9:33 PM

    Hello Comrade Vinay,

    You are dazzling me with your brilliance, Comrade, when you are not LOLing with your derriere. I’m not able to see, or read. That text in unending paragrpahs and the innovative line breaks seems to contain some unanswerable logic, except I’m not able to get throuh the voluminous dump. Looks like code language.

    Look, why don’t you learn from Comrade LoneTamater? He makes short, pithy comments. I’m actually his fan in that respect. Apparently he’s a writer of middling talent who wrote a book or two which he himself really wrote that sold well in libraries. Soon as you learn good writing manners from your senior comrade, I shall be happy to oblige you too.

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