The Snakes in Our Own Grass

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What’s common to LeT, JuD, Yasin Malik, and Hafiz Saeed? All are terrorists who’ve vowed the destruction of India and have at various points, taken violent steps to make this intention clear. What else is common to LeT, JuD, Yasin Malik, and Hafiz Saeed? All of ‘em terrorists have mourned the execution of the homegrown traitor cum terror mastermind, Afzal Guru.

Guess who all else share the aforementioned commonality?

  • Anand Patwardhan—One of the early scavengers of the Gujarat riots, he washed India’s dirty linen in the US and elsewhere in the world and became famous and wealthy.
  • Angana Chatterji—But of course. With a Godfather like Fai, her support for anybody who wages war against India is both guaranteed and obvious. 
  • Arundhati Roy—Also known as Genocide Suzie. Enough said.
  • Asghar Ali Engineer—That this chronicler of communal riots in India has consistently failed to notice even one dead Hindu in a communal riot should support Afzal Guru is again unsurprising.
  • Binayak Sen—The kindly doctor who tends to the bloodthirsty Maoists who’ve declared war against the Indian state.
  • D.N. Jha—He who finds a place in Arun Shourie’s list of Eminent Historians.
  • Farzana Versey—Sigh.
  • Harsh Mander—THE CEO of the Gujarat Riots Cottage Industry naturally doing his bit to further that vile hate-India project.
  • Irfan Habib—See the entry under “D.N. Jha.”
  • Omar Abdullah—The Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir playing politics as usual.
  • Prashant Bhushan—He who also led that fake crusade against corruption conveniently blinding his eyes to the greater threat of Islamic terrorism and the even greater threat of homegrown support for it.
  • Siddharth Varadarajan—If his ex-boss and predecessor was nicknamed Mount Road Marx, this guy has ripped the last strand of the façade of decency that remained in the Hindu under N.Ram. 
  • Vinod K Jose—He who wrote that putrid piece profiling Narendra Modi as Hitler in the Caravan magazine.

This is a partial list of some prominent names that have signed the mercy petition for Afzal Guru and/or shed tears and/or outraged over Guru’s deserved hanging. The complete list of the petition-signers (347 eminences) is available here.

Let’s look at yet another mercy petition. Here’s a partial list of its notable signatories.

  • Harsh Mander
  • Aakar Patel
  • Shivam Vij—Back in the early days of blogging, a certain blogger once said that if there’s a single excuse to justify ragging, it is Shivam Vij. I tend to agree with that blogger.
  • Nandita Das
  • S. Anand—Full name, Stephen Anand. Used to be with Outlook. Also used to be a regular poison-spewer at that hate site called Dalitstan.org.
  • Dilip D’Souza—A highly polished version of of S. Anand. Check my blog archives for a fuller profile.
  • Mahashweta Devi
  • Aruna Roy—Fellow traveller of Harsh Mander. Also his colleague at the NAC.
  • Achin Vainik—Old coot who did much to derail the discourse during the Ram Janmabhoomi days.

The complete list of 203 eminences is available here. This happens to be the list of signatories to for Ajmal Kasab’s mercy petition.

See how it gets better and better? First, their hearts bled for the 2003 Parliament attack conspirator, Afzal Guru. Not merely that. They declared him innocent and waged a pitched battle to secure his release. When the Supreme Court showed them the middle finger, they changed tactics and clamoured for clemency. If clemency was granted, one can only imagine the kind of reception this now-dead terrorist would’ve received. Hell, he’d have even become an MP. And then, the cockles of their oh-so-compassionate hearts warmed for a terrorist who the nation had seen in action on 26/11—wielding an automatic and mowing down dozens of innocent people, all part of the Holy War Kasab and his comrades launched against India. Like I said, better and better.

And notice that all of ‘em signatories are Indians. Notice also that several of them occupy extremely powerful positions in Government and in other spheres of public life. And they have, over the years, steadily dropped their pretence of being secular or fair-minded or whatever other nonsense, and have revealed themselves for what they are: Nth grade opportunists who wouldn’t think twice before betraying the nation.

What’s even worse is that many of them have been exposed—Binayak Sen, Harsh Mander, Angana Chatterji, and Arundhati Roy figure prominently in this list—doing far worse things than merely signing mercy petitions or shedding tears for dead terrorists. The charlatanism of Fai’s Minions is a singular case in point. Yet nothing has happened to them, a fact that gives a Genocide Suzie the gumption to pen yet another toxic piece damning Indian democracy for hanging a terrorist. That the piece appeared in the Siddharth Varadajan-led The Hindu is entirely fitting. If The Hindu was rumoured to be India’s People’s Daily under N.Ram, one wonders whether it’s a limb of Pakistan’s official propaganda machine under Sid Varadarajan. You’ll know it isn’t an exaggeration the moment you read how this Mephistophelean paper elevated Afzal Guru to Mahatmahood courtesy a deviant named Gaurav Vivek Bhatnagar. More importantly, let’s not forget that Siddharth Varadarajan was on the esteemed-guest list of Ghulam Nabi Fai.

It is understandable in many cases that death-penalty decriers come from a position of extreme humaneness. One can forgive them for their naiveté. However, what is the nature, character, and record of the people our powerful eminences support? They’re brainwashed terrorists of an enemy nation, which has a not-so-secret project to destroy India. It’s not that these worthies merely sign mercy petitions. What’s worse, worrying, and dangerous is the fact that they condemn the Indian state for hanging these human weapons of terror launched by the enemy nation just next door.

Which makes these terrorist-mercy-seeking perverts more dangerous than the terrorists themselves. We at least have some basic mechanisms to monitor the plans and activities of terrorists. But what mechanism do we put in place to check the hundreds of Harsh Manders, Angana Chatterjis and the rest who it appears are beyond the reach of law? What can our law enforcement agencies do when a Harsh Mander takes his orders directly from and enjoys the complete confidence of the Super Prime Minister herself? More importantly, why isn’t anyone in the Government or Opposition, why hasn’t anyone prominent in public life woken up to the fact that there’s something seriously wrong when these luminaries join terror outfits like LeT and JuD in spirit in mourning the death of Afzal Guru and Ajmal Kasab? Does this also mean that these bleeding hearts will echo the Jihadist war cry of LeT and JuD who have sworn to avenge Kasab’s death? Doesn’t the fact that these Jihadi agencies mourn Afzal Guru’s death prove that they consider him one of their own? Equally, doesn’t this same fact prove that Arundhati Roy et al’s disgusting book (The strange case of the Parliament attack) and similar articles defending Afzal Guru and castigating the Indian state are packs of lies?

How did we get to this mad, sad, and dangerous state of affairs? I leave the answer to your intelligence. But what’s clear is this, said so well by the redoubtable Barbar Indian:

[The Fai Minions’] investigation might provide vital clues as to whether the Congress establishment has remained merely corrupt and exploitative or has transitioned into the dark zone of open subversion.

The answer obviously veers dangerously close to a “yes.” The Congress establishment may directly not engage in subversion against the very nation whose sovereignty, unity, and integrity it has sworn to uphold, preserve and protect. However, it does two very disturbing things. One, it allows patently anti-national people to wield enormous power almost with impunity. Two, when they are caught acting with impunity, it turns a blind eye. Unpunished evil is an encouragement to perpetuate greater evil.

As we notice, the envelope has already been pushed way too far. The ruling class by its silent acquiescence, continues to support any effort in that direction. Nobody is immune to temptation in an ecosystem where the rewards are enormous because addition happens exponentially. Former Chief Justices, Prime Minister’s media advisers, chief editors of newspapers…every top job adds its bit to this subversion of Indian national interest.

The historical parallels are striking. Every minister and every general who betrayed a powerful king did his bit to enable the conquest of India piece by piece until the whole was swallowed.

76 comments for “The Snakes in Our Own Grass

  1. Raj
    March 4, 2013 at 10:33 AM

    From this week’s outlook: http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?284084

    I know Sandeep has written on Bhyrappa before, but would be nice if he could weigh in given how a certain booker prize winner is framing the argument here.

    In addition, I haven’t gotten around to reading Arvind Adiga’s “magnum opus” (The White Tiger), but the very premise of an Indian writing to the Chinese premier about showing the “real India” behind all the supposed smoke and mirrors is ironic given the potemkin ship of state that is the prc. Then again, he does have to squawk for his supper like all the other parrots.

  2. Anonymous
    March 2, 2013 at 6:53 PM

    A good comment on Karnad.in The Hindu

    V.S.Naipaul, Rabindra Nath Tagore and now Shah. Is Karnad becoming the
    Digvijay Singh of Literature?

    from: N.S.Rajan

  3. anonymous
    March 2, 2013 at 6:23 AM
  4. raj
    February 26, 2013 at 12:57 PM

    cricfan–though we only do dialectical/intellectual battle here, our history is a prime example of how the best defense is offense.

    If one plays defense all the time, the enemy is bound to score a goal or two just by blind luck/probability (i.e sindh, prithviraj)–and they don’t practice the rules of warfare that our kshatriyas observed when they win (see what happened to vijaynagar and countless other previously victorious hindu cities). Only the marathas, sikhs, and at a tactical level, the ahoms of assam learned this well, adapted and improved the antiquated practices, and took the initiative against adharmic forces–see the difference.

    That’s why it’s important to take them on on their turf (in this case, secularism, human rights, their own practices/history, etc) instead of forever defending their countless charges and never-ending invented nonsense. In a phrase (to borrow from Rajiv Malhotra), do purva paksa and apply. This lesson should be imbibed by all hindus.

    In the mean time, another tragic anniversary passes:
    http://dawn.com/2013/02/24/another-february-24/

  5. February 26, 2013 at 9:42 AM

    Interesting pattern. Missionaries and Subcontinental seculars are well trained to go on the offensive on home-ground topics with their gospel / “secular smriti” driven line of attack. When it comes to defense – and this is vivid when outside their comfort zone and facing a trained opponent having equal lung capacity, this blinkered behavior is of no help to them, they’ve fallen apart v quickly.

  6. raj
    February 26, 2013 at 8:15 AM

    “You cannot resist the temptation of talking about rape. Your language is that of a deranged, base criminal. What good do you and those like you bring? I am done with you.”

    Ah yes, the adhom laden sign off comment, last bastion of the intellectually defeated. I hope your ego did not suffer too much trauma, Vasu. Either way, let’s summarize how your hypocrisy has been exposed to all our readers.

    1.You pretended like you understood the epics talking of nonviolence–only to be systematically deconstructed by those who understood it better, and so, were told how violence to defend dharma and protect the weak (i.e. ostensible rape victims) is justified by the Mahabharat and other hindu scriptures. This is not contradiction, as the padres would tell you, but common sense.

    2. You feigned to be a man/woman/eunuch of conscience, but the reality is, you care nothing for the thousands of sindhi hindu woman who have been raped, forcibly converted and force-prostituted by pakistani fundoos. Now you act like me merely mentioning rape victims is somehow indicative of criminal nature, when the reality is, it’s the depraved, willful ignorance of leftists like you who refuse to give voice to the voiceless that are truly evil.

    3. You actually claim to be a real Indian and yet have the gall compare the palestinians with the kashmiris–even worse, you had an additional line about kashmiri pandits. Anyone with half a brain can plainly see that the palestinians were given a fair deal by Ehud Barak in 2000, but refused it because they wanted the whole pie, and wanted to push the Israelis into the sea. Kashmiri hindus can’t even get a plot of land that is their own in Kashmir (forget “panun kashmir”).

    Kashmiris are ethnically Indian–and the very existence of the Kashmiri pandits demonstrates the validity of Indian claims to that land–particularly in the wake of Pakistan’s genocide of its hindus. Your failed attempt to wriggle out of your self-wrought web through random and unrelated mentions of Iraq bound your more tightly in your own trap.

    4. When you were cornered on all this issues, you elected to run away like the moral coward that you are, since your duplicity and hypocrisy and disregard for hindu life has been duly exposed. It must truly be the kali yuga for evil to couch itself in such soothing terms as “ahimsa” and “human rights” and “dharma for all”. Dharma begins at home. That you can’t see that the duty to protect that all hindus bear means we have a responsibility to our own people before others demonstrates how you belong firmly in the Nilanjana Roy school of “scholarship”.

    So in summation, the lesson for our audience is that fools and pretenders like amarshiam and vasu must be challenged. The intellectual thrashing is even more effective if you use their own preferred terminology against them–see how quickly their house of cards falls upon them.

    In the end, it becomes patently apparently to even the most disinterested observer, that for these leftist/pseudo secs, “all are equal, but some are more equal than others”.

  7. February 26, 2013 at 7:25 AM

    @raj,

    You cannot resist the temptation of talking about rape. Your language is that of a deranged, base criminal. What good do you and those like you bring? I am done with you.

  8. raj
    February 26, 2013 at 6:40 AM

    For someone who pays lip service to equality, you conveniently sidestep UCC*–this is the cornerstone of real secularism.

  9. raj
    February 26, 2013 at 5:54 AM

    ” It’s your double standards that are exposed. ”

    Haha, Vasu, you’re really running out of gas aren’t you?

    If your sister is being raped, do you worry about the fact that your neighbor’s house is on fire?

    “What did you do to lobby ”

    What have you done to lobby for the rights of hindus in pakistan? What have you done to lobby for the rights of hindus in kashmir? What have you done to lobby for the rights of hindus in the gulf?

    Leave aside that, what have you done to lobby for a UCC? For someone who pays lip service to equality–this is the corner stone of real secularism. But of course, your hypocrisy would be exposed, so you try to distract with an 8 year old war that had nothing to do with India. That’s how intellectually bankrupt your ideology is–”All are equal, some are more equal than others”.

    When all this is going on in the world, confused leftists who don’t know right from wrong, like you, cry rivers over the plight of the very middle eastern fundamentalists who oppress our people. I cannot think of a more ridiculous tamasha.

    “the incessant harping about Jews’ right to live there (recognized by almost all) only servers as
    a smoke screen to cover the Zionists’ aggressive, inhuman and apartheid policies.”

    take a look at the textbooks the bbc recently exposed in british madrassas–one look alone will demonstrate to anyone with sight whether this right to live–let alone live there—is even recognized by your saudi masters.

    “Has it occurred you that your own words can strike you back in your face with full force?”

    Do you have any sense of self-awareness?

    You’re the one who’s been harping on the palestinians and even had the temerity to compare kashmiris with them. Now that the utter absence of any logic in your position has been exposed, you’re now posturing as though you have a leg to stand on. The reality is, the lives of non-muslims obviously have no value to you–irrespective of the etymology of your preferred handle. It’s clear for all to see.

    Only an imbecile will weep over the trials of those who treat them like dirt–all the more so when his own house is under attack and under siege from all sides. It’s India’s misfortune to be burdened by such misguided bleeding hearts as you, who don’t have the time of day for their own sisters.

  10. February 25, 2013 at 1:58 PM

    @Amit and Raj,

    I don’t understand why I have to include all issues in the same thread. Saudi regime (and its sister kingdoms) are basically protected by the US for their hydrocarbon and geopolitical interests. We know during the illegal Iraq war waged by the “Coalition Of The Willing” (UN refused to be part of that illegal monstrosity) the operating phrase was “Freedom deficit countries” and “democracy deficit countries”. It’s as though only Iraq qualifies to be one. Let’s accept it. It’s not my double standards. It’s your double standards that are exposed. What did you do to lobby US into influencing to bring in democratic reforms in the Gulf kingdoms? If you can’t lobby, what was your (even if muted) reaction?
    I think change comes partly internally owing to rising people’s discontent and from outside pressure applied by western powers for continued friendly relations or when oil economies change drastically when world invents alternatives to fossil fuels. It won’t come by pontificating against me for my non-existent double-standards. Don’t put up a straw-man and demolish it. As regards the inhuman treatment meted out to South Asian workers in some Gulf countries, the host countries should negotiate or change their laws. I think Malaysia already did something. India put an age limit. Sri Lanka – after learning a lesson from a recent beheading of a young SL girl in SA – is on course.

    Next, the incessant harping about Jews’ right to live there (recognized by almost all) only servers as
    a smoke screen to cover the Zionists’ aggressive, inhuman and apartheid policies. An eminent ex-president of US like Jimmy Carter spoke some reasonable words and got – you know what – “anti Semite” smear on his face. That’s reality. Face it. If you don’t, it’s you that are exposing your double standards. Has it occurred you that your own words can strike you back in your face with full force?

  11. raj
    February 25, 2013 at 3:05 AM

    @ Vasu, Amit answered most of your meandering mental peregrinations in my absence, so I’ll just touch on a few key points.

    “I don’t understand why wahabbism in another part of West Asis has anything to do with mostly secular struggle of Palestinians. ”

    Yes, the Saudis have absolutely no connection to palestine. The gulf states, OIC, and the middle east have nothing to do with financing or ideology or political support. It’s also telling that you couldn’t even referred to the saudis with the analog you use for the Israelis.

    “It’s about our rights to live in our ancient land.”

    Israelis have the same and even more ancient claim.

    “While it’s true that Arab citizens in Israeli green zone have a slightly better life, there’s discrimination against them. ”

    Come back when it’s anything close to how subcontinentals are treated in UAE and Saudi.

    “Israel is not exactly a liberal/democratic state as it’s cranked up to be. Their govt. doesn’t tolerate criticism. ”

    People of all faiths can practice freely in Israel (holy land of the jews)–can they do so in Saudi?

    “I am against those “temporary marriages”. It’s a law and order issue or one of UCC.”

    Doesn’t change the reality that those buggers treat our people the way they do. It also speaks volumes that you have all the time in the world for the palestinians, but don’t have the voice to speak up for the silenced subcontinental women (and yes, even girls) who must suffer the indignities inflicted on them by these desert barbarians. I guess amarshiam’s motto is enshrined in your own coat of arms: “All are equal, some are more equal than others”

    ” I am a bit tired of this Israel-Palestine discussion.”

    Translation: I recognize I don’t have a leg to stand on, and my cookie cutter victim-hood narrative isn’t going to cut it.

  12. Amit
    February 25, 2013 at 12:07 AM

    “Did US expel Chomsky who has been an untiring critic of US foreign policy?”

    I’m glad that you have one good thing to say about that capitalist/imperialist/Israel-supporting bastion of evil. :D

  13. Amit
    February 25, 2013 at 12:04 AM

    “Raise the bar when you talk about a liberal democracy. Picking totalitarian regimes to compare ISrael against is not a proper way to benchmark it.”

    Vasu, so you accept your hypocrisy and double-standards? Thanks – that’s exactly what I was pointing out.

    You’re happy with the status quo in the totalitarian regimes (viz. no criticism, silence), do not raise the bar for them to become liberal secular democracies which abrogate despicable and outdated “racist” concepts like “kaffir” as basis of their society and laws, but hold liberal democracies to ever-raising higher bar…based on what? Just because a liberal democracy is a liberal democracy doesn’t imply that
    (a) it is free from fault, and
    (b) it won’t protect its interests (or those of its citizens) to some extent, or
    (c) will have infinite tolerance and infinite freedom.

    I think you may have some misconceived ideas as to what it means to be a liberal democracy. It doesn’t mean that there won’t be a single law or a single incident putting some curbs on freedom. UK also barred Dutch politician Geert Wilders from entering its borders – doesn’t mean that UK stopped being a liberal democracy.

    In Germany and some European countries, denial of Holocaust is punishable by law, but only an insane person will argue that this law is proof that Germany is not as liberal as it is made out to be, or is less liberal than Islamic countries. That’s your utopia, your idea of some perfect society which is not possible. Ironically, it is “atheist” leftists who subscribe to this “Thy Kingdom Come…on Earth as it is in Heaven” concept.

    Yup- racial profiling, as in Israeli Arabs are exempt from conscription.

  14. February 24, 2013 at 10:58 PM

    @Amit,

    Raise the bar when you talk about a liberal democracy. Picking totalitarian regimes to compare ISrael against is not a proper way to benchmark it. It is a Jewsih state with racial/ethnic profiling being legal. Compare that with liberal ethos of US. Would you do that? You know Israel barred (for some years, may be 10) Norman Finkelstein for his not-so-pro-Zionist writings and Gunter Grass for his critical “poem” and harassed Ilan Pappe. Did US expel Chomsky who has been an untiring critic of US foreign policy?

    I am absolutely tired of this Israel-Palestine thing. It’s a hot button issue!

  15. Amit
    February 24, 2013 at 10:18 PM

    “Israel is not exactly a liberal/democratic state as it’s cranked up to be.”

    Wow. Such harsh words for the parliamentary democratic system of government in Israel, and not a single word for the oppressive regimes that surround it. Why such blatant double-standards, O World Citizen?

    “Their govt. doesn’t tolerate criticism. Even a word of critiism against their policies by anyone invites you the label of “anti Semite”.”

    How many people, who criticized the government, has the government of Israel thrown into jail or killed or threatened to kill? Whereas the list of people killed in recent years – or who received death-threats – just for criticizing the great and amazing Religion of Peace and exercising their right of free speech can easily fill a few pages. BTW, I’m talking of western democracies, not Islamic countries.

    Maybe as a global citizen, you should apply one rule and one standard to all countries and peoples, instead of criticizing Israel (and other democratic countries) for labeling critics, while remaining silent for any lack of freedom and wanton killings in Islamic countries. This is exactly the mind-set which has resulted in the “secularism” of India – justification of Haj subsidy, no UCC, special favors for children of Allah etc. etc. What’s ironic is that people like you also claim to be flag-bearers of equality, while following the dictum “some animals are more equal than other animals” in practice

    Dude, why are you so intent on proving George Orwell right through your words? You do know that when Orwell wrote about such behavior, it was not because he admired it or praised it.

  16. Amit
    February 24, 2013 at 10:03 PM

    Vasu, BTW, what has Chomsky said about the plight of Kashmiri Pandits? Or the fact that numerous innocent lives in India have been lost to Islamic terrorist acts over the past few decades? Could you please post a few links where Chomsky has expressed some regret for the loss of such lives, and criticized the perpetrators just like he criticizes US foreign policy? I’m sure with his expansive knowledge and his caring attitude as a world citizen, he must’ve written at least something about the victims of Religion of Peace. Or, perhaps, he too, like you, believes that criticizing Islam is taboo?

  17. Amit
    February 24, 2013 at 9:57 PM

    “mostly secular struggle of Palestinians.”

    Vasu, what exactly do you mean by “mostly secular”? Have you read Hamas’s charter? Which part of the term “Muslim Brotherhood” is exactly “mostly secular”?

  18. Amit
    February 24, 2013 at 9:53 PM

    “I understand our first duty is to India. I am not convinced why what I said about Israel-Palestine issue is against dharma. Their history is there for all to see.”

    Vasu:
    Even after repeatedly asking you, you still haven’t answered why Palestinian issue is, or ought to be important to Indians. If I consider the fact that leftists – among non-Muslims – are the only ones who vocally shout at the top of their voices about Palestinian rights, while being apologists for Palestinian violence, then it becomes clear where you are finding that inspiration to say the same.

    What I find fascinating is that the Palestinians themselves wouldn’t care two hoots for these “kaffir” supporters (except to the extent that these “kaffirs” continue to support them morally, and more important, financially) – it seems like a “bizarro-world self-loathing irrational” version of some kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

    You also haven’t answered why Palestinians deserve more attention in your eyes than say, Tibetans, or Haitians, or Sudanese, or Nigerian people. There’s plenty of misery among these groups/regions too, so why do “world citizens with a conscience” like you talk only of Palestinians? Just because the leftists and Chomsky do so? In other words, you’re aping Chomsky and can’t think for yourself of your own priorities as an Indian. I mean, you must’ve read about the communal riots in WB and the bomb blast in Hyderabad – both of which claimed innocent lives.

  19. February 24, 2013 at 3:08 PM

    @raj,

    I don’t understand why wahabbism in another part of West Asis has anything to do with mostly secular struggle of Palestinians. There was a time when most of their leaders said, “It’s not about Islam or Allah. It’s about our rights to live in our ancient land. It’s about our right to just peace and to a nation.” Things changed slightly over-time due to many reasons, including an in-ordinate delay (of decades) to reach a just settlement. While it’s true that Arab citizens in Israeli green zone have a slightly better life, there’s discrimination against them. Israel’s own leaders acknowledged that they [the Arab citizens of Israel] are “the world’s quietest minority”.

    I am against those “temporary marriages”. It’s a law and order issue or one of UCC.

    Israel is not exactly a liberal/democratic state as it’s cranked up to be. Their govt. doesn’t tolerate criticism. Even a word of critiism against their policies by anyone invites you the label of “anti Semite”. It’s become so beaten a phrase, that in the US it’s already acknowledged that an “anti Semite” is not one who hates Jews, but one whom the Zionists hate. Their lobbies harassed Finkelstein and others. It’s too large a story to discuss here any more. My sympathies at present aren’t with them. I am a bit tired of this Israel-Palestine discussion.

  20. raj
    February 24, 2013 at 1:29 PM

    “Whatever they are, the Zionists are not gross liars…Yes, you can conclude that I recognize Jews can live there, but not Jews only to the exclusion of natives. ”

    Vasu, your terminology alone speaks volumes about your ideology. Israel remains a recognized country in the comity of nations. Unlike the UAE it is not a real “apartheid” state. Israeli arabs do have voting rights and full participation in that society–unlike, gee I don’t know, Saudi Arabia. I wonder, can you muster the courage to refer to Saudi as “that wahhabist entity” or that “islamist entity” as it is both those things. Most disgusting are Saudis religion-based law set blood money rates–guess which lives are the cheapest (hint: hindu men, and hindu women). This explains why old saudi men feel they can so freely fly to India and Pakistan for “temporary marriages” because that is precisely how they–and many other arabs –view subcontinentals. But of course, your “conscience” and “bleeding heart” prevents you from commenting on all of this. Only the Hinjews are on trial.

    Also, Vajpayee certainly wasn’t perfect–but his government was any day more tolerable than anything else we have available on the political spectrum.

    Kargil is a ridiculous comparison. Our next door neighbor is literally negotiating with a gun to its head. If you want to call its nuclear bluff, by all means why don’t you go next door and tackle hafeez sayed and dawood ibrahim.

    Second, Vajpayee politically outmaneuvered the pakistanis by not crossing the LOC–this ensured that musharraf and co. looked like the aggressors. India’s case is much, much better today than it was 20 years ago in the eyes of the “international community”. I personally don’t give a crap about the “international community” , but managing it at a political level remains a key aspect of geopolitics today. This means that a politician has to know when to disregard it–Pokhran–and keep it in mind–Kargil.

    Third, at least vajpayee did not equate kashmir with baluchistan at sharm al sheikh–case closed.

    ” How was he different from Nehru? ”

    Vajpayee didn’t sing bhai bhai and push for “plan 100″ to reduce the size of the Indian military while getting militarily mauled by a surprise attack. China respects only strength and comprehensive national power (not idealistic paeans). Analyze which PM did what and you’ll understand who managed China better. While I can’t say I agreed with Vajpayee, at least he got something (Sikkim recognition) unlike Nehru. BTW, if you want to talk intelligence failures, how about not realizing your neighbor built a major road through your territory before it’s too late–Chacha Nehru’s unique accomplishment in Aksai Chin.

    “How can I believe BJP-lead administrations wipe out terrorism or bring plural democracy and restore Sanatana Dharma as applicable to modern days?”

    You don’t have to believe that. All you need is the common sense and minimum brainpower needed to understand that the congress is anti-national, the SP/BSP available for the highest bidder, and the Commies hopeless confused by their anti-hindu impulses and treacherous legacy of tacit support to china in ’62. The simple leadership of a certain firangi barmaid without any qualifications whatsoever, should set of alarm bells in anyone with an iq over 50. Her cvc bill alone demonstrates what the agenda of this government is.

    The BJP is tolerable not because they’ll institute Ram Raj, but because they actually have people in there who give a crap about the country and civilization and pursue its interests, however haphazardly. There are scamsters in every party, but the sheer scale under the UPA is beyond precedent or comprehension. That alone should send any thinking man to the only party that can cobble together a non-congress formation.

  21. February 24, 2013 at 12:54 PM

    @raj,

    Most of what you say is fine. As regards the Israel issue, all parties want peace. It’s up to them if there will be a two-state soln. or united democratic Palestine. There are various peace voices. Israeli conduct in this regard is not encouraging at all. Whatever they are, the Zionists are not gross liars. Chomsky et al wrote much about the US policy and Israel. Don’t conclude that I am an syndicalist/anarchist like Chomsky. Yes, you can conclude that I recognize Jews can live there, but not Jews only to the exclusion of natives. No point in saying more about it which of course is not India’s priority.

    I feel sorry that Sanskrit is not getting official push. I am apolitical. Some reasons are here. Most BJP administrations haven’t worked any wonders. You know that Vajpayee told a visting Chinese delegation that India recognizes Tibet to be integral part of CHina? How was he different from Nehru? What have we gained in return for recognizing that?
    Vajpayee’s reaction to Kargill intrusion was entirely defensive and limited to LoC areas, not a comprehensive response. How can I believe BJP-lead administrations wipe out terrorism or bring plural democracy and restore Sanatana Dharma as applicable to modern days?

  22. raj
    February 24, 2013 at 10:57 AM

    tier 1 and tier 2 city* youth

  23. raj
    February 24, 2013 at 10:57 AM

    “I am not a leftist/Stalinist/pseduo secular. Don’t jump to conclusions. It’s not desire to be fashionable that motivates one to look at all sides of events”

    But that’s the point–you haven’t looked at all sides (deafening silence over historic jewish claims to Israel). The mere equating of kashmir with palestine demonstrates your priorities, despite your denials of leftism. Remember, the indian political spectrum is messed up. A center left democrat in America would be called a right wing extremist in India by amarshiam. So the mere possibility that you could lean congress/samajwadi is indicative of where you stand–bjp supporters certainly don’t care all that much about palestine, and are usually neutral or pro-israel.

    “Don’t use strong idioms/language.”

    By consistently demonstrating more concern for palestinians and kashmiri sunnis rather than pak or kashmiri hindus (especially Rinkle Kumari), I think we all know where you really stand.

    As for where I think India should go–I think it should be a modern, plural, democratic republic that honors its ancient civilization while respecting all traditions. I think while pop culture is a nice medium to connect people within the country’s borders and people across borders–it can’t educate our children. This present generation of India has all its priorities mixed up. In plain words, “New generation” India sux. They have access to all the technology and freedoms and education in the world, without any of the culture or morality or civilizational awareness that ensures they are not rootless and materialistic. Even their education is subpar–creating rote-memorizers instead of independent thinkers.

    Christopher Hitchens said globalization is only really interesting if we all bring something to the table. New generation India is Macaulay’s/Amir Khusro’s dream. Step 1 for India is plugging tier 1 and tier 2 youth back into their culture. That people wax nostalgic over Ghalib and not Kalidasa (Katju is fooling no one with is “secular Institute”) demonstrates the state of affairs today. Sandeep has done his part to expose people to our ancient high culture. But this also needs to permeate not only in the media but in our colleges.

    That’s my view of where India needs to go. Modernity without mores, and prosperity without purpose is a surefire recipe for oblivion. The need for balance in all things is utmost at this hour. People only respect those who respect themselves first. An India that knows how to prioritize the needs of its dharmic civilization and her peoples is one that’s guaranteed to get respect, even if it doesn’t get pats on the back from ghora sahib. Just look at the Chinese with their confucius institutes (our people runaway from sanskrit saying “we are secular” only english/urdu here). That’s something for all keep in mind.

  24. February 24, 2013 at 9:54 AM

    @raj,

    I am not a leftist/Stalinist/pseduo secular. Don’t jump to conclusions. It’s not desire to be fashionable that motivates one to look at all sides of events. You haven’t yet aired your views on what India should be like, what changes should be incorporated in statute books or changes in people’s mindset etc. I have no clue where you stand. I do not tar all people with the same brush, even if a person dwells more on nationalism and Hindu unity etc. I know there are various strands. I don’t easily jump to conclusions.

    Don’t use strong idioms/language.

  25. raj
    February 24, 2013 at 9:35 AM

    Vasu, any atrocity in the world is wrong–any. But at the same time, why expect surprise when people, whether it’s the israelis, or hindus, get fed up of being on the receiving end despite all attempts at patience, understanding, and accommodation.This is not a justification, but a recognition of cause and effect. If people A consistently choose to go outside the law and courts and commit atrocities–why blame people B if a few bad apples decide to go eye for an eye. Place the blame with the instigator.

    1. Israel-Palestine is far more complicated than you reductively think. The Jews have an ancient claim to the land from which they were forcibly evicted by the Romans. They have an original claim to it. They even have a superior claim to jerusalem given their holy temples. But leftists like you selectively choose to ignore that reality. Furthermore, Ehud Barak basically gave the Palestinians all but the right of return (aka demographic suicide) and the other half of judaism’s holiest city–that wasn’t good enough for Arafat. Instead, they viewed Sharon’s visit to temple mount (a sacred site to jews) as a “provocation” and used that to ignite their second intifada and unleash terror on israeli citizens. To pretend the palestinians are mere victims is the height ignorance. Instead of taking a fair deal, they chose the path of violence, and now whine about gaza.

    2. Charity starts at home. As I said above, any and all loss of life is a tragedy–but why distract us with the Iraq/Afghanistan wars–which don’t concern Indians–when Indians themselves are facing atrocities at home. It’s like being concerned about an attack on your neighbor’s house while an intruder is raping your sister. Westerners have the luxury of caring about the rest of the world,because they’re secure at home. Indians aren’t–that’s what’s so silly about your obsession with the palestinians or iraqis. It’s even more ridiculous when arabs so obviously treat our people like dirt (esp gulf arabs).

    So you can read this any way you want to, and masquerade as a man of conscience–but the reality is you’re not–you’re driven by fashionability. There are orders of magnitude in our obligations. Just as our obligations to our sister comes before that of a random woman, so too do our obligations to fellow citizens come before those to foreigners.

    “We desire for peace, a just and moral world and prosperity of all.”

    Peace does not mean cowardice. Even Gandhi said, if he had to choose between violence and cowardice, he would choose violence. His nonviolence was about courage and ensuring a Just order. That’s why there’s a saying: “A bad peace is worse than war”. All sides have to take into account the reasonable interests of others–that’s real justice. Neither the palestinians or kashmiri sunnis give a hoot about their counterparts. If you want peace, first their mentality needs to change.

    If you have the moral courage you posture to have, start your preaching there first–otherwise it’s just diversionary empty talk about “epics” and “conscience”. Hindus and Indians in general need to tend to their house first.

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